Leads

[YAYtears]

Even after the introduction of team preview some players constantly send out the same pokemon as their lead, especially if their team is offensive. I decided to explore on this concept of a lead by looking at the usage statistics. I then used this formula to find out how often a certain pokemon is used as a lead.

lead usage/total usage

Ideally with team preview each pokemon should lead 16.67% of the time.

For example, from the November statistics
Deoxys-s 49519 times led/73245 times used = 67.61%
This tells us that deoxys-s is constantly being chosen as a lead over 2/3 of the time it was used. I usually put leads in 3 categories, hazard, weather, and offensive, and some leads actually fit in both categories.

Hazard

Lead rate 3007/5392 = 55.77%

Deoxys-D carries great 160 base defenses and few exposed weaknesses, as well as carrying both stealth rock and spikes. So, why is this lead most often seen on offensive teams? Part of this is the banning of Deoxys-S. Once the fastest spiker was gone, people were looking at its other forme, which still had a decent 90 speed. With speed investment and a positive nature, it can still taunt on many of the threats deoxys-s would, and it didn't need a focus sash either.

Weather

Lead rate 39725/79826 = 45.76%

Politoed is being used as a lead commonly because it can set up rain, which can support the rest of the team, powering hydro pumps and making hurricanes 100% accurate. It also has only 2 weaknesses, and it can run a variety of sets, including bulky, specs, scarf, and chestorest. It also doesn't sit there and do nothing either. It carries decent support moves like toxic and perish song, as well as abusing its own drizzle boost with hydro pumps.

Lead rate 28656/94297 = 30.39%

Tyranitar is also being used as a lead to set up sandstorm, like politoed. It gets monstrous bulk due to sandstorm and its base 100 hp stat too. It has access to Stealth rock, and like politoed, can run a multitude of sets. Boah, scarf, band, and bulky mixed attacker. It also functions as a trapper for latios and latias.

Offensive

Lead rate 35619/108109 = 39.95%

Rotom-W has a favorable match up against most rain teams and sand teams with its dual STABs. It can carry choice scarf to outspeed other offensive leads or choice specs to beat bulky leads like tyranitar. It also has only one weakness too. Perhaps the best reason its used so much is its access to volt switch, because it has the ability to scout the lead and switch out to the appropriate counter.

Lead rate 8731/18017 = 48.46%

Mienshao has amazing offensive capabilities with life orb and a 130 base power Hi Jump Kick. It also has access to fake out if you want to use it as a lead to break sashes. It has a good 105 base speed and with u-turn and regeneration, it can constantly be in the field and help you scout. If mienshao can outspeed the opponent's lead there are very few risks with sending it out.

Honorable Mentions

Lead rate 3577/13626 = 26.25%

Sabelye has no weaknesses and has access to priority taunt, giving it the advantage against hazard leads. With priority will o wisp it can cripple physical leads like mienshao, tyranitar, and landorus. With some investment, it can take multiple hits too.

So, in this thread, we should discuss

• How common are "lead" pokemon in a metagame with team preview?
• What kinds of lead pokemon exist?
• What qualities do lead pokemon have in common

 

[Nix_Hex]

In light of recent discussion in the Team Preview thread, I'm really glad someone made a thread about this! Deoxys-D's base 90 Speed is pretty neat for such a defensive Pokemon, a rarity, especially considering the support it offers from the get-go. Also, Rotom-W is a prime example of how Team Preview has changed the way we look at leads. It can do so much in the lead position; it can burn something with Will-O-Wisp, gain some momentum with Volt Switch, use Trick, take advantage of an opposing Politoed's rain with an almighty Hydro Pump, sky's the limit! Sableye is pretty annoying to face in any position, though I haven't seen too much as a lead. Let's just say that I'd be willing to lead with Tyranitar even if I see my opponent has a Sableye.

I'm surprised you didn't put Ninetales in the weather category. If you are running a Sun team and your opponent has no auto weather or obvious weather changers, you can easily gain the upper hand by leading with Ninetales, paving the way for your sun sweepers.

