Linked

After discussing quite a bit with other players, I have come to a decision, a combination of Super Fang + Seismic Toss/Night Shade in a link is Banned
Said combination has the ability to 2HKO the entire metagame barring ghost types, which can easily be worked around by running coverage on the mon (all pokemon with the combo of super fang + seismic toss get some way to deal with ghost types) In essence, it works as a sort of "LC Dragon Rage" in the meta, near uncounterable and broken, which is why it would be best if it was removed.

tagging Slayer95 to impliment this ban into the code
 
Since I'm on the fence about voting for either this or Averagemons, I'll ask: Is the metagame balanced enough to sustain a month of major playtime?
With Super Fang + Seismic Toss/Night Shade combo banned stall gains a little momentum, but Meag Gyardos is still a humongous threat to it, ripping through stall teams like paper. Whether it's balanced or not I'd leave up to your judgement, but it's definitely an offense oriented meta. That being said, there are so many fun and interesting possible strategies that could keep the meta from becoming stale throughout the month. I really like this meta and would love to see it become OMotM. Tbh it's really up to you though.
 
The next thing that should be suspected imo is Fake Out + U-turn/Volt Switch. The dual Scarf Ambipom + Infernape core doesn't give a team chance to move, which is pretty unfair imo. Especially Stall teams.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
The next thing that should be suspected imo is Fake Out + U-turn/Volt Switch. The dual Scarf Ambipom + Infernape core doesn't give a team chance to move, which is pretty unfair imo. Especially Stall teams.
Random Ghosts are immune to Fake Out, Protect exists to halt said momentum, and priority can be used as well (Fake Out/Ice Shard Weavile, Espeed/Aqua Jet Dragonite, Fake Out/Mach Punch Infernape, Brave Bird/Aerial Ace GW Talonflame, etc.)

fake out is limited to one per team.
Where is that? It doesn't say anything in the OP
 
After discussing quite a bit with other players, I have come to a decision, a combination of Super Fang + Seismic Toss/Night Shade in a link is Banned
Said combination has the ability to 2HKO the entire metagame barring ghost types, which can easily be worked around by running coverage on the mon (all pokemon with the combo of super fang + seismic toss get some way to deal with ghost types) In essence, it works as a sort of "LC Dragon Rage" in the meta, near uncounterable and broken, which is why it would be best if it was removed.

tagging Slayer95 to impliment this ban into the code
Done :]
 
Okay. Call me crazy here, but Hack Guy. Will you consider unbanning Aegislash? I have some reasons for this.

1. King's Shield (not linked obviously) is the perfect stop to Faketurn variants and Iron Head + Zen Headbutt Jirachi, so that people will think twice before attacking. It also helps to control Talonflame's banded Brave Bird + Aerial Ace that everyone uses.

2. With all the offensive powerhouse, 60/150/150 defenses isn't really that impressive considering everything hits you super hard. And its slow as hell. So I don't think it will be that broken here.

3. It might help to promote stall teams just because of reason #1.
 
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Here is a display of what Banded Talon can do in-game. It breaks through supposed counters like a nuke, causing major problems to my team and eventually making me lose. I am in support of an Aegi unban, because stall is really dead atm, especially with a certain Boomburst team I made (will probs post replay later). While Flare Blitz can #rekt Aegi, King's Shield would make players think twice before going all out offensive.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-2008830

EDIT: Slayer95 I didn't lead with Zapdos in this battle, but the code made me do it anyway. We did another battle and this is still occurring. Could you fix that please?
 
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Retagging Slayer95 because I heard tagging by edit button doesn't give you alerts (and I have the same problem. Send out Talonflame as first poke but Gliscor is being sent out instead).

I find that Dusclops with Trick Room + Memento works when used with this.

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough

Only got stopped by Unaware users. Other than that, almost nothing stop this, considering Mega Venusaur is rare. Aqua Jet unlinked means it outspeed Talonflame in Trick Room.

Also Snaquaza, why there is no Linked in Aqua?
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Retagging Slayer95 because I heard tagging by edit button doesn't give you alerts (and I have the same problem. Send out Talonflame as first poke but Gliscor is being sent out instead).

I find that Dusclops with Trick Room + Memento works when used with this.

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough

Only got stopped by Unaware users. Other than that, almost nothing stop this, considering Mega Venusaur is rare. Aqua Jet unlinked means it outspeed Talonflame in Trick Room.

