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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
Stockpile Numel is a beast tbh. It's better to run it with a water absorber and a flying/levitating Pokemon. (Mantyne is immune to both of Numel's double-weaknesses, and Numel is immune to Mantyke's double-weakness, so they compliment each other.)
Chinchou really kills this core, which is a problem since it is so common. Stockpile Numel sounds pretty fun though
Proposing a few changes due to the bans:
Remove Murkrow
Remove Meditite
Wynaut B->C
Trubbish B->A
Wynaut isn't going to be near as effective on teams since it will have to be pivoted in now to take care of the threats it wants. I guess it could stay B, but I feel like the rest of B now has better uses than Wynaut.
Trubbish lost two of its biggest threats, and should move up to A. It is an extremely effective wall/spike stacker with Knock Off flying everywhere, but it also setup fodder for a lot of top threats.
Remove Murkrow
Remove Meditite
Wynaut B->C
Trubbish B->A
Wynaut isn't going to be near as effective on teams since it will have to be pivoted in now to take care of the threats it wants. I guess it could stay B, but I feel like the rest of B now has better uses than Wynaut.
Trubbish lost two of its biggest threats, and should move up to A. It is an extremely effective wall/spike stacker with Knock Off flying everywhere, but it also setup fodder for a lot of top threats.
Depends really. Switch into Mantyke on predicted scalds and Numel on predicted Volt Switches. Also I've ended up killing Chinchous before on the switch with Flame Charge then Earth Power.
Foongus may go up to A, now that murkrow is gone. Regen cores have proved to be effective in the past and Spore is great now that the only notable non-grass sleep immunity belongs to vullaby. Meditite being banned is also a boon since it was the only fighting type Foongus couldn't wall.
The chinchou can outpredict and uses scald on a numel switch in or volt switch on a mantyke switch in. No one is going to leave their mantyke in on a chinchou anyway so its an easy prediction to make. I'll have to try Numel out now with the Murkrow and Meditite gone.
I agree with wyanut, it's not nearly as good in theory without the ability to kill meditite. However, Trubbish has the problem of being walled hard by ghosts on its most common set, and also of being trapped and killed by diglett. In addition, one of the better spinners in the tier, Drilbur, can OHKO it easily with STAB earthquake. It's good, but not A-rank material.
wynaut ill let it stick there for a while because i dont exactly agree with it being worthless yet. lets see how the metagame shifts
TRUBBISH THOUGH i dont agree with at all. its just too easily taken advantage of in the end. it does what it does by supporting the team, but there are wya too many things that can use it as setup fodder and if the less popular things like houndour start becoming more popular due to murkrow and tites bans, it wont be getting any better
Foongus to A pls
It makes a phenomenal pivot due to Regenerator and really nice defensive typing, allowing it to wall a variety of threats throughout the match. Spore is, of course, very nice, especially considering how the other dominant grass-type, Cottonee, is hit hard by Sludge Bomb; with Murkrow gone, Spore is more spammable than ever (provided Vullaby is taken out of the picture). Pawniard is hardly a safe switch-in thanks to Hidden Power Fighting, since offensive switch-ins like Fletchling don't really enjoy Sludge Bomb so Stun Spore isn't all that necessary. Although Foongus might lose its Eviolite sort of quickly, being able to wall most fighting-types, especially since Timburr hardly ever runs Ice Punch anymore, is a nice niche.
Also Doduo for B or C rank pls
Brave Bird hits like a truck coming off base 85 attack, as we saw with Murkrow. If a LO set is run, Quick Attack hits frailer Pokemon really hard, making it a decent-revenge-killer. 75 Speed isn't too shabby, allowing it to outspeed most walls, and possibly attempt all-out sweeps with a Choice Scarf or Sticky Web support thanks to the sheer power of Brave Bird. STAB Return is also nice, almost always 2HKOing 76/212+ Chinchou, and in conjunction with Knock Off to ruin the Eviolites of switch-ins (or have a 75% chance of OHKOing Misdreavus after Stealth Rock if Life Orb is run), Doduo is a good wall-breaker. It does have a major weakness in its frailty, however, something a weakness to Stealth Rock compounds.
Also I still think Shellos should be placed in C rank or something
It makes a phenomenal pivot due to Regenerator and really nice defensive typing, allowing it to wall a variety of threats throughout the match. Spore is, of course, very nice, especially considering how the other dominant grass-type, Cottonee, is hit hard by Sludge Bomb; with Murkrow gone, Spore is more spammable than ever (provided Vullaby is taken out of the picture). Pawniard is hardly a safe switch-in thanks to Hidden Power Fighting, since offensive switch-ins like Fletchling don't really enjoy Sludge Bomb so Stun Spore isn't all that necessary. Although Foongus might lose its Eviolite sort of quickly, being able to wall most fighting-types, especially since Timburr hardly ever runs Ice Punch anymore, is a nice niche.
