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Lati@s Discussion Thread

Well, Luster Purge does have a 50% chance to lower special defense, so 2 Luster Purges with the first one getting the drop will do more than 2 consecutive Psychics with no drops:

70 + 140 = 210
90 + 90 = 180

LR.
 
Luster Purge just sounds sexy... and unique, but yeah its a bad option for reasons already mentioned.

Originally Posted by Shiny Crobat
Psychic isn't worth mentioning at all by the way.
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Why all the hatred toward's Psychic? I'm constantly defending it as a move option and shouldn't have to. If Latios uses Draco Meteor and Surf, it is already hitting all of OU for neutral damage (fuck Empoleon). So how does that make Psychic a bad option? It's actually a damn good option because it opens up a few super effective options. For the all out attacker.... it uses Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse, Surf, HP Fire, Psychic. Look at that type coverage??!!!! How is Psychic a bad move on that set?
 
Luster Purge could potentially work on a Specs set, but the damage is not reliable enough. If you don't get the drop Psychic would have done way more damage. And you likely don't want to leave Latios in against a switch-in anyway, so with the hit and run nature of Specs Psychic would usually be the superior choice.

I don't think Psychic has much room regardless. Draco Meteor is pretty much a given, HP Fire is quite necessary for Steels, and that leaves 2 slots. Surf appears to be a popular option, especially with Lati@s being such good Heatran switch-ins (although repeated hits will hurt). That leaves one slot for whatever else you think you would need, and I think people would lean towards Dragon Pulse for reliable sweeping with better coverage than Psychic.
 
Legacy Raider said:
Well, Luster Purge does have a 50% chance to lower special defense, so 2 Luster Purges with the first one getting the drop will do more than 2 consecutive Psychics with no drops:

70 + 140 = 210
90 + 90 = 180

LR.
Click to expand...

That would be,

70 + 105 = 175
90 + 90 = 180

, wouldn't it? And that's best case vs. worst case.
 
Average power of a "second psychic" would be 90*0.9 + 135*0.1, no? 90% of the time it'll be a regular base-90 attack, while 10% of the time, sp.def will have dropped one stage, which makes their sp. def 2/3 of what it was, which makes your damage 1.5 what it was. So second turn psychic averages 94.5, while second turn Luster Purge is 70*.5 + 105*.5, which is 87.5, still weaker than even the first psychic.

So two turns psychic = 90 + 94.5 = 184.5
2 turns luster purge = 70 + 87.5 = 157.5
 
RaikouLover said:
(fuck Empoleon).
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This upset me a little...

But! The SpDef drop doesn't matter if you have something like a blissey out that can PP stall with Protect and Wish effectively making your secondary STAB gone. So why waste that slot with a very low PP move when you can use a move with twice the PP and 20 more BP?

Just seems silly
 
Latias might make a good counter to several top tier threats as well, what with its typing and all. Gyarados and Infernape spring to mind.

Anyone think a DDLatios set will work, or just end up getting overshadowed by Mence?
 
i will personally be testing a DD earthquake, HP fire, draco meteor @life orb set when i have the chance. i dont exactly how well it will work, but it beats the top 3 100% of the time
 
diamondfan1910 said:
Latias might make a good counter to several top tier threats as well, what with its typing and all. Gyarados and Infernape spring to mind.

Anyone think a DDLatios set will work, or just end up getting overshadowed by Mence?
Click to expand...

ultimifier said:
i will personally be testing a DD earthquake, HP fire, draco meteor @life orb set when i have the chance. i dont exactly how well it will work, but it beats the top 3 100% of the time
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i have a Mild Latios i'm training to have Outrage / Earthquake / Dragon Dance / Draco Meteor
and with Life Orb as well.

i think a Hasty/Naive or Naughty/Lonely would work a bit better though and Levitate zong and Skarm will still give him trouble, but he can fire off draco meteors without wanting to switch out from the stat drop
 
Tbh, most physical sets seem very gimmicky. DD could work though is very dependant on the surprise factor and won't work too well if you play the same opponent more than once. CB Latios can make an excellent Blissey lure too, though you're probably better off using something else for that.
 
No, Latios physical sets are NOT gimmicky. Sure, they are inferior in sheer power to Dragonite and Salamence, but that is beside the point. Look at the most common counters to Lati@:

Bronzong / Scizor / Metagross / Tyranitar / Blissey

Now, if your Latios were to Dragon Dance on the switch, you take out Metagross, Tyranitar and Blissey ALL in one hit (Blissey is OHKOed by +1 Outrage...). If you are running HP Fire, add Scizor to that list. Sure, it might pale in comparision to the other Dragons in sweeping, but you have to consider what you will lure in, and what you can defeat. There are plenty of pokemon would would thoroughly enjoy seeing 4 out of those 5 pokemon taken out, namely any special sweeper for the last 2.

