Jeez, Making RMTs is Like Doing Crack

[Oyster]

I can't stooooooop!


Joking aside, the past few weeks have been a time of change for me, and I've been trying out a plethora of different teams, looking for one to be my standard fare. The more promising ones have ended up here as an RMT, but I'm probably making more than the moderators want me to. (This is my third within a month.) I know we're supposed to limit the amount of RMT threads we post, so I promise that after this one, I'll be done. (And now I REALLY sound like a crack addict.)


Anyways, this team is meant to build on the strong points of the last two teams I've used for a little while, those being Rain Semi-Stall and a balanced anti-meta team built around Breloom. I've noticed that Breloom benefits greatly from the rain, and one thing that my rain team needed the most was an answer to Volt-Turn, that being, you guessed it, Breloom. Therefore, the team building process began with Politoed as the rain inducer, and Breloom himself.

I decided that I wanted this to be an offensive team, so my next step was figuring out who was a suitable offensive partner for Breloom and could also benefit from the rain. After trying out a couple pokes in the spot, the obvious choice was Gyarados.

That being said, Gyarados is severely hampered by a weakness to Stealth Rock, and I needed a specially-based attacker who has good synergy with Gyarados and benefits in some way from rain. Admittedly, this one didn't take much thought. Who's a special attacker with access to Rapid Spin and something to gain from rain? Say it with me, kids: Starmie!

With a complete offensive core, I felt that it was time to move on to checks for my weaknesses, which were many at that point. Nasty Plot Celebi, SubCM Jirachi, you get the point. However, I recalled one pokemon which Btzz had reccomended for me on my previous rain team, a pokemon that not only covered all of my weaknesses exceptionally well, but turned the team around completely. That pokemon? Dragonite.

I didn't feel too bad about using another Stealth Rock-weak pokemon since I already had Starmie to spin, but I did notice that I was EXTREMELY reliant on winning the weather war in order to succeed. Also, I noticed that I had failed to add a Stealth Rocker of my own. So, I thought for a little while about who could solve those two problems for me, and the answer became clear pretty quickly: Dugtrio.

That setup was working great for a while, but I began noticing after a bit that I was having trouble gaining offensive momentum. So, even though I feel like a cheap bastard for doing it, I decided to try out a Volt-Turn core on this team. I've done my best to steer clear of Volt-Turn in the past, but its usefulness is undeniable, and its two main abusers, Scizor and Rotom-W, love the rain. And so, to make room for those two bozos, I had to cut Gyarados and Dragonite.

To better accomodate the new Volt-Turn core, some more changes had to be made, and so Starmie and Dugtrio had to go as well to be replaced by two pokes who have better synergy with the Volt-Turn core, namely Tornadus and Donphan. Donphan is a more reliable Stealth Rocker than Dugtrio was, and his access to Rapid Spin made Starmie unnececcary as well. So, Tornadus was put in as a pokemon who can function extremely well as a late-game sweeper once my Volt-Turn core has weakened the opposing team. It's access to U-Turn and priority Rain Dance are nice, too.

Let's take a closer look...

Politoed
Drizzle w/ Choice Specs
Modest: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power (Grass)

I decided to go with Specs Politoed due to the unmatched power that it provides, and it really benefits from the offensive momentum given to me by my Volt-Turn core. The given EV spread was reccomended by Bri, and gives Politoed maximum power and bulk while allowing him to outpace Tyranitar, Skarmory, and the like.

Breloom
Poison Heal w/ Toxic Orb
Careful: 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe
-Spore
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Seed Bomb

My favorite pokemon, and a cornerstone of most of the teams I've used. His Bulk Up set causes problems for many, many teams, and his annoyingness is only augumented by the removal of his fire weakness in rain. His utility is beginning to catch on, I'm noticing, and the use of Breloom as a check for teams like Volt-Turn is becoming more and more mainstream. (I feel like a hipster.) Anyways, awesome pokemon, love using him in rain, and he's great for countering the common threats in OU.

