Either way unless kanga has a way of carrying the elemental punches which I don't think it does bulldoze sounds a tad more effective. Pretty sure there's a slight drop in power but bulldoze gives the opponent lowered speed. So essentially if heatran switches in with bulky set and kanga throws bulldoze first, then it could follow up with PuP and get a knockout with an a attack boost to follow the next victim. Kinda thinking switching between bulldoze and PuP is a fun way to setup without losing momentum
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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Dragonite could be use as a revenge killer. He can take a hit from Kangaskhan really well (except Ice Punch or +2 Return obviously) and OHKO back with Superpower or Outrage with SR. The bulky Dragon Dance set doesn't cut it infortunately since Kangaskhan can retaliate with Sucker Punch on the second turn after DD. Extreme Speed also can't secure a 2HKO as well.
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 440-518 (125.3 - 147.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 330-388 (94 - 110.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 147-173 (41.8 - 49.2%)
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Bulldoze was considered in the analysis, but rejected because there's no reason to lower something's speed when Megakahn has the power to easily KO it. In your Heatran example, going straight for the PuP on the switch and outspeeding and KOing with Earthquake is better in every way than wasting time with Bulldoze.
Dragonite can't outspeed Kangaskahn and doesn't even have ESpeed yet, so it's definitely not a "revenge killer". The only way it could win 1 on 1 is if Mega Kangaskahn hasn't gained a boost AND Dragonite still has Multiscale intact, which is an unlikely scenario considering a good Megakahn user will wait until the coast is clear for a sweep.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 279-330 (86.1 - 101.8%)
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 93-110 (Each hit deals ~28.7 - 33.9%, 57-68% combined)
+2 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 186-219 (Each hit deals ~57.4 - 67.5%, guaranteed OHKO combined)
You also have to consider that if Megakahn can't OHKO it will switch out, and Choice-locked Superpower and Outrage are very easy moves to punish.
Fast, powerful Dark-resistant Pokemon are the best way to revenge Megakahn. Just about anything with a fast Substitute can at least play Sucker Punch mind games with Megakahn, but if it goes for anything but Sucker Punch, you're in trouble.
You know this thing is the 800-pound-gorrila of OU when you start seeing Rocky Helmet slapped on anything imaginable...
Shroomisaur, I was about to edit that it's extremely unreliable and you should not use that, but your post also do the job. I have no idea where we can find another semi reliable counter to Mega Kangaskhan except Sableye. Also, I had Pokebank OU in mind when I talked about Espeed.
That's not accurate. Nobody will purposely use a Fire move on Heatran, and specially defensive variants don't take much damage from them anyway. Flame Body helps a lot punishing U-turn users like Genesect and Fighting-types in general, and is often the preferred ability on defensive sets. But as I said, since Mega Kangaskhan often runs Earthquake this might not always be helpful (but flatout writing it off as an option is a silly thing to do to say the least). Sometimes you need to think outside the box so you don't miss things like this.
Flame Body Heatran is kinda like Heatproof Bronzong: Nobody will ever EQ you. Except, well, you're not immune to EQ. You can't use Bronzong to beat a bunch of things it normally beats because you can't switch in on EQ, and thus a lot of Zong's use is eliminated. If it is ever revealed (Trace, Flame Body Activation, switching Tran into a Fire move) that it ISN'T Flash Fire, suddenly, a lot of options open up for the opponent BECAUSE they can now abuse the fact Heatran is not Fire immune, which gives usually a free go for stuff like Gene to pick Flamethrower for free or something else similar. The only different between Flash Fire and Flame Body is that Flash Fire gives Heatran one of the best defensive Niches in the entire game (Like Gen 4 Zong w/ Levitate), and Flame Body in no way at all helps Heatran beat anything that already beats him, AND only has a 30% chance of doing anything useful, AND doesn't even activate against his most crippling weakness: Earthquake (unlike Heatproof).
If you can't follow what I'm saying: Flame Body Heatran is terrible.
If you can't follow what I'm saying: Flame Body Heatran is terrible.
