Contests, Pokeahtlon, Musicals, Pokestar Studios, and Pokejobs all show that raw stats aren't needed to find success in the Pokeworld, but the games will always be about standard battling since that and catching them all are why people buy them. The dissonance wasn't this severe until battling and catching was the only option players had to focus on.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
I think you should look up the definition of “rend”, you’ll understand why it was named like that and why it deals double the damage. Personally, I felt it was fitting
Even then, contests, Pokeathlon, and musicals are still competitive, they're just a different kind of competition.
I realized that this might not actually be the case. Domestic Pokemon are shown so infrequently in Pokemon that it isn't a stretch to think that the reason you never find a Pokemon who's cool with just being a pet is because Pokemon like that are obscenely rare. Nonetheless, it's still disturbing to think that almost every single Pokemon intrinsically values strength and competition above all else. Pokemon are basically slightly more cooperative versions of the Shroobs and Daleks, two violent alien races who frequently repeat the words "destroy" and "exterminate", respectively. It's sad to think that an entire species (or group of species, depending on what exactly Pokemon are) is so homogeneously obsessed with combat.
EDIT: Emphasis should be put on "species". It isn't a group of sentient being who have formed their own combat-obsessed culture, like the Spartans of ancient Greece or whatever. This obsession is baked into the instincts and DNA of the entire species.
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I genuinely think you are not meant to look that deeply into how every house does not have a ton of pet pokemon or that every single pokemo nis a power hungry mad and its Abusive to not fight with them and so on. And it's not liek they're THAT rare, really, even if htey aren't out & about in houses NPCs often talk about spoiling their pokemon and most trainers only have like...3, tops.
Gen 5 had a ton of NPCs worry about their Pokemon, the ones they consider pets & family, and how they might be treating them unfairly by keeping them (because tehy're being tricked by honeyed words) and others know they're happy because they've lived with them for so long.
Pokemon canonically like fighting but I think....I think going into how Horrible and Disturbing it is is kind of...not that far off from the kind of bad faith reading of Pokemon just being cock fighting but for kids.
Unless they seriously start to up the amount of, well, everything on screen and have dozens of NPCs per screen talk about hwo great their pet pokemon is & have every single notable NPC talk about how dont worry their Pokemon are safe & sound and enjoying themselves atthe farm upstate home at some point you just have to suspend disbelief that the world is not a cess pit of shitty folks pulverizing each other's animals for sport and the Grim Truth the series inadvertantly puts forth (which, by the way, this is the first time i've seen any one seriously argue this point and I think at that point we are in too deep folks) is some pokemon must be abandoned to attain true strength.
Gen 5 had a ton of NPCs worry about their Pokemon, the ones they consider pets & family, and how they might be treating them unfairly by keeping them (because tehy're being tricked by honeyed words) and others know they're happy because they've lived with them for so long.
Pokemon canonically like fighting but I think....I think going into how Horrible and Disturbing it is is kind of...not that far off from the kind of bad faith reading of Pokemon just being cock fighting but for kids.
Unless they seriously start to up the amount of, well, everything on screen and have dozens of NPCs per screen talk about hwo great their pet pokemon is & have every single notable NPC talk about how dont worry their Pokemon are safe & sound and enjoying themselves at
I'm not saying that there should be a ton of the equivalent of crazy cat people in Pokemon. It's just now that I'm thinking about it, I'm suddenly very disturbed that so many Pokemon are inherently competitive that "Pokemon trainer" is an extremely common profession. The number of domestic Pokemon isn't too unreasonable on its own, but when you compare it to the number of Pokemon you see battling with NPC trainers...
Ultimately I think that does just come down to gameplay requiring more pokemon trainers than townies & pokemon trainers as a concept needing to be A Thing About the World for the game's conceit to work.
Something the anime can do a better job of just due the medium requirng a bunch of fleshed out realistic cities with a bunch of people living in them and working with pokemon or just walking with them casually, I suppose.
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That aside this conversation is kind of grimly funny when put against the very initial drafts of the series way back as Capumon with its aesthetic of whips, cages, mad science and more monstrous monsters. A lot more fantastical kind of grit anime world, that one.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Not quite domestic, but the games often make a point of Pokemon also doing various real-world jobs, whether it be members of the Machop line doing work such as mining or helping people move in their possessions into new households, Chansey, Audino and Female Indeedee helping out at Pokemon centers around the world, the various applications of Rotom or all the different professions Poke Jobs allows Pokemon of all shapes and sizes to partake in.