Also Doduo for B or C rank pls
Brave Bird hits like a truck coming off base 85 attack, as we saw with Murkrow. If a LO set is run, Quick Attack hits frailer Pokemon really hard, making it a decent-revenge-killer. 75 Speed isn't too shabby, allowing it to outspeed most walls, and possibly attempt all-out sweeps with a Choice Scarf or Sticky Web support thanks to the sheer power of Brave Bird. STAB Return is also nice, almost always 2HKOing 76/212+ Chinchou, and in conjunction with Knock Off to ruin the Eviolites of switch-ins (or have a 75% chance of OHKOing Misdreavus after Stealth Rock if Life Orb is run), Doduo is a good wall-breaker. It does have a major weakness in its frailty, however, something a weakness to Stealth Rock compounds.
Also I still think Shellos should be placed in C rank or something
I think it goes without saying that with the ban of Meditite and Murkrow, the original post needs to be updated as soon as possible. Just making sure we are remembering that. I wonder what pokemon will move with them being gone as well. I expect Trubbish to (possibly) move up being able to check fighting types even better with the big Psychic one gone.
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Definitely agree with Foongus and Doduo noms, idk about Trubbish moving up because imo, Misdreavus was/is more of a problem for it than Tite. Anyways, I'd like to nominate Diglett for B rank if only for how well it pairs with U-turn Fletchling, and it just makes a lot of mons harder to use (like Trubbish) because of the threat of a double switch to it. I'd also support Taillow for B rank, but idk how others feel about that.
Frillish really should be higher to be honest. Scarfed water spout wrecks mostly everything that doesn't resist it. It outclasses Wailmer imo because it can trick away its scarf plus has an immunity to fake out, aqua jet, mach punch, quick attack, extremespeed, and resists bullet punch + has access to trick and an overall better movepool. You can trick on a sucker punch prediction, and shadow sneak isn't that common. You can switch into a predicted water attack and energy ball/giga drain it. Will-o-wisp works, too, even for a scarf set. Thoughts?
MrAshtonMeyers, I think you're looking at your suggestions in too much of a vacuum. For instance, Foongus is in no way S, because its ability to support the team is severely hampered by its reliability on knock off and its weakness to flying. Compare this to something like Misdreavus who has excellent bulk, dangerous sweeping capabilities, an excellent support movepool, and an amazing speed tier. Its bulk means that its main weakness, Knock Off, doesn't hamper it enough to push it out of S rank. I think a lot if the mons you suggested would be good candidates for a + rank when we get around too it, but for now they're good where they are.
Frillish's main problem is that it is so slow and not particularly physically bulky. You mentioned a scarf water spout set, but if rocks are up, eviolite Pawniard counters it, and scarf Pawniard checks it, 100% of the time. Even if Water Spout is at full 150 base power, 0/0 eviolite Pawniard is only OHKOed 6.3% of the time, and always OHKOs with sucker punch. In addition, it isn't the greatest move type to spam, due to the ability of both Lileep and Croagunk to come in and benefit from the attack. In addition, Frillish would only be able to do a "nuke" once or twice.
For switching in, it does have opportunities due to the handy resistances to fighting and normal, but the water resistance is almost a non-factor. In the top three tiers, only Slowpoke, Staryu, Carvanha, Tirtouga, and Chinchou would be using water type moves on any consistent basis, and of them, Slowpoke can thunder wave and essentially make scarf Frillish dead weight for the rest of the match, Carvanha and Chinchou both have an alternate STAB that does a lot of damage to Frillish, if it doesn't OHKO it, and Tirtouga will outspeed at +2 and OHKO with rock STAB. Staryu is the only safe option, and even it 2HKO's with TBolt.
Frillish has a niche, absolutely, but it remains a niche. C rank is best for it.
My tiering suggestion is that Munchlax move up to A-rank. With Meditite, who pulverized it into a fat pile of fat, gone, Munchlax is able to come into its own as the bulkiest thing in the tier once again. With only Timburr, Mienfoo, Scraggy, and Croagunk as fighting type threats, three of whom hate paralysis from body slam, and are unable to OHKO at +0 with anything short of adamant Mienfoo's High Jump Kick on the bulkier sets, Munchlax is able to wall most things. It can become the bulkiest thing ever with Eviolite, or go the reliable recovery route of Berry Juice, and either way special attackers have no real hope of breaking through it.
On a completely different note, as of Kappaten's post we now have 500 posts for the thread, which is a lot
EDIT: I gotta learn to read better.