Has anyone made mention of mega lucario special mixed yet? With blaziken banned it's the only fighting mega evo left to go punch for punch with kanga. Unless your counting medicham who is not bad at all but slightly weaker due to its psychic half typing and weakness to parental bond sucker punch
crunch is a bit overrated on kanga
1. sucker punch deals with ghost sweepers.
2. earthquake can take out banette and any other non levitate supporters
mega kanga is not a monster. skarmory can totally wall it in non pokebank OU because mega kanga can not deal with it due to the lack of fire punch
and lets be honest, it is walled by aegislash. the main reason why this thing is dangerous is because it is unpredictable.
1. sucker punch deals with ghost sweepers.
2. earthquake can take out banette and any other non levitate supporters
mega kanga is not a monster. skarmory can totally wall it in non pokebank OU because mega kanga can not deal with it due to the lack of fire punch
and lets be honest, it is walled by aegislash. the main reason why this thing is dangerous is because it is unpredictable.
1. Let's see ... Popular ghost right now are Gengar, Aegislash, Trevenant, Gourgeist. Sucker Punch can't deal with Sub Gengar, Trevenant and Gourgeist.
2. How does Aegislash even wall Mega Kangaskhan?
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 246-291 (75.9 - 89.8%)
Aegislash should not switch into Mega Kangaskhan and definitely does not wall Mega Kangaskhan.
Oh and how is this thing unpredictable? Its movesets consist of 4 out of 5 or 6 possible moves.
That's not like Mega Lucario which can run physical, special or maybe mixed set. This thing is predictable, but it's still not that easy to stop.
The issue with using only Sucker Punch to deal with ghosts is that most of them are switching in for 2 reasons: To cripple you with WoW, which sucker punch can't do anything about it since it's a status move, and prevent PuP boosts. Aegislash gets murdered by earthquake and you can use sucker punch if he decides to attack since it doesn't trigger the King's Shield penalty. Aegislash also can't KO him back in retaliation.
252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 225-267 (69.4 - 82.4%)
252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-213 (55.5 - 65.7%)
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 240-284 (68.1 - 80.6%)
If you are using Skarmory to phaze Kangaskhan out, I have bad news for you. Skarmory will get mauled thanks to the raw power of +2 Crunch. It's a guaranteed chance to 3HKO with leftovers on.
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-171 (44 - 52.2%)
Right. Crunch lets you maul slower WoW users, possibly before they get a burn off. The unpredictable part of Mega-K is which 4 moves it ends up with.
Although, for example, if you can survive that Sucker Punch and use Weakness Policy, a +2 Sacred Sword WILL slash Mega-K into knockout territory. Go with Sacred Sword, take the Sucker Punch on your Shield Form, get the +2 from Weakness Policy, KO Kangskhan with +2 Sword, and you're +2 for whatever's next (likely a Sneak if it's fast, or Sword/Shadow Ball if not). And being slow, odds are it'll trigger it if they go Earthquake as well since either way, Mega-K will go first.
It's one of those cases where Weakness Policy Aegislash can gank the monster before it goes berzerk, if you get it in before the thing PuPs up. But that's prediction games- if it hits you on the switch in, it wins anyway. If you switch in on a PuP, you're almost guaranteed with Mega-K to see a trigger for WP and can slap it out with a +2 Sword. If it's EQ, you're getting 2HKO'd by the second hit before you can OHKO it.
Although, for example, if you can survive that Sucker Punch and use Weakness Policy, a +2 Sacred Sword WILL slash Mega-K into knockout territory. Go with Sacred Sword, take the Sucker Punch on your Shield Form, get the +2 from Weakness Policy, KO Kangskhan with +2 Sword, and you're +2 for whatever's next (likely a Sneak if it's fast, or Sword/Shadow Ball if not). And being slow, odds are it'll trigger it if they go Earthquake as well since either way, Mega-K will go first.
It's one of those cases where Weakness Policy Aegislash can gank the monster before it goes berzerk, if you get it in before the thing PuPs up. But that's prediction games- if it hits you on the switch in, it wins anyway. If you switch in on a PuP, you're almost guaranteed with Mega-K to see a trigger for WP and can slap it out with a +2 Sword. If it's EQ, you're getting 2HKO'd by the second hit before you can OHKO it.