Also Snaquaza, why there is no Linked in Aqua?
Since you're using it in Trick Room, you should run 0 speed IVs imo. Also, wouldn't Play Rough+Waterfall in the link below better? If you have used Memento, you either take minimal damage, or none at all since they switch allowing you to get up the BD, and then nuke them twice with your STABs instead of just once.
 
Okay. Call me crazy here, but Hack Guy. Will you consider unbanning Aegislash? I have some reasons for this.

1. King's Shield (not linked obviously) is the perfect stop to Faketurn variants and Iron Head + Zen Headbutt Jirachi, so that people will think twice before attacking. It also helps to control Talonflame's banded Brave Bird + Aerial Ace that everyone uses.

2. With all the offensive powerhouse, 60/150/150 defenses isn't really that impressive considering everything hits you super hard. And its slow as hell. So I don't think it will be that broken here.

3. It might help to promote stall teams just because of reason #1.
So, I am actually considering this as an option, but i'd like to know what opinions you guys have on this. Would unbanning aegislash be healthier for the meta overall?
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
So, I am actually considering this as an option, but i'd like to know what opinions you guys have on this. Would unbanning aegislash be healthier for the meta overall?
I'm not sure. On one hand, fakespam is discouraged.

On the other hand, Aegis actually will have 150/150/150/150 stats at all times if you set up the link moves correctly (X -> KS), and if you're actually slower, it gets KS up too. Plus, putting KS in the last slot means that it still can use KS at its normal priority any time it wants.
 
I'm not sure. On one hand, fakespam is discouraged.

On the other hand, Aegis actually will have 150/150/150/150 stats at all times if you set up the link moves correctly (X -> KS), and if you're actually slower, it gets KS up too. Plus, putting KS in the last slot means that it still can use KS at its normal priority any time it wants.
That's actually very interesting. 150/150/150/150 stats at the cost of one attack. Maybe suited for Choiced variants. Downside is no priority King's shield means if you use other unlinked attacking moves, next turn you can't make King's Shield protect faster attacks from your 50/50 defenses, making it only suited for Choiced variants. If you worry slower pokes can't touch King's Shield, remember that King's Shield doesn't block status, making status users gets more use.

Though the main thing of Aegislash that will make this meta healthier is unlinked King's Shield to stop Faketurn, Scarf Jirachi, Band Talonflame, Band Dragonite and all other Physical Priority users. Besides, I can try out a little stally team (probably not full stall though) with Aegislash, Gliscor, Clefable, making Stall a more viable playstyle. Overall, I think its perfectly healthy for the meta.

Unban it imo.
 
That's actually very interesting. 150/150/150/150 stats at the cost of one attack. Maybe suited for Choiced variants. Downside is no priority King's shield means if you use other unlinked attacking moves, next turn you can't make King's Shield protect faster attacks from your 50/50 defenses, making it only suited for Choiced variants. If you worry slower pokes can't touch King's Shield, remember that King's Shield doesn't block status, making status users gets more use.

Though the main thing of Aegislash that will make this meta healthier is unlinked King's Shield to stop Faketurn, Scarf Jirachi, Band Talonflame, Band Dragonite and all other Physical Priority users. Besides, I can try out a little stally team (probably not full stall though) with Aegislash, Gliscor, Clefable, making Stall a more viable playstyle. Overall, I think its perfectly healthy for the meta.
you do realize:

-Filler
-King's Shield

puts you in shield form before anyone can attack you.
 
I recognize we may have to implement restrictions on KS if Aegi is indeed unbanned, but we can deal with that later. Stall has almost no influence on the meta rn, bar Unaware, and Aegi would be a great addition (although probs an annoying one to fight against) to stall teams in the future. Of course his unbanning would mean yet another reason to slap Mega Gyar on every team ever (I swear nothing stop this thing once it gets going) with it's powerful Crunch, but unlinked KS would cripple even him.

