Pokémon Kangaskhan

[Mattman324]

3. Special Attacker?

This one no has considered but it's worth pointing out MKhan has 60 base SpA, which, when parental bond comes into play... It's around 100 base SpA, which with MKhan's good bulk and decent typing... it means he's got potential as a gimicky surprise SpA'er. With the right weather, Thunder, Blizzard and Solarbeam are especially surprising options, but I'd envision a set like...

Flamethrower / Fire Blast
Shadowball
Surf / Thunderbolt / Icebeam
Uproar

I actually DID think of that, but I dismissed it as a gimmick. It's useful for killing counters to Kangaskhan, but nothing more.

 

[tentaintcool]

In terms of EV spreads what's the general consensus around here? At first I thought straight up 252 atk / 252 spd/ 4 hp but with how bulky this thing is maybe more hp investment is worthwhile, say something like 200 hp / 52 atk / 252 spd.. Any thoughts?

 

[Patrick1088]

I think that mega kang will definitely be good. Also mega gengar can be played around with just like conkeldurr in gen v vs. Subdisable gengar. I think the 2 main sets are going to be subsplit and subdisable on megagengar. Most skilled playets will see these as the most viable and most players will realize once gengar subs up its either disable or split. Wbat you do is fake out/mach punch in the case of conkeldurr and that move is disabled allowing you to spam sucker punch or payback in conks case. It takes predictiom to beat and that fb will almost cleanly ohko. But you can play mind games with kang which is what i like. You dont have to mega evo when you fake out.

 

[Cogg]

It doesn't matter how much weaker the second attack is; base attack 125 is no joke, no matter how much weaker it gets. This thing breaks substitutes, essentially has a better version of Serene Grace if secondary effects work twice, and even if the two attacks don't kill whatever unfortunate creature experiences the onslaught, Sucker Punch. TWICE.

I think that mega kang will definitely be good. Also mega gengar can be played around with just like conkeldurr in gen v vs. Subdisable gengar. I think the 2 main sets are going to be subsplit and subdisable on megagengar. Most skilled playets will see these as the most viable and most players will realize once gengar subs up its either disable or split. Wbat you do is fake out/mach punch in the case of conkeldurr and that move is disabled allowing you to spam sucker punch or payback in conks case. It takes predictiom to beat and that fb will almost cleanly ohko. But you can play mind games with kang which is what i like. You dont have to mega evo when you fake out.

I agree, but I think (*edit:) Mega Gengar is going to be a very common revenge killer as well. Base 170 special attack and Shadow Tag?? Wow.

 

[azureleaf17]

Has anyone looked at Mud-Slap at all? -2 Accuracy is a LOT, and really hurts its counters, which rely on Fighting moves like Focus Blast and Hi Jump Kick to take it out. Unfortunately not available yet (HGSS move tutor), but probably a potent force.

The problems with Mud-Slap as a very poor move don't really change. It's weaker than water, it's not very reliable because the opponent can still hit through it, and the opponent can just switch out. Kanga's counters are usually faster than it anyway, but she's much better off just flat-out smashing her switch-ins with a powerful attack anyway.

 

[Bunnyslayerz]

BulkySub

Kangaskhan w/ Kangaskhanite
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/ 40 Spd/ 212 HP
Scrappy Ability (Parental Bond - Mega)

- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Body Slam

It seems that the main reason people are using Fake Out is that it lowers their opponents HP slightly, making it easier to revenge kill. Wouldn't it be easier to just use substitute instead of Fake Out? If I am switching in Kang then I am probably going to have the advantage (otherwise, why would I switch him in) and then most people will Fake Out the next turn, but instead, why not Sub?. Anticipating they switch out, I substitute and then I am able to get off a power up punch and then either SP or BS. Talk about packing a lot of power. Im not sure how many speed EV's to put in quite yet (suggestions please) but it wont be much with this set.

 

[SinfulPanda69]

Double hit: 35 base power normal move that hits twice. If the parental bond attack is 2/3 power then this move is effectively 116.67 base power attack spread over 4 hits. Interesting but I don't really see a use.

Chip Away: 70 (116.67) Base power normal move that ignores stat boosts. Useful for something that used bulk up like a conkuldurr at middling HP

Rock Tomb: 50 (83.33) Base power rock move that lowers targets speed. It is 80% accurate. You can sharply lower the speed of something like a gengar or scarf jirachi that switches in then fire off a crunch or earthquake.

Bulldoze: Just like Rock Tomb but it is perfectly accurate, is ground type, and is 60 (100) Base power.

Focus Punch: 150 (250) base power fighting move to be used after a substitute

Seismic Toss: Guaranteed 166.67 damage against anything not a ghost.