Has anyone here considered cofagrigus? I saw alexhitman666 mention that he was looking for another reliable counter to kan, and actually cofagrigus is more reliable than Sableye at counter kan. Cof has mummy, which destroys parental bond, and a huge defensive stat of 145. Unfortunately, showdown is currently SLIGHTLY glitched on mummy v parental bond, as yesterday my cof switchin caused kan to still attack twice even after becoming infected with mummy.
When in, however, kan loses parental bond (he did so even on switch, I just don't know why it didn't solidly activate) and thus becomes a great deal less effective. Unless they predict the cof switch, they also generally don't hit cof on the switch (PuP/Return) and should they stay in, they get burned. HP fighting/rest/Willowisp/Skill swap is a good set (I run skill swap to take care of magic guard users as well) but a little customization can come into play with Cof's fairly decent support move pool. He also has a few moves that would otherwise be 'gimmicks' (aka skill swap) but really are beautiful when designing him to counter specific opponents.
Other than that, I've got nothing on the kan counter frontier. I used to try toxic stall chansey/skarm/slowbro to regen as he lost health, but if the kan went for PuP once or twice, I was in trouble.
When in, however, kan loses parental bond (he did so even on switch, I just don't know why it didn't solidly activate) and thus becomes a great deal less effective. Unless they predict the cof switch, they also generally don't hit cof on the switch (PuP/Return) and should they stay in, they get burned. HP fighting/rest/Willowisp/Skill swap is a good set (I run skill swap to take care of magic guard users as well) but a little customization can come into play with Cof's fairly decent support move pool. He also has a few moves that would otherwise be 'gimmicks' (aka skill swap) but really are beautiful when designing him to counter specific opponents.
Other than that, I've got nothing on the kan counter frontier. I used to try toxic stall chansey/skarm/slowbro to regen as he lost health, but if the kan went for PuP once or twice, I was in trouble.
When one Pokemon can make Cof look that good, you know it's scary. On the other hand, stealing Kangskhan's Parental Bond makes other Pokemon look terrifying as well. (or having a Pokemon that can "borrow" it like Alakazam with Role Play)
Mismagius might well get away with that, too. It can Skill Swap for Bond and can reasonably outspeed Mega-K, Levitates over Earthquake and defensive builds will also have the burn option with WoW. Bond Shadow Ball + HP fighting off it's Speed/SpAtk wouldn't be a bad punch to deliver, either. But that won't be till post-Pokebank.
Mismagius might well get away with that, too. It can Skill Swap for Bond and can reasonably outspeed Mega-K, Levitates over Earthquake and defensive builds will also have the burn option with WoW. Bond Shadow Ball + HP fighting off it's Speed/SpAtk wouldn't be a bad punch to deliver, either. But that won't be till post-Pokebank.
Someone mentioned it a while back. However Cofagrius takes about ~50% from a crunch, and can't survive a +2 Crunch if their damage calcs are to believed.
I've usually only beaten M-Kangaskhan with Mega Lucario in my team. though mine was just the usual Close Combat/E-Speed/Crunch/SD set. I tried to get the job done with Choice Band Scizor w/ Brick Break/Superpower but the success rate is much lower.
I'm thinking maybe Close Combat or Aura Sphere users are the way to go. Aura Sphere is much more reliable than a Focus Blast from a dedicated Specially based mon (specs Hydreigon, Alakazam, etc.) so maybe a bulky Aura Sphere user like Mega Blastoise might be nice? or failing that, anything fast with Close Combat.
I've been using Close Combat / Flash Cannon / Dark pulse / Dragon Pulse 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe, I just put Dragon Pulse because I was srsly being annoyed of Garchomp xP (it's all over linked battles).
Though Mega khan is great, Fake out sets are getting fewer and fewer, because ME Khan needs more coverage.
