Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[Critaquil]

Hi y'all, this is my first real forum post (ever) so apologies if my formatting is poor.


Mega Meganium should get some sort of auto Power Herb ability. As showcased in this video, Mega Meganium can fire off Solar Beams without the long charge time. I have 2 ideas on how this can be implemented as an ability.

Ability 1: Solar Presence
This ability would give Meganium the Sun weather effect on its side of the field both offensively and defensively. This would allow it to fire off Solar Beams without charge with the downside of (effectively) being 3x weak to fire (1.5x fire boost in Sun + 2x Weakness). This also could be a good anti-rain option, allowing it to shut down rain (0.25x dmg with resist and sun) & give it more coverage with perma-fire weather ball.

Ability 2: Flower Power
This one is much simpler, as it's just the power herb as an ability. Could be a once-per-battle similar to Hydrapple's Supersweet Syrup, or permanent (as long as abilities are active).

Either way, I feel like this was an intentional design choice for Meganium when you consider its dex entry as well. Leaf Guard is cool but it would be more lore accurate & viable with a signature ability.

this is just how solar beam works in za, this isnt unique to meganium

yeah like. we do realize that no mega was ever given a custom-made ability right
some were pretty rare for the TIME but were very much designed to become standard issue (tough claws/strong jaw/the -ates were all 3DS additions)

i'm fine with LARPing in new abils if you can make a sound case for more than one or two hypothetical users
like m-falinks and m-barb could share something mechanically similar to current Brass Bond since they're both a Shit Ton of Guys. anonymize the name to Legion or summin
and let's say next gen an exeggcute-type mon is released. that'd be on the table for them too
but as it is? anything more than floette or megamar is pushing it

parental bond and delta stream

 

[fiish]

yeah like. we do realize that no mega was ever given a custom-made ability right

yeah except for kangaskhan, rayquaza, and pinsir/salamence .

 

[Som]

Scrafty I think have more value to be used as a regular mon, intimidate and slow pivot with pshot is ok, is a ok mon, not bad, but not good enough, have a niche

Aint no one slow pivoting with Scrafty when it gets OHKOd with full health investment by M-Gallade, Clefable, M-Malamar, M-Starmie, M-Delphox even... 2HKOd by Greninja and many many more. It simply won't be a real option without a better ability.

And certainly not while Greninja, Starmie and Gallade get to Click Delete Buttons at will.

 

[Smittz]

this is just how solar beam works in za, this isnt unique to meganium



parental bond and delta stream

forgot abt parental bond. feel extremely stupid
that being said every one of its dex entries revolves around the child. and what with the only design change being the kid hopping out the flavor's too intense to fathom anything else
i doubt we're getting another luchador mon anytime soon

 

[Cuddly]

There are more reasons to use mega medi than mega starmie, mega medi does everything we've known since it was released and does it well, mega starmie seems a bit irregular, even with pure power, because it doesn't have coverage on the physical side and it is possible to make a wall much easier than expected

We know it gets Liquidation, Aqua Jet, Flip Turn, and Zen Headbutt. And that's really all you need in the vast majority of scenarios. The 2 Water Absorb Pokemon don't take kindly to Zen Headbutt.

Vs Volcanion/Vaporeon

252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 204-241 (67.7 - 80%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 204-241 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 235-277 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And there isn't that many things that resist both Water and Psychic available are Greninja (super frail), Mega Gyarados, Goodra-H, Slowtwins, and Starmie itself. And the Latter of which also resist Mega Medicham's STABs too so Medicham needs Thunder Punch otherwise.

Vs STAB resists

252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 157-186 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 75-88 (26.3 - 30.8%) -- 20.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 118-139 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(After Base form took Rocks)
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 118-139 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra-Hisui: 127-150 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 105-124 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

And for extra measure.
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow-Mega in Snow: 153-181 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If you REALLY want to beat those Pokemon so bad, you can also always go Mixed Starmie and use Thunderbolt. Or you know, just Flip Turn into Tyranitar on the Slowtwins and switch into Vaporeon when Mega Gren/Gyara aren't in KO range which is gonna be rare.

 

[Smittz]

yeah except for kangaskhan, rayquaza, and pinsir/salamence .

refrigerate got aurorus, pixilate sylv, it's rlly only coincidence that there's no non-mega aerilate user (that and flying prio being lowkey broken)
that scrapped jet eevee would 100% get it if gamefreak didn't have debilitating hubes

 

[G-Luke]

Every other post is people complaining that they don't like the choices made for the mega and the replacement is custom ability #282662

Like it or not. If the Pokémon is not a bad Pokémon especially in a way that abilities are not impacted, do not expect it's ability to be changed. So Barb isn't losing Tough Claws, Delphox isn't losing Levitate and Froslass isn't losing Snow Warning. Even the likes of Meganium, losing Triage sucks. But Flower Veil as shown right now is not a bad ability for it at all, it's performing good enough to solidify a niche for it in the time being.

Take the energy that you guys are having to try and change a bunch of solid Pokémon and try and do **reasonable** pitches for crappy Megas. Scrafty, Clefable, Chandelure, Victreebel even possibly Hawlucha. That's how we got stuff like Eelektross. Those are the meGgas you guys should be investing time into trying to buff. In regards to standard Megas, I am personally not onboard with any of them getting changed, but the mod leader already opened that hornet's nest so they should decide how that will be handled, but hopefully you guys would funnel energy into that too. Hopefully a certain Snake is banned so metagame discussion can be fleshed out more as well.

If you want to create alternate customs so bad, you're in the Pet Mods subforum, you can deadass just make a new mod that runs different from this in your own vision.

 

[Cuddly]

Every other post is people complaining that they don't like the choices made for the mega and the replacement is custom ability #282662

Like it or not. If the Pokémon is not a bad Pokémon especially in a way that abilities are not impacted, do not expect it's ability to be changed. So Barb isn't losing Tough Claws, Delphox isn't losing Levitate and Froslass isn't losing Snow Warning. Even the likes of Meganium, losing Triage sucks. But Flower Veil as shown right now is not a bad ability for it at all, it's performing good enough to solidify a niche for it in the time being.

Take the energy that you guys are having to try and change a bunch of solid Pokémon and try and do **reasonable** pitches for crappy Megas. Scrafty, Clefable, Chandelure, Victreebel even possibly Hawlucha. That's how we got stuff like Eelektross. Those are the meGgas you guys should be investing time into trying to buff. In regards to standard Megas, I am personally not onboard with any of them getting changed, but the mod leader already opened that hornet's nest so they should decide how that will be handled, but hopefully you guys would funnel energy into that too. Hopefully a certain Snake is banned so metagame discussion can be fleshed out more as well.

