I'd probably use Bite or Headbutt over Rock Slide because of more coverage and no chances of missing. Flinching is better paired with Body Slam for paraflinch.
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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Instead of Power-Up Punch has anybody thought of using a bulky Kanga with Bulldoze and Rock Tomb for coverage which would also lower the opponents speed two stages? I'd probably pair it with Fake-Out and Double-Edge. Double-Edge is incredibly underappreciated on Kanga in this set. It KO's pretty much anything that doesn't resist it after Fake-Out or entry-hazard damage, and a lot of the time even without that damage. The Power-Up Punch is really pretty unecessary.
What about the recoil? MegaKang already has no healing and will be slower than a lot of the sweepers that come in to try and take it out. Also what if it gets burned or toxic?I still think Power-Up Punch is too good to pass up. After 3 of them your at max attack and u prob already killed 2 things
The recoil has been reduced backed down to 1/4th again I think. And Kangaskhan can really seem to take it well. Being burned IS a genuine problem, but after experimenting with Power-Up Punch Kangaskhan it just feels like it's almost always an unnecessary addition, she's just already so strong! The speed is the main problem, and if the opponent switches into a Bulldoze or Rock Tomb then they're pretty much garunteed to be slower, and then they'll take the Double-Edge before they can react, assuming they don't pop a priority move. Clearly Mach Punch is something to be feared, same with Prankster Will-O-Wisp.
One major downside to mega Kanga is that contact moves/items (rocky helmet Ferrothorn) totally wreck it. Twice the chance to get burnt from flame body, etc.
I saw someone bring up Rock Tomb, and while yes that's a valid point, I'd like to point out the move that's going to shift the metagame this gen: Sticky Web. You don't need to have an attacking move that lowers Speed when it's done automatically for you and for that matter on the entirety of your opponent's party barring Flying types and Levitating Pokemon. I'd rather slam them with getting +2 on their switch and them still being potentially slower because of Sticky Web.
Just thought I'd throw in that currently in high-level (1900+) singles rated matches, Kangaskhan/Mega Kangaskhan is easily the most seen and overused Pokemon.
The set is pretty standard, but some prefer running 252 HP/252 Atk Adamant instead.
This is usually supported by a Physically Bulky Gyarados (HP252/Def252), Bulky Chesnaut, or Bulky Gourgeist, all running with Rocky Helmet to add on further residual damage.
They usually run both.
Usually something like
-Return/Frustration
-PUP
-Fakeout/Sucker Punch
-EQ / Crunch (if above is Fakeout) / sometimes even Crush Claw
Regarding Mawile at 1900'ish even Mawile dies down to the almighty King Kang.
The most meta pokes are probably:
M-Kangaskhan
Gyara/Gourgiest/Chestnaught (to support Kang)
Rotom-W
Talonflame
Garchomp/Azumaril/T-Tar/Aegislash
Its kinda funny how people were complaining about M-Blaz or M-Gengar when they couldn't have been further from the truth.
The set is pretty standard, but some prefer running 252 HP/252 Atk Adamant instead.
This is usually supported by a Physically Bulky Gyarados (HP252/Def252), Bulky Chesnaut, or Bulky Gourgeist, all running with Rocky Helmet to add on further residual damage.
They usually run both.
Usually something like
-Return/Frustration
-PUP
-Fakeout/Sucker Punch
-EQ / Crunch (if above is Fakeout) / sometimes even Crush Claw
Regarding Mawile at 1900'ish even Mawile dies down to the almighty King Kang.
The most meta pokes are probably:
M-Kangaskhan
Gyara/Gourgiest/Chestnaught (to support Kang)
Rotom-W
Talonflame
Garchomp/Azumaril/T-Tar/Aegislash
Its kinda funny how people were complaining about M-Blaz or M-Gengar when they couldn't have been further from the truth.
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Recently bred a Kangaskhan as my first competitive Pokemon this gen and gosh, that baby Kangaskhan is so damn cute! Right now im looking to build a team around it (for Wifi), but my knowledge of competitive pokemon is rather poor and i dont really know what to aim for. So what is the general direction you want to go when building a team with Kangaskhan? ( I hope this kind of question is appropriate in this thread)
Im assuming mega Kang has problems with either Pokemon that out speed him or Pokemon that resist his main attacks and hit back hard.
Reikai suggested Gyara, Gourgeist or Chestnaught as mates, so i guess bulky offense is the way to go? Why does mega Kanga benefit from a bulky offensive playstyle / How does it help to work around his counters?
Also, i was surprised that you, Reikai, listed a set with PUP and Fakeout as one that is used in high level play. I thought Fakeout is promoting a hit and run tactic while PUP is rather used when you want to stay in as Kang for a longer time.
