Shouldn't we suspect it first? like with other OU bans before, it may be manageable in the Inverse metagame. Ex: Aegislash,Greninja, Landorus-I etc...
Part of a post WECAMEASROMANS made in the OU suspect thread that directly applies here on how both Gothitelle and Wobbuffet are broken in Inverse (I changed a few things to better reflect the Inverse metagame):My realization is, if gothitelle is the main reason people are asking for the stag ban, it's unfair to wobbuffet, please include in arguments.
The inherent nature of Shadow Tag is uncompetitive because it eliminates the option of switching for every single Pokemon besides ghosts and other shadow tag users, which thus causes matchup to be the biggest factor in the game, ignoring skill. The comparison to other abilities that prevent switching is totally absurd because other abilities only target a few, select targets. While yes, you could say that Dugtrio, a Pokemon who gets Arena Trap, has the potential to trap literally all grounded Pokemon, you also have to question whether or not Dugtrio can kill/cripple these trapped Pokemon the same way Shadow Tag users can. Dugtrio isn't going to be trapping rougly 95% of what it can trap because its movepool is limited, to the extent where it really only has the capability to trap things that are slower and weak to its main STAB attack, such as Celebi. Magnet Pull, on the other hand, is nearly useless because Steel-types are extremely uncommon in the metagame in the first place.
Compare this with the two premier shadow tag users, and the amount of Pokemon that get trapped, it becomes clear that Shadow Tag is significantly more unhealthy than the previous abilities. First, with Gothitelle, the fact that it has access to trick, means it can permanently cripple any non mega Pokemon. If the trapped Pokemon is a defensive Pokemon, the combination of Shadow Tag and Trick enables it to lock them in one move and PP stall them extremely easily, and once they run out of PP and right before they die to struggle recoil, you can use trick again, then kill them and do the same thing to another defensive Pokemon. For offensive Pokemon, they are still crippled which enables the rest of your team to deal with it much more easily. This is the issue with using stallbreakers vs Gothitelle stall; the goth can just trap and trick your stallbreaker, which suddenly makes it not a stallbreaker anymore, and you have just lost the most essential Pokemon on your team for that game. speaking of stall itself, stall can adapt and play around other stallbreakers. Vs Goth, you literally can't play around it because you can't switch. the ease in which Gothitelle can slowly pick apart your walls one by one makes the goth user have a blatantly unfair advantage vs the opposing stall team and is uncompetitive because there is no counterplay available. Banning shadow tag wouldn't hurt stall, as I see a lot of users theorizing; it would actually help stall since now they don't have to be worried about their walls getting trapped and picked apart.
Idk why some people think that its just Gothitelle who is uncompetitive and completely ignore the trapping capabilities of Wobbuffet which is just as ridiculous. against the vast majority of offensive mons who attack on primarily one side of the attacking spectrum (think Porygon-Z, Lopunny, Raikou, Kyurem), Wobbuffet can easily trap and kill them. The way Gothitelle helps stall can be compared to how Wobbuffet assists offense, in that both shadow tag users pick apart the few key elements that give their team trouble so that their team can have a field day for the rest of the battle. You'd think having a Talonflame/Lopunny/LO Starmie would be enough to combat offense, but if Wobb traps them, you have just lost the most essential Pokemon on your team for that game. Vs defensive stall builds, the ease at which Wobbuffet can trap and weaken your walls with tickle so a pursuit user can finish them off at -6 defense is absurd. Encore + Shadow Tag is just an unfair combination just like how Trick + Shadow Tag is. Do you really think games like these are fair?