Scizor
Technician w/ Choice Band
Adamant: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Pursuit

Ugh. The #1 most used pokemon in OU. Just the fact that I have him here makes me feel cheap. I admit though, he's earned his spot. This guy is the very definition of the metagame, with so many teams being evaluated based on how well they can handle him. His Bullet Punch sends everything that isn't a dedicated physical wall headed for the hills, and U-Turn allows me to deal damage and switch when I predict a counter coming in. Superpower wrecks Tyranitar and Ferrothorn, and Pursuit allows Scizor to function well as a revenge killer.

Rotom-W
Levitate w/ Choice Scarf
Modest: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Thunder
-Hidden Power (Ice)

Scizor's butt buddy and numero dos of the infamous Volt-Turn core. The synergy between the two of them is amazing, as they both handle one another's counters perfectly. With a Choice Scarf, Rotom is able to outspeed threats such as Starmie and +1 DDnite and SubDD Gyarados, and nail them with HP Ice or 100% accurate Thunder. Hydro Pump is also massively powerful under the rain, especially since he now gets STAB from it.

Tornadus
Prankster w/ Life Orb
Naive: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Hurricane
-Hammer Arm
-Rain Dance
-U-Turn

This guy will typically function as my late-game sweeper, coming in to spam Hurricane once I feel like the opposing team is weakened enough. He is also my main check to grass and fighting types, and his access to U-Turn allows him to be a part of the Volt-Turning fun. Hammer Arm is mostly to hit Tyranitar, but it is also good for general coverage. Rain Dance allows Tornadus to serve as my back-up rain inducer in case Politoed goes down, and is particularly useful in taking care of opposing weather sweepers like Venusaur.

Donphan
Sturdy w/ Leftovers
Impish: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Shard
-Rapid Spin

Donphan plays the role of both the ever-important Stealth Rocker and the Rapid Spinner, as well as serving as an emergency check to dragon types with his priority Ice Shard. He has enough offensive power to act as a pivot as well, taking me off of the defensive and on the attack. His immunity to electric attacks is also appreciated by Politoed and Tornadus.

And so, there it is, my rain offense team. Rate away!

 

[RedthePokemonTrainer]

I know this isn't a rate or anything but is dugtrio bulky enough to get rocks off? Most aggressive rockers rely on predicting a switch to nab some rocks but obviously they won't be switching out on dugtrio :l. I mean, what's the success rate on you getting rocks down?

 

[pwnage77]

@Red: the purpose of the set is to set up rocks while your opponent hits you and bring you down to 1 hp then you abuse a 200 BP reversal.

@Oyster: anyway, here's the rate. I've noticed that with all the Electric weaknesses in your team, it is a bit reliant on Dugtrio. But the problem is, Dugtrio is frail even by NU standards. Once he is gone, Rotom-W can freely walk through this team. I suggest a specially defensive Gastrodon in place of Dragonite. It removes one Stealth Rock weak Pokemon while also immune to Electric moves and can take advantage of the rain to fire off boosted Scalds at something. And it can also take on Calm Mind Jirachi, a huge threat to Rain teams.

gastrodon

Gastrodon@Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Nature: Sassy / Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
~ Earthquake / Earth Power
~ Ice Beam / Scald
~ Toxic
~ Recover

 

[Oyster]

You're right about my weakness to electric attacks, but between Dugtrio's immunity and Breloom's resistance and special bulk, I think I can handle them well enough not to need Gastrodon. Besides, adding him over Dragonite would leave me with no good answer for grass types like Celebi and opposing Breloom.

Thanks for the rate, though.

 

[Oyster]

Major changes. I switched out Gyarados and Dragonite for a Volt-Turn core because I was having momentum issues. That probably means more adjustments are necessary for the rest of the team, but I'm a bit unsure about exactly what to change since I'm unfamiliar with Volt-Turn. Dugtrio may be on his way out, we'll see.

 

[GearFlow]

I see 2 major threats here, Bulky DD Dragonite and Volcarona, now both of these guys at +1 can really annoy your team, or just completely sweep it, so, you could use scarfed Rotom-W to check them, while also keeping Specs Toed, or you could just use a lefties Politoed with a more offensive EV spread if you don't want 3 choiced users.

 

[dice]

Hello!