If you want to create alternate customs so bad, you're in the Pet Mods subforum, you can deadass just make a new mod that runs different from this in your own vision.

^
Everyone should keep in mind that this meta is to try out the new Megas. It's not to make Megas viable or not broken. When they come out for Champions, the ability they get is the ability they get.
All the new Megas should have something realistic and for the most part they are realistic. It'd be kind of weird to go from testing these Megas out and that Psychic Surge Delphox you want gets something else more reasonable, it's gonna be weird and disappoint you.

 

[80DollarsIsCrazy]

Every other post is people complaining that they don't like the choices made for the mega and the replacement is custom ability #282662

Like it or nogt. If the Pokémon is not a bad Pokémon especially in a way that abilities are not impacted, do not expect it's ability to be changed. So Barb isn't losing Tough Claws, Delphox isn't losing Levitate and Froslass isn't losing Snow Warning. Even the likes of Meganium, losing Triage sucks. But Flower Veil as shown right now is not a bad ability for it at all, it's performing good enough to solidify a niche for it in the time being.

Take the energy that you guys are having to try and change a bunch of solid Pokémon and try and do **reasonable** pitches for crappy Megas. Scrafty, Clefable, Chandelure, Victreebel even possibly Hawlucha. That's how we got stuff like Eelektross. Those are the meGgas you guys should be investing time into trying to buff. In regards to standard Megas, I am personally not onboard with any of them getting changed, but the mod leader already opened that hornet's nest so they should decide how that will be handled, but hopefully you guys would funnel energy into that too. Hopefully a certain Snake is banned so metagame discussion can be fleshed out more as well.

If you want to create alternate customs so bad, you're in the Pet Mods subforum, you can deadass just make a new mod that runs different from this in your own vision.

I actually got an idea since of what you said before, For Barbaracle. I understand that tough claws should stay. But How about this: You combine Tough Claws + Pickpocket or Magician. You can just make it the second part chance based like 10% or 20%(if it's the magician), and it won't take the item(because two items would be broken), but just knock it off like Knock Off. It's makes it unique without ruining it. You can call it like Swiping Claws. So it's not just another Tough Claws.
And For your idea, you said for Mega Scrafty to just make it have Mutliscale. Why just make it have that and Shed Skin. You can call it Tough Coating.

 

[UltraSword]

Ok since I lack imagination instead of discussing any of those cool new mega and new abilities, I am instead going to use my time and effort to defend Zygarde.

First off it is really really fun so please let it stay

Ok but seriously I don't really think Zygarde is broken because it isn't that strong. It has 100 base attack and while that isn't unusable, it isn't very powerful in comparison to something like Mega Charizard X or Hoopa U. Zygarde has great bulk, but its only healing move is rest and even with great bulk it is weak to some of the best offensive types in the game. Thousand Arrows is an insanely good move, but it isn't a move that breaks Zygarde in my opinion. I don't think the move is very hard to play around if you know what you are doing. Overall, I think Zygarde is a perfectly fine pokemon in this metagame with enough counterplay that I don't think it is broken or unhealthy.

I know this post is kind of bad but at least humor me please and understand where I am coming from.

 

[Som]

I actually got an idea since of what you said before, For Barbaracle. I understand that tough claws should stay. But How about this: You combine Tough Claws + Pickpocket or Magician. You can just make it the second part chance based like 10% or 20%(if it's the magician), and it won't take the item(because two items would be broken), but just knock it off like Knock Off. It's makes it unique without ruining it. You can call it like Swiping Claws. So it's not just another Tough Claws.
And For your idea, you said for Mega Scrafty to just make it have Mutliscale. Why just make it have that and Shed Skin. You can call it Tough Coating.

Or even a variant of Multiscale.

Tough Coating: While Scrafty is at full health, moves cannot be super effective against it.

This still leaves Fairy, Fighting and Flying as effective answers long term, but solves the Play Rough jump scare deletions that keep it unviable. It also doesn't make it any better against the Pokemon it's already good against (Which Multiscale would do.)

 

[ausma]

Hey all, I’ve been playing this meta a lot the past few days. I’ve been having a lot of fun, but there are some problems I have with the format I feel are prudent to share.

First of all, here’s my tentative viability list. Obviously this is very prone to change, but these are my initial thoughts after a lot of playing, experimenting and having gotten top ~20ish at a point. Happy to elaborate on any one ranking as desired! Also if you don’t see a Pokemon here, it’s either unviable or I haven’t seen it enough to give it a confident ranking.

Major standout placements:

1: The (possible) Brokens


Most people have voiced their thoughts on these already, but for the purpose of getting action going, I’m going to +1 that these Pokemon need to go.


I understand that it’s cute to give Mega Gallade the same buff as base Gallade, but this Pokemon’s statline was very clearly designed without a viability-defining ability in mind. Sharpness is such an insane power boost that Attack investment is not at all necessary, and with Mega Gallade’s shockingly good natural bulk and full HP investment, it can tank the hits of faster Pokemon and clean most balances/offenses without much resistance. This Pokemon is broken with Sharpness, please just give it another ability if you really want to give it a buff (IMO not even necessary in the first place).


These two I’m not very sure about, but it’s mostly because I either haven’t seen them enough or haven’t seen people use the broken shit enough. Mega Lopunny I’m more confident in because it getting Swords Dance was an unholy mistake that lets it just automatically beat any team ever without Slowbro on it, but I feel I haven’t seen it enough to really say definitively. Mega Starmie I feel has the recipe to be a long-term broken Pokemon; while it has a lot of theoretical checks, it has a comical amount of set variety and has the ability to tech for whatever Pokemon it wants. Offensive Bulk Up is noob bait, however Specially-invested Bulk Up with Recover, Bulk Up, Liquidation, and Rapid Spin is really good, and Rapid Spin 3A sets have pretty much no answers in the game as Thunderbolt lets it beat Skarmory and Slowbro without a sweat. Or it can just cut the random bullshit and run Flip Turn to midground, either taking full advantage of your one defensive switch-in and/or massively chunking your Pokemon. I feel as though the tier would just be better off without it, as unlike other PLZA megas, the broken element of it is all but confirmed.


2: The Unexpected


Gourgeist was a very, very pleasant surprise as it is one of my favorite Pokemon. Despite mostly boasting bottom tier placements, I started toying with it once I wanted to find a Excadrill-resilient spinblocker. Gourgeist, by happenstance, is one of the only Rapid Spin immunities in the tier that don’t immediately fold to Excadrill’s Earthquake or have very high opportunity cost. However its utility doesn’t end there, as being a bulky Grass-type also makes it an actual check to Zygarde which otherwise destroys this tier mercilessly. It can tank Pursuit pretty well due to its high Physical bulk, which is just immensely useful into a lot of Pokemon barring Excadrill and Zygarde. It checks Barbaracle, Dragonite, Mega Feraligatr, and non-Knock Off variants of Mega Metagross, among other things. Furthermore, it has the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed, making it amazing at accruing chip in a metagame that is defined by footsies and an inevitable cleanup. These tools also grant it a solid midground and a way to actively support its team. I have been super impressed with Gourgeist’s performance as a flexible, non-passive physical wall and I think it is a genuine A-tier Pokemon.


