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Hi it's me.

I have been a very open and staunch aro/ace person for a while now, but lately I've been kind of questioning how true that is. And I feel kind of guilty about that?

For some context, I went through a traumatic experience that left me very anxious and sort of grossed out by the idea of having any sort of intimate relationship with other people, romantically or sexually. The feeling persisted for a very long time and I eventually settled on it being aromanticism/asexuality, just falling into the box of not really being interested and not really wanting anything to do with that side of life.

But my mental health has been steadily improving and along with it, I find that I have a sort of budding desire for human connection and intimacy. They are weird feelings to unpack. I have a lot of anxiety around these things still, but more and more I find myself wanting to explore them, especially on the sexuality side of things. Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me.

I guess where this all culminates for me is in a few places: I'm interested in trying things out, and that leaves me unsure of where I stand. I haven't tried to label anything beyond understanding the sorts of partners I'd be okay with, because I find this tangled mess of thoughts and feelings difficult to put a word to besides "curious." But the other side of that is I feel kind of bad for being in aro/ace spaces and claiming that label if it's not really the person I am, and I feel like I'm reinforcing negative stereotypes about aro/ace people by being like "well now that I'm not a depressed sack of potatoes anymore I want to try exploring my sexuality."

A bit of a ramble but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks and just sort of wanted to get it off my chest.
 
Hi it's me.

I have been a very open and staunch aro/ace person for a while now, but lately I've been kind of questioning how true that is. And I feel kind of guilty about that?

For some context, I went through a traumatic experience that left me very anxious and sort of grossed out by the idea of having any sort of intimate relationship with other people, romantically or sexually. The feeling persisted for a very long time and I eventually settled on it being aromanticism/asexuality, just falling into the box of not really being interested and not really wanting anything to do with that side of life.

But my mental health has been steadily improving and along with it, I find that I have a sort of budding desire for human connection and intimacy. They are weird feelings to unpack. I have a lot of anxiety around these things still, but more and more I find myself wanting to explore them, especially on the sexuality side of things. Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me.

I guess where this all culminates for me is in a few places: I'm interested in trying things out, and that leaves me unsure of where I stand. I haven't tried to label anything beyond understanding the sorts of partners I'd be okay with, because I find this tangled mess of thoughts and feelings difficult to put a word to besides "curious." But the other side of that is I feel kind of bad for being in aro/ace spaces and claiming that label if it's not really the person I am, and I feel like I'm reinforcing negative stereotypes about aro/ace people by being like "well now that I'm not a depressed sack of potatoes anymore I want to try exploring my sexuality."

A bit of a ramble but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks and just sort of wanted to get it off my chest.
It’s kinda like when gay come out as bi, they face a lot of backlash, its one of the unhealthy parts of my community
If u are starting to feel attraction then mabye u were aro/ace but not anymore
Its not like its by birth
 
Hi it's me.

I have been a very open and staunch aro/ace person for a while now, but lately I've been kind of questioning how true that is. And I feel kind of guilty about that?

For some context, I went through a traumatic experience that left me very anxious and sort of grossed out by the idea of having any sort of intimate relationship with other people, romantically or sexually. The feeling persisted for a very long time and I eventually settled on it being aromanticism/asexuality, just falling into the box of not really being interested and not really wanting anything to do with that side of life.

But my mental health has been steadily improving and along with it, I find that I have a sort of budding desire for human connection and intimacy. They are weird feelings to unpack. I have a lot of anxiety around these things still, but more and more I find myself wanting to explore them, especially on the sexuality side of things. Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me.

I guess where this all culminates for me is in a few places: I'm interested in trying things out, and that leaves me unsure of where I stand. I haven't tried to label anything beyond understanding the sorts of partners I'd be okay with, because I find this tangled mess of thoughts and feelings difficult to put a word to besides "curious." But the other side of that is I feel kind of bad for being in aro/ace spaces and claiming that label if it's not really the person I am, and I feel like I'm reinforcing negative stereotypes about aro/ace people by being like "well now that I'm not a depressed sack of potatoes anymore I want to try exploring my sexuality."

