Kyurem

SJCrew

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Niether was your "/sarcasm" comment, when you could have just as easily said "I don't think having three Fire weak Pokemon is the best example"
That's boring. We're adults here, you can take a little harmless sarcasm.

But I have to admit though, I was just as offput by seeing a core of three Pokemon weak to Fire. At the very least, throw Kyuremu in there with his excellent bulk and Fire neutrality. He's like, the only reason I'd even use a Hail team. Give him a Specs or Scarf and spam all the Blizzards and Draco Meteors you want.
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Is it worth it to run max speed on this dude? Can he go the Ho-oh route and just pour EVs into hp and an attacking stat(s) of choice?
 
You can, but its not really worth it in my experience. His speed tier is pretty heavily populated, plus, most of the things he beats defensively such as most Water and Grass and Electric types, he does so regardless of defenses.
 
He's a joy to have in a hail team, a Mixed Kyuremu really tears apart a lot of stuff and is often the reason why I win the game. True, he has nothing to offer a hail team in terms of resistances (neutral to Fire is nice, but having Levitate would have done Kyuremu much more good - more chances to switch in). Draco Meteor / Blizzard / Focus Blast / Outrage isn't the best in terms of coverage, but whatever it hits gets hit hard, though.

edit: lol its exactly the set that Cshadow posted. what a coinky-dink.
 

Bologo

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I was wondering if using Imprison might be a good idea on Kyurem?

He's one of the few pokemon that isn't a Psychic or Ghost type to get it, and he certainly has the right moves to use it with.

For example, Imprison with Focus Blast would severely nerf a lot of his Special counters, since they can no longer use Focus Blast on him. He can also use both Focus Blast + Shadow Ball + Imprison to be quite a good Reuniclus check, since Reuniclus can now only use Psycho Shock on him.

Imprison with Draco Meteor or Outrage is obvious, since the Dragons would be pretty useless against him if they can't use the main Dragon attacking moves against him. Then again, you could just kill them with Draco Meteor.

Of course, since Imprison takes up a moveslot, you'd have to pick your moves carefully based on what your team can and can't handle. Maybe Imprison/Substitute/Draco Meteor/Focus Blast? I'm not sure what would really work well with Kyurem since I've never used him outside of a few matches, but Imprison seems like a nice niche since he actually has the bulk and power to put it to good use.
 
You can, but its not really worth it in my experience. His speed tier is pretty heavily populated, plus, most of the things he beats defensively such as most Water and Grass and Electric types, he does so regardless of defenses.
Of the base 95 Speed Tier, though, you will only really see Gliscor, Darmanitan, Houndoom, and maybe Arcanine. Gliscor is more defensive these days in my experience, and the relative rarity of the other three threats makes Timid + Max a lesser option. You could always just aim to outpace Adamant Luke and call it a day.

I was wondering if using Imprison might be a good idea on Kyurem?

He's one of the few pokemon that isn't a Psychic or Ghost type to get it, and he certainly has the right moves to use it with.

For example, Imprison with Focus Blast would severely nerf a lot of his Special counters, since they can no longer use Focus Blast on him. He can also use both Focus Blast + Shadow Ball + Imprison to be quite a good Reuniclus check, since Reuniclus can now only use Psycho Shock on him.

Imprison with Draco Meteor or Outrage is obvious, since the Dragons would be pretty useless against him if they can't use the main Dragon attacking moves against him. Then again, you could just kill them with Draco Meteor.

Of course, since Imprison takes up a moveslot, you'd have to pick your moves carefully based on what your team can and can't handle. Maybe Imprison/Substitute/Draco Meteor/Focus Blast? I'm not sure what would really work well with Kyurem since I've never used him outside of a few matches, but Imprison seems like a nice niche since he actually has the bulk and power to put it to good use.
I feel like it's a lesser option, but it might be viable. Like you said, I'd rather catch a dragon on the switch with Draco Meteor, while running Shadow Ball is basically redundant coverage and limits his moveslots even further. Not only that, but his more common weaknesses (Rock, Fighting, Steel), tend to be physical, and he lacks Close Combat while Stone Edge is lol coverage.
 