Umbreon is normally considered a very middle of the road wall, but it gained Knock Off in PLZA which grants it the offensive midground that has rid it of its passivity into Steel-type Pokemon. With STAB, it can hit just hard enough to force your respect. Defensively it is quite excellent, providing a special wall that comes packed with cleric support in Wish/Heal Bell, longevity, and a really useful defensive typing in a metagame run by the likes of Greninja and Aegislash. It’s been a fixture of a lot of the balance teams I’ve been experimenting with. While it is still passive in some respects and isn’t as surprising as Gourgeist, I think the Knock Off buff was substantial for its gameplan and its defensive profile is in the right place at the right time.


While Light Clay isn’t a thing here (not sure why it isn’t if we’re committing to allowing HDB and Choice items), Meowstic’s endless pocket of buffs it received from PLZA helps discern a pretty real niche despite heavy competition from Klefki. Mainly, this is in the form of Prankster Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes. Grounded Poisons are not extremely common, and Meowstic can threaten ones not named Galarian Slowking with Psychic STAB, making it a weirdly good lead that is also hard to exploit thanks to Prankster Thunder Wave and Taunt in its back pocket. As a Screens setter, I would say it’s probably the best in the format since, unlike Klefki, it isn’t weak to Earthquake, which is a big deal as Excadrill will often be facing you down to minimize the impact of your entry hazards. Seeing Meowstic succeed is really cool and I think it does force your respect now.


Florges being a Defog user that beats the hazard-vomiting Garchomp and can roughly emulate Clefable’s defensive profile is pretty cool. Unlike Clefable, though, its insane natural Special bulk also helps a lot into Greninja and Mega Dragonite without investment, meaning you can still check things like Zygarde and Garchomp as well. Into Steel-types and more general purpose switch-ins, it has access to Psychic Noise, making it hard for Pokemon like Skarmory to try and exploit it for a healing opportunity. While a niche sidegrade, I think it’s a sidegrade worth the investment. Not a bad turnout for a Pokemon often considered a noob trap in Gen 7 OU.

3: The Underrated


Giving this thing Regenerator makes it feel like a quasi-Clefable/Alomomola hybrid. It’s pretty hard to consistently pressure, reliably provides Wish support, and has a lethal pool of utility that midgrounds and consistently shuts down attempts to take advantage of it. I think right now it doesn’t feel amazing because Excadrill and Mega Metagross are so oppressive, as well as the fact it’s a super uninteresting option that brings an opportunity cost amidst a pool of new toys. Once the metagame begins to settle and slow down a bit, I suspect it will really rise in popularity.


Being a fast, Choice Scarf-friendly Pursuit user is a really unique and powerful niche. It’s an excellent Choice Scarf user and great Speed control on a fundamental level, but being able to trap the likes of Mega Delphox, Mega Metagross, and Mega Starmie unlike Tyranitar is stupidly useful.


The only real checks to this Pokemon are Slowbro-Mega and Diancie; tbh nearly all reliable checks it had in previous games are just gone. It’s weak to Stealth Rock which are very powerful here and isn’t an exciting mega, but this Pokemon is genuinely just fucking nuts and has all it needs with DD Roost STABs.

(Mega)
This Pokemon is like if Kingambit didn’t have STAB on Sucker Punch in exchange for a permanent Burn immunity, a STAB draining move, and Bulk Up. It only doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe could be because of Greninja, Excadrill, Zygarde, and Slowbro being so widely used, and the presence of some annoying Pokemon like Mega Dragalge and Dragonite (both forms). In a lot of matchups though it can be a really good cleaner with strong priority and a decent wallbreaker.

(Mega)
This thing is kind of weirdly good actually. It is a bit of a one-note Pokemon, but its statline is pretty nicely optimized to take advantage of No Retreat. Brass Bond is only really good for breaking Focus Sash and securing a couple of KOs into Slowbro and Clefable, but I think those are relevant enough to be worth it. I also think it’s amazing on Sticky Web teams since it is one of only two Pokemon with the ability to punish Defog (the other being Meowstic-F which sucks) thanks to pre-mega Defiant.

____

I’m having a lot of fun with this metagame, but I have to admit there are some decisions here (mostly from an optics POV) that are kind of confusing to me. Mainly, I’d like to point out the weird amount of custom abilities in this format. While for a Pet Mod unnecessary customs are just a bit annoying, here it’s pretty egregious because of what this format is intending to be and how it is designed to be a lens into how the new Mega Pokemon/movepool buffs will play out in practice. Mainly I’d like to point out problems with the following Pokemon:



These three Pokemon, bluntly, do not need customs, nor do I see a real reason for them to receive one.

Eelektross receiving a hybrid ability that includes Levitate is optically weird as Levitate is normally an ability that is very mechanically distinguished, with a unique emphasis on being a “solo” ability of sorts. I feel as though if we want to buff Mega Eelektross from Levitate, it needs an ability like Sheer Force which strongly complements its strong mixed coverage and leans into making Eelektross a reliable mixed wallbreaker, which it seems it is trying to do here anyway. It can honestly just keep Levitate though, I don’t see a reason to mince that since it was not great but not irredeemably bad, either.

Chesnaught having a hybrid ability is odd to me because it doesn’t really need one. I think just committing to something like Iron Barbs or keeping Bulletproof is more than fine enough. I see no real reason for it to receive a custom Mega ability over Greninja and Delphox when it’s mechanically a very grounded Pokemon.

Hawlucha receiving Speed Moxie is a really disappointing and odd choice to me. Not only is there a lot of laden potential in Hawlucha’s great fundamentals (it has tons of cool utility moves, a grossly versatile typing, and a very cool stat distribution), but trying to pigeonhole it into a sweeper I feel as though is a poor idea that doesn’t explore the interesting design space around Hawlucha beyond Unburden. Giving it a custom just to try and do this feels especially wrong, in part since it’s not a particularly impactful ability in practice. I think giving it Reckless (which was a cool suggestion someone made to encourage running HJK > CC and Brave Bird, which does actually engage with its tools to address the effect of recoil in a cool way) or something like Inner Focus/Defiant would be a good idea.