I agree with how you think RMT'ing is fun since I've made a few too! Anyways, this is a really solid rain team! It reminds me of Stunt's Hail team (Abomasnow, Chandelure, Tentacruel, Mamoswine, Scizor, Rotom-W) in the way it was built! You seemed to have covered several of the threats in the BW OU Metagame, however I do see a few weaknesses I will attempt to improve. At a glance I see a pretty major weakness to opposing Starmie, especially in Rain. With Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Thunder it is going to be 2HKO'ing your whole team! Having Dugtrio isn't a very reliable way to take it out if it has Recover with Leftovers, and overall it is a massive pain for your team. Another weakness I see is to DD Dragonite since it gets free set up on Politoed locked into the wrong move, and it also gets set up on Dugtrio. SubBounce Gyara is on the same boat since with Subsitute it avoids Rotom-W's Volt Switch since it's so slow! An easy fix to this is to use a Scarf Rotom-W variant instead of your current set! I don’t see what on your team benefits from Burn support, so a Scarf Variant of Rotom-W fits your team very well! Here’s the set:

Takin’ out the laundry

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EV’s: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest
Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | Hidden Power Ice | Thunder / Trick

The choice between Thunder and trick is up to you, but I feel the Gyarados weakness is too severe to not use Thunder, and it always is fun spamming a 100% accurate move with 120 BP and a 30% chance of Paralysis!

Secondly, I don’t see what Dugtrio is doing for your team. Your team already gives other weather inducers a hard time with your powerful Water and Fighting attacks, and your momentum gained from your VoltTurn core, so I recommend replacing him with a [/B]Donphan. Donphan provides you a more reliably Rapid Spinner than Starmie (who will be replaced later in the rate) and also gives Ninetales a hard time switching in with his strong Earthquake, and he sets up Rocks more reliable. Being a strong Defensive Pivot gives your team more leeway versus hard physical threats like Terrakion and Landorus! Here’s the set;

donphaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Nature: Impish
Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Ice Shard | Rapid Spin

The EV’s allow you to 2HKO Haxorus with Earthquake and give you a good defensive wall/pivot. It also is a decent switch-in to Terrakion (bar Band) and it also gives you an Electric immunity which all Rain teams love to have.

Lastly, since Starmie is now not needed, and you need a good way to KO Tyranitar, and a fighting resist, why not try out a Tornadus > Starmie? Tornadus gives you a good Fighting Resist, a way to take out a threat to your current team, BU Loom, and it can also U-turn to give you momentum! Here’s the set:

[/B]

geniebro

Tornadus @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EV’s: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
U-Turn | Hurricane | Focus Blast | Rain Dance

Tornadus solves all your problems by being a back-up Rain Dancers with Prankster if it is ready to suicide, it hits troublesome fighting-types like Conkeldurr and Breloom especially, and it lures in Rotom-W and can 2HKO most varients! If Breloom ever dies, Rotom-W causes havoc but Tornadus lures and weakens it very well, which is beneficial for your team.

Thanks for sharing!

Edit: my compy sucks, disregard the random boldings o.o it won't go away D:

 

[Oyster]

I see 2 major threats here, Bulky DD Dragonite and Volcarona, now both of these guys at +1 can really annoy your team, or just completely sweep it, so, you could use scarfed Rotom-W to check them, while also keeping Specs Toed, or you could just use a lefties Politoed with a more offensive EV spread if you don't want 3 choiced users.

Scarf Rotom is probably the better choice, yeah. I'll try him out while keeping the Specs set on Politoed. Thanks!

Hello!

I agree with how you think RMT'ing is fun since I've made a few too! Anyways, this is a really solid rain team! It reminds me of Stunt's Hail team (Abomasnow, Chandelure, Tentacruel, Mamoswine, Scizor, Rotom-W) in the way it was built! You seemed to have covered several of the threats in the BW OU Metagame, however I do see a few weaknesses I will attempt to improve. At a glance I see a pretty major weakness to opposing Starmie, especially in Rain. With Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Thunder it is going to be 2HKO'ing your whole team! Having Dugtrio isn't a very reliable way to take it out if it has Recover with Leftovers, and overall it is a massive pain for your team. Another weakness I see is to DD Dragonite since it gets free set up on Politoed locked into the wrong move, and it also gets set up on Dugtrio. SubBounce Gyara is on the same boat since with Subsitute it avoids Rotom-W's Volt Switch since it's so slow! An easy fix to this is to use a Scarf Rotom-W variant instead of your current set! I don’t see what on your team benefits from Burn support, so a Scarf Variant of Rotom-W fits your team very well! Here’s the set:

Takin’ out the laundry

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EV’s: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest
Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | Hidden Power Ice | Thunder / Trick

The choice between Thunder and trick is up to you, but I feel the Gyarados weakness is too severe to not use Thunder, and it always is fun spamming a 100% accurate move with 120 BP and a 30% chance of Paralysis!