Utility Khan
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
??? HP / 252 Atk / ??? Speed
Adamant
-Fake Out
-Bulldoze/Rock Tomb
-Drain Punch/Dragontail/CircleThrow/...Coverage move?
-Ice Punch/Thunderpunch/Crunch/Return

Fake out gets you a megaevolution without taking a hit. Bulldoze and rocktomb can slow down potential switch ins like gengar (megagengar also doesnt have levitate), jirachi, celebi, gyarados, salamence, lati@s, and landorus. Fire away with your coverage move of choice. Drain punch is for longevity but to be honest i dont think many rock types or steel types will be taking you on, so switching it to another coverage move could work well. Speed Evs are completely meta and for base 100s it's really tough to decide.

Rock Slide flinch hax too.

 

[Mattman324]

It doesn't matter how much weaker the second attack is; base attack 125 is no joke, no matter how much weaker it gets. This thing breaks substitutes, essentially has a better version of Serene Grace if secondary effects work twice, and even if the two attacks don't kill whatever unfortunate creature experiences the onslaught, Sucker Punch. TWICE.

It isn't EXACTLY better than two Serene Grace procs: a Jirachi using Zen Headbutt flinches 60% of the time while a Kangaskhan would only get 51%. Still pretty danged good, though. Give this guy para/Sticky Web support and he can finish teams, he's probably the best cleaner in the game (not just for attacking power and effect percentages, but also in his good bulk)

 

[The Great Gastly]

This thing is looking grand for my offensive team.

- It's an excellent revenge killer / emergency check with Double Fake Out + Double Sucker Punch.
- Essentially has Swords Dance that does fighting-type damage.
- Can use an inferior, but still great, Serene Grace-ish effect with certain moves.
- Finally, it has some raw power in STAB Double Double-Edge (lol)

Definitely has usurped Blastoise as my favorite Mega Evolution. :]

I'm thinking about sticking with the following... am I missing out on anything with the set below?

Adamant / Jolly nature -- Max Atk / Max Spe
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge / Return

 

[YataGarasu]

Odd thing is I did some damage calcs, the other day of many top OU Pokemon within Gen V, and any that don't resist Return, do not want to switch into Kangaskahn (as a Mega.) I'm starting to get giddy with Kangaskahn and parental bond.
:)

 

[shack]

Why not just run Sucker Punch over Fake Out if you're worried about Gengar FB you? It also gives you the ghost coverage so you can use the other 3 slots for the damage (EQ, Return, etc.) or fun stuff like Power Up Punch, Mud Slap, Rock Slide, Sub, etc.?

 

[Slheyas]

Opinions on Crush Claw?

It's definitely less powerful than Return, but that 50% Defense reduction chance on each hit is really interesting.

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

I'd rather use return for the sheer power involved or body slam for the doubled chance of a para.

 

[Thorhammer]

Hmm. After Parental Bond and before STAB, Return hits as a 153 BP move. Crush Claw has a 50% chance of dropping enemy Def on the first hit; in that case, it hits as a (75+75*0.5*1.5)=131.25 BP move, or a 112.5 BP move if not. Decent drop in power either way, but you've got an overall 75% chance of dropping their Def at least one stage for the next hit and a 25% chance of dropping it two stages. Dropping enemy Def isn't too common of a strategy, but I could see it being useful to muscle past specific checks.

Still, Power-Up Punch strikes me as a far more reliable and more permanent method of increasing damage done, despite its lower power. Let's see - over the course of two turns, using Power-Up Punch followed by Return on a neutral target, Kangaskhan will hit for the equivalent of 529 BP. With two consecutive Crush Claws, failing all of the first three Def drops (1/8 chance) means you'd hit for the equivalent of 337.5 BP, and succeeding on all three means you'd hit for the equivalent of (1.5*(75+75*0.5*1.5+75*2+75*0.5*2.5))=562.5 BP. That's really not a great improvement... If you miss either of the first two drops, which you will 75% of the time, you'll do less damage overall, and on average, you'll give them as big of a Def drop as you'd get an Atk gain by using Power-Up Punch, except the Atk gain is much more useful.

You do get to essentially combine two moves into one moveslot by using Crush Claw, but it really doesn't strike me as an improvement. Power-Up Punch is too good.

But seeing as mega gengar is faster, can mega kangaskan survive a single focus blast to guarantee you can start mud slapping his accuracy away? Maybe someone should calc it?

An uninvested Mega Kangaskhan takes 353 damage minimum from Modest Mega Gengar's Focus Blast and has 351 HP. So no.