I hope im not going off topic when asking this kind of stuff, or babbling too much nonsense xD
Again, im really not a experienced player but interested what role he has in a team and how you can optimize him.
Im assuming mega Kang has problems with either Pokemon that out speed him or Pokemon that resist his main attacks and hit back hard.
Reikai suggested Gyara, Gourgeist or Chestnaught as mates, so i guess bulky offense is the way to go? Why does mega Kanga benefit from a bulky offensive playstyle / How does it help to work around his counters?
Also, i was surprised that you, Reikai, listed a set with PUP and Fakeout as one that is used in high level play. I thought Fakeout is promoting a hit and run tactic while PUP is rather used when you want to stay in as Kang for a longer time.
I hope im not going off topic when asking this kind of stuff, or babbling too much nonsense xD
Again, im really not a experienced player but interested what role he has in a team and how you can optimize him.
90 BP Fakeout is nothing to laugh at
The Gyara/Gourgeist/Naught are there to take hits that Kang is not sure it can eat. (Mega Luc CC or something) usually with rocky helmet to pile on some residual damage.
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Long time reader, first time poster, just saying that now. I'm not really sure of the format for all of this, so I'll just type what I know in here.
First off, Its now confirmed that while the second hit is not as powerful as the first, moves that boost or lower stats when used (ex: Flame charge, Charge beam, Power-up punch) will activate twice. That brings quite a few new ways to use good old Kanga.
Personally, I'd use a moveset kind of like this:
Power-Up Punch
Sucker Punch
Drain Punch
Substitute
It really isn't anything too far out of the part, I've been using a similar set for a while with Kanga, minus the power up punch. The whole idea here, is while shes not the most bulky thing in the world, she tends to be more so than people think, and you can set up a sub easy enough with a little prediction. Then you'd power up punch for the double stat boost, and start sucker punching your way to victory, with the sub protecting you from status moves or the rare priority that might outspeed you. Drain punch is on there just in case you get a chance to gather a little bit of health back, that second hit really makes you get a titanic amount of health from it.
What I'm mostly curious about, is how Parental Bond effects multi hit moves. I mean, it would probably just make them go twice, but that seems a little over the top. Imagine a ten hit comet punch, that seems silly to even be an option. If she didn't have to give up her held item to get parental bond, I might even consider a big root set just to see how much health I can get with a well placed drain punch, but sadly, that will never really be an option, and that poor item will stay useless forever.
First off, Its now confirmed that while the second hit is not as powerful as the first, moves that boost or lower stats when used (ex: Flame charge, Charge beam, Power-up punch) will activate twice. That brings quite a few new ways to use good old Kanga.
Personally, I'd use a moveset kind of like this:
Power-Up Punch
Sucker Punch
Drain Punch
Substitute
It really isn't anything too far out of the part, I've been using a similar set for a while with Kanga, minus the power up punch. The whole idea here, is while shes not the most bulky thing in the world, she tends to be more so than people think, and you can set up a sub easy enough with a little prediction. Then you'd power up punch for the double stat boost, and start sucker punching your way to victory, with the sub protecting you from status moves or the rare priority that might outspeed you. Drain punch is on there just in case you get a chance to gather a little bit of health back, that second hit really makes you get a titanic amount of health from it.
What I'm mostly curious about, is how Parental Bond effects multi hit moves. I mean, it would probably just make them go twice, but that seems a little over the top. Imagine a ten hit comet punch, that seems silly to even be an option. If she didn't have to give up her held item to get parental bond, I might even consider a big root set just to see how much health I can get with a well placed drain punch, but sadly, that will never really be an option, and that poor item will stay useless forever.
I've not read the entire thread so forgive me if some of these things have been pointed out, but there really are a lot of haxy options for Mega Kanga:
Body Slam- 30% para
Crunch- 20% lower def
Iron Tail- 30% lower def
Rock Slide- 30% flinch
Bite- 30% flinch
Crush Claw- 50% lower def
Dizzy Punch- 20% confusion
Dynamic Punch- 100% confusion
Headbutt- 30% flinch
Mudslap- 100% lower accuracy
Rock Climb- 20% confusion
Secret Power- 30% lower accuracy
Stomp- 30% flinch
Considering her 105/100/100 defenses, 125 base attack, and access to Wish, I'm looking at this as the new and improved Jirachi (which I intend to use alongside Togekiss and Jirachi). That said, what do you think are the most viable options above? Most sets I've seen have run 252 att/speed, but I'd like to see a more interesting spread to take advantage of all these wonderful options.
Also, another interesting attack is Fury Cutter which can reach 160 Base Power by its second use.
