Serious LGBTQ

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Can I say that I am confused? I am sorry. I am getting the feeling that you are answering my questions. But I don't seem to understand them. Either my level of understanding is not sufficient to comprehend your explanation, or your thought process is far too superior for me to follow. I am happy that you took the time to explain it to me, but I could only grasp a few points.

- Classification is necessary for distribution of resources. This again means, it makes administration an easy thing. Now by letting ourselves classified, aren't we giving the administrators the power/right to determine what we should or shouldn't do? Like I enter my sex as Male, so I should be in the boys hostel? Lol, I am not saying that I should be in the girls hostel. Although, I wouldn't mind ^_^ But you get my point? Letting ourselves get classified leads to societal stereotypes that leads to prejudice and judgmental folks and that leads to a society of fakers. I am not saying all of us are that way, but we are not being true to ourselves because of various external reasons.

- So if most of us are not purely straight. Then why do we classify LGBT as a separate community? Wouldn't LGBT be the standard community and Heterosexuals the minority? I think that is what you have said. So again this means that the stereotypes drive our identity of self. That stereotype which has evolved due to us classifying each other. Imo, this classification of humanity has to be restructured or dissolved. Restructuring would only lead to a repeat of the cycle. Lets say, that LGBT becomes the standard community. Then wouldn't there be a time (way forward in the future), where heterosexuals would fear to identify themselves? Imo, lets keep things simple and have no classification at all.

One other point is that, lets say we classify LGBT and Heterosexuals. How do we know that, there wouldn't be other communities in the future? What if (it may be possible, and there are rumors that it is), there are folks who identify themselves as animals and live like one in their lifetime. The classification of communities are the reasons for disputes in all forms (resources, life partners and everything). We should accept each other as unique and respect each other for who we are, atleast I feel that this is the way we could solve this societal problem of prejudice and sexual discrimination.

So two major questions that are in my mind are:
1) Why do we need to classify ourselves? Is it something we need, or is it to make someone lead us? Wouldn't that give someone the power to manipulate us? Like a person with a political agenda talks to a community with a majority of LGBT and claims to be an LGBT for getting elected to a position of power?

2) Instead of differentiating ourselves from others in a community, can't we accept each others' choice of living and be friendly with all parts of our community? If folks differentiate themselves as LGBT, wouldn't that create a feeling of hatred within the folks who are left out? For example: Lets say there is a community of 10 people. 7 folks identify themselves as LGBT. 1 person identifies themselves as asexual (Indifferent / No interest in sexuality), 1 person is a hetero female and 1 person is a hetero male. Now the hetero female likes a person who has identified themselves as Bisexual. The bisexual likes the Hetero male, but the Hetero male wants to be sexually involved only with the Hetero female. I am sure that there would be a hatred developed by the Hetero male cause he would be left out as pair less, due to his idea of self and his sexual preference.

But if there was no classification, Then the Hetero male would have no prejudice towards a Gay Male or a Bisexual. I am obviously ignoring a lot of possibilities and I am sure I must have missed a few things. But I hope you get my point.

Actually, my doubts are extensive and that is the reason I wanted to talk to someone personally. I tried to talk to a friend who identified themselves as a Transgender. But she was not comfortable about it or was not sure if she could answer me properly. Again, my knowledge on the community is extremely limited, because in my country it is taboo to even talk about it. Lol, me posting my views on this thread is in itself enough to give my parents a shock. Well, can't blame them. They have been living in a society where folks are narrow minded. Sadly, I was a part of that bunch too. But I have learned to respect people for who they are. Folks in smogon are a great help. Thanks folks!
 
Identity politics is interesting and has led to complications I didn't at all expect when laying my cards on the table (the ace version of coming out).

Basically, at some point in the future it would be ideal that people just recognized that human sexuality has no easy categories or boxes or anything and really consists of different points on several different continuities more than a few separate categories. But identifying with a word does have a certain bit of power, and is necessary for now.