So in conclusion, a Dragon Dance Latios set of:

Dragon Dance, Outrage, Earthquake, HP Fire / Draco Meteor isn't very gimmicky at all. Especially when you consider that after they get alerted to the physical nature of the set, you can blast that Hippowdon into oblivion with a Draco Meteor. Salamence doesn't lure out the same pokemon, which is what you must think about before making such a judgement like this. So while DD Latios isn't the best at pure sweeping, it will be a FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC lure for several specific pokemon.
 
I stand by what I said. The surprise factor is all it has going for it. Once your opponent has played you at least once before, you've lost any element of surprise and bar the superior SpD/Speed, which I guess is pretty helpful, Salamence pulls off that set considerably better.
 
On the subject of Latias fitting into the metagame, a support set like this might work:

Latias @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP/60 Def/108 SpA/32 SpD/56 Spe
~Wish/Recover
~Surf
~Thunderbolt
~Psychic/Grass Knot/Dragon Pulse/Protect/Calm Mind

The healing move prolongs lifespan, and should be chosen based on whether you want Latias to be a team player, or a counter. Personally though, I'd go for Wish.

Surf hits Heatran hard, and Latias makes a great counter to Heatran unless he's stuck on Dragon Pulse with Specs (although unspecs Dragon Pulses will 3HKO). Grass Knot could be used in its place, but I think that Latias is such a great Heatran counter with Surf it's a shame to waste it. Thunderbolt is mainly for Gyarados and bulky Waters that try to come in and wall Latias whilst firing off Ice Beams. She can easily take Ice Beams despite their Super Effectiveness, taking at most 44% from the standard 299 SpA Timid Starmie. The final move is for coverage; Psychic hits Heracross and other fighters hard, and it's useful for Machamp. Grass Knot hits T-tar, Hippo and Donphan harder than Surf and many bulky Waters harder than T-bolt, although with Surf and T-bolt its coverage is inferior. Dragon Pulse provides Latias with an attack to hit everything neutral with, as nothing resits Water/Electric/Dragon except Shedinja. Protect deserves a mention because it allows you to heal with Wish. Calm Mind also deserves a mention, but in general a sweeping set with more Speed would be more suited to Calm Mind's stat upping graces.

The EVs are quite specific. Max HP helps take the most hits. 60 Defence EVs garuntees that a once-DD'd Gyarados will never 2HKO with Stone Edge, which is its most powerful option against Latias barring Ice Fang. 108 Special Attack EVs is needed to garuntee the OHKO against 4 HP/0 SpDef Gyarados with Thunderbolt, and it gives the rest of her attacks more bite as well. 56 Speed hits the magic 270 mark; just ahead of Heracross. The remaining 32 EVs are in Special Defence to help take weak Ice Beams and the like.

Latias is a good counter to several top tier threats, which is what I tried to go for here. This particular Latias is a great counter to your standard Gyarados, Heatran, Heracross (-Megahorn), Infernape, Starmie and Bulky Waters/Grounds. However, it can't counter some of the very biggest threats in Tyranitar and Salamence. The same sort of set can work on Latios, but Latias is bulkier and gets Wish.
 
Ah, noted. You can take 32 EVs from Sp.Def to Speed, but I'm concerned where the remaining 8 should come from. Probably SpA; there's still a massive OHKO chance.

Unfortunately even with Max Defence, +1 Ice Fang will always OHKO. However, Latias can live through 2 unboosted Ice Fangs. Around 120 Defence EVs garuntees that she'll live through two Ice Fangs with Stealth Rock and Leftovers factored in, as well.
 
diamondfan1910 said:
Unfortunately even with Max Defence, +1 Ice Fang will always OHKO.
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Latias?

Max Def/HP Bold Latias vs +1 Dragon Dance Adamant, max Attack Gyarados:

Ice Fang does- 48.35%-57.14%

With a Life Orb- 62.64%-74.18%

Now, using your spread:

Ice Fang does- 74.18%-87.36%

Without a Life Orb- 57.14%-67.58%

I think that's a 2HKO...
 
Meh, it'll be fun to have some new pokes to play with in OU.

They do seem a little overpowered thou, mainly due to Good defenses, a good ability, as well as recover.
 
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