But yeah, I'm inclined to agree with R_N, this convo is reaching the extremely silly "DAE POKEMON BATTLES AMINAL ABUSE?!" territory shitty parody cartoons and their ilk often delve into.
On the subject of worldbuilding issues though: Has it ever been established who exactly governs the Pokemon world/individual regions? This may seem like material for Mysteries and Conspiracies, but nah Imma put it here because it seems like something so basic that is just never discussed in-game. We've seen potential agencies a few times such as Alola's travel bureaus for each island, but never a government behind them whether it be a local or region-level thing. It could be argued that maybe Gym Leaders are the effective mayors of a given town or city with the League being the federal government, but that leads to some extremely questionable implications especially in regards to young challengers/leaders that ultimately make it an unlikely option.
But yeah, I'm inclined to agree with R_N, this convo is reaching the extremely silly "DAE POKEMON BATTLES AMINAL ABUSE?!" territory shitty parody cartoons and their ilk often delve into.
On the subject of worldbuilding issues though: Has it ever been established who exactly governs the Pokemon world/individual regions? This may seem like material for Mysteries and Conspiracies, but nah Imma put it here because it seems like something so basic that is just never discussed in-game. We've seen potential agencies a few times such as Alola's travel bureaus for each island, but never a government behind them whether it be a local or region-level thing. It could be argued that maybe Gym Leaders are the effective mayors of a given town or city with the League being the federal government, but that leads to some extremely questionable implications especially in regards to young challengers/leaders that ultimately make it an unlikely option.
Depending on the game they...kinda...get close?
As you say, some gym leaders are kind of like Mayors. We'll ignore Kanto for this because they stay fairly rigid as part of nostalgia and aren't very defined.
But broadly speaking they have some notable clout within the world. Gen 5's Elesa is the one who gives permission to lower the drawbridge, Clay's running like 4 businesses and keeps peace in the town. Morty has some connection to the Ecruteak religious practices? Jasmine maintaines the lighthouse. Alola's Kahunas have a lot of clout and seem to give approval on behalf of the Tapu for various things but at the same time we have businesses do their own thing regardless. Hala seems to run all of MeleMele and treated as a big deal, Olivia I think is involved with the Diglett's Tunnel, things like that. Kukui is I think said to speak with al lthe Kahunas to get the pokemon league built but doesnt mention any sort of other red tape to go through. On the other hand Nanu is also a cop, specifically part of interpol, which I think in itself kind of points to surely there being some greater government....
Rose may as well rule Galar but despite all the many many many businesses he runs but he isn't involved in any sort of government.
Meanwhile there's a bunch of gym leaders that are just, you know. Dudes or gals who run a gym. A town icon, if you will.
Unova in general is probably the closest to fleshing this out because apparently the champion has enough pull in the world to declare everyone in the region to discard their pokemon. Which...sure.
Is a little surprising they never just have straight up oh here's a prime minister. Here's a president. Etc. But I guess they don't want to muck up the games plots with literal politics (cant blame them, boring as it is maddening as it is obnoxious).I think the simplest answer is similar to the domestication conversation: we just kind of have to assume there's you know *waves hands vaguely* some stuff that goes on off screen. lot of boring bureaucrats in offices passing laws and junk that rose is paying off.
Kalos, Alola, and Galar have also been said to have previously had a monarchy, and at least Kalos even shows us where the monarchy used to live. While it would be unnecessary to show a president or prime minister character, it is strange that we don't seem to ever even see an active governmental building where these hypothetical region leaders do their thing. Though it's possible that there isn't a unified regional government. The region could instead be an alliance of city states or something.
Tricky question as honestly the day-to-day government that actually run a region is never really seen as they kind of oddly don't matter as far as the games are concerned. One important Gym Leader here to mention is Drayden who is specifically said to be the mayor of Opelucid City. This is notable because this has to be specifically said, as if it's something only pertaining to Drayden and no other Gym Leader.
