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Jirachi (Superachi!)

If by beat you mean "fail to OHKO at +1, get OHKOed in return (scarf) or 2HKOed and outsped (shuca)", then yes. But without prior damage, they're not beating Leftovers variants, which is the main slash after all.
 
well hp fire at the very least needs a slash imo, Hp Ground + tbolt seems cool but if your running GK Hp Ground wont be any good with that since your settup bait for skarmory and fortress. it seems like the user has a choice of either HP Ground + Tbolt or Hp fire and GK
 
Well, the thing is, if Jirachi has Calm Mind, the first thing to think is: why would Skarmory or Forretress switch into this since it can 2HKO or OHKO them at will with boosted Thunderbolt? Most common Jirachi variants run Thunderbolt simply for the sake of coverage, so unless Jirachi has revealed the whole Superachi set to the opponent, Skarmory and Forretress won't be substantial problems due to statistical instinct (SubCM and WishCM). Of course, HP Fire's always a satisfactory surprise for Forretress, and does decent damage to Skarmory, but since the priority is to run HP Ground for Heatran, Superachi will need a whole new set of teammates and counters.
 
that still doesnt change the fact that superachi will be unable to sweep the opposing team should they have a Skarmory or Fortress. its not like hp fire is limited to that anyways, other advantages it has is being able to OHKO Scizor (in comparison to the neutral damage from hp ground and this is big due to no defensive investment and lack of recovery move), hitting levitate bronzong (a pokemon ive been seeing a good amount of recently) and Celebi (huge). all im saying is that hp fire deserves a slash, which it most certainly does.
 
I have tried a LOT of Calm Mind Jirachi variants over the past few months, and I have to say that HP Ground has proven to be the most effective version. I personally prefer CM, Psychic, Tbolt, HP Ground. With that set, you're losing to Celebi (rarely seen lately), and kind-of Swampert, who you still beat with slight prior damage. On the other hand, you're beating Heatran (if you know they have Scarf, you can just HP Ground the switch ?_?) and Skarmory, and Forretress isn't doing much back to you (I haven't run into many packing EQ, and even when they do, +1 max SpA Tbolt does a lot). Why do you need to OHKO Scizor, who even with CB can't OHKO you back? People still consider Heatran to be basically the safest Jirachi switch-in in the entire game, as you initially can't tell if it's physical or special, so IMO it's the easiest way of baiting and KOing Heatran, who is one of the only checks to most Calm Mind Jirachis. HP Ground should be the main slash. Lets also not forget the importance of max spe on a base 100 (though admittedly, it's less necessary with Mence gone), because getting a speed tie against things like CB Flygon, Mixed Jirachi, offensive Zapdos, etc. is very important, and something you completely lose out on should you opt for HP Fire.
 
if scizor lands a CB uturn something weaker can pick it off. its minor but its a possible situation is what i was getting at. yea i agree hp ground should be the main option, i never questioned that from the start, just that fire gets a slash. Fire has a couple notable stuff that help jirachi out. but if u guys dont think its slash worthy i cant see why it wouldnt have atleast a AC mention.
 
Heatran is one of those pokemon you don't need to bait into killing. Swampert, Skarmory, and Celebi are. Heatran has 100% safe switch ins. Heatran is susceptible to all forms of residual damage and commonly lacks recovery. Heatran generally isn't a dick for the rest of your team to kill. It makes more sense to lure and kill a defensive pokemon than an offensive pokemon. Additionally, pairing Jirachi with <insert Water Pokemon or Snorlax> will switch into Heatran all day and frustrate him to the point of explosion or surcumming to residual damage.

Psychic / Grass Knot / HP Fire and Life Orb is the most effective way to play Superachi. Lets not underestimate the importance of Life Orb either. Jirachi is a very good user of it since its *ahem* not weak to Sandstorm or the two most common priority moves, Bullet Punch and Extremespeed. 30% boost? Why wouldn't you take it?

HP Ground should be the main slash. Lets also not forget the importance of max spe on a base 100 (though admittedly, it's less necessary with Mence gone), because getting a speed tie against things like CB Flygon, Mixed Jirachi, offensive Zapdos, etc. is very important, and something you completely lose out on should you opt for HP Fire.
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Speed Tie? Flygon is Scarf what 95 percent of the time? Mixed and Sub-TWave Jirachi is going to be a toss up weather you tie them or not (both 2HKO each other, and against Sub-Twave your screwed anyway), and Offensive Zapdos will be OHKOed at +1 by Psychic after SR if you actually use Life Orb like I suggested. Lets not forget 2 of those 3 mentioned pokemon are rare as hell.
 