Other smaller nitpicks:


Contrarian I understand the point of, but I really doubt they just make Contrary but better as a way to offset its dogshit stats. Hematite and BlueRay made a really cool suggestion in Psychic Surge, which is a very meaningful choice that makes sense from a VGC perspective (improving its probability) due to how its typing works with Expanding Force on PsySpam structures and also actively considers pre-Mega Contrary. I don’t think it will be particularly great with this ability but I do think it’s enough to cement a micro-niche one way or another while staying true to Game Freak’s philosophy with customs and balancing.


The justification for Soul-Heart is cute but I think it’s very unlikely they give it to anything other than Magearna, since the flavor of this ability is so deeply tethered to Magearna’s lore. I also think it’s a change that makes Mega Dragonite feel far more linear than it could be, given its really unique and interesting statline.
__


To be clear, I’m not saying that I think these Pokemon are broken (maybe not even good lol), but I think if your format is trying to adhere to Game Freak philosophy and is attempting to emulate what their balancing decisions may look like, trying to design arbitrary customs just to make them good and fit a specific mold when it’s not necessary really hurts the integrity and longevity of the format. At the end of the day, there will be bad or underwhelming Mega Pokemon compared to others, and I think that sacrifice is necessary for a more authentic feeling format that will have more longevity/accessibility. If that’s not actually the goal, then that’s fine, but I think it’s important to be extra transparent with that and accept the risks.

Other than that, super fun tier. I look forward to seeing how it grows!

EDIT: My criticism on customs also goes for people making suggestions to grant more customs. Obviously I can’t stop you from making them if you want to, but I really suggest you consider how much a Pokemon really needs them before making them, since imo customs require a really good argument in this context (unless you’re arguing for Mega Floette/Zygarde) due to the optical issues around them.

 

[Prowlermon]

Or even a variant of Multiscale.

Tough Coating: While Scrafty is at full health, moves cannot be super effective against it.

This still leaves Fairy, Fighting and Flying as effective answers long term, but solves the Play Rough jump scare deletions that keep it unviable. It also doesn't make it any better against the Pokemon it's already good against (Which Multiscale would do.)

The glaze for the scrafty is insane

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

I actually got an idea since of what you said before, For Barbaracle. I understand that tough claws should stay. But How about this: You combine Tough Claws + Pickpocket or Magician. You can just make it the second part chance based like 10% or 20%(if it's the magician), and it won't take the item(because two items would be broken), but just knock it off like Knock Off. It's makes it unique without ruining it. You can call it like Swiping Claws. So it's not just another Tough Claws.
And For your idea, you said for Mega Scrafty to just make it have Mutliscale. Why just make it have that and Shed Skin. You can call it Tough Coating.

Mega Barbaracle is totally fine as-is, it does NOT need buffs. Tough Claws is a great ability for it, let's not make overengineered fangame fakemon abilities that take 2 paragraphs to explain. Plus it literally has Tough Claws base

(And it's not like GameFreak is opposed to giving Tough Claws to a bunch of megas, seeing as the first set of megas had 3 tough claws mons)

Every other post is people complaining that they don't like the choices made for the mega and the replacement is custom ability #282662

Like it or not. If the Pokémon is not a bad Pokémon especially in a way that abilities are not impacted, do not expect it's ability to be changed. So Barb isn't losing Tough Claws, Delphox isn't losing Levitate and Froslass isn't losing Snow Warning. Even the likes of Meganium, losing Triage sucks. But Flower Veil as shown right now is not a bad ability for it at all, it's performing good enough to solidify a niche for it in the time being.

Take the energy that you guys are having to try and change a bunch of solid Pokémon and try and do **reasonable** pitches for crappy Megas. Scrafty, Clefable, Chandelure, Victreebel even possibly Hawlucha. That's how we got stuff like Eelektross. Those are the meGgas you guys should be investing time into trying to buff. In regards to standard Megas, I am personally not onboard with any of them getting changed, but the mod leader already opened that hornet's nest so they should decide how that will be handled, but hopefully you guys would funnel energy into that too. Hopefully a certain Snake is banned so metagame discussion can be fleshed out more as well.

If you want to create alternate customs so bad, you're in the Pet Mods subforum, you can deadass just make a new mod that runs different from this in your own vision.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Mega Chandelure gets Shadow Tag. But obviously that would instantly be banned from the tier

 

[Som]

View attachment 781622


The glaze for the scrafty is insane

I mean, I said very plainly in my opening post that Scrafty is the only reason I'm even here. I don't really get any enjoyment from spiking out a format to climb for the sake of it. I need to like the Pokemon I'm playing with, and I need the gameplay to be tight and tactically interesting or I simply don't stick with it.

I think there's some dope potential here, so I'm gonna fight for my boy until it becomes clear there's nothing to be done or said about it. Currently, seems to still be on the table.

 

[Prowlermon]

Mega Barbaracle is totally fine as-is, it does NOT need buffs. Tough Claws is a great ability for it, let's not make overengineered fangame fakemon abilities that take 2 paragraphs to explain. Plus it literally has Tough Claws base

(And it's not like GameFreak is opposed to giving Tough Claws to a bunch of megas, seeing as the first set of megas had 3 tough claws mons)



Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Mega Chandelure gets Shadow Tag. But obviously that would instantly be banned from the tier

Please, no more radical red type shi of abilitys, Everyone is already fed up with this and it's pretty boring, because if it were like that, it would be better to open that radical red showdown

 

[Cuddly]

These two I’m not very sure about, but it’s mostly because I either haven’t seen them enough or haven’t seen people use the broken shit enough. Mega Lopunny I’m more confident in because it getting Swords Dance was an unholy mistake that lets it just automatically beat any team ever without Slowbro on it, but I feel I haven’t seen it enough to really say definitively. Mega Starmie I feel has the recipe to be a long-term broken Pokemon; while it has a lot of theoretical checks, it has a comical amount of set variety and has the ability to tech for whatever Pokemon it wants. Offensive Bulk Up is noob bait, however Specially-invested Bulk Up with Recover, Bulk Up, Liquidation, and Rapid Spin is really good, and Rapid Spin 3A sets have pretty much no answers in the game as Thunderbolt lets it beat Skarmory and Slowbro without a sweat. Or it can just cut the random bullshit and run Flip Turn to midground, either taking full advantage of your one defensive switch-in and/or massively chunking your Pokemon. I feel as though the tier would just be better off without it, as unlike other PLZA megas, the broken element of it is all but confirmed.