A bit of a ramble but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks and just sort of wanted to get it off my chest.
As an aro/ace person with curious intimacy dynamics, as far as I care, you stand with us in our crew unless you decide another crew fits you better. If that happens, you'll be a friend across the pond in the broader shared group of LGBT, or even just the shared group of humanity. Please join our spaces - part of the social understanding of these spaces is that they're flexible for people who may be a member long-term, but may not be a member long-term, and we care more about you finding your way for your real self than some kinda unfeeling rule enforcement. You can join an art club if you're not sure you're gonna be a painter long-term, there's no contract where you have to commit to paint 5 years to stay a member. We're just happy you're figuring out how you want to live your life, and if we can help you and bring fellowship, or if another swell community can, all the merrier.

Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me
Big relatable! Expressing my feelings of any kind is a clusterfuck. What I think it boils down to is this. Everyone has different ways they feel, express, and intake love, and part of the fun and glory of relationships is learning how to intake love from someone who expresses it differently than you, and having your own expressions of love taken in by another.

I know some of what I said might've been something you've heard before. I get it. Saying and hearing things is easier than internalizing them, and I've for sure seen the other end of that dynamic too. But I think it should be said anyway, cause it can help to hear something again that you're not all the way to accepting yet. And also it's true, and the truth is important.
 
Hi it's me.

I have been a very open and staunch aro/ace person for a while now, but lately I've been kind of questioning how true that is. And I feel kind of guilty about that?

For some context, I went through a traumatic experience that left me very anxious and sort of grossed out by the idea of having any sort of intimate relationship with other people, romantically or sexually. The feeling persisted for a very long time and I eventually settled on it being aromanticism/asexuality, just falling into the box of not really being interested and not really wanting anything to do with that side of life.

But my mental health has been steadily improving and along with it, I find that I have a sort of budding desire for human connection and intimacy. They are weird feelings to unpack. I have a lot of anxiety around these things still, but more and more I find myself wanting to explore them, especially on the sexuality side of things. Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me.

I guess where this all culminates for me is in a few places: I'm interested in trying things out, and that leaves me unsure of where I stand. I haven't tried to label anything beyond understanding the sorts of partners I'd be okay with, because I find this tangled mess of thoughts and feelings difficult to put a word to besides "curious." But the other side of that is I feel kind of bad for being in aro/ace spaces and claiming that label if it's not really the person I am, and I feel like I'm reinforcing negative stereotypes about aro/ace people by being like "well now that I'm not a depressed sack of potatoes anymore I want to try exploring my sexuality."

A bit of a ramble but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks and just sort of wanted to get it off my chest.
Hi. Hope you don't mind me responding.




I identified as ace for several years, staunchly, about as firmly and openly as possible. I was fully confident that was just who I was. Like you expressed, throughout that period, my mental health was Rocky At Best, and there was a very deep-seated and trauma-informed anxiety and insecurity around sexuality that was very difficult for me to address. I didn't want to, so I didn't, and I found comfort in that choice for a very long time. I never identified as aro for very long, though that likely came from having the same long-term partner before, during, and now after the period in which I identified as part of the aro/ace community.

Eventually, though, about a year and a half or so ago, I reached a point, I'm not even quite sure where or when, that it was obvious I wanted to at least try something more. I was curious. And my mental health was in a good enough place where I felt like I could safely and healthily navigate the anxieties I still felt with a partner and figure out what works for me and what doesn't. So I did. Turns out, I was "just" depressed and very traumatized, and I actually had a lovely little sexuality I was happy to explore. Good news! but also kind of a rough realization after years of thinking something about yourself that now feels untrue.