There is an underlying societal assumption that everyone is "normal" unless proven otherwise. I understand that what you, and many other well-meaning people I've met, would just like to chock up everything as "normal" and be done with it. Just be who you want to be! Unfortunately, that's not how people learn the world and you can't reach that point until a critical mass of people actually believes that. Currently "normal" effectively means cisgendered heterosexual heteroromantic. Kids grow up expecting this of themselves because that's what they've been taught is normal. And being different from normal actually kind of sucks and can lead to a lot of self-loathing in the wrong circumstances because there's also a subtle societal assumption that normal is normal for a reason other than statistics and that, even if you accept that your difference is OK, society probably won't. So there's a tremendous relief in finding out that there's a name for what your difference is, and a whole group of people who are more or less in that category, and that in your own way you fit a type of "normal."

So, yes, at some point I would really love it if we got rid of labels or acknowledged them as something along the lines of eye color, especially since permanent classifications aren't terribly useful for gender identity and sexuality which can be rather fluid. But at present building awareness for and community around different alternatives to cisgendered heteroromantic heterosexuality is basically the best that can be done to give people a sense that they're not broken or even particularly unique. They just fit a different mold. And there's nothing wrong with that.

From a political standpoint, it also helps with advancing causes. There's a power in numbers that can convince society that rather than a group of individual freaks, some communities actually are relatively large groups of people who share similar experiences and collectively aren't broken or even very different from the current standard of normalcy.



But speaking of fluidity earlier, I'm increasingly beginning to think I might be pretty gender fluid. Like, I remember when I was very young I didn't really think of gender as a permanent thing that would always be with me. I know that in elementary school I more than passingly believed that at some points in my life I would be a girl and in some I would be a boy, and that even when I acknowledged that this was wrong I still couldn't shake the thought that it was right. After that I've noticed that I actually find it incredibly hard to identify as male when thinking about myself at some points, but at others it feels really, really weird to think of myself as a girl. And then as I got older I've been far more than idly curious about how my body would look if it were female and even developed a girl name for myself I occasionally use mentally. And then my inability to really grow out long hair (mine's really curly and just gets denser and a little puffier) actually bothered me for a while since I wanted it to look more feminine, and I've increasingly started thinking of what the most androgynous thing I can do with my hair is. I'm perfectly comfortable as a male most of the time, but there are points where I would also really like to be female... and those can come within a few hours of each other. And I'm pretty sure I'm not trans because the thought of permanently transitioning doesn't sit right with me at all, so for now I'm just going to think about this further and do some more reading. Even if I decide I am I probably won't tell my family because I got a pretty harsh reception over asexuality and I'm not sure anyone who actually knows me irl needs to know.

EDIT: Didn't initially read your second post, Gale Wing Srock . There might be a reason your friend didn't answer you very well. It can actually be really offensive to some people irl if you ask them why they need to identify themselves. At best you're questioning if they really needed to make one of the hardest decision in their life at all, which is incredibly condescending, and at worst they might think you're denying or playing down the existence of the community they've finally come to identify with after years of questioning and self-doubt. Either way, please don't try and start this discussion in real life.
 
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Folks, I'm sorry that I'm leaving this cluster-- I'm probably straight.
I think I misdiagnosed myself into thinking that I might be bisexual. No, I wouldn't want to spend my life with another woman, and this probably indicates that I'm straight.

But nonetheless, thanks for all the information you have given to me. They are very interesting, and I think I can continue to spread awareness even when I'm straight.
 
you should be aware of the difference between sexual attraction and romantic attraction (if you aren't already). you might be sexually attracted to men and women but only romantically attracted to men.
 
Thanks for answering Rediamond, now I understand the concept of community creation and why we need to categorize ourselves. Although, as you mentioned it ought to be temporary. But the sad part is, it never will be.

I would like to believe that Religion was a way for us humans to satisfy our curiosity of the world around us. What we couldn't answer with knowledge, we treated them as the work of god (Which may or may not be true, I am not arguing for either ITT).

So similarly, if we couldn't categorize people we met, we named them abnormal. This attitude would never change, unless we stop categorizing people. Because no matter how many communities are formed, every community would treat each other or a new minority as abnormal.