Imo Mega Lopunny is definitely busted, but Mega Starmie is on the cusp of being broken.
Mega Lopunny's movepool buffs are genuinely insane. You take a Mega that excelled at beating offense and then give it Sword Dance to break balance teams and Mach Punch to make it stronger against Offense. Even against the bulkiest of teams, Lopunny can put in some work and the Metagame has Hoopa-U to break those teams apart.
Another element that puts Lopunny over the edge is Parting Shot Sableye. Not only does it make setting up Sword Dance easy for Lopunny, but Lopunny can counter Sableye with Mach Punch to prevent Parting Shot, Wisp, or Thunder Waves.
Also Lopunny is so naturally fast and with that extra priority option, it can run Adamant so that +2 Return/Close Combat hit harder. With Adamant, Lopunny still outspeeds Hawlucha before Unburden boost, and everything faster doesn't appreciate Mach Punch or Quick Attack, depending on what your team needs to fight either Delphox or Froslass.
I also made a post calcing some of the physically bulkiest Pokemon vs Lopunny, and the only things tanking +2 Lopunny at Mega Slowbro and Unaware Clefable, which if you played Gen 8 Ubers may remember how Quagsire technically counters Zacian but with no margin for error or bad luck on your side.

For Mega Starmie, you can play around it at least since you still have Water Absorb Pokemon and bulky resists, and more than just Mega Slowbro too. What would set Starmie over the edge is if Pelipper was around here to set up rain so its Liquidations and Aqua Jets hit absurd levels of power. For reference
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron-Mega in Rain: 148-175 (43 - 50.8%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron-Mega in Rain: 148-175 (43 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
You 2HKO Mega Aggron in Rain. Guaranteed with 1 spike and stealth rock up.

 

[Som]

EDIT: My criticism on customs also goes for people making suggestions to grant more customs. Obviously I can’t stop you from making them if you want to, but I really suggest you consider how much a Pokemon really needs them before making them, since imo customs require a really good argument in this context (unless you’re arguing for Mega Floette/Zygarde) due to the optical issues around them.

Poor Mega Abomasnow not even tiered... It'd be C tier for sure ofc lol. Let's give that buddy a custom, because if anyone needs one, it's the yeti.

Obviously some Megas are simply going to be bad with Game Freaks decision making, and customs are a slippery slope. But the uncertainty and anticipation of the decisions is the whole reason why a lot of people are here in the first place. To have fun with potential.

Plenty of other decided formats to spike out if you simply want what Game Freak has already done, imo.

 

[80DollarsIsCrazy]

Mega Barbaracle is totally fine as-is, it does NOT need buffs. Tough Claws is a great ability for it, let's not make overengineered fangame fakemon abilities that take 2 paragraphs to explain. Plus it literally has Tough Claws base

(And it's not like GameFreak is opposed to giving Tough Claws to a bunch of megas, seeing as the first set of megas had 3 tough claws mons)

You are right...I'm just disappointed that five have the same ability. But yeah likely gamefreak would do the same thing anyways. It's probably for the best... for the balance of showdown. I'll leave it as is.

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

Mega Greninja is absolutely busted, not playing it is straight up being at disadvantage, and changing Battle Bond to Technician has made nothing to balance it. In fact, I can now not revenge kill it with Scarfers like Krookodile because it's running more Water Shuriken than ever so you need to run a Pokemon that resists both its stabs, and the only non megas are Chesnaught (dies from Sludge Wave or Ice Beam) and Sharpedo (lol). On top of that, it's the fastest Pokemon among all the viable so you can't even outspeed it without a Scarf. And it might even not be Greninja Mega but Protean or Battle Bond which have different checks. A spike is all it needs to sweep every team with a Nasty Plot

100% agreed. Mega Greninja gets to hand-pick its checks. You can run Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave to savage a Clefable switching in (and god forbid you're running Magic Guard, then you die to Nasty Plot), you have HP Dark/Dark Pulse to near-OHKO Slowbro/Glowking, you have Ice Beam against Mega Meganium or base Goodra (which 3HKOs both, and Goodra has no recovery), etc.

And your STABs 2shot or even oneshot neutral targets, PLUS it has Technician Water Shuriken to as you said oneshot any scarfers trying to revengekill it.

Like it's just ridiculous, you almost 2HKO a full SpDef clef: 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And you have Protean pre-mega (or Battle Bond if you don't want to mega), so you can choose to just not mega and just kill your "check" for free -- not like you even have to run Mega Gren with how strong base Greninja is:
252 SpA Protean Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (and you're a Poison type here so Clef does nothing back)

Gren can also be used as a mix-up, since ofc base Gren is also very good, and therefore you don't know if it's mega or not. Gren could be the Mega, or it could be a surprise Mega Dragonite or Mega Excadrill or Skarm or Scizor

The only real switchins to the mega are like Vaporeon and AV Hoodra... but whoops! They lose to the other sets!

• It's non-mega Switcheroo Specs/Scarf and just disabled your wall!
• It didn't mega, and it's Battle Bond and sacing a mon to bring your wall in safely instantly lost you the game!
• It Flip Turned/UTurned out into Zygrade or a setup sweeper or Mega Drampa for rain or etc and you lost! (oh and Flip Turn is Technician-boosted in mega)
• It set up Substitute as you come in and now you can't touch it!
• It's Protean and it changes its type magically, so it lives a hit and gets to 2HKO!
• It set up Nasty Plot as your Vaporeon comes in and now you lose! (Vaporeon can only recover with Lefties and Wish, so +2 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 279-328 (60.1 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
• Whoops, it's a random physical MGren set (because it randomly has 125 base Atk and Swords Dance in addition to 133 SpA and Nasty Plot with Dragapult 142 speed, what the fck were they thinking), and it 2HKOd your Hoodra with Low Kick, or your Clef with Gunk Shot (252 Atk Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Goodra-Hisui: 202-238 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
• I even played against Sash Torrent Greninja. If I didn't have Extreme Speed Dnite, I would have lost because it's impossible to switch into that Hydro Pump

It's literally just guess my set with 20 different variations, and if you guess even slightly wrong, you lose 2 mons on the spot, if not lose the entire game (heaven forbid you don't have 2 Extreme Speed users to revengekill the 70% HP Greninja that just 2HKOd your wall)

And I haven't even mentioned how well revengekills with Technician Water Shuriken! Good luck shell smashing with Barbaracle when Greninja comes in and kills it with 2 hits of it's 2-5 hit Water Shuriken
And it gets Scald, and Spikes, and TSpikes, Taunt, Switcheroo, Haze, Power-Up Punch Shadow Sneak (which can be boosted with Technician in Mega, along with AAce, Rock Tomb, Mud Shot, Feint Attack, Flip Turn, etc), Grass Knot, even Hydro Cannon if you want to 80% chunk a key wall as you die.
Of course, Gren checks itself too, so it has the additional benefit of checking 2 of the 5 best mons in the tier -- as if you need another reason to run it.

Please ban thisdented mega, everybody is using Greninja and it kills all teambuilding variety. Either run Greninja (Mega or not it doesn't matter), or run 2 Extreme Speed revengekillers, or run a team of 4-6 walls (and even then you probably run Greninja for its support movepool and revenge kill power). If you don't want to do those, then you are playing at a disadvantage and you lose.