Made me feel more than slightly guilty for the years I spent saying otherwise. More than slightly guilty for changing my mind, so to speak, or like I had no place in the ace community in Any capacity. Spent a long time working through that too, and I guess from mostly on the other side, my perspective is that it's good to just take things slow, explore what you want to, and with who you want to, and don't put the labeling cart before the feeling horse, so to speak. The ace community is so warmly welcoming of all forms of nuance, and although I see myself as fully separate now, I know there's plenty of room for people trying to reassess where they might stand. The words that have stuck with me are that it's only as deep as we want it to be.

As far as the reinforcing stereotypes part, I feel that hard. For me, now fully outside the community and as someone who identified with asexuality as a teenager, this hits hard. I've come to think of it as a similar idea to, I think, detransitioning. I can see myself today as a non-asexual lesbian and still fight for the ace community, support ace voices, have a fondness for the safety and comfort the label of asexuality gave to me for years, and accept it's not me anymore. I can hold in my heart that it was me for a long time and now it just doesn't work for the life I want to have. It's only reinforcing those negative vitriolic viewpoints if that's what we choose to do with it, and that's an easy thing to avoid. Plenty of people out there are ace and I support em all, even, maybe even especially, as I've found it's not for me.
 
this is sorta a silly question maybe, but how do i know what gender i am?
to know if someone else is, say, a woman i would ask them whether they are a woman but of course asking myself whether i am a woman doesn't really help me know if i am a woman.
i've been asked before whether i feel like a woman, but how would i know what it feels like to be a woman? similarly, if i'm asked whether i want to be considered a woman i don't know how to answer that besides "depends, what's a woman?"
i've vaguely been considering myself agender because i don't have emotions towards gendered terms in general, but i feel like that's because i don't really know what those terms mean - if i knew what a woman was i might want to be one, for instance.
i could just assume i'm cis but i have some objections to the idea that being cis is a default. similarly i could go off my presentation but my presentation i feel is just habit and besides i don't think there's any particular link between any presentation and any gender.
maybe a woman is someone who has a preference for the term "woman" independent of what it means?
 
Hi it's me.

I have been a very open and staunch aro/ace person for a while now, but lately I've been kind of questioning how true that is. And I feel kind of guilty about that?

For some context, I went through a traumatic experience that left me very anxious and sort of grossed out by the idea of having any sort of intimate relationship with other people, romantically or sexually. The feeling persisted for a very long time and I eventually settled on it being aromanticism/asexuality, just falling into the box of not really being interested and not really wanting anything to do with that side of life.

But my mental health has been steadily improving and along with it, I find that I have a sort of budding desire for human connection and intimacy. They are weird feelings to unpack. I have a lot of anxiety around these things still, but more and more I find myself wanting to explore them, especially on the sexuality side of things. Romance is in a very strange place because I'm not super sure how to navigate the sort of feelings and gestures people tend to expect from romance because I've never been good at feelings in general - expressing things like "happy" and "sad" have always been difficult and so something like "romance" or "love" is very alien to me.

I guess where this all culminates for me is in a few places: I'm interested in trying things out, and that leaves me unsure of where I stand. I haven't tried to label anything beyond understanding the sorts of partners I'd be okay with, because I find this tangled mess of thoughts and feelings difficult to put a word to besides "curious." But the other side of that is I feel kind of bad for being in aro/ace spaces and claiming that label if it's not really the person I am, and I feel like I'm reinforcing negative stereotypes about aro/ace people by being like "well now that I'm not a depressed sack of potatoes anymore I want to try exploring my sexuality."

A bit of a ramble but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks and just sort of wanted to get it off my chest.
i'm an organizer in the swedish ace space; we had a gathering earlier today and a lot of people attending expressed how difficult it was to land in their current label and how much it had evolved over time - in this instance a common shared experience was identifying as gay into straight into gay into homoromantic ace. what adeleine says is true - there is a lot of flexibility in ways of identifying within the members, and you can join that too. nobody is harmed if you join a community and later decide that it was not a perfect fit - you evolved, which is great! don't worry about what you may or may not feel in the future with regards to your orientation(s). try engaging in some online ace spaces and share your situation, i think you will find it a welcoming experience.
 