It would be so cool if we don't see people as different, and we see them as part of our family. What is wrong if someone has four hands? What is wrong if someone has one eye? What is wrong if someone has two hearts? What is wrong if someone could not talk / hear / smell? The process of categorizing people and telling folks that you are "this" now go and be with "this" kind of folks is a big problem that we have as humans. And unless we solve this problem of ours, nothing would change in the world. We would just create another small circle that would end up criticizing another small circle that would emerge due to categorization or inversion of the minority.

Edit: I am not saying that we shouldn't have communities where we help each other in solving our problems. But we shouldn't create them on an any specific category. Folks who live in a home should love and respect each other and folks who live in a region should help each other fulfill their needs (Medicine, food, clothing, Entertainment, Sex etc ...) The world is running that way already, but we are categorizing people currently, which makes us be partial towards our specific group. Impartial people are ill-treated by the same people who categorized them as their own. Why does this happen? Because we have a solid classification system. 'You are a christian, so go to church' kind of attitude.
 
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“It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences.”
"“Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare."
“Without community, there is no liberation...but community must not mean a shedding of our differences, nor the pathetic pretense that these differences do not exist.”
“When we define ourselves, when I define myself, the place in which I am like you and the place in which I am not like you, I'm not excluding you from the joining - I'm broadening the joining.”
“When the desire for definition, self or otherwise, comes out of a desire for limitation rather than a desire for expansion, no true face can emerge.”
 
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Reading the decision was incredibly frustrating, as were the dissents. Scalia so mad and incoherent in his dissent, even as he points out how incoherent the prevailing opinion is. The decision's reasoning affirms the christian/neoliberal marriage project that refuses to attend to poverty at any level other than the married couple. Also it makes marriage sound gross

Seeing all the white ppl on my facebook who post for this but not for #blacklivesmatter or even #femmelivesmatter or acting like this was a 'victory' for them, this song captures a lot of my feels:

 
Happy gay day, everyone! One step at a time. :D

Watch out though, I got roped into an argument with a friend's great grandma on facebook this morning... lol
 
Now if only we also lived in a country where you can't face discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodation, etc etc

Still, though, I haven't been able to wipe the grin off my face all day.
 
astroboy said:
what ended up with that straight couple who threatened to get divorce if gay marriage in their state, or the priest who would set himself on fire
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I know this is just a minor thing but reports of a pastor vowing to self-immolate himself were greatly exaggerated

I mean it doesn't mean he's not an insensitive bigot but still, ridiculing him for a promise he never even made feels weird to me

also #LoveWins! :)
 
Rugi said:
MEANWHILE IN AUSTRALIA
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That man's face makes me feel a bit threatened

but in all seriousness tho congratulations, this is a great day and although it doesnt mean everyone is equal, its a great step towards equality. Also homophobes are hilarious and I cant wait to to hear their reactions
 
Okay, so some great news! I finally came out of the closet today. Contrary to the way I behave on here, I'm not really flamboyant in real life. After the news about legalization, I realized I was done hiding. Of course my family could've guessed, and all of my friends could infer, but I had never actually told anyone. I had accepted my sexuality, however, and I was just so terrified of not being accepted. So today, at a theater camp I was working at (counselor), I called my sister and told her. We're incredibly close, so it was easy, but I still broke down crying. I then proceeded to call my aunt, who I am also very close with. We discussed it, and then a few hours later after I thought everything was right, I just... Told my mom. Our conversation:

Me: I'm gay.
Mom: Okay? That doesn't change you at all...
Me: Uh, really?
Mom: Yes. I love you regardless.

Like. Best fucking reaction ever! I told my dad afterwards as well. I expected him to be very upset and disappointed, but he just said he wouldn't judge me at all. He was just shocked, and he was worried he would offend me. Total opposite of what I expected, as I had always thought of him as homophobic. Apparently it's the total opposite. I have to say. It feels. Amazing. Excellent. A huge weight lifted off of my shoulders and it wasn't even as hard as I had been so worried about for so many years. Being out is so comforting, and having two parents who support me is just. I'm crying tears of happiness writing this post, today has been, quite honestly, one of (if not the) the best days in my entire life. I encourage all people to come out. When you're ready, not by anybody's terms. Because honestly, there's nothing to be ashamed of.