We could always just leave it up to the OU suspect too
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
I am not sure about an Aegislash unban--I think it may be good but perhaps too good. With a set of Shadow Sneak/KS (linked)/Secret Sword/filler (Sub? Iron Head? Gyro Ball?) it may be too overpowered. SS/KS have +1 priority, allowing you to have 150 Atk for Shadow Sneak, then go back to 150/150 defenses with King's Shield. Then, you are almost always slower than the opponent allowing you to get off a Secret Sword (for Dark types) or a Gyro Ball or something after tanking the initial hit in Shield forme. You may say "well this puts you a disadvantage for next turn, you won't be able to tank the hit!" but you forgot that the SS/KS combo has priority putting you back in Shield Forme while doing decent chip damage against 99% of the metagame. This allows it to tank so many hits it's not even funny. Or, you can run KS outside the link to beat priority spammers such as Dragonite and Talonflame (resists Ice Shard and is immune to Fake Out on Weavile and is immune to all three of Fake Out, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave on Infernape, also immune to Fake Out and resistant to Bullet Punch from MegaCham, the main priority uses I can think of rn) although I think the first set may be superior in most other ways (you can always Sub to protect against priority--Aegi resists Flying and only gets it by the weak, non-STAB Aqua Jet from Dragonite, being immune to ESpeed). Yes you can burn it, but Heal Bell does exist. Overall right now I am undecided. Yes it can check offense, but I think it may do too good of a job at it, despite lack of recovery (with the first set it gets protection every other turn against most of the metagame WHILE doing decent chip damage, which when combined with Lefties is pretty good recovery when you have dual 150 defenses, and perhaps even a Sub up).
 
I am not sure about an Aegislash unban--I think it may be good but perhaps too good. With a set of Shadow Sneak/KS (linked)/Secret Sword/filler (Sub? Iron Head? Gyro Ball?) it may be too overpowered. SS/KS have +1 priority, allowing you to have 150 Atk for Shadow Sneak, then go back to 150/150 defenses with King's Shield. Then, you are almost always slower than the opponent allowing you to get off a Secret Sword (for Dark types) or a Gyro Ball or something after tanking the initial hit in Shield forme. You may say "well this puts you a disadvantage for next turn, you won't be able to tank the hit!" but you forgot that the SS/KS combo has priority putting you back in Shield Forme while doing decent chip damage against 99% of the metagame. This allows it to tank so many hits it's not even funny. Or, you can run KS outside the link to beat priority spammers such as Dragonite and Talonflame (resists Ice Shard and is immune to Fake Out on Weavile and is immune to all three of Fake Out, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave on Infernape, also immune to Fake Out and resistant to Bullet Punch from MegaCham, the main priority uses I can think of rn) although I think the first set may be superior in most other ways (you can always Sub to protect against priority--Aegi resists Flying and only gets it by the weak, non-STAB Aqua Jet from Dragonite, being immune to ESpeed). Yes you can burn it, but Heal Bell does exist. Overall right now I am undecided. Yes it can check offense, but I think it may do too good of a job at it, despite lack of recovery (with the first set it gets protection every other turn against most of the metagame WHILE doing decent chip damage, which when combined with Lefties is pretty good recovery when you have dual 150 defenses, and perhaps even a Sub up).
Yes. The point of unbanning Aegislash is about checking offense. King's Shield and tankiness is why Stall teams might become more viable with Aegislash around. Its job of checking offense is more like "anti meta" than being "broken." Its perfectly healthy for the meta I think because the meta is very offensive right now and something needs to limit it. I think Aegislash is the right poke to do the job.
 
How isn't protect + boosting move banned? It might be me just missing something, but it seems kind of broken getting to +2, 1+ & 1+ ect for free. King shield + Swords dance in the case of king shield, then separately linked Shadow sneak and Secret sword. I'm not making the argument that it's broken, and I do believe it should be unbanned. But other pokemon can also run the protect + Boosting move combination. Charizard-X can run SD + Tail wind, which might be broken. Very little lives that.
I don't know, I haven't played this once but on paper stuff like that seems broken
 
How isn't protect + boosting move banned? It might be me just missing something, but it seems kind of broken getting to +2, 1+ & 1+ ect for free. King shield + Swords dance in the case of king shield, then separately linked Shadow sneak and Secret sword. I'm not making the argument that it's broken, and I do believe it should be unbanned. But other pokemon can also run the protect + Boosting move combination. Charizard-X can run SD + Tail wind, which might be broken. Very little lives that.
I don't know, I haven't played this once but on paper stuff like that seems broken
Because when Protect linked with non-priority moves, it loses priority.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linkedubers-2017820

For people who think this is an offensive meta, here is an interesting replay that proves Linked isn't all about Offense. Why Linked Ubers? Because we want to test Aegislash in the OU environment. I think Aegislash makes the meta better imo. Its not really broken.
 
Because when Protect linked with non-priority moves, it loses priority.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linkedubers-2017820

For people who think this is an offensive meta, here is an interesting replay that proves Linked isn't all about Offense. Why Linked Ubers? Because we want to test Aegislash in the OU environment. I think Aegislash makes the meta better imo. Its not really broken.
Something fast like Mega Aerodactyl still gets +1 +1 Hone claws free
 

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