Philip7086 said:
I have tried a LOT of Calm Mind Jirachi variants over the past few months, and I have to say that HP Ground has proven to be the most effective version. I personally prefer CM, Psychic, Tbolt, HP Ground. With that set, you're losing to Celebi (rarely seen lately), and kind-of Swampert, who you still beat with slight prior damage. On the other hand, you're beating Heatran (if you know they have Scarf, you can just HP Ground the switch ?_?) and Skarmory, and Forretress isn't doing much back to you (I haven't run into many packing EQ, and even when they do, +1 max SpA Tbolt does a lot). Why do you need to OHKO Scizor, who even with CB can't OHKO you back? People still consider Heatran to be basically the safest Jirachi switch-in in the entire game, as you initially can't tell if it's physical or special, so IMO it's the easiest way of baiting and KOing Heatran, who is one of the only checks to most Calm Mind Jirachis. HP Ground should be the main slash. Lets also not forget the importance of max spe on a base 100 (though admittedly, it's less necessary with Mence gone), because getting a speed tie against things like CB Flygon, Mixed Jirachi, offensive Zapdos, etc. is very important, and something you completely lose out on should you opt for HP Fire.
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I don't know maybe this is a playstyle clash but I've used every form of Superachi over the past 2 months (as we all know i'm in love with it...i mean i am the guy who fucking invented the set so....) and from what I've experienced when I'm sitting there with HP Ground/Tbolt there are so many times I'm saying fuck I wish i had HP Fire or Grass Knot because that'd help me out tremendously. While using gk/hp fire I have never gone shit I wish I had HP Ground or Tbolt. Heatran is the easiest number one most used mon to ever switch into, there is no doubt about that. Jirachi shouldn't be looking to try to lure it in and have a 50/50 to beat it. Jirachi should be looking to sweep after you force your opponent to get rid of Heatran. That's how this set sweeps best.

Also I've never tried Life Orb so I have no comment on that.
 
I tried both HP Ground and HP Fire (with Life Orb and Lefties), and recently have preferred HP Ground. Really, it's a tossup. HP Fire variants can sweep once Heatran is gone, but HP Ground variants are the best Heatran lure that I've ever used, and they can easily sweep if Skarmory (and Bronzong, arghl) is removed. Oh, also Celebi.

The issue I've found with HP Fire is that it doesn't deal enough damage to stuff like Bronzong, Skarmory, Celebi, and Magnezone, which are some of the reasons to run HP Fire anyway. Zong will Earthquake you, Skarm will Whirlwind you (and can't beat lastmon jirachi), Magnezone deals legit damage, and Celebi can Thunder Wave you, crippling you no matter what you run.

It's a tossup, and really depends on what you want to use Jirachi for, as well as what your team needs.
 
I don't get why you guys keep mentioning gk/hp ground on superachi, thats terrible coverage anyways. Tbolt / hpground / psychic is what I thought was being discussed. I can see where Jabba is coming from and I know he has a ton of experience with superachi so I can agree that gk/hp fire/psychic should get a mention as well.

Regardless of what the lord of OU RL slayer of the ladder nubs and hero of smogon tournaments has to say, 100 base speed is still important in the OU metagame and losing max speed with HP fire is a lot of things people don't want to do
 
Alright I would see them being concurrent slashes as long as they're mentioned as equals that have different goals in the set comments. They are really both quite good depending on what you want to do and are at the very least equally viable.

okay i've talked to equally intelligent people as myself and from what we've talked about it's clear that the set ON SITE is perfect as is besides possibly 2 changes. 1. Possibly LO but i trust RL would know if that works so that should probably be slashed and 2. tbolt shouldn't be slashed 4th slot it should be slashed next to gk. Maybe a couple line throw in for those changes but the set that's currently up is perfect. Talk about trying to change something that works fine...overkill you guys....overkill


okay more drunk rambling i've been talking to SDS and it's kind of clear that superachi can do 2 things: lure heatran or sweep when heatran dies. they are 2 equally viable strategies and both deserve concurrent slashes in the set.
 
If this is done and changes the analysis moderately/extensively, then I think a third GP check is in order just in case.
 
I'd like to ask that HP Fire be added back onto the set, as a concurrent slash in the fourth slot. I'm not exactly sure why it was removed, considering how much better HP Fire sweeps than HP Ground. There's the increased relevance of Grass-types in OU, especially Celebi, which completely walks all over this set as is. HP Ground also gets massacred by Scizor, Forretress, Bronzong, and a whole lot of other stuff that you simply cannot touch with HP Ground variants.

I'd also like it to be noted that HP Ground is best used with Thunderbolt, while HP Fire is best used with Grass Knot.
 
Um, woah. Everybody's getting a personality shift now on this moveslot gig. Seriously, Jirachi can have trouble with one or two things provided it has the "right" and "wrong" moves.

You know, for the sake of convenience, I suggest showing all the options in the forms of slashes, and explain that Jirachi will have to deal with a few if it snoozes up on Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, whatever. The available options are there, and it all depends on what your team needs, not what Jirachi itself needs. If Jirachi can't handle somethings, the most plausible thing to do is: get a teammate, and suggest it.
 
I can see the appeal of having Hidden Power Fire slashed next to HP Ground. In my opinion, it's worth mentioning it as the second option for the last moveslot.
 
jumpluff communicated me that she will be very busy in the next few weeks, and that is willing to give this analysis to another writer in order to finish what needs to be finished in a timely manner.