SJCrew

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Common or not, there are too many Pokemon close to the base 90 Speed tier for Kyuremu to run such low Speed. Don't try to go bulky unless you're also employing the use of both Substitute and Leftovers. Lucario, Arcanine, Hihidaruma, and other Kyuremu are good enough reasons for me.
 
Is it worth it to run max speed on this dude? Can he go the Ho-oh route and just pour EVs into hp and an attacking stat(s) of choice?
I like to do this and it seems to serve me pretty well. It doesn't seem worthwhile to invest speed since the things you might want speed for outrun you anyhow (Sazandora, Latias/Latios, Landlos, Garchomp, etc) which some you can outrun with Scarf although I think Scarf is kind of a waste on Kyurem's talents and if any of those were Scarfed or got a speed boost it wouldn't matter.

Blaziken might be a problem but you beat him if you set up Reflect before it comes and Draco Meteor although Hi Jump Kick will do a heavy blow. Scarf outspeeds it even after a Protect although again, I'm wary of Scarf since it's really kind of a waste of Kyurem's talents and there are better things at Scarf like Sazandora/Latis. If you use Kyurem, you should be trying to take advantage of it's pros like being an incredibly bulky special attacker that smacks HARD and is hard to kill. Plus, the others are still faster.

Electric/Water/Grass resistances are nice and a Fire/Ice Neutrality is good as well. It doesn't need speed to pretty much own waters that can't do much of anything to Kyurem so hp or special defense investment is worth considering. Dragonite is not particularly suicidal and it probably won't try to tangle with Kyurem fearing actual speed or Scarf and if you have Reflect and defense, not even Choice Band Outrage ohkos (avoid Stealth Rock though, that would allow it to win). Dragon Claw is WEAK on Reflect Kyurem (415 hp/256 Def) doing at max about 35% unboosted with 403 attack and bulky Dragon Dancers at 345 atk do 30%. Zapdos and Gliscor are not going to try to fight Kyurem. Very few Tyranitar's run speed anymore and Kyurem will always outrun the Adamant ones. Tyranitar can't ohko you anyways barring critical hit. Heracross isn't particularly used, Roopushin and Breloom will try to Mach Punch you (although Smart Roopushins will try to Drain Punch, handled by Reflect and that's even assuming they survive Draco Meteor which 2 hit koes so if they come in on that they're dead and Mach Punch less than 40% even without Reflect without a Guts boost. After Reflect, it's just lol. Scizor will pretty much always try to Bullet Puch you which you survive.

Can anyone come up with some legitimate pokemon between 226-289 speed that's actually worth outrunning with Kyurem and can't be handled by Screens, Kyurem's bulk, and doesn't fear switching in where speed actually makes a difference for Kyurem to ko before it koes Kyurem?

Edit-Okay, I was kind of late to the party. Arcanine, Lucario, Hidiharuma, and other Kyurem are very good reasons. The good news is that, most of those are fairly rare (for some reason few people use Kyurem, bulky fast things and MACH PUNCH made Lucario usage go down although if you run into that you can Reflect, Hidiharuma is also taken down with Reflect and can't survive Meteor as long as it isn't -2, Arcanine might be troublesome but pretty rare and likely only on Sun teams for the most part and Draco Meteor will ohko unless they're running bulky). Of those that's actually worth outspeeding, Kyurem seems the biggest threat since you can't Reflect (you need Light Screen) against it and you also need 241 SDef even with Light Screen to guarantee survival against Draco Meteor Specs (if you don't mind dropping your Special attack it could work).

Bulky Kyurem is my favorite hands down although Specs and Mixed are very fun as well. Speed is only helpful if you plan to run choice or mixed, any other shouldn't really bother and it really helps Kyurem's surviveability.
 