Secondly, I don’t see what Dugtrio is doing for your team. Your team already gives other weather inducers a hard time with your powerful Water and Fighting attacks, and your momentum gained from your VoltTurn core, so I recommend replacing him with a [/B]Donphan. Donphan provides you a more reliably Rapid Spinner than Starmie (who will be replaced later in the rate) and also gives Ninetales a hard time switching in with his strong Earthquake, and he sets up Rocks more reliable. Being a strong Defensive Pivot gives your team more leeway versus hard physical threats like Terrakion and Landorus! Here’s the set;

donphaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Nature: Impish
Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Ice Shard | Rapid Spin

The EV’s allow you to 2HKO Haxorus with Earthquake and give you a good defensive wall/pivot. It also is a decent switch-in to Terrakion (bar Band) and it also gives you an Electric immunity which all Rain teams love to have.

Lastly, since Starmie is now not needed, and you need a good way to KO Tyranitar, and a fighting resist, why not try out a Tornadus > Starmie? Tornadus gives you a good Fighting Resist, a way to take out a threat to your current team, BU Loom, and it can also U-turn to give you momentum! Here’s the set:

[/B]

geniebro

Tornadus @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EV’s: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
U-Turn | Hurricane | Focus Blast | Rain Dance

Tornadus solves all your problems by being a back-up Rain Dancers with Prankster if it is ready to suicide, it hits troublesome fighting-types like Conkeldurr and Breloom especially, and it lures in Rotom-W and can 2HKO most varients! If Breloom ever dies, Rotom-W causes havoc but Tornadus lures and weakens it very well, which is beneficial for your team.

Thanks for sharing!

Edit: my compy sucks, disregard the random boldings o.o it won't go away D:

Wow... That's a really thorough rate. Thanks, Bri! All of those changes sound like great ideas, except I think I'll go with Timid over Modest on Rotom, and I'd rather have Life Orb on Tornadus so I'm not too easy to set up on and he can actually make use of Rain Dance. I appreciate the help!

 

[dice]

Timid on Rotom-W isn't necessary, Modest still outspeeds DDNite and Starmie and it also has moar powahhhhh. I would say Focus Blast > Tailwind to KO Tyrantiar, or over Rain Dance, but I always like having a back-up rain setter.

A small nitpick I would like to make it using the EV's of 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe on Toed. It speed creeps other Skarm, Ttar, Jelli, etc, and it allows you to tank hits as well as give them out.

How are the new changes working, anyways?

 

[Oyster]

I really like that EV spred on Politoed. It's much more similiar to the spread I was running before, but with just enough speed to outrun cetain threats. I think I'll use it. :)

If Modest outspeeds Starmie, then yeah, I'll use it over Timid. My impression was that it would be too slow, but I guess not.

I freaking love Tailwind right now, so I don't really want to replace it. I thought that perhaps since I already had Focus Blast on Politoed, Drain Punch on Breloom, and Superpower on Scizor, I was set on fighting-type attacks. If you really think I need a way for Tornadus to beat Tyranitar, though, I'll use Hammer Arm, since I prefer it's accuracy over Focus Blast, and the speed drop isn't really an issue since this is a hit-and-run style team. I think I'll replace Rain Dance instead of Tailwind, since I see Tailwind being useful in a wider variety of situatons, plus I have enough checks to the other weather starters to win the weather wars easily. But, if I find myself needing a back-up Rain inducer, I can always switch back. I'll just have to test things out.

As far as how the team in general has been doing, I'm really loving how aggressively I'm able to play. The synergy is like nothing I've ever used before, too. Volt-Turn is still a new strategy to me, but it's not that hard to get the hang of. The suggestions you made have really paid off. Tornadus is a fantastic late-game sweeper, and Donphan is so much more reliable than Dugtrio was. Thanks again!