I'll look at this in more detail in the morning, time to get some rest.

 

[Metal Bagon]

Justing want to point something out...

Lead rate 39725/79826 = 45.76%

Politoed is being used as a lead commonly because it can set up rain, which can support the rest of the team, powering hydro pumps and making hurricanes 100% accurate. It also has only 2 weaknesses, and it can run a variety of sets, including bulky, specs, scarf, and chestorest. It also doesn't sit there and do nothing either. It carries decent support moves like toxic and perish song, as well as abusing its own drizzle boost with hydro pumps.

coughthundercough

Also it may be worth mentioning Ninetales on the weather front and maybe another pokemon on the hazards lead front (i.e. Fortress, maybe even Azelf).

 

[Taylor]

Mamoswine deserves a mention as its coverage and access to Stealth Rock allows you to take advantage of it forcing their Rotom-W/Scizor to lead against it. Endevour is a good reason to not aimlessly try to OHKO it when you're slower and risk essentially losing a Pokemon that could prove costly later on.

Hippowdon may not be sand's first choice because it isn't as offensively orientated to work in tandem with many Pokemon who thrive in such a weather, as Tyranitar does. but he is likely to set up Stealth Rock and phaze remarkably well or spread some Toxic status with ease; considering his above average defenses and access to Slack Off.

 

[Techniloom]

Hey what about Screen's? Now that Deoxy's got the boot (which i completely disagree but that's neither the time nor the place) Azelf has stepped in to be the new fastest suicide screen's lead with stealth rocks.

 

[Nova]

Dragonite lead, either DD or CB is a great offensive lead to immediately put pressure on the opponent

 

[typon77]

Just a minor nitpick, Deoxys-D has base 160 defenses, not 150...

 

[Katakiri]

These are two of my all-time favorite leads which are also very underrated.

Gigalith (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Frustration
- Explosion

This guy is massively comparable to Lead Dragonite but in the best way possible. Nothing will ever OHKO this guy bar Technician Breloom due to Sturdy and his high defense making most Multi-hit moves useless whereas Dragonite has to worry about other Dragons, Gigalith has nothing to worry about. Sandstorm just makes him even harder to take down. Not only does he have the highest Attack stat of all Sturdy holders, but he also gets Explosion. Even with the nerf, when you're firing off a 250 Power move from 607 Attack Stat, even Pokemon that resist it are taking upwards of 80% from this bastard. Oh and he has Stealth Rock...if you want it.

One way or another, he's leaving his mark on the battle. Even if it is just a smoldering crater.

Explosion Calcs for shits & giggles

252 Atk Choice Band Gigalith Explosion vs 252 HP/0 Def Politoed: 151.82% - 178.91%

252 Atk Choice Band Gigalith Explosion vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon: 70.24% - 82.86%

252 Atk Choice Band Gigalith Explosion vs 54 HP/0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 71.43% - 84.23%

252 Atk Choice Band Gigalith Explosion vs 4 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 67.25% - 79.24%

252 Atk Choice Band Gigalith Explosion vs 252 HP/4 Def Ferrothorn: 51.42% - 60.8%

Zoroark (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower / Focus Blast

*copy & paste* I run this Scarf Zoroark set which almost always is disguised as Celebi but I switch the order of my ENTIRE team around so my opponent would never know who it's appearing as since Celebi & Zoroark both appear in the middle of my team in preview. Celebi encourages Scarf Landorus to stay in & U-turn, letting Zoroark OHKO it with HP Ice. Zoroark U-turning against a Rotom-W reveals if it's Scarfed or not as if it stays in, I KNOW it's Scarfed & using Volt Switch so I can go out to my Ground-type & get Rocks up for free as Rotom's forced to switch-out. You get the idea. Zoroark gains instant momentum for me.

 

[alphatron]

Justing want to point something out...



coughthundercough

Also it may be worth mentioning Ninetales on the weather front and maybe another pokemon on the hazards lead front (i.e. Fortress, maybe even Azelf).