this is sorta a silly question maybe, but how do i know what gender i am?
to know if someone else is, say, a woman i would ask them whether they are a woman but of course asking myself whether i am a woman doesn't really help me know if i am a woman.
i've been asked before whether i feel like a woman, but how would i know what it feels like to be a woman? similarly, if i'm asked whether i want to be considered a woman i don't know how to answer that besides "depends, what's a woman?"
i've vaguely been considering myself agender because i don't have emotions towards gendered terms in general, but i feel like that's because i don't really know what those terms mean - if i knew what a woman was i might want to be one, for instance.
i could just assume i'm cis but i have some objections to the idea that being cis is a default. similarly i could go off my presentation but my presentation i feel is just habit and besides i don't think there's any particular link between any presentation and any gender.
maybe a woman is someone who has a preference for the term "woman" independent of what it means?
Honestly, pronouns are a human creation, the reason this matters is sexism. Will edit more later

That being said, they do matter, and we can’t change that soon,
So if ur asking this question ur probably nb.

Lmk if I read it wrong
 
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There are other reasons pronouns and gender matter besides sexism. As a trans person, I'd rather not get rid of pronouns and gender, and I am not alone on that front, both for trans people and cis people. I'd be careful about how broad one's generalizations are.

E: it’s fine, all good

I don't have a ton insightful to say on the original post. Knowing one's gender–if one has one–a totally fair question that lots of people grapple with. Some people, cis and trans, just 'know' it innately. Their conceptualization of gender may be incompletely formed, but it's strong enough, and applicable enough to them, that they innately know which gender (if any) applies to them. I was in this boat – once I became materially aware of trans people, I very quickly realized that "girl" was what I wanted to be.

I wouldn't presume to know your identity better than you, but you lacking an innate conceptualization of these terms reads as agender to me - gender does not seem to mean a lot to you, at least at this stage, and it of course is not something you have to identify with. Just as true, if you build an understanding of gender and identify more strongly with one (or multiple), that's rad too.
 
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this is sorta a silly question maybe, but how do i know what gender i am?
to know if someone else is, say, a woman i would ask them whether they are a woman but of course asking myself whether i am a woman doesn't really help me know if i am a woman.
i've been asked before whether i feel like a woman, but how would i know what it feels like to be a woman? similarly, if i'm asked whether i want to be considered a woman i don't know how to answer that besides "depends, what's a woman?"
i've vaguely been considering myself agender because i don't have emotions towards gendered terms in general, but i feel like that's because i don't really know what those terms mean - if i knew what a woman was i might want to be one, for instance.
i could just assume i'm cis but i have some objections to the idea that being cis is a default. similarly i could go off my presentation but my presentation i feel is just habit and besides i don't think there's any particular link between any presentation and any gender.
maybe a woman is someone who has a preference for the term "woman" independent of what it means?
honestly i feel this big time. i used to really solidly identify as a dude before i socially transitioned and lived as a girl for a year and now i'm back to presenting as a dude but it's just like-

i don't really feel pulled in any one way gender wise– i don't particularly feel any dysphoria or hatred of myself or my body (like you said, it's just habit atp), i just feel very solidly meh. it does make me feel a little lost sometimes, especially bc i feel like ppl really expect you to conform one way or another, especially cis ppl, so it's just super easy to feel out of place or like you're doing something wrong by not strictly inhabiting one or the other. i used to feel really strongly that i was a woman and wanted to be perceived as such by others because that was how i perceived myself, but now i just feel kind of directionless. is it necessarily a bad thing? I don't think so, to me it just feels so awkward because we're living in a very rigid society when it comes to gender

idk gender to me has always been something that's so personal and intimate that it's hard to explain or even make sense of to yourself. sometimes i think it's just not even worth bothering about, but i know i have a lot of complex feelings about it and it truly does permeate everything.

i know this is kind of a non-answer, but honestly you don't have to know. if you don't feel very strongly about how you want to be percieved in terms of your gender then that's okay. to me, i'm not even quite sure how to describe how i identify to others without explaining an immense amount of personal information that i don't always wanna talk to everyone about.

to me it's just kinda messy yk?
 