Body Slam- 30% para
Crunch- 20% lower def
Iron Tail- 30% lower def
Rock Slide- 30% flinch
Bite- 30% flinch
Crush Claw- 50% lower def
Dizzy Punch- 20% confusion
Dynamic Punch- 100% confusion
Headbutt- 30% flinch
Mudslap- 100% lower accuracy
Rock Climb- 20% confusion
Secret Power- 30% lower accuracy
Stomp- 30% flinch
Considering her 105/100/100 defenses, 125 base attack, and access to Wish, I'm looking at this as the new and improved Jirachi (which I intend to use alongside Togekiss and Jirachi). That said, what do you think are the most viable options above? Most sets I've seen have run 252 att/speed, but I'd like to see a more interesting spread to take advantage of all these wonderful options.
Also, another interesting attack is Fury Cutter which can reach 160 Base Power by its second use.
It's very tempting to go Jolly with 252 Speed EVs to outrun neutral nature 112s like Adamant Mega Lucario and his CC. You don't want to lose Sucker Punch to a faster priority either. Is that what most people are agreeing on now or is it missing key kills from Adamant? I can find calcs but nothing definitive to argue it.
When Body Slam will be available, this will be really pointless.
Has anyone tested out hax sets over damage yet? So instead of Return, Fake Out, EQ, PuP/Sucker Punch run Dizzy Punch, Body Slam, Bite/Headbutt/Rockslide, Sub? Basically I want to know if its even worth it or if you're just better of killing everything in 1-2 hits. Are there enough pokes that can wall her that she would need to go for conparaflinch?
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I know in NU Kanga is useful for its Fake Out + Sucker Punch combo, but in OU imo Kanga should be running this set (This set is pure theory mon btw, but the calcs look nice)
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Return / Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake / Drain Punch
- Crunch / Ice Punch
Now I know Flamethrower looks odd on something with 60 SpA; however, Flamethrower has a great base power of 135 thanks to Parential Bond (I think that's how it works, right? 90 + 45 = 135) and hits Steel-types that EQ / Drain Punch don't quite cover such as Skarm and Ferrothorn. Return (153 BP w/o STAB) is very strong (I can't seem to get Body Slam to work with Scrappy in PS!, so I think there's an illegality there), while EQ (150 BP) provides nice cover. Crunch is there for Ghost-types, since Kanga doesn't have Scrappy after Megavolving. However, if Lando-T is more of a problem than Ghost-types, you can run Ice Punch instead (Ice Beam is also an option, since it isn't bothered by Intimidate. However, damage output is only notable if Lando-T is running Hasty. Note that Lando-T isn't legal yet, so this isn't an issue until Pokemon Bank is released) Running Double-Edge is a very tasty alternative, as it essentially has 180 BP before STAB. However, the recoil is huge, so Drain Punch is a must with Double-Edge. Speaking of Drain Punch, it is a decent alternative to Earthquake, trading power for healing and hitting different things. This set uses Mega Kanga's decent base 100 Speed to its advantage. However, it is still revengable at that speed. Max bulk and Brave Nature are an option, but 100 is decent enough for a speedy set imo. This thing also misses the Fake Out+Sucker Punch combo, and should definitely not be used in lower tiers if it is allowed there, as most of the things Fire Blast hits are relevant to OU only. Here are some calcs of this things impressive power.
MegaKanga still has a lot of problems, like base 100 being pretty easily revengable and its lack luster typing. It also has problems breaking through some other bulkier pokemon such as Physically Defensive Hippo, but outside of that Fire Blast Kanga is probably its best set in OU.By the way, no, Flamethrower is not an option - Kanga needs the higher BP Fire Blast provides (4 SpA Kangaskhan Flamethrower (135 BP) vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 166-196 (50.76 - 59.93%) -- 85.94% chance to 2HKO). Flamethrower is better because I forgot Fire Blast has to hit twice. Also, I'm an idiot - Flamethrower pretty much gets the same KOs Fire Blast does. This means that MegaKanga absolutely needs hazard support. Fire Punch could also be used, but it's only really notably more effective on Ferrothorn, as Skarm and Forry take Fire Punch much better than Fire Blast, and Scizor gets roasted by both. Other steels are better hit by EQ or Drain Punch really.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Return / Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake / Drain Punch
- Crunch / Ice Punch
Now I know Flamethrower looks odd on something with 60 SpA; however, Flamethrower has a great base power of 135 thanks to Parential Bond (I think that's how it works, right? 90 + 45 = 135) and hits Steel-types that EQ / Drain Punch don't quite cover such as Skarm and Ferrothorn. Return (153 BP w/o STAB) is very strong (I can't seem to get Body Slam to work with Scrappy in PS!, so I think there's an illegality there), while EQ (150 BP) provides nice cover. Crunch is there for Ghost-types, since Kanga doesn't have Scrappy after Megavolving. However, if Lando-T is more of a problem than Ghost-types, you can run Ice Punch instead (Ice Beam is also an option, since it isn't bothered by Intimidate. However, damage output is only notable if Lando-T is running Hasty. Note that Lando-T isn't legal yet, so this isn't an issue until Pokemon Bank is released) Running Double-Edge is a very tasty alternative, as it essentially has 180 BP before STAB. However, the recoil is huge, so Drain Punch is a must with Double-Edge. Speaking of Drain Punch, it is a decent alternative to Earthquake, trading power for healing and hitting different things. This set uses Mega Kanga's decent base 100 Speed to its advantage. However, it is still revengable at that speed. Max bulk and Brave Nature are an option, but 100 is decent enough for a speedy set imo. This thing also misses the Fake Out+Sucker Punch combo, and should definitely not be used in lower tiers if it is allowed there, as most of the things Fire Blast hits are relevant to OU only. Here are some calcs of this things impressive power.