ive been using this, but with seed bomb over wood hammer mostly for survivability, and its very very good especially at breaking chanslugg. ice and grass are just such amazing typings. and i dont get why hes not used more.Wanted to bump this to share a set I've been using to break Chanslugg
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
The idea is to come in on Avalugg (it works well with U-turn, eg Raptor). Most people switch into Chansey expecting a special attack, so you SD on the switch, then KO. When they switch Avalugg in to tank the +2 Wood Hammer, you reveal Blizzard and then clean with X offensive mon :]
The speed EVs look counter-intuitive with a hindering nature, but I didn't want to cut into Obama's bulk. They're there to let you outspeed uninvested Chansey before mega-evolving, and uninvested Avalugg after, so that neither gets a chance to attack. Max attack is obvious, and the rest goes into HP for some bulk (you can invest this into SpA if you want)
0 SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 554-654 (140.9 - 166.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (vs physically defensive)
0 SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Avalugg: 338-402 (86 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (the much rare SpDef set still always gets KO'd after small chip, eg U-turn damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 577-679 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (75% chance after hail damage, and it will definitely dies if it switches in on SD)
Also has anyone got a good Tangrowth set? I've been meaning to experiment with it but I don't know what I want to run.
It's kinda cool, but it has 9 weaknesses (including Normal, Psychic, Poison, Bug and Grass, which are possibly the five best attacking types in the metagame) and struggles to switch in because of that. It also needs a scarf to do anything vs offense (you can run SG I guess but good luck finding setup opportunities). It does have great coverage and Espeed, which is excellent, as well as Explosion to bop Chansey (+1 252+ Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 561-660 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), though you struggle otherwise and can't break P2.I'd say Genesect, just for the variety of Attacks it has and the option of being both a Special and Physical Attacker. Even then, it's threatened by so many things.
I imagine it being decent due to bug being good offensively now too but one resistance is meh.It's kinda cool, but it has 9 weaknesses (including Normal, Psychic, Poison, Bug and Grass, which are possibly the five best attacking types in the metagame) and struggles to switch in because of that. It also needs a scarf to do anything vs offense (you can run SG I guess but good luck finding setup opportunities). It does have great coverage and Espeed, which is excellent, as well as Explosion to bop Chansey (+1 252+ Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 561-660 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), though you struggle otherwise and can't break P2.
Kinda like ice in other meta's then?One of Genesect's main appeals is having one of the strongest U-Turns in the tier. Unfortunately Dark, Psychic, and Grass are all good types in Inverse and resist it, while Steel, Poison, Ghost, Fairy, and Fire are non-existent-to-merely-uncommon, but Flying and Fighting are perfectly relevant and anyway U-Turn is massively buffed compared to Standard just because you don't have to deal with stuff like Skarmory being a staple wall and double resisting it. (Hoopa-Unbound is, in fact, the only Pokemon that doubly resists U-Turn and is strongly relevant to Inverse OU)
As a strong mixed attacker, it can also potentially punch through Chanslugg, giving it relevancy against stall-y teams. Most notably, it has Ice Beam.
It has myriad weaknesses, but if you're using it properly it mostly isn't getting hit, and fortunately Ice Shard, Quick Attack, and Extreme Speed are the only priority moves that actually do increased damage to it -and of course it has its own Extreme Speed to potentially win such duels anyway.
Durant, Lucario, and Sand Excadrill are also passable Steel types, able to outspeed -and outpriority, in Lucario's case- and potentially get in multiple KOs before they go down. Focus Sash Lucario can potentially get up a Swords Dance and sweep the entire enemy team, though it's pretty hard to get the turn of set-up without a Focus Sash, and you'll have to do something about Avalugg first. Excadrill is probably better off with Life Orb and just relying on its raw base power. Durant is basically if you want to do Banded Hustle, which is legitimately pretty terrifying -though again you'll need to do something about Avalugg.
There's other Steel types that can see use, such as Scizor, and oddly enough Jirachi (Spamming Zen Headbutt is obnoxiously effective, and Body Slam is much improved, with priority being Jirachi's main bane. It can even usually beat Avalugg 1v1), but Steel types aren't something you can slap en mass onto your team and expect things to go well. It helps that Steel is only resisted by Fairy, (Essentially unused) Rock, (Uncommon, though key Pokemon are admittedly relevant) and Ice. (Which is a big flaw, mind... but if you've got Ice coverage -which Jirachi, Lucario, and Genesect, among others, all do) As such, it's actually a fairly reliable attacking type.