I see him in my dreams now


UPDATE: I just realize that Technician buffs Grass Knot when used on Greninja and Vaporeon LMAO
+2 252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 416-490 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 264-312 (92.6 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Also I have mostly used non-mega Gren, so I forgot to mention that HP Dark on MGren is arguably better than Dark Pulse thanks to Technician (although Dark Pulse is of course better outside of mega)

 

[Prowlermon]

Hey all, I’ve been playing this meta a lot the past few days. I’ve been having a lot of fun, but there are some problems I have with the format I feel are prudent to share.

First of all, here’s my tentative viability list. Obviously this is very prone to change, but these are my initial thoughts after a lot of playing, experimenting and having gotten top ~20ish at a point. Happy to elaborate on any one ranking as desired! Also if you don’t see a Pokemon here, it’s either unviable or I haven’t seen it enough to give it a confident ranking.

View attachment 781615

Major standout placements:

1: The (possible) Brokens


Most people have voiced their thoughts on these already, but for the purpose of getting action going, I’m going to +1 that these Pokemon need to go.


I understand that it’s cute to give Mega Gallade the same buff as base Gallade, but this Pokemon’s statline was very clearly designed without a viability-defining ability in mind. Sharpness is such an insane power boost that Attack investment is not at all necessary, and with Mega Gallade’s shockingly good natural bulk and full HP investment, it can tank the hits of faster Pokemon and clean most balances/offenses without much resistance. This Pokemon is broken with Sharpness, please just give it another ability if you really want to give it a buff (IMO not even necessary in the first place).


These two I’m not very sure about, but it’s mostly because I either haven’t seen them enough or haven’t seen people use the broken shit enough. Mega Lopunny I’m more confident in because it getting Swords Dance was an unholy mistake that lets it just automatically beat any team ever without Slowbro on it, but I feel I haven’t seen it enough to really say definitively. Mega Starmie I feel has the recipe to be a long-term broken Pokemon; while it has a lot of theoretical checks, it has a comical amount of set variety and has the ability to tech for whatever Pokemon it wants. Offensive Bulk Up is noob bait, however Specially-invested Bulk Up with Recover, Bulk Up, Liquidation, and Rapid Spin is really good, and Rapid Spin 3A sets have pretty much no answers in the game as Thunderbolt lets it beat Skarmory and Slowbro without a sweat. Or it can just cut the random bullshit and run Flip Turn to midground, either taking full advantage of your one defensive switch-in and/or massively chunking your Pokemon. I feel as though the tier would just be better off without it, as unlike other PLZA megas, the broken element of it is all but confirmed.


2: The Unexpected


Gourgeist was a very, very pleasant surprise as it is one of my favorite Pokemon. Despite mostly boasting bottom tier placements, I started toying with it once I wanted to find a Excadrill-resilient spinblocker. Gourgeist, by happenstance, is one of the only Rapid Spin immunities in the tier that don’t immediately fold to Excadrill’s Earthquake or have very high opportunity cost. However its utility doesn’t end there, as being a bulky Grass-type also makes it an actual check to Zygarde which otherwise destroys this tier mercilessly. It can tank Pursuit pretty well due to its high Physical bulk, which is just immensely useful into a lot of Pokemon barring Excadrill and Zygarde. It checks Barbaracle, Dragonite, Mega Feraligatr, and non-Knock Off variants of Mega Metagross, among other things. Furthermore, it has the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed, making it amazing at accruing chip in a metagame that is defined by footsies and an inevitable cleanup. These tools also grant it a solid midground and a way to actively support its team. I have been super impressed with Gourgeist’s performance as a flexible, non-passive physical wall and I think it is a genuine A-tier Pokemon.


Umbreon is normally considered a very middle of the road wall, but it gained Knock Off in PLZA which grants it the offensive midground that has rid it of its passivity into Steel-type Pokemon. With STAB, it can hit just hard enough to force your respect. Defensively it is quite excellent, providing a special wall that comes packed with cleric support in Wish/Heal Bell, longevity, and a really useful defensive typing in a metagame run by the likes of Greninja and Aegislash. It’s been a fixture of a lot of the balance teams I’ve been experimenting with. While it is still passive in some respects and isn’t as surprising as Gourgeist, I think the Knock Off buff was substantial for its gameplan and its defensive profile is in the right place at the right time.


While Light Clay isn’t a thing here (not sure why it isn’t if we’re committing to allowing HDB and Choice items), Meowstic’s endless pocket of buffs it received from PLZA helps discern a pretty real niche despite heavy competition from Klefki. Mainly, this is in the form of Prankster Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes. Grounded Poisons are not extremely common, and Meowstic can threaten ones not named Galarian Slowking with Psychic STAB, making it a weirdly good lead that is also hard to exploit thanks to Prankster Thunder Wave and Taunt in its back pocket. As a Screens setter, I would say it’s probably the best in the format since, unlike Klefki, it isn’t weak to Earthquake, which is a big deal as Excadrill will often be facing you down to minimize the impact of your entry hazards. Seeing Meowstic succeed is really cool and I think it does force your respect now.


Florges being a Defog user that beats the hazard-vomiting Garchomp and can roughly emulate Clefable’s defensive profile is pretty cool. Unlike Clefable, though, its insane natural Special bulk also helps a lot into Greninja and Mega Dragonite without investment, meaning you can still check things like Zygarde and Garchomp as well. Into Steel-types and more general purpose switch-ins, it has access to Psychic Noise, making it hard for Pokemon like Skarmory to try and exploit it for a healing opportunity. While a niche sidegrade, I think it’s a sidegrade worth the investment. Not a bad turnout for a Pokemon often considered a noob trap in Gen 7 OU.

3: The Underrated


Giving this thing Regenerator makes it feel like a quasi-Clefable/Alomomola hybrid. It’s pretty hard to consistently pressure, reliably provides Wish support, and has a lethal pool of utility that midgrounds and consistently shuts down attempts to take advantage of it. I think right now it doesn’t feel amazing because Excadrill and Mega Metagross are so oppressive, as well as the fact it’s a super uninteresting option that brings an opportunity cost amidst a pool of new toys. Once the metagame begins to settle and slow down a bit, I suspect it will really rise in popularity.


Being a fast, Choice Scarf-friendly Pursuit user is a really unique and powerful niche. It’s an excellent Choice Scarf user and great Speed control on a fundamental level, but being able to trap the likes of Mega Delphox, Mega Metagross, and Mega Starmie unlike Tyranitar is stupidly useful.


The only real checks to this Pokemon are Slowbro-Mega and Diancie; tbh nearly all reliable checks it had in previous games are just gone. It’s weak to Stealth Rock which are very powerful here and isn’t an exciting mega, but this Pokemon is genuinely just fucking nuts and has all it needs with DD Roost STABs.