It would seem to be the case, and the Pokemon Special Manga somewhat agrees, that it's the Pokemon League (or whoever runs the Pokemon League, which in the Special Manga is the "Pokemon Association") is the organization that's in charge or Pokemon-related legislature. But, as seen with Chairman Rose, who is the president of a major company and seemingly not with any political or government group, even if there's a government group backing the Pokemon League they may be able to govern anything related to the Pokemon League (Gym Leaders, Pokemon Centers, PokeMarts, the League Tournament) they may not have legal power and to do anything outside their juristition have to get permission from the region's government (and depending what it is they want to do may require going to a different level of government). Going back to Drayden, being the mayor of Opelucid he's probably able to assist the Unova Pokemon League if they want to do something within Opelucid City or the surrounding area, but that's a rare case and it also creates a rough position for Drayden as he needs to decide whether what the Pokemon League wants to do would be beneficial for Opelucid City or at least willing to compensate if there is none (and what and how much that compensation is).
Alola is another interesting case as the Kahuna are specifically said to be in charge of their island. And it's kind of hard to argue against that when the reason this is is because a Legendary Pokemon said so all whom have no problem unleashing their wrath upon those who displease them (of course the Island Guardians would very much be invested in picking the best person for the job). And as we've seen the Kahuna's aren't alone as there's plenty of people and groups helping keep the day-to-day things running.
However, outside that, we haven't really seen any government figures*. Most Gym Leaders are at most community leaders who have some clout but that's it and really only within the town/city they are the Gym Leader. Elite Four seem to be more direct agents of the Pokemon League, while they may not have any sort of influence in any town/city if a matter is considered to be under the oversight of the Pokemon League or a Gym Leader requests assistance from the Pokemon League than an Elite Four member can step in and take charge of the situation until it's cleared up. As for the Champion, oddly the Champion just seems to be a title hold by the trainer who beat the League Tournament the Pokemon League runs. The Champion has no responsibility to the Pokemon League aside defending their title, however the Pokemon League would definitely hire the Champion as another agent of theirs if the Champion chooses to be (such as with Lance and possibly Leon). The Pokemon League also probably sees the Champion as a "last resort", a trainer they can approach and request help from (if they don't work for them) if they need more "muscle". That is probably why we see Steven, Wallace, Cynthia, & Alder getting more involved with Pokemon League issues though Iris & Diantha seemingly don't have that much involvement.
* Okay, yes, we have seen Interpol via Looker, Nanu & Anabel but that's another level which involves multiple governments.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Another gym leader that could be considered a mayor of sorts is Wattson. He's pretty much singlehandedly responsible for building Mauville City into what it is today and has ordained and constructed what could be considered "public works" with mixed success from New Mauville to the Lumiose Tower statue in ORAS. In that sense he's kinda like a much smaller-scale version of Chairman Rose.
Has the anime provided greater specifics on potential government entities running the regions?
Has the anime provided greater specifics on potential government entities running the regions?
It's conservation of detail because there couldn't be a president, prime minister or other head of state character that couldn't be battled, it's a Pokémon game after all where the majority of important interactions are by battling, which would raise the question of why they are playing with this kid instead of running the country. Cities and towns in the games are tiny especially in the earlier gens and only show the buildings that really matter so no city councils or town halls etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but has a hospital for humans ever been decipted? Are we to think that there is no medical facility that take care of humans in the Pokémon world?
Take Drayden for a moment, there is no reason to assume that in all Unova only Opelucid City has a mayor, the others cities have them too, but they aren't trainers so they don't appear in the games. There are hints that some kind of central government exists with things like Hoenn Space Center and Weather Institute since these are the kind of institutions that are funded by countries irl. The Pokémon League fits more like a Olympic Committee than anything else.
Take Drayden for a moment, there is no reason to assume that in all Unova only Opelucid City has a mayor, the others cities have them too, but they aren't trainers so they don't appear in the games. There are hints that some kind of central government exists with things like Hoenn Space Center and Weather Institute since these are the kind of institutions that are funded by countries irl. The Pokémon League fits more like a Olympic Committee than anything else.
This is actually something I've thought about for a while and I'd really like there to be a major character (let's suppose the Champion) in a future game to be a politician. As discussed, we've had mayors or leaders before, but a couple have been evil (Evice from Colosseum springs to mind) and Drayden's duties as mayor aren't really ever discussed in depth. It'd be interesting to have someone whose first priority was governing well, but who was also a Trainer.