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The biggest buff I've noticed with Murkrow and Meditite gone is Croagunk. I've played a bunch of games on the ladder today where it matches up well against 4 or 5 of my opponent's Pokemon. I'm not saying it should move from A to S, but it's definitely one of the top things in A with two of its nemeses gone.
Croagunk did benefit a lot from this ban and I also agree with this statement. Thanks to Kro and Tite leaving, Croagunk is now becoming a borderline S-Rank Pokemon and is definitely a bigger threat in this meta.
I am literally rofling so hard right now. For one, Munchlax is in no way A rank material. At all. It loses to Pawniard, Misdreavus, Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, and random Knock Offs. It is NOT the bulkiest pokemon at all, and it is literal garbage.
Croagunk is in no way S material. It simply fulfills its niche, like it did last generation. A tier at best. Please actually suggest legit things to bump up to S tier.....
Croagunk is in no way S material. It simply fulfills its niche, like it did last generation. A tier at best. Please actually suggest legit things to bump up to S tier.....
No, BW LC's Viability Rankings had over 600 posts. U gotta read better :@
Scraggy For S: Doduo used brave bird!, spritzee used moonblast!, Snubbull used play rough!, Drifloon used acrobatics!, fletchling used acrobatics!, Starly used brave bird!, Mienfoo used Drain Punch!, timburr used drain punch! Uhm yeah no it can't sweep that easily m8
Foongus for a: pretty much the same problem+knock off buff means it can't switch into powerful neutral attacks or any decently hard-hitting SE attacks.
Bunny for A: I can get behind this. It isn't the new meditite, but it's almost as powerful, sporting a hard hitting return and a good speed w/ a choice scarf. Only really hard walled my missy, and even then it can switch out w/ u-turn
Bunny For S: no
I'd say the major reason I can't see Scraggy in S-tier is due to Fairy-types and Fletchling. Fairies really put any Scraggy sweep on hold and can easily KO with 4x supereffective moves. Fletch with priority Acrobtics can also end a sweep of any Scraggy that has suffered some damage or has lost its Eviolite and can easily check the Scarf set due to the lack of Eviolite to begin with.
Don't really have much of an opinion on the other suggestions, I could see Bunnelby in A-rank, but still not convinced.
Don't really have much of an opinion on the other suggestions, I could see Bunnelby in A-rank, but still not convinced.
I would like to nominate
(the realest nigga) for B rank.
With Murkrow and Meditite out of the tier, Fighters have gotten yet another boost >_>. However, no need to fear, we still have Psychic types and Fairies :D
Wait wait wait let me check again.
Oh yeah, there's only like one Fairy in the tier (meh, whatev Snubbull) and Psychic types fall prey to 2 monsters that have also been buffed by the recent bans, Misdreavus and Pawniard (Fairies lose to Pawniard too, so yeah .-.). It seems like there is no hope for the world D:
but wait, there is a final hope :o
Doduo wrecks so much shit, it's not even funny. Don't resist Brave Bird? Get Rekted. Resist Brave Bird? Get Knocked Off/Rekted by Return. It's Murkrow 2.0 and it destroys so much stuff. Let's just see how it fares vs S-Tier and A-Tier.
So, out of S-tier and A-Tier, I found 2 solid "counters". Tirt winsunless new meta HP Grass, Pawn can actually legit lose.
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 4-5 (19 - 23.8%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Pawn at minimum 75% health after SR and Knock Off
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah, BB + Quick Attack (it is faster than pawn) kills. Even things that should check Doduo, such as Magnemite, Chinchou, Ponyta, Spritzee, and freaking Pawniard (read, resists all of Doduo's moves), freaking lose. This thing has so much power. And for those who don't know, this thing has the same Attack as Murkrow. Same Attack of Murkrow + Knock Off, that is. With Knock Off, it legit has a niche over Fletch and can easily break walls. The only really bad thing about Doduo is that it has non-existent bulk and just falls short of 19 Speed tier. These really suck, as most moves destroy it. It's STABs also aren't the best, which kinda sucks. However, when a Flying type beats Chinchou and Magnemite with no effort, you know it will fuck your shit up.
I would even maybe nom it for A, but someone else can do that, B is a good start.
KACAW ;~;
With Murkrow and Meditite out of the tier, Fighters have gotten yet another boost >_>. However, no need to fear, we still have Psychic types and Fairies :D
Wait wait wait let me check again.
Oh yeah, there's only like one Fairy in the tier (meh, whatev Snubbull) and Psychic types fall prey to 2 monsters that have also been buffed by the recent bans, Misdreavus and Pawniard (Fairies lose to Pawniard too, so yeah .-.). It seems like there is no hope for the world D:
but wait, there is a final hope :o
Doduo wrecks so much shit, it's not even funny. Don't resist Brave Bird? Get Rekted. Resist Brave Bird? Get Knocked Off/Rekted by Return. It's Murkrow 2.0 and it destroys so much stuff. Let's just see how it fares vs S-Tier and A-Tier.