(Mega)
This Pokemon is like if Kingambit didn’t have STAB on Sucker Punch in exchange for a permanent Burn immunity, a STAB draining move, and Bulk Up. It only doesn’t feel as strong as it maybe could be because of Greninja, Excadrill, Zygarde, and Slowbro being so widely used, and the presence of some annoying Pokemon like Mega Dragalge and Dragonite (both forms). In a lot of matchups though it can be a really good cleaner with strong priority and a decent wallbreaker.

(Mega)
This thing is kind of weirdly good actually. It is a bit of a one-note Pokemon, but its statline is pretty nicely optimized to take advantage of No Retreat. Brass Bond is only really good for breaking Focus Sash and securing a couple of KOs into Slowbro and Clefable, but I think those are relevant enough to be worth it. I also think it’s amazing on Sticky Web teams since it is one of only two Pokemon with the ability to punish Defog (the other being Meowstic-F which sucks) thanks to pre-mega Defiant.

____

I’m having a lot of fun with this metagame, but I have to admit there are some decisions here (mostly from an optics POV) that are kind of confusing to me. Mainly, I’d like to point out the weird amount of custom abilities in this format. While for a Pet Mod unnecessary customs are just a bit annoying, here it’s pretty egregious because of what this format is intending to be and how it is designed to be a lens into how the new Mega Pokemon/movepool buffs will play out in practice. Mainly I’d like to point out problems with the following Pokemon:



These three Pokemon, bluntly, do not need customs, nor do I see a real reason for them to receive one.

Eelektross receiving a hybrid ability that includes Levitate is optically weird as Levitate is normally an ability that is very mechanically distinguished, with a unique emphasis on being a “solo” ability of sorts. I feel as though if we want to buff Mega Eelektross from Levitate, it needs an ability like Sheer Force which strongly complements its strong mixed coverage and leans into making Eelektross a reliable mixed wallbreaker, which it seems it is trying to do here anyway. It can honestly just keep Levitate though, I don’t see a reason to mince that since it was not great but not irredeemably bad, either.

Chesnaught having a hybrid ability is odd to me because it doesn’t really need one. I think just committing to something like Iron Barbs or keeping Bulletproof is more than fine enough. I see no real reason for it to receive a custom Mega ability over Greninja and Delphox when it’s mechanically a very grounded Pokemon.

Hawlucha receiving Speed Moxie is a really disappointing and odd choice to me. Not only is there a lot of laden potential in Hawlucha’s great fundamentals (it has tons of cool utility moves, a grossly versatile typing, and a very cool stat distribution), but trying to pigeonhole it into a sweeper I feel as though is a poor idea that doesn’t explore the interesting design space around Hawlucha beyond Unburden. Giving it a custom just to try and do this feels especially wrong, in part since it’s not a particularly impactful ability in practice. I think giving it Reckless (which was a cool suggestion someone made to encourage running HJK > CC and Brave Bird, which does actually engage with its tools to address the effect of recoil in a cool way) or something like Inner Focus/Defiant would be a good idea.

Other smaller nitpicks:


Contrarian I understand the point of, but I really doubt they just make Contrary but better as a way to offset its dogshit stats. Hematite and BlueRay made a really cool suggestion in Psychic Surge, which is a very meaningful choice that makes sense from a VGC perspective (improving its probability) due to how its typing works with Expanding Force on PsySpam structures and also actively considers pre-Mega Contrary. I don’t think it will be particularly great with this ability but I do think it’s enough to cement a micro-niche one way or another while staying true to Game Freak’s philosophy with customs and balancing.


The justification for Soul-Heart is cute but I think it’s very unlikely they give it to anything other than Magearna, since the flavor of this ability is so deeply tethered to Magearna’s lore. I also think it’s a change that makes Mega Dragonite feel far more linear than it could be, given its really unique and interesting statline.
__


To be clear, I’m not saying that I think these Pokemon are broken (maybe not even good lol), but I think if your format is trying to adhere to Game Freak philosophy and is attempting to emulate what their balancing decisions may look like, trying to design arbitrary customs just to make them good and fit a specific mold when it’s not necessary really hurts the integrity and longevity of the format. At the end of the day, there will be bad or underwhelming Mega Pokemon compared to others, and I think that sacrifice is necessary for a more authentic feeling format that will have more longevity/accessibility. If that’s not actually the goal, then that’s fine, but I think it’s important to be extra transparent with that and accept the risks.

Other than that, super fun tier. I look forward to seeing how it grows!

EDIT: My criticism on customs also goes for people making suggestions to grant more customs. Obviously I can’t stop you from making them if you want to, but I really suggest you consider how much a Pokemon really needs them before making them, since imo customs require a really good argument in this context (unless you’re arguing for Mega Floette/Zygarde) due to the optical issues around them.

Finally, someone questioning the soul heart dnite (and the contrarian mon

 

[stardustspy]

This is my first real attempt at playing a Smogon tier, as I usually prefer VGC. But because I love Z-A so much i decided to give this tier a go and give some thoughts, considering what I have seen playing the tier. Take it with a grain of salt.

Overall, aside from that blasted cell-snake, this is a really fun tier. Little passivity, fairly fast paced, and has quite a lot of diversity, given some speculative choices on the new Megas. The only other real issue is new toy syndrome where you see nothing but all the new stuff, but as the meta develops I know new toy syndrome will wear off and we will see the older Mega's again.


I loathe this guy. This is the only pokemon in the metagame that I think needs to go. There aren't enough good ice types nor enough walls that check it. Im also pretty certain this guy has the potential to have a ton of sets, such as glare + dd or choice band, ive even seen a choice scarf, so im wondering if it will reach a Gorging Fire-esque situation in the future, assuming its not just outright banned by the council. I know defenders will say to just bring ice coverage or some other answer, but Zygarde at the moment is too much of a headache in the builder and especially in game, to keep around Choice Scarf Salamance is one potential check that I have used and seen success with, but the fact that people have found the addition of the choice items and HDB contentious raises my eyebrows about the counterability of Zygarde.