Nope, ninetales is not worth mentioning as a lead because it is an awful one. Since it outspeeds all of the other weather starters, you never want to lead with thing vs. enemy weather teams because unless their toed, tar, or snow is scarfed, they'll get rid of the sun and set up their own weather just because they're slower than you are. Leading with ninetales should only occur in rare scenarios where your opponent won't be able to net a free switch in to the multitude of pokemom who take advantage of it. With heatran everywhere, this will almost never happen even if you're facing a weather less team.

I will also second Taylor on mamoswine being an excellent lead.

 

[Katakiri]

Nope, ninetales is not worth mentioning as a lead because it is an awful one. Since it outspeeds all of the other weather starters, you never want to lead with thing vs. enemy weather teams because unless their toed, tar, or snow is scarfed, they'll get rid of the sun and set up their own weather just because they're slower than you are. Leading with ninetales should only occur in rare scenarios where your opponent won't be able to net a free switch in to the multitude of pokemom who take advantage of it. With heatran everywhere, this will almost never happen even if you're facing a weather less team.

I will also second Taylor on mamoswine being an excellent lead.

This. All of this.

Ninetales just awful. Even if your opponent doesn't have a weather starter, unless your team is 100% dependent on Sun, you're almost always better off getting Rocks up or preventing your opponent from getting theirs up turn 1 or even just scouting with a safe U-turn.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I don't know, I use it I would just throw ninetails out first against weatherless teams. I rarely had any problem unless they had something weird like hail on a random pokemon. Ninetails had some utility too as a lead with roar. Not the best lead, but might as well get it out there.

 

[Tenodera]

Gigalith (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Frustration
- Explosion

Rock Blast > Frustration IMO. Sub-breaking skills beat out the 2-BP nonsuicidal coverage on Ground types... Unless there's another use for it I'm overlooking.

I like leading Ferrothorn because its fairly unexpected and can so easily get a free turn against other leads (hazard leads especially). Against frailer teams Scarf Staraptor tends to be amazing also, since the opponent has to risk taking a 120 BP STAB or SE move if they don't want to be outmatched by U-Turn.

 

[Pippy]

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

How common are "lead" pokemon in a metagame with team preview? From my experience, designated "leads", like the ones in 4th gen are rather rare except on offensive teams. However, there are several Pokemon who serve other roles but can also serve as decent "leads". Two common ones would have to be Rotom-w and Scizor. The OP already touched on Rotom (basically it's good for leading against weather), but I think Scizor also deserves mention. Not only does it put immediate pressure on the opponent, but it also beats many common "true leads" (TTar, Azelf, Mamoswine, Deoxis-d, etc.)
What kinds of lead pokemon exist? Again, the OP pretty much covered this, but I think another category would be set-up leads. Some Pokemon, like Dragonite and Volcarona, can put immense pressure on the opponent from the get go. They can also set up fairly easily, as many leads struggle to eliminate them. (especially DNite thanks to Multiscale). Not only that, but they can also abuse the lack of hazards in the lead position. (again DNite and Volc)
What qualities do lead pokemon have in common?
-Pressure: Most leads need to put pressure on the opponents. This is fairly easy to accomplish, whether it be putting pressure offensively and forcing the opponent to make predictions (Scizor and Rotomw), threatening to lay down hazards or set up screens for a sweeper (Deoxis-d and Azelf), or even threaten to do massive damage with things like Explosion or Destiny Bond. (Azelf and Froslass)
-Speed: Most leads need speed to be successful. This help get that extra layer of hazards up, abuse your sash, or taunting the opponent to shut down their lead.
-Weather: Pretty obvious here. Most common leads set up weather that the rest of the team abuses.
-Hazards: Again, pretty obvious. Most leads are designed to set up leads, so having hazards is important.

I would go on, but I feel like I'm starting to ramble on, so I'll stop there.

 

[King Serperior]

I, as a long time sun player, use Scarf Landorus as a lead.

Why? As my Ninetales is in the "lead" position, that makes other weathers send out their starter. I U-Turn out and switch to a good counter as I am not taking out Ttar with an EQ just for him to switch in a Rotom :(

That is just the 2 cents of a sun player and his ideas of a lead.