S-Rank
: ._______.
: Rekt'd by Knock Off
: Looks like it hard walls, until you see this :OOOO 0 SpA Life Orb Doduo Hidden Power Fighting vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 21-26 (91.3 - 113%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Thats right, gets rekt'd
A-Rank
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Carvanha: 13-17 (68.4 - 89.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes, ehh
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 10-13 (41.6 - 54.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Then Doduo switches out, next time it switches in and Chin has to come back in
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Chinchou: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not even a good check
: .________.
: .________.
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Drilbur: 19-23 (86.3 - 104.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Outplay coinflip imo
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Dwebble: 21-25 (95.4 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Too much power
: 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Doduo: 16-21 (80 - 105%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 9-12 (42.8 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Considering you outspeed, you win 1v1.
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 13-16 (68.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 9-12 (47.3 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
O_o If it switches in, it loses
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Ponyta: 17-21 (70.8 - 87.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Lol Coinflip
: .________.
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 13-17 (48.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 19-23 (70.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Doduo: 13-16 (65 - 80%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Meh, I guess it wins, but only 1 Knock Off and 2 Switches into SR = Ded Perfume Burd.
: ._______.
: 252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tirtouga: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Meh, it wins.
Thats right, gets rekt'd
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the LC metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.
Then Doduo switches out, next time it switches in and Chin has to come back in
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Chinchou: 13-16 (54.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not even a good check
Outplay coinflip imo
Too much power
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 92 Def Fletchling: 9-12 (42.8 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Considering you outspeed, you win 1v1.
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnemite: 9-12 (47.3 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
O_o If it switches in, it loses
Lol Coinflip
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Spritzee: 19-23 (70.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Doduo: 13-16 (65 - 80%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Meh, I guess it wins, but only 1 Knock Off and 2 Switches into SR = Ded Perfume Burd.
Meh, it wins.
So, out of S-tier and A-Tier, I found 2 solid "counters". Tirt wins
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 4-5 (19 - 23.8%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Pawn at minimum 75% health after SR and Knock Off
252 Atk Life Orb Doduo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Pawniard: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yeah, BB + Quick Attack (it is faster than pawn) kills. Even things that should check Doduo, such as Magnemite, Chinchou, Ponyta, Spritzee, and freaking Pawniard (read, resists all of Doduo's moves), freaking lose. This thing has so much power. And for those who don't know, this thing has the same Attack as Murkrow. Same Attack of Murkrow + Knock Off, that is. With Knock Off, it legit has a niche over Fletch and can easily break walls. The only really bad thing about Doduo is that it has non-existent bulk and just falls short of 19 Speed tier. These really suck, as most moves destroy it. It's STABs also aren't the best, which kinda sucks. However, when a Flying type beats Chinchou and Magnemite with no effort, you know it will fuck your shit up.
I would even maybe nom it for A, but someone else can do that, B is a good start.
KACAW ;~;
I have no idea as to why the hell the almighty HELIX GOD is still in C rank. Flying types are actually becoming more common (see: Doduo and Fletchling) as Fighting types have received a massive boon in the new bans. It's actually able to take weak hits after a Shell Smash due to Eviolite and having not shitty defences, and its coverage is pretty good. Look, I know I'm not doing HELIX any justice with this small-ass post, but we all know how scary it is to deal with, plus it's 2 am and I took my seroquel today. tbh though, I think we can all agree it's worthy of at least B rank, considering Omanyte is far from a niche Pokemon. I think it really is at least B worthy.
Edit: Was gonna mention Doduo tomorrow but shaymin :D beat me to it. Yeah, it's a monster, and really its BB hits as hard as Krow's did.
Edit: Was gonna mention Doduo tomorrow but shaymin :D beat me to it. Yeah, it's a monster, and really its BB hits as hard as Krow's did.
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Scraggy: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Why is Diglett still C rank? So far in the current meta, it has already proven itself to be a capable force. It has 20 Speed and Arena Trap, meaning it can eliminate defensive threats to your team with its Life Orb-boosted attacks. It also has Sucker Punch for priority, allowing it to revenge kill weakened priority attackers such as Bunnelby or Fletchling. It also forms an incredible offensive core with the aforementioned bird, being able to trap and eliminate most of the Pokemon that resist its Acrobatics. It can support its team in more ways than just trapping, though - it has the fastest Stealth Rock in the tier, and it can run Memento to aid a sweep. All these qualities make me think Diglett deserves B Rank.
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