(mega)
Easily my favorite new mega, and oh my goodness has it met my expectations and surpassed them. This guy is an absolutely CRACKED sweeper with Shell Smash, but that is to be expected considering Shell Smash's history. Its especially good under Sandstorm because the 50% sp.def boost Rock types get during one is invaluable. I think I've won at least 4 games because Barbaracle survived a special attack while setting up a Shell Smash under Sandstorm it definitely wouldn't have. I've also found success with it punishing really passive leads like Slurpuff and Meowstic, so that defintiely helps its case. As much as I want to further glaze Mega Barbaracle, I will mention that it isn't broken, despite Shell Smash. Priority is often the best answer to a sweeping Mega Barbaracle, and ive also seen the occasional switch move which is also decently effective. I'm also certain its possible to play around the Shell Smash and punish it accordingly, if not force it out. I've seen a lot of people put it in B tier, and while im 70% certain in the long term this is where Barbaracle will end up, I do think its A tier at the moment because it can win games on the spot. Also if anyone is playing Mega Barbaracle, I would suggest using Poison Jab for coverage instead of Liquidation. as it checks Clefable attempting to wall it, while also checking Slurpuff (if that counts for something) and some Floette-Eternal sets.

(mega)
I clicked Defog like a dunce on this guy and proceded to get swept by a Mega Malamar who had full atk/def boost and had a 1.67x evasion boost. They say defeat is the best teacher, and I wont forget it anytime soon. I would say more on the ability, but considering how bad Mega Malamar's stat spread is, i think its justified. Though i wouldnt mind seeing Psychic Surge be given a try in the future.

(mega)
we shouldn't of laughed at mega starmie after finding out that it gets pure power huh... anyway this is probably top 3 mega in the format. Not many answers aside from maybe max sp.def Volcanion but thats too specific. Could be too overbearing down the line, but we might be able to wait for the ZA dlc. I wouldn't mind giving it the Houndstone treatment where we ban it until the DLC where it will likely gain more checks, but i don't think thats neccessary at the moment given the evil green snake bullying the tier.


I really don't like fighting this mon. its ability makes it really passive, and I've seen nothing but sub-cm, or at least passive cm sets, on ladder and it sucks ass to deal with, but deal with it I have. Ontop of its passivity, it has a pocket nuke that it can unleash at any time, assuming it can take the recoil, but this pocket nuke is also a pocket water balloon since I havent seen it take a KO yet. I would suggest giving it a different ability, or at least remove the part where it hurts Mega pokemon specifically. Silver bullet/lock-and-key mechanics are no fun.

(mega)
Im starting to think this mon is a bit overhyped. I've seen maybe one mega greninja that was actually threatening, but the rest of them fell over. Battle Bond, on the other hand...


Battle Bond is crazy in this format. It just does its job so well game to game when it comes into play and is basically a mini-shell smash for how frail this format is. Flip Turn is also amazing and there should be no reason to run U-turn on it... (i say as i immediately get punished by a u-turn greninja). But for real, Greninja is very strong.


its unique tools of priority hazards makes this mon a very good lead... but the thing is, i don't think meowstic is as good as people say. I don't know if Meowstic can do much else other then priority hazards on lead, but its pretty easy to set up against lead Meowstic, forcing it out or putting opponents in an awkward position.

(mostly reg but i also talk about mega here)
Excadrill is absolutely amazing this format. Its so good, ive been running it alongside Mega Barbaracle with Mega Excadrill, and they completement each other quite nicely, from my experience. Mega Excadrill is capable of sweeping under Sand when Barbaracle cant find a safe Shell Smash or has had its sweep cut short (usually due to Priority i.e. Aegislash's shadow sneak), while Mega Barbaracle threatens a sweep while giving Excadrill the ability to clean up. Its absolutely everywhere and is probably one of the most influential Pokemon in this meta. It's also pretty healthy in my opinion.


Very reliable defogger, except against Malamar, do NOT defog infront of Malamar. Ive been running a set of Toxic, Brave Bird, Stealth Rocks and Defog, and it seems fairly reliable Pokemon all around.

&
Unfortunately, my man Aggron probably won't be viable, even with Body Press. Mega Chesnaught seems to be just a better body press user overall, and base Chesnaught isn't half bad either, so unless Aggron recieves some crazy buff during the DLC or Gen 10, future ain't looking so bright, at least for OU potential.


I've seen this thing on lead, and it seems to uh... not do that much. I get there aren't many other options for its role - lead on sticky web teams - but Slurpuff has not impressed me in the slightest. Has a lot of issues that Meowstic has as a lead.

That's it for now. Back to Shell Smashing!

Edit: Okay after viewing the discussion regarding Mega Greninja, chances are I havent seen its full potential. If i bother to remember i'll update my thoughts on Mega Gren and will try it for a bit to see what the fuss is up about.

 

[80DollarsIsCrazy]

would Corrosion + Toxic Debris on be broken on Victreebel?

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

would Corrosion + Toxic Debris on be broken on Victreebel?

no, but IMO that would feel like some sort of fangame ability. The point is to predict the abilities for megas, not make something super strong and then be disappointed when the actual abilities come out and are weaker

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

(mega)
Easily my favorite new mega, and oh my goodness has it met my expectations and surpassed them. This guy is an absolutely CRACKED sweeper with Shell Smash, but that is to be expected considering Shell Smash's history. Its especially good under Sandstorm because the 50% sp.def boost Rock types get during one is invaluable. I think I've won at least 4 games because Barbaracle survived a special attack while setting up a Shell Smash under Sandstorm it definitely wouldn't have. I've also found success with it punishing really passive leads like Slurpuff and Meowstic, so that defintiely helps its case. As much as I want to further glaze Mega Barbaracle, I will mention that it isn't broken, despite Shell Smash. Priority is often the best answer to a sweeping Mega Barbaracle, and ive also seen the occasional switch move which is also decently effective. I'm also certain its possible to play around the Shell Smash and punish it accordingly, if not force it out. I've seen a lot of people put it in B tier, and while im 70% certain in the long term this is where Barbaracle will end up, I do think its A tier at the moment because it can win games on the spot. Also if anyone is playing Mega Barbaracle, I would suggest using Poison Jab for coverage instead of Liquidation. as it checks Clefable attempting to wall it, while also checking Slurpuff (if that counts for something) and some Floette-Eternal sets.

I also love Mega Barb, I've been running it for a few dozen games. My favorite part is the tech where you don't mega so you stay Rock/Water, which lets you live a water/psychic/steel hit and get off a Shell Smash. You can also live against unboosted Mega Greninja and oneshot with CC, which has saved me several times (although if you're Megad and already used Shell Smash then you probably just die to Water Shuriken's priority)

Barbaracle-Mega @ Barbaracite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Night Slash/Poison Jab/Liquidation

pretty fun, you can run 0 Spe, or 32 Spe to hit 220 = 440 after shell smash to beat MAero. I never ran into MAero so I would personally go 252 HP 252 Ark 4 SpD

Night Slash hits Slowbro/Glowking and the occasional Aegislash, and gives you a chance to kill Gourgeist if you run into the one guy who uses it.
PJab is for clef/floette as stardustspy said. (I don't use Liquidation, but it would be useful if there is a low HP mon that you want to finish off without dropping with CC or stone missing... or if someone runs Hippo or Mega Camel)