You could incorporate it into the story with them having some sort of political dispute: maybe a developer wants to build a giant stadium where other people want there to be homes instead, and the player ends up involved. There's a lot of scope and it could be very interesting if handled right. I think by necessity this sort of Champion wouldn't be a flashy braggart like Leon or Wallace, but someone a bit more understated and quiet like Steven or Diantha. They'd be a manager rather than a front-line fighter, but not cowardly or weak - just someone who knows how to delegate well. Whenever they encounter the player they'd stress the importance of the collective good and the difficulty of doing what's best when others might not agree.
I kind of imagine a politician who was the league champion to be a Normal-type specialist, but equally they could just have no specialty (reflecting how a character of this sort would have to meet numerous different types of people and Pokemon).
It's also worth mentioning that, in Black and White, N's plan was to become Champion in order to make people release their Pokémon. At some level the Champions do hold some authority in their Pokémon regions, but it's not clear which point exactly.
Leon being the one tasked to solve problems in Sword and Shield (and only allowing you to deal with some hooligans) might be another case of this.
Leon being the one tasked to solve problems in Sword and Shield (and only allowing you to deal with some hooligans) might be another case of this.
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I've also thought about a possible "politically charged" plot in Pokemon, our at least one that alludes to it. However mine went ALL the way where I actually have a conservative vs liberal plot (which I flavored as "tradition vs progression"... and yes, there's two villain teams each representing the extreme sides of both beliefs). The region is one region though has a more defined "northern" and "southern" side with concerns such extreme difference would lead to the region leaders deciding to split the region into two. Finally the Champion is a Representative from the middle area of the region (which neither looks extremely traditional nor progressive) who is trying to keep both sides from splitting (and just so we finally have this trope done and give the player some involvement in the plot, the Champion is one of the player's parent (I imagine it being the mother just to also break the mother's role of being contained to the player's home)). Obviously there's a lot more to my idea (and yes, the Legendary mascots are an elephant and donkey), just wanted to share my thoughts how they could do a political plot (and if you're wondering the core message would be that each side don't need to necessarily agree with one another but still work together & equally compromise for what's best for the people and form a stronger nation... stop laughing, it's a kids game afterall...).
In N's case, it's not that becoming Champion would give him authoritarian power but rather it's just a platform to gains everyone's attention: the most powerful trainer in the region is also a "chosen one" of a Legendary Pokemon. He is king of an entire organization of loyal and zealot knights, wise men, and teleporting ninjas. They just rose their giant, mobile tunneling castle around the Pokemon League where the strongest trainers in the region are gathered. Finally they have scientist and technological experts who have hacked into the PC system and ready to forcefully remove your stored Pokemon away from you if you resist. So, would you pretty please release your Pokemon and help create a world where Pokemon and people live apart from one another?
For Leon, well it's more that Leon is Rose's right hand man and Rose, though he doesn't seemingly politically run Galar, does have tight hold on keeping Galar running economically and genuinely cares and worries about Galar's future (he just cared a bit too much). Still, that does mean whatever problem happened it likely affected Rose's business somehow (or Rose's business cause it...) so Leon, being a famous and much loved figure, would be put in charge resolving the issues.
I'd like to just go on record as saying this is a really, really bad idea. Not only has tradition/progression already been done in Black and White, but if Pokemon actually had blatantly liberal and conservative politicians, comments sections would be a shit show for a long time.
"____ paints my beliefs in a bad light!"
"____ is sugar coating the atrocities committed by the party I'm against!"
"There's no way ____ should have compromised on that!"
"This game is just pushing the ____ agenda!"
(in response to any of the above)
"Why would I expect anything more from a fucking ____ like you?"
The world is not yet ready for a game like this.
I'm not against having a major politician character, but I think it should be done like how greentyphlosion imagined. Strip away the ideologies, and just focus on the core of a politician's job: balancing the needs of everyday citizens, countless businesses and industries large and small, and the wallets of themselves and their main supporters.
In that case... why bother with a political based theme at all then? If you're going to completely strip away anything that might offend someone you might as well not do it at all. And maybe for Pokemon that's the best.
Honestly, I think we're just interested in knowing how things are working in the background, not the people in charge of it. If that's the case, instead of having a singular character (one who may have a conservative/liberal viewpoint someone would object to), it would be just as easy if nor easier to have random NPCs just tell the player (and provide a trainer battle). A worker, someone who runs a business, a member of a lobbyist group, a banker, a judge/lawmaker, police officer, etc. are all possible NPCs that could just give little insights here and there about how things are being run.
As someone from the midlands of England who now lives in London, hoo-boy does this resonate.
But:
Agreed.