I'm locking the thread, though I'm going to leave it here for some time. I would like this analysis to be taken by a person who has experience with this Jirachi set. If that person sees this thread, feel free to PM me and I'll make the proper arrangements.

Edit: assigned. Thanks.
 
This was already fully QC'd and GP'd, but there was some controversy in the set after the fact. The writing is also exceptional, so I would be remiss to let it waste in the archives without Pluff getting the credit.

In order to not waste all of the valuable time put into it, I will be adding HPFire back to the fourth slot and adding discussion of it back in myself. Then, once that is done, I'll be GPing the whole thing and uploading it in one fell swoop. (I may actually wait for Zystral's Jirachi (Update) to be done before uploading this)

Be forewarned that I haven't necessarily finished my work on the stuff below this line, yet.

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[SET]
name: Superachi! (Offensive Calm Mind)
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
nature: Timid
item: Leftovers
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Superachi functions as both a sweeper and an excellent lure that baits and KOes Calm Mind Jirachi's usual checks. The likes of Heatran, Swampert, and Tyranitar are taken by surprise and KOed by the respective super effective move, leaving Jirachi free to tear down the rest of the team.</p>

<p>Psychic is Jirachi's standard STAB move and, despite not having good coverage by itself, hits most Pokemon reasonably hard. Fortunately, this is where the other moves come in. Thunderbolt complements Psychic's coverage and skewers Skarmory and bulky Water-types alike. However, depending on preference and your team's needs, you can use Grass Knot to take out Swampert in one shot, as well as hit Tyranitar (who isn't afraid of even Hidden Power Ground) and Hippowdon harder. The fourth move is Hidden Power Ground because it OHKOes Calm Mind Jirachi's number one counter, Heatran, after one Calm Mind. It also hits Magnezone and grounded Steel-types fairly hard. Hidden Power Ground has great utility and is always the better option with Thunderbolt, but when using Grass Knot, Hidden Power Fire becomes a very alluring option. Hidden Power Fire, despite lowering Jirachi's Speed IV by 1, hits many notable threats for major damage, including Scizor, Forretress, Celebi, and Shaymin.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are straightforward offensive EVs, with a Timid nature and 252 Speed EVs to tie with the numerous other base 100 Speed Pokemon in OU and outspeed Timid Roserade and Jolly Lucario. Investing 252 Special Attack EVs maximizes Jirachi's offensive potential, letting it hit with surprising force. Giving Leftovers Jirachi Leftovers helps keep it alive, and is preferable to Life Orb, which detracts from Jirachi's excellent natural bulk. Most Calm Mind Jirachi carry Leftovers as well, which helps you to further the illusion. If you prefer the power boost and are willing to sacrifice some of Jirachi's longevity, though, you can use Life Orb.</p>

<p>While effective as a stand-alone sweeper, this set's real value lies in what it can do for its team. Superachi does a fantastic job of luring and KOing prominent OU threats like Heatran if running Hidden Power Ground, which many Pokemon can benefit from. Electric-types, such as Rotom-A and Zapdos, appreciate this the most, as do Grass-types with Heatran removed and Tyranitar with Swampert gone. To support Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Jirachi's powerful Psychic can eliminate Fighting-types while Grass Knot can remove Swampert; provided Tyranitar carries Shuca Berry or you have a Flygon check, the combination is particularly deadly. Make sure to pack a Stealth Rock user such as Heatran, since Jirachi needs Stealth Rock to score some KOs.</p>

<p>One thing the user has to take into consideration is that Shuca Heatran is a very common lead, and is even seen outside of the lead slot. You can specialize and add Occa Berry for this if you really need to, though it isn't recommended; also note that the lack of Leftovers, which are normally on Calm Mind Jirachi, may well alert your opponent to the fact that you're running Superachi. Another alternative is Shuca Berry for Flygon, Gliscor, Tyranitar, and Dragonite. For example, you can do a lot of damage to Flygon with Psychic, then switch to a Flying-type of your own, such as Dragonite with ExtremeSpeed, to take the next Earthquake. Flygon is forced to switch if it has a Choice Scarf, letting you snatch a Dragon Dance, while ExtremeSpeed finishes it off should it come back in.</p>

<p>This set is walled by Blissey and Snorlax, so Explosion Heatran, Tyranitar, or any strong physical attacker is recommended as a companion. This set has trouble with Celebi if running Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ground, so packing Heatran on your team may be worthwhile as well. Other options for crippling these walls are Toxic Spikes and Trick. Forretress and Roserade are good Toxic Spikes users, though they share Jirachi's weakness to Fire-type attacks. Starmie is a good choice for a Trick user; the threat of Hydro Pump wards off typical Pursuit users, and because Starmie is rarely seen with Trick, unsuspecting Blissey are easily crippled. It also beats Infernape, which outspeeds Superachi and has a super effective STAB.</p>
 
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