Has anyone used Endeavor in a hail team with success?
I really wish it had Snow Warning and Ice Shard for this reason alone... but even without those, any way to take advantage of it?
I guess you could eat a Scizor Bullet Punch with minor investment of defense and then cripple the next switchin assuming it's slower than you with Endeavor? That is really the only thing I could think of to use Endeavor for and hitting things with Icebeam/Blizzard, Draco Meteors, Focus Blasts, Hp Fires, setting up Screens or subs, etc just seem better and more productive otherwise.

I guess with 391 hp and 226 def and 280 speed you could eat Scizor Bullet Punch assuming full health, kill it with Hp Fire, and then blast the next hopefully slower switchin (anything faster or priority would finish you off) with Endeavor. But again, I don't see much point in it.
 
That was some rage coming from me. What an idiot I am. Anyway why do people diss him? 660 BST means a mix of offense, speed and bulk (125 HP yeahhhh). Sure, you can say 'lol shit movepool' but it has Dragon STAB. Just use HP Fire for steels (though when you have to rely on HP for coverage it kinda sucks) and since Kyurem's movepool is so barren just use Focus Miss in the last slot. It does hit Tyranitar though.

So basically you spam DM and switch out if you're running a Specs set. You could even run Mixed to smack Blissey switching in on an expected DM only to find themselves smacked with STAB Outrage. The only thing Kyurem wants is a Fire move (SO DO LATI@S) and a boosting move.

Damn, you can even run bulky for DS support :o Kyurem is pretty diverse for a Pokemon you see only on a Hail team most of the time!
 

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
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My current set:

Kyurem @ leftovers
Modest
228 HP / 204 SpA / 76 Spe

Frozen World
Dragon Pulse
HP Fire
Focus Blast

I don't use FB much. I might change it. 448 hp, 216 defenses, 380 special attack and 244 speed. Frozen world is such an amazing move. He's bulky enough to take repeated hits and KO back. Great BP recipient paired with venomoth.

IMO the lowest speed he should run is 240. This outpaces adamant breloom (spore) and outruns almost every nonscarved poke in OU after a frozen world.

Sub + frozen world. Sub on the switch, FW the counter and KO next turn. Works well for faster frailer revengers ect.
 

SJCrew

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Why don't you actually run some speed so that he can outspeed even Scarfers next turn? Or better yet, double speed sweepers like Doryuuzu and Kingdra. PO has Frozen World registered as -2, so Kyu can 2HKO just about anything under the safety of a Sub. Can't for the life of me think why you'd need 200-something HP when Kyu's already naturally bulky to take about the same kinds of attacks, set up on the same Pokemon, and get beaten by the things he can't handle (Chansey, Blissey, etc.) However, I can think of plenty of reasons to run speed....

Also, keep Focus Blast my good sir, you don't want to be walled by the likes of Tyranitar, Heatran, or Nattorei in Rain.
 
Don't think so.
It isn't that great actually, redundant coverage with STABs. Being outsped by just about every other dragon is meh too...

It'll still probably go Uber because 660 BST is like an automatic ticket for Ubers.
 

Mario With Lasers

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Well, you can use it in Ubers if you want to, being good/bad there has no bearing on its status as an OU pokémon (which he probably will be until it gets something like Snow Warning or No Guard Sheer Cold).
 

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
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Why don't you actually run some speed so that he can outspeed even Scarfers next turn? Or better yet, double speed sweepers like Doryuuzu and Kingdra. PO has Frozen World registered as -2, so Kyu can 2HKO just about anything under the safety of a Sub. Can't for the life of me think why you'd need 200-something HP when Kyu's already naturally bulky to take about the same kinds of attacks, set up on the same Pokemon, and get beaten by the things he can't handle (Chansey, Blissey, etc.) However, I can think of plenty of reasons to run speed....