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I've been gone for a while because of a broken computer, but man what a WONDERFUL thing to come back to!

Excellent job Supreme Court, today is a victory for human rights! Hopefully LGBTQ rights can spread further around the globe in our life times! Also, hopefully now that gay marriage is legal in all of the US, we can work on improving their place in society too, because as we can see with sexism and racism, homophobia sadly won't just "go away".
 
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unfixable said:
Okay, so some great news! I finally came out of the closet today. Contrary to the way I behave on here, I'm not really flamboyant in real life. After the news about legalization, I realized I was done hiding. Of course my family could've guessed, and all of my friends could infer, but I had never actually told anyone. I had accepted my sexuality, however, and I was just so terrified of not being accepted. So today, at a theater camp I was working at (counselor), I called my sister and told her. We're incredibly close, so it was easy, but I still broke down crying. I then proceeded to call my aunt, who I am also very close with. We discussed it, and then a few hours later after I thought everything was right, I just... Told my mom. Our conversation:

Me: I'm gay.
Mom: Okay? That doesn't change you at all...
Me: Uh, really?
Mom: Yes. I love you regardless.

Like. Best fucking reaction ever! I told my dad afterwards as well. I expected him to be very upset and disappointed, but he just said he wouldn't judge me at all. He was just shocked, and he was worried he would offend me. Total opposite of what I expected, as I had always thought of him as homophobic. Apparently it's the total opposite. I have to say. It feels. Amazing. Excellent. A huge weight lifted off of my shoulders and it wasn't even as hard as I had been so worried about for so many years. Being out is so comforting, and having two parents who support me is just. I'm crying tears of happiness writing this post, today has been, quite honestly, one of (if not the) the best days in my entire life. I encourage all people to come out. When you're ready, not by anybody's terms. Because honestly, there's nothing to be ashamed of.

pride_heart.png
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Yay! Congrats :) Intentionally outing yourself is such a huge step compared to being effectively thrown out of the closet (I don't think that I could do it)! I'm as proud as a Smogon acquaintance can be <3

Funnily enough, my bf's parents reacted exactly the same. His Mom gave a "so what? Where are the groceries?" and his seemingly cold and homophobic dad gave the "I loved you before, so I don't see why that would change now" haha having accepting parents is a blessing!

Also, you kind of cheated. You already came out by taking the job of 'theater camp counseler' herp derp ;) :)


theorymon said:
I've been out for a while because of a broken computer,
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Technology puts such a damper on homosexuality. It's easy to come out of the closet when there's nothing better to do. Good for you! ;)
 
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MikeDawg said:
Yay! Congrats :) Intentionally outing yourself is such a huge step compared to being effectively thrown out of the closet (I don't think that I could do it)! I'm as proud as a Smogon acquaintance can be <3

Funnily enough, my bf's parents reacted exactly the same. His Mom gave a "so what? Where are the groceries?" and his seemingly cold and homophobic dad gave the "I loved you before, so I don't see why that would change now" haha having accepting parents is a blessing!

Also, you kind of cheated. You already came out by taking the job of 'theater camp counseler' herp derp ;) :)




Technology puts such a damper on homosexuality. It's easy to come out of the closet when there's nothing better to do. Good for you! :)
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Rofl I meant out as in gone, I'm actually straight :P

But regardless, I'm just as happy about these coming out stories :D
 
Don't normally scroll down this far on the forums but thought I'd pop in to say FUCK YEAH! to our American LGBTQ members!
Great day for you guys and I can now seriously consider going to Las Vegas and getting married to my bf by Elvis!
 
And once again the country's laws shift ever more in favor of true equality. It's about damn time. Congrats to the LGBT community on this victory!
 
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