 

[New World Order]

Definitely toss Choice Band Dragonite onto the list. It hits like a truck and ignores the whole Multi Scale being broken by SR thing on turn 1. Another Pokemon that is picking up popularity is Azelf, who is most commonly used as an SR+Taunt+U-turn lead or a Dual Screen lead.

 

[Sozane]

I, as a long time sun player, use Scarf Landorus as a lead.

Why? As my Ninetales is in the "lead" position, that makes other weathers send out their starter. I U-Turn out and switch to a good counter as I am not taking out Ttar with an EQ just for him to switch in a Rotom :(

That is just the 2 cents of a sun player and his ideas of a lead.

I've been playing sun for the past two or three weeks and I do pretty much the same, except with Specs Hydreigon. Most people seem unwilling to risk taking a Draco Meteor and they almost always end up in a worse position after I U-turn out.

 

[Scrawly]

I've been playing sun for the past two or three weeks and I do pretty much the same, except with Specs Hydreigon. Most people seem unwilling to risk taking a Draco Meteor and they almost always end up in a worse position after I U-turn out.

I generally use a Choice Scarf Infernape. Poor Ninetails, cursed with a decent base speed state, is forced to cede control of the weather to any other starter that wants it. The SR weakness doesn't help--it's more important for Sun teams to deal with enemy weather starters quickly than it is for sand or rain.
Interestingly enough, if I put Ninetails at the front of my party and switch Infernape to the front before every match, my opponents tend to assume that Infernape is geared to counter whatever they were using.

 

[Omnigross266]

Heatran@Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252SpA / 4SpD / 252Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power (Grass)
-Stealth Rock

This thing is brutal. I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned this yet. I generally place this in the middle of my team for Team Preview, and switch it to the front as a lead. Lots of people don't expect that, giving me a free turn to set up stealth rock while they switch (or blast off a Fire Blast, based on what I see on the Team Preview). This thing OHKOs and 2HKOs so much, its not funny. Some calcs:

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Earth Power vs 0HP/0SpDef Terrakion (Neutral): 94% - 111% (306 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. OHKO with SR.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Grass) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Gastrodon (+SpDef): 82% - 98% (352 - 420 HP). OHKO with SR.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 4HP/0SpDef Salamence (Neutral): 50% - 59% (168 - 198 HP). 2HKO with or without SR.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 212HP/0SpDef Leftovers Machamp (Neutral): 85% - 101% (319 - 378 HP). 2HKO with or without SR.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 112HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Rotom-W (Neutral): 49% - 57% (132 - 156 HP). 2HKO with SR. Good chance to 2HKO without SR.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Celebi (Neutral): 138% - 163% (560 - 662 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Earth Power vs 252HP/192SpDef Leftovers +1 Tyranitar (+SpDef): 35% - 41% (142 - 168 HP).

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/168SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 243% - 287% (856 - 1012 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252SpAtk Life Orb Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 252HP/224SpDef Jirachi (Neutral): 112% - 132% (456 - 536 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

The only real problem is Tyranitar, Salamence and Rotom-W, which, with Choice Scarf outspeeds and OHKOs with Hydro Pump.

 

[haunter]

Unfortunately all the Pokemon you listed that you can't OHKO will OHKO you in return while Jirachi and Ferrothorn won't stay in on Heatran anyway.

I find that scarf Landorus is an excellent "lead" when you can't predict a more favorable lead matchup.

 

[min min]

A fast U-turner or Volt Switcher is pretty useful as a lead in general, and things like Rotom-W can take out ground-types turn one if they decide to nab the momentum first and fail.

 

[Omnigross266]

The 'Bulky Attacker' Rotom-W (from Smogon's own competitive pokedex) which I used for the calcs has 144 EVs in speed and a Modest nature. This gives it 244 speed. The Heatran I run has 253 speed. Therefore, I outspeed and 2HKO it (mostly).