 

[PJ_Graphix]

So unless you invest in hp or sp.def don't try mud slapping a mega gengar... Noted lol. Sucker punch is your only hope it seems as you could die before your earthquake hits as well. This is of course assuming no hp or so def investment on mega kangaskan

 

[The Leprechaun]

So unless you invest in hp or sp.def don't try mud slapping a mega gengar... Noted lol. Sucker punch is your only hope it seems as you could die before your earthquake hits as well. This is of course assuming no hp or so def investment on mega kangaskan

Sub-Disable MGengar is going to be popular and actually, Kang does pretty well against this. The Gengar needs to play perfectly to avoid a KO through a sub as kang potentially has 3 opportunities to kill Gengar in the moves that are involved in Sub-Disable.

 

[shack]

An uninvested Mega Kangaskhan takes 353 damage minimum from Modest Mega Gengar's Focus Blast and has 351 HP. So no.

What about the other way around? Would a Sucker Punch from a Jolly or Adamant Mega Kang invested in Attack be enough to OHKO Gengar? If not, what about after a Fake out?

EDIT: I just used a damage calc, looks like it will do 222-262 damage and MegaGeng has 230-324 HP. If you wait the first turn and use Scrappy + Fake Out you should be able to finish it off the next turn before it can even attack.

 

[The Great Gastly]

so, Return > Double-Edge?

I posted a set on the previous page, but I think it was ignored due to it being so alike to other sets... but does she need to pack Earthquake? If you use Scrappy correctly, (and thus Mega Evolve at the right time), then I think Fake Out / Return / Sucker Punch / Power-Up Punch should suffice. :O

 

[shack]

so, Return > Double-Edge?

I posted a set on the previous page, but I think it was ignored due to it being so alike to other sets... but does she need to pack Earthquake? If you use Scrappy correctly, (and thus Mega Evolve at the right time), then I think Fake Out / Return / Sucker Punch / Power-Up Punch should suffice. :O

Sounds good, but it depends on your strat, I kind of like Body Slam over return to go for paralysis chance to allow you to force switches and allow you more turns to Power-Up

 

[The Great Gastly]

Sounds good, but it depends on your strat, I kind of like Body Slam over return to go for paralysis chance to allow you to force switches and allow you more turns to Power-Up

I'd use it as an emergency check to set-up sweepers that get out of control, with the double Fake Out + double Sucker Punch combo. She can also make a nice wall-breaker with Return, coupled with her reliable means of boosting attack. :]

 

[The Leprechaun]

so, Return > Double-Edge?
I posted a set on the previous page, but I think it was ignored due to it being so alike to other sets... but does she need to pack Earthquake? If you use Scrappy correctly, (and thus Mega Evolve at the right time), then I think Fake Out / Return / Sucker Punch / Power-Up Punch should suffice. :O

Having Fake Out as well as power-up punch is kinda counter intuitive. Fake out can't benefit at all from PuP boosts basically making a set-up less rewarding because of your lack of coverage.

 

[chicobo329]

What's the viability of using something like Focus Energy now that it appears to give 50% crit chance? Or even Focus Energy and then double up Shadow Claw for two guaranteed crits and in general ignore opposing defensive boosts.

 

[DTC]

What's the viability of using something like Focus Energy now that it appears to give 50% crit chance? Or even Focus Energy and then double up Shadow Claw for two guaranteed crits and in general ignore opposing defensive boosts.

You should be using Power-Up Punch if you want to boost your damage output. Using Power-Up Punch over Focus Energy is much more worthwhile because 2x the damage is better than 1.5x, and it lasts for more than just one turn.

Also in my opinion, Body Slam >>> Return. Body Slam's 51% paralysis chance is just way too good to pass up.

 

[The Leprechaun]

You should be using Power-Up Punch if you want to boost your damage output. Using Power-Up Punch over Focus Energy is much more worthwhile because 2x the damage is better than 1.5x, and it lasts for more than just one turn.

Also in my opinion, Body Slam >>> Return. Body Slam's 51% paralysis chance is just way too good to pass up.

I know I put body slam in the op but I think it might be illegal with sucker-punch (possibly power up punch as well but I'm not sure how it learns that). Body slam can be learned in any gen before gen IV but sucker punch is a gen IV egg move. I'm not sure what the deal is at this point.

 

[chicobo329]

You should be using Power-Up Punch if you want to boost your damage output. Using Power-Up Punch over Focus Energy is much more worthwhile because 2x the damage is better than 1.5x, and it lasts for more than just one turn.

Also in my opinion, Body Slam >>> Return. Body Slam's 51% paralysis chance is just way too good to pass up.

Focus Energy's effects do last more than one turn though if I remember correctly (unless Gen VI changed this to be just for one turn), and there are times where you can't Power Up Punch because of a Fighting immunity from a Ghost type like say, all the Aegislash running around. And what's to stop a user from carrying both Focus Energy and Power Up Punch? +2 defense-ignoring crits really sting.

I would concur on the other topic of Body Slam over Return. If you were silly you could Headbutt too for paraflinch but one slot on just Body Slam is enough.