The politics of the Pokemon world do not run on a liberal/conservative axis. We know this from previous games: its universe is not governed by politics, nor are the conflicts we witness political in nature.
This quote from Junichi Masuda sums up to me the priorities of the series' designers and writers:
"We actually don't think of the world of Pokémon as Earth. If we were to do that, we would kind of be limited by what we could do. By thinking about how physical objects work on Earth and how various elements work on Earth, we would kind of be limited to that if we thought of it as Earth. We think of it as a place that is really similar to Earth but is a different planet of its own with people in it who may be similar to people on Earth, but they have different values so they care about different things. It's the type of place, the Pokémon world, where problems we face on Earth just wouldn't happen. There wouldn't be global warming, water shortages, or anything like that. It's a world where the people in it really want to work together with each other. Their value system is such where they would prefer to work together and eliminate these problems rather than feud."[4]
The story example I cited (a Pokemon battling stadium potentially being built where new homes could be built instead) is a simple one with a variety of different undertones and parallels the conflicts we've already seen in previous games, fitting into the above quote perfectly. It's a human crisis with personal implications that can be extrapolated to say something broader about society but doesn't have to if you don't want it to.
I've always thought the "nature vs technology" thing would be a cool duality to explore in a future game as a stand-in for progressivism vs traditionalism (though ironically in the real world those would likely be the other way around). BW, XY, and SwSh all flirt with this idea but in a very loose and noncommittal sort of way. Pollution has been an ongoing theme in the games from the start (reference the rise and fall of Grimer and Muk) and I kind of feel like it'll always be something that's there in the background but won't ever dominate.
There are other ways the politician character I mentioned could be implemented, and it needn't even be in a plot that was politically-themed at all (the character could easily have been worked into the Hoenn games, imo).
But Pokemon is the last franchise that needs to go woke, and I'd be seriously turned off if it did.
You answered that question yourself just a few lines later.
Even without considering ideologies (or perhaps especially without considering ideologies) politics is a fascinating field, and I don't think enough people appreciate just how hard a politician's job is. Almost nothing is as simple as "just do the thing that makes people happy". The people a politician is tasked with governing have countless contradictory wants and needs, so while building that road will allow for safer and faster travel, allowing people to work jobs farther away from home or more easily visit family from out of town, it'll upset the people who liked the town quiet and isolated, and since building roads costs money, that road is getting paid for through tax payers, and they may not want that money to be spent on a road instead of something they think is more important. Not to mention that politicians need money for themselves to continue being in a governing position, so decisions are further complicated by the risk of pissing off key financial supporters. Finally, even the most philanthropic politician has gone through some shady dealings at some point to get to where they are, and if those ever become public knowledge, there's a very real possibility that the Sword of Damocles will fall as the good will of the citizens is quickly replaced with righteous fury.
Right, so let's move onto something we all can agree on: Annoying Max Raids.
Started doing Max Raids again cause want to catch a batch of the Event Pikachu, Eevee, & soon Meowth.
For G-Pikachu no problem, mostly. Though interesting thing I learned was that G-Pikachu's Max Lightning can still paralyze a Ground-type as long as the Ground-type wasn't the target of the move (though thinking about it might have learned that from G-Toxtricity's Max Stun Shock), that was kind of annoying but if it got too annoying you could at least healed the Paralysis.
Not so with G-Eevee. G-Eevee's Max Cuddle causes infatuation and there's no way of getting rid of that. Had one Raid where no significant progress happened for a few turns because most kept being immobilized by love. Thinking about it maybe should have trained up a Falinks as they're genderless.
G-Meowth is up next and it can cause Confusion. Now I got an Own Tempo Mudsdale with Superpower all ready to go (and a Close Combat TR is that doesn't work out), though who knows if the confusion infliction will bypass Abilities like the Paralysis bypassing Type.
Also two little annoyance from Raids in general:
1. That moment when for some reason it looks like you hit the next threshold for the second set of barriers but for some reason it lets the next Pokemon do its attack which does nothing and then sets up the barriers. "Well that's because you didn't reach the threshold, you were just 1 or 2 HP off". Yeah, that's probably it, but it's happened often then it feels like it should if that's the case. And when the next Pokemon does its attack I don't even see a bit red of the Raid's Pokemon HP which would indicate that's the case.
2. What's the point of a breaking barrier decreasing the target's Defense and Special Defense when they could just do their stat reset power?