 

[BTzz]

Hi, nice team. Sun teams look pretty tough to deal with for this team at the momment, as you lack a solid switch into strong Fire- and Grass-type attacks. Growth Tangrowth can't even be taken down by Scizor's Bullet Punch + Donphan's Ice Shard if it has Giga Drain (which it usually does). Using a Latios over Tornadus will greatly help with sun, as it walls a lot of common sun sweepers, while Heatran can be taken down by Surf. Latios acts as a wallbreaker like Tornadus, as well as a check to Virizion and BU Breloom (the latter walls you VoltTurn core) with STAB Psyshock. Using an Expert Belt bluffs a Choice item, while maintianing Latios' HP for taking walling sun sweepers.

If you feel like the Latios > Tornadus change leaves you a bit weak to Tyranitar, you could use 56 Speed EVs out of HP on Donphan so you can outspeed Sassy Tyranitar and hit them with Earthquake. Lastly, I suggest using Trick over Hidden Power Ice on Rotom-W. Trick allows Rotom to cripple special walls such as Blissey and Latias, meaning they won't be able to retaliate while Politoed and Latios blast away at them. Hidden Power Ice is expendable, as Thunder still hits Dnite and Mence hard, and you have many ways to hit opposing dragons including Scizor, Donphan, Politoed and Latios. Just remeber to save Rotom's Scarf until it revenge kills any dangerous set up sweepers!

Latios | Levitate | Expert Belt
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Draco Meteor | Surf | Psyshock | Recover

Hope this helps!

 

[Oyster]

I agree completely about changing up HP Ice for Trick on Rotom, and changing Donphan's EVs is a good idea if I start feeling weak to TTar, but I'm... less sure about Latios. He's a great poke for sure, and I definitely see your point about my team being weak to powerful grass and fire attacks, but I don't like how limited his shelf life is with the recoil from Draco Meteor. I'd prefer something that can really stay in there and clean up teams that have been weakened by my Volt-Turners. How would you feel about me using a similar poke that doesn't have that disadvantage, such as rain Volcarona sporting Quiver Dance, Hurricane, Bug Buzz, and Fire Blast, or Mixed Rain Dragonite running Hurricane, Aqua Tail, ExtremeSpeed, and Roost?

 

[dice]

I don't agree with the HP Ice change. After Multiscale is broken Thunder is only a 2HKO on Dragonite while HP Ice OHKO's.

 

[Oyster]

That's true, but BTzz is also right in saying that I have lots of potential checks to dragons, Donphan and Scizor especially. I think at this point I'll just have to start testing different sets, because some decisions (like this one) are too hard to make from just theorymonning.

Also, I now have no idea who I want to put in that 5th team slot, since I have four viable options with their own sets of strengths and weaknesses:

Tornadus is a powerful wallbreaker, late-game sweeper, and checks grass and fighting types, as well as supporting the team with Tailwind. However, he is too frail to take on some threats that are faster than he is.

Latios has good speed, as well as the bulk to take on the threats that Tornadus couldn't, while still performing the role of wallbreaker and check to grass and fighting types. However, the recoil from Draco Meteor prevents him from functioning well as a late-game sweeper, since I'll eventually have to switch out, giving the opponent breathing room that I do not want them to have.

Dragonite has the bulk, power and coverage to wallbreak, take on the likes of Breloom, Virizion, and Terrakion, and handle opposing sweepers like Venusaur, but he doesn't have the speed to really clean up the opposing team. This could be remedied somewhat by ExtremeSpeed, but it's not a perfect solution.

Volcarona can handle opposing sweepers exceptionally well, especially sun sweepers, and can clean up the opposing team easily after a Quiver Dance. It can also handle Breloom and Virizion with Hurricane, but it does not have the coverage to wallbreak or the physical bulk to take on opposing fighting types.

Decisions, decisions. I'll have to try all of these guys out individually.

 

[Oyster]

Updating with a poll. The decision on who I put into the 5th slot will ultimately be up to who tests the best, but I still want to see what other people's opinions are.