 

[Treadshot A1]

As much as it may be in the competitive pokedex, sadly the most common RotomW now is Scarfed, and as such will easily OHKO Heatran with Hydro Pump (short of a miss, but that's still having the odds stacked against Heatran).

Also a Scarfed RotomW has the option of using Volt Switch, as no player would leave Heatran in on Rotom. Even is you manage to hit with a attack, you can only 2HKO, which means Rotom will always have the time to Hydro Pump. Should you switch, the Volt Switch will only leave you in an even worse matchup unless Rotom happens to be the only counter they pack to your switch. Which is very unlikely.

Either way, that Heatran against a Rotom is not going to be a nice sight for you.

I'd just like to add this set:

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Regenerator
Naive 252 Atk/(I forget the speed and SpAtk EVs, off the top of my head 192 Speed and 60 SpAtk)

Uturn
HP Ice
Stone Edge
Hi Jump Kick

I remember there was a huge amount of discussion as to the viability of ScarfShao as opposed to its more well known cousin LO Fake Out Mienshao. While you lose out on the free damage, the Scarf is a very neat trick and often nets surprise kills who don't expect Mienshao to outspeed them. UTurn is great for scouting as always, Hi Jump Kick for sheer damage and the other two moves are for general coverage.

I used to lead with this Mienshao and quickly U-Turn, as many Mienshao do, and few people caught on to the Scarf, assuming instead that I had opted to run Stone Edge over Fake Out. The whole point is simply to be able to U-Turn fast to replace the lack of Fake Out, and switch to a counter for the opponent. Since many attacks can leave a huge dent in Mienshao, switching out against it was uncommon (whether VoltTurning or just regular switching), so you'd generally have a favourable match up.

The rest of Mienshao's job was generally as a revenge killer, usually relying on a Scarfed HP Ice for Dragons and Gliscor, and Hi Jump Kick for everything else. Stoen Edge was just to hit the ghosts which the other two moves wouldn't work against, though swapping it for Fake Out worked to pick off severely weakened Pokemon (which is great off of Mienshao's high attack and it's ability to go before Extremespeed).

I guess the common switch in after Mienshao's Uturn really depends. Scizor obviously has its uses, I know I used Scarf Flygon for a while (surprisingly not as bad as I thought) and Rotom W which needs no explanation. Also Specially Defensive Jirachi works, especially for Stealth Rock purposes.

I'll admit it's not a very orthodox lead (as its job is to get out of the lead matchup), but due to Mienshao's LO set being so popular, on the first turn people rarely switch out, either trying to dent it or tank the Fake Out then hitting back. The Scarf Uturn assured an easy matchup at the start. Plus, being pure fighting makes it easy to predict which coverage move the opponent would use to take it out, meaning you could switch to something being pretty sure you'd resist the hit on the way in.

Oh, and yes, now this Mienshao practically been made redundant against VoltTurn teams. I generally use a different lead for them, usually my own Scizor or Jiarchi to get Stealth Rock up early. However, beating up a Ninetales with Stone Edge is a nice feeling, same goes for the odd Abomasnow (lol Abomasnow). Politoed, not so much, though a HJK to the face of anything will hurt.

 

[Omnigross266]

Good points there, Treadshot A1. But, interestingly, most of the Rotoms-Ws that I encounter (on Smogon's PO server and on the PO server itself) appear to either be defensive or Specs'd, and this Heatran beats them consistently.

However, when I encounter a Scarfed Rotom-W, Heatran generally loses, unless Hydro Pump misses twice, which almost never happens.

 

[Treadshot A1]

Hate to post so frequently, but I do have to point out Defensive Rotom-W often carry PainSplit, so they can hurt your Heatran more reliably. After taking a hit, they can pain split to leave you both at around 75% HP, ensuring they survive the next hit. Since Rotom can't stop you from setting up rocks anyways, it won't be panicking and switching any time soon, especially with the Hydro Pump threatening you, so a Defensive Rotom-W with Pain Split could really hurt your strategy, and then they could Volt Switch out of whatever you switch Heatran for.