There are other reasons pronouns and gender matter besides sexism. As a trans person, I'd rather not get rid of pronouns and gender, and I am not alone on that front, both for trans people and cis people. I'd be careful about how broad one's generalizations are.

I don't have a ton insightful to say on the original post. Knowing one's gender–if one has one–a totally fair question that lots of people grapple with. Some people, cis and trans, just 'know' it innately. Their conceptualization of gender may be incompletely formed, but it's strong enough, and applicable enough to them, that they innately know which gender (if any) applies to them. I was in this boat – once I became materially aware of trans people, I very quickly realized that "girl" was what I wanted to be.

I wouldn't presume to know your identity better than you, but you lacking an innate conceptualization of these terms reads as agender to me - gender does not seem to mean a lot to you, at least at this stage, and it of course is not something you have to identify with. Just as true, if you build an understanding of gender and identify more strongly with one (or multiple), that's rad too.
I honestly wrote it wrong

Sorry
 
I wouldn't presume to know your identity better than you, but you lacking an innate conceptualization of these terms reads as agender to me - gender does not seem to mean a lot to you, at least at this stage, and it of course is not something you have to identify with. Just as true, if you build an understanding of gender and identify more strongly with one (or multiple), that's rad too.

interesting, thanks. would you say that part of being a particular gender is having an innate conceptualization of what that term means?
 
good discussion above. anyone else finding judith butler's works really interesting?

i like to call myself a judith butler fan though i've not read as much as i'd like to of their stuff. i think gender performativity is really interesting, though i'd try to caution people against understanding it as like an ameliorative analysis - i'm not convinced it's sufficiently inclusive but it's also trying to define gender as people use the term rather than as people ought use the term

the definition of gender is a topic i'm generally interested in, i'm inclined to say right now that there's no understanding of gender possible that is sufficiently inclusive to be an acceptable definition

sorta off-topic but i'm a fan of haraway's cyborg as well
 
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I am a straight cis male but I do have advice if you’re having a hard time trying to come out


Obviously the scariest part about coming out is getting rejected by your family and friends but from what I’ve seen, your real ones are the ones who will accept you for who are you even if you come out, and that’s who you should stay close to forever. As a saying I’ve once heard “Just because you’re not a boy anymore doesn’t mean you’re not apart of the boys” or something like that (same saying can be said if you transition from a female to a male, you just need the correct pronouns obviously.)

The hard part is dealing with the actual rejection, especially from family. Like I said before, I’m not the most qualified person for this but if you ever wanted my thoughts, just cut them off asap if they don’t accept you for who you are. I know it can be jarring to cut off family but it’s your life and you shouldn’t dictate your life on what others think about you, and that goes for anything tbh.

If you do get rejected, just know that they’re always spaces like this one where you can find people who are in the situation you’re in, and can probably give you better advice then I ever could :P

But yea, stay safe, everyone!
 
I am a straight cis male but I do have advice if you’re having a hard time trying to come out


Obviously the scariest part about coming out is getting rejected by your family and friends but from what I’ve seen, your real ones are the ones who will accept you for who are you even if you come out, and that’s who you should stay close to forever. As a saying I’ve once heard “Just because you’re not a boy anymore doesn’t mean you’re not apart of the boys” or something like that (same saying can be said if you transition from a female to a male, you just need the correct pronouns obviously.)

The hard part is dealing with the actual rejection, especially from family. Like I said before, I’m not the most qualified person for this but if you ever wanted my thoughts, just cut them off asap if they don’t accept you for who you are. I know it can be jarring to cut off family but it’s your life and you shouldn’t dictate your life on what others think about you, and that goes for anything tbh.

If you do get rejected, just know that they’re always spaces like this one where you can find people who are in the situation you’re in, and can probably give you better advice then I ever could :P

But yea, stay safe, everyone!