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4 SpA Kangaskhan Flamethrower vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 166-196 (50.76 - 59.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Kangaskhan Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.54 - 64.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Kangaskhan Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 388-460 (109.6 - 129.94%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 226-266 (58.7 - 69.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 180-212 (59.21 - 69.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 224-264 (73.68 - 86.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 211-249 (50.23 - 59.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 247-292 (58.8 - 69.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 220-260 (54.45 - 64.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 175-207 (45.93 - 54.33%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 178-210 (55.62 - 65.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKOMegaKanga still has a lot of problems, like base 100 being pretty easily revengable and its lack luster typing. It also has problems breaking through some other bulkier pokemon such as Physically Defensive Hippo, but outside of that Fire Blast Kanga is probably its best set in OU.
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I think know Kangaskhan with its new ability it can not only deal some hefty damage but also break Focus Sashes something that is essential for suicide leads like smeargle/mamo/accelgor...And this is what mainly makes kangaskan now,a top tier threat in my opinion...Also the added Bulk/speed/power that MegaKanga got is a great addition that will easily make him even more usable!
I think substitute Gengar builds are too popular to not be running a coverage move for it. It's not like I see them every single game, but I certainly see them far too often. It's pretty embarrassing knowing that I have to swap out and let him sub up because I can only hit him with Sucker Punch (and therefor can't hit him at all because he will Sub, then sub stall to regen health with black sludge.)
Like Wasted said I am really liking:
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- EQ
- Shadow Claw
Like Wasted said I am really liking:
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- EQ
- Shadow Claw
Suffering from 4 move slot syndrome. The Fake Out is to get a STAB that is great for revenge killing, weakening and breaking sashes. What do you notice to be the most useful? Is PuP needed or does she do enough damage without it?
Based off the numbers I looked at before I don't think she can. The only hope is to use Scrappy for a Fake Out THEN Mega Evolve and go for Sucker Punch
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The problem with Mega Kangaskhan is that with the rather traditional movepool of: Fake Out, Normal STAB of choice, Power-Up Punch / Earthquake, and Sucker Punch, it becomes totally helpless to most Ghosts that can either set up or status Kanga, namely Levitating Ghosts and the Grass/Ghosts. Regular Scrappy Kanga does not have this problem, so users should try to hold off on the Mega-Evolution if they see said Ghosts on the opposing field lest Kanga be totally helpless against them.
I dunno, PUP seems dangerous on paper, but whenever I've had it used against me it's been... underwhelming at best. To be fair, I run a duo of MMawile and Gyarados, and since both have Intimidate most of the time the opposing Mkangaskhan is at -1 or -2 before they PUP and that's when I SD with MMawile and sweep their team. Even +0 PUP does almost negligible damage on MMawile, and I've taken +1 Parental Bond Returns that deal meh damage. That's against MMawile, though. Even at -1 a Parental Bond Fake out does a good 20% health on my 0HP/4Def Gyarados.
So do you think the better option would be to just start earthquaking form the start?
I'd think so. Though Mkangaskhan gets buffed stats, its speed tier is still pretty average. Any priority user or DD/Speed Boost users will decimate MKangaskhan if it tries to set up with PUP. Gotta watch out for flyers/levitates though if you want to spam Earthquake.
Edit: Then again, it does have Sucker Punch... I'm not too sure about this though. Like I said, every time I've seen PUP used against me it's been underwhelming. If I have lost to a MKangaskhan, it's because the other player outplayed me rather than a buffed attack stat.
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