Though Mega khan is great, Fake out sets are getting fewer and fewer, because ME Khan needs more coverage.
crunch is rubbish on kanga. it needs sucker punch for pritory . I use mega kanga and sucker punch has saved me more often than not.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Power Up Punch
- Return
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
without Sucker punch, my mega kanga would of been knocked out earlier in many of my games and many ghosts, like mega gengar aren't going to enjoy a earthquake. To be honest, kangashan needs pritory as base 100 isn't going to be outspeeding much. mega kanga is SLOW. it needs sucker punch unless your running a bulky set, and then crunch is opition and even then, that 10% latios could destroy kanga. kanga needs sucker punch.
Let's clear up some of the Ghost-type counter confusion. First, here are the calcs for Ghosts that at least stand a chance switching into a Megakahn Crunch, in order from best to worst:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 96-114 (31.5 - 37.5%), Earthquake: (38.8 - 46.3%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 121-144 (39.8 - 47.3%), Earthquake: (49.6 - 58.5%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 114-135 (40.1 - 47.5%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 177-210 (47.3 - 56.1%) ~21.5% 2HKO after Lefties
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%) Mummy prevents the 2HKO
So Cofagrigus is bottom of the barrel when it comes to bulky Ghost-types. Keep in mind all of these would need to survive 2 Crunches with the exception of Sableye, whose Prankster WoW makes it the best choice of all. These calcs are for Adamants; Jolly Megakahn will fail to 2HKO any of them without hazards. Also remember that EQ is the best choice against Sableye/Spiritomb.
Now here's the Ghost-types that have been mentioned in the thread that can't switch into Crunch directly. They can at least survive one if they get in on their immunities:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 255-300 (63.1 - 74.2%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Trevenant: 261-309 (69.7 - 82.6%)
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Gourgeist-Small: 204-240 (64.9 - 76.4%)
The Gourgeist-S calc is against Jolly Megakahn, because it actually outspeeds Adamant versions allowing it to land WoW before the Crunch. Cursed Body Jellicent is interesting because it has a 51% chance to disable Crunch after being hit, but those aren't good odds and it takes heavy damage in the process.
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Fake-out really sucks on this guy. Power-up Punch, Sucker Punch, Crunch and Return is the best set, although I'm tempted to sack return in exchange for earthquake because then the set wouldn't really have any counters and run it like this...
Crunch
Earthquake
Sucker Punch
Power-up Punch
If you're looking to counter this, Sub/Disable Mega Gengar works against any set that doesn't have Crunch and Bulky Rock Head Garchomp counters any set without earthquake.
Crunch
Earthquake
Sucker Punch
Power-up Punch
If you're looking to counter this, Sub/Disable Mega Gengar works against any set that doesn't have Crunch and Bulky Rock Head Garchomp counters any set without earthquake.
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if you lose return, you lose strong neutral coverage.
I find that Jolly is usually completely unnecessary because of Sucker Punch alone. The only time I'm fiending for it is when enemy Kanga tries to force a speed tie. I'm very much enjoying all of those 'just right' KOs that I know I'd miss with Jolly, like the +2 Fire Punch after a Skarm switches in on PUP.
Yep this. Gliscor and Hippo too. Adamant is clearly the superior choice, aside for other Kangaskhan there is no benefit to running Jolly
Terrakion might be a nice alternative to M-Lucario when Pokebank comes out, but right now it seems hard to deal with in the pre-Pokebank environment.
Even with M-Lucario it can be bad if they switch in something that kills it to help out M-Kangaskhan.
I'm finding it hard to kill it with Focus Blast w/ Special Sweepers like Hydreigon and Mega Alakazam because of the dodgy accuracy (and Hydreigon and Alakazam don't really have the best bulk around)
It seems like you either need to use a fighting STAB if physical (Close Combat, HJK, maybe even Drain Punch/Brick Break may even work) or Aura Sphere if Special (better accuracy than Focus Blast, but there's definitely less pokemon that can carry that.)
It seems you definitely need to outspeed though because Mega Khangaskhan can wallbreak so well that bulk doesn't seem to help much.
I was thinking if you can set up you could KO it neutrally, but I'd think you'd want to do Dragon Dance as opposed to Swords Dance because outspeeding is neccecary, but if you're doing Outrage with it, M-Kangaskhan could just switch into a Fairy and make you sad.
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