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. I'm not out myself to my family because I'm well aware of what they would think of me. Instead of bothering with them, I just hang around spaces like this where I know people will understand and accept others for who they are. Though, I couldn't imagine how difficult it is for someone who is transgender, as that is something that is much harder to hide than just one's sexuality. However, people shouldn't have to hide themselves. Those who love them should love them unconditionally, no matter what their sexuality or gender may be. It still disgusts me to this day that parents and other family will abandon their loved one just because they want to be themselves. I fully agree on the cutting them off part, if possible. They aren't worth anybody's time if their love is that fragile. I think the advice you've given is great, and I think the community is always very happy to have allies like you, even if you may not be able to relate directly.
 
I was laid off today because of the economic crash and I highly suspect I was cut so quickly because I was out at work.

I was just about to sign a lease on an apartment and get back on my feet after the pandemic. I am completely and utterly destroyed, I don’t know if I have anything left to keep going.
 
I was laid off today because of the economic crash and I highly suspect I was cut so quickly because I was out at work.

I was just about to sign a lease on an apartment and get back on my feet after the pandemic. I am completely and utterly destroyed, I don’t know if I have anything left to keep going.

I know this is a lot easier to say when one isn't in the same position or knows exactly how bad the situation is, so I do want preface this with saying that I don't mean to come off as if I know what I'm talking about in any way, and if I do I apologize sincerely. I don't have experience with such a severe situation myself. When I've been in similar situations though, I've always told myself that I won't give them the satisfaction of giving up. Those in power would love nothing more than for many of us who aren't apart of their rich butt-buddy club to give up, and it's why they care little about who these economic cuts hurt. That spark of defiance has kept me going more times than I can count, however. It may seem impossible now, but I have to believe that there's always a way out of things. I truly hope you're able to recover, even if that may not seem viable at this point in time.
 
Gyarikkuho just sent me this thread so I might aswell share something about myself. I started realising that I was trans about 3 years ago, but it definitely took me some time to figure out where I wanted to go with it. I undersand gender as a social construct with no absolutes. Male and female are terms that people made up to categorize eachother. I decided that it shouldn't be my gender as assigned by others that determines how I should live. Instead it should be me and my way of life that determines my gender.
Even tho transition means changing yourself, I believe that the goal should not be an arbitrary gender role, but instead how you actually want to live. If that's all too complicated for you and you'd rather live in the comfort of your assigned gender with clearly defined norms and ideals, I respect that decision.
For me, I'd say I'm in the process of transitioning mtf. However, I don't say: "I'm a woman and therefore I want to be this way." I say: "I want to be this way, therefore I am a woman."
You're free to disagree. There are people with opinions very different than my own and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Edit: minor spelling and grammatical errors. I normally don't do this but this shit was embarrassing
 
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Gyarikkuho just sent me this thread so I might aswell share something about myself. I realising that I was trans like about 3 years ago, but it definitely took me some time to know where I wanted to go with it. I undersand gender as a social construct with no absolutes. Male and female are terms that people made up to categorize eachother. I decidet that it shouldn't be my gender as assigned by others that determines how I should live. Instead it should be me and my way of life that determines my gender.
Even tho transition means changing yourself, I believe that the goal should not be an arbitrary gender role, but instead how you actually want to live. If that's all too complicated for you and you'd rather live in the comfort of your assigned gender with clearly defined norms and ideals, I respect that decision.
For me, I'd say I'm in the process of transitioning mtf. However, I don't say: "I'm a woman and therefore I want to be this way." I say: "I want to be this way, therefore I am a woman."
You're free to disaggree. There are people with opinions very different than my own and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Well what does this say about people who don’t go either way. I think I might agree with you but the way u wrote it confused me.

Me personally, I agree that gender is a social construct, but I don’t get why that puts people in categories that have nothing to do with anything. Labeling ur gender on the way u wannna act really seems confusing based on what u said earlier. Anyways if this was how it worked id be trans but I’m nb.

Still, nice to hear your opinion and take on the matter, sorry that I came off as angry
 
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