Also, keep Focus Blast my good sir, you don't want to be walled by the likes of Tyranitar, Heatran, or Nattorei in Rain.
Have you tried this set? I'm not sure how much exp you have with the popsicle dragon, but I noticed he had much more bulk with the HP EVs.

-2? Wha? What do you mean? Frozen world is always -1 for me.

I'm never sure how much speed to run. Is timid worth it? Does anyone use adamant on their scarfers (garchomp, jirachi ect.) or should ky stick to modest? I always think that stuff like flygon runs 284 speed or something, and max speed base 80 scarfers exist, so I give kyurem 285 speed. I really have no idea though. Can someone shed some light please?
 
Have you tried this set? I'm not sure how much exp you have with the popsicle dragon, but I noticed he had much more bulk with the HP EVs.

-2? Wha? What do you mean? Frozen world is always -1 for me.

I'm never sure how much speed to run. Is timid worth it? Does anyone use adamant on their scarfers (garchomp, jirachi ect.) or should ky stick to modest? I always think that stuff like flygon runs 284 speed or something, and max speed base 80 scarfers exist, so I give kyurem 285 speed. I really have no idea though. Can someone shed some light please?
I don't think anyone uses a non +speed Scarfer as far as I know because they don't want to lose speed ties and 102 base speed Scarf outruns the max 100, 101s, and lower. I don't think it is worth a Timid nature unless you really fear base 95s + spd natures and +Atk/SAtk etc natures of base 109s and less. Modest gives it the most power.

You could choose a bulky or speedy spread of Kyurem depending on what you want Kyurem to do. Mixed and Choice will use at least 285 spd (outspeed +base 80s) while bulky can run little to no speed cause of screens. I don't know if it should run at least 240 speed like someone says to outspeed Breloom due to the fact that if Breloom sees Kyurem, I'd assume they'd try to Mach Punch you, not Spore (barring Choice Scarf which I don't know how common that is) and they'd probably be at least aware it has a much higher base speed and faster than Breloom. They don't want to risk it being Choice or Mixed with actual speed since Icebeam kills them easy if they don't at least do a massive hit with Mach Punch. It is interesting to note that even at min/min, Breloom Life Orb Technician Mach Punch won't ohko Kyurem at full health (which is just amazing).

+SAtk natures (Modest, Rash, etc) seem to be best.
 

November Blue

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I don't know if it should run at least 240 speed like someone says to outspeed Breloom
Heh, that's me.

Thanks fluff. I think that I'm going to stick to the set I posted above. Counters that find that they've switched into a frozen world get outsped more often than not, as serperior (max 357) is the fastest nonscarved pokemon I see in competitive play.
 
um, why would you want to outspeed breloom with kyurem? TechniLoom will run Mach Punch, which will override the speed difference and SubPuncher will have to safely set up a substitute to have any hope of being able to hurt Kyurem. Even if you don't outspeed, you'll still be breaking his substitutes which is enough.
 

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
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Most nonscarfed pokemon hit with frozen world will have less that 240 speed. Outspeeding rare stuff like alakazam, starmie and azelf isn't crucial. Breloom can't KO with mach punch. What if it tries to spore you?
 
Most nonscarfed pokemon hit with frozen world will have less that 240 speed. Outspeeding rare stuff like alakazam, starmie and azelf isn't crucial. Breloom can't KO with mach punch. What if it tries to spore you?
Then you are sol. If breloom spores anything you're sol
 
Why has no one suggested substitute. Its perfect with its massive hp and can use an appropriate move to attack. Seismic toss wont be breaking Kyuremu's subs.
 

ginganinja

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I tested a phaser set with D-Tail and it works o.k with its defences. Its a nice user of dual screens as well.
 
Again, I really don't like the idea of something with attack stats that high taking turns to set up screens. Sure it can do it, but that's most likely wasting it's potential. Let something else set up screens like Uxie or something and let Kyurem lay waste behind them.
 

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