(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

ScraftyIsTheBest

Unlimited Blade Works
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So I've been playing through Diamond again recently (in a big Sinnoh mood right now, that region is special to me), and there's a bit of a peeve that I have with DP's level curve, especially around the mid-game point.

The game based on the Trainer ID case and many official sources suggest that after Gardenia, you should do Maylene third and Crasher Wake fourth before battling Fantina. Even the anime follows this progression. The way they supposedly want you to travel based on that is to go to Solaceon after Hearthome, then go up Route 210, avoid the foggy half, walk straight down to Route 215 into Veilstone, then battle Maylene, then down Route 214 and 213 and into Pastoria, battle Wake, then walk down 212 and back into Hearthome. Sounds like a pretty natural progression....right?

Except...the level curve of the routes completely contradicts this. Route 212's Trainers have lower leveled Pokemon than the Pokemon in Routes 213-215 and even the foggy half of 210 and 211. It's actually closer to the point you will be in by the time you reach Solaceon. Furthermore, the 212 Hearthome gate is locked only until you've visited Solaceon, which means you can go there right away once you've passed Route 209 and visited there. Furthermore, the Gym Trainers in Wake's Gym are actually lower leveled than those in Maylene's Gym.

Which basically means...the level curve and the requirement to unlock Route 212 suggests that the game contradictorily wants you to actually battle Wake first, then go do Maylene after you've defeated Wake. The level curve suggests that they want you to visit Solaceon, do part of Route 210, then go back to Hearthome, travel down Route 212, visit Pastoria and battle Wake, then go up Routes 213 and 214 and then visit Veilstone, and battle Maylene next. Then head up Routes 215 and the northern half of 210 with the foggy stuff and into Celestic Town and the eastern half of Route 211, then go back to Hearthome.

And while that's...not necessarily a bad order, it requires quite a bit of backtracking. But that's not what annoys me here. What does annoy me about this is how incredibly contradictory it is. The so-called "official" order of the Gyms from there is Maylene->Crasher Wake->Fantina, but the level curve wants you to do it Crasher Wake->Maylene->Fantina. It's like two different people decided the order of progression they wanted you to challenge Maylene and Wake but one person named it based on a linear route progression and another decided the level curve very differently and wanted players to do it a different way.

It's a good thing Platinum rectified it by creating a smoother level curve towards its intended order (Fantina->Maylene->Wake) and also locking you from doing Wake beforehand, and the game's level curve aligning with that as well as the route access restrictions making it clear what order they want you to do it in.

DP's level curve also suggests that they want you to use the Vs. Seeker and battle several Trainers whose levels go up with each rematch in each of the old routes, considering how incredibly steep it is. While it does incentivize revisiting places you've already been to, and I don't really mind doing it, many players probably cannot be bothered to go through all the effort to find all the Trainers who have upgraded rematch levels and battle them for the exp, especially having to revisit several routes multiple times. And they want you to do this multiple times throughout the main story. First right after you obtain it, they want you to go back, then again after Fantina, then again after say, Byron and Candice, and whatnot. It's quite difficult to regularly keep track of all these Trainers, and it's worse when whether they respond to the Vs. Seeker or not is entirely random and if they don't respond, you have to walk another 100 steps to recharge then try again. It also seemingly wants you to do the Water Routes (219-211) immediately after getting Surf.

I love the Sinnoh games still, but this is a bit of a peeve that I have with it in terms of the level curve. Now granted, it's no where near as bad as Johto's level curve, but the main thing is that it makes it so you can battle Maylene and Wake in any order, but the official order and the level curve order contradict each other so heavily that I just really find it baffling, and wonder who designed the "official order" and the level curve.
 
So I've been playing through Diamond again recently (in a big Sinnoh mood right now, that region is special to me), and there's a bit of a peeve that I have with DP's level curve, especially around the mid-game point.

The game based on the Trainer ID case and many official sources suggest that after Gardenia, you should do Maylene third and Crasher Wake fourth before battling Fantina. Even the anime follows this progression. The way they supposedly want you to travel based on that is to go to Solaceon after Hearthome, then go up Route 210, avoid the foggy half, walk straight down to Route 215 into Veilstone, then battle Maylene, then down Route 214 and 213 and into Pastoria, battle Wake, then walk down 212 and back into Hearthome. Sounds like a pretty natural progression....right?

Except...the level curve of the routes completely contradicts this. Route 212's Trainers have lower leveled Pokemon than the Pokemon in Routes 213-215 and even the foggy half of 210 and 211. It's actually closer to the point you will be in by the time you reach Solaceon. Furthermore, the 212 Hearthome gate is locked only until you've visited Solaceon, which means you can go there right away once you've passed Route 209 and visited there. Furthermore, the Gym Trainers in Wake's Gym are actually lower leveled than those in Maylene's Gym.

Which basically means...the level curve and the requirement to unlock Route 212 suggests that the game contradictorily wants you to actually battle Wake first, then go do Maylene after you've defeated Wake. The level curve suggests that they want you to visit Solaceon, do part of Route 210, then go back to Hearthome, travel down Route 212, visit Pastoria and battle Wake, then go up Routes 213 and 214 and then visit Veilstone, and battle Maylene next. Then head up Routes 215 and the northern half of 210 with the foggy stuff and into Celestic Town and the eastern half of Route 211, then go back to Hearthome.

And while that's...not necessarily a bad order, it requires quite a bit of backtracking. But that's not what annoys me here. What does annoy me about this is how incredibly contradictory it is. The so-called "official" order of the Gyms from there is Maylene->Crasher Wake->Fantina, but the level curve wants you to do it Crasher Wake->Maylene->Fantina. It's like two different people decided the order of progression they wanted you to challenge Maylene and Wake but one person named it based on a linear route progression and another decided the level curve very differently and wanted players to do it a different way.

It's a good thing Platinum rectified it by creating a smoother level curve towards its intended order (Fantina->Maylene->Wake) and also locking you from doing Wake beforehand, and the game's level curve aligning with that as well as the route access restrictions making it clear what order they want you to do it in.

DP's level curve also suggests that they want you to use the Vs. Seeker and battle several Trainers whose levels go up with each rematch in each of the old routes, considering how incredibly steep it is. While it does incentivize revisiting places you've already been to, and I don't really mind doing it, many players probably cannot be bothered to go through all the effort to find all the Trainers who have upgraded rematch levels and battle them for the exp, especially having to revisit several routes multiple times. And they want you to do this multiple times throughout the main story. First right after you obtain it, they want you to go back, then again after Fantina, then again after say, Byron and Candice, and whatnot. It's quite difficult to regularly keep track of all these Trainers, and it's worse when whether they respond to the Vs. Seeker or not is entirely random and if they don't respond, you have to walk another 100 steps to recharge then try again. It also seemingly wants you to do the Water Routes (219-211) immediately after getting Surf.

I love the Sinnoh games still, but this is a bit of a peeve that I have with it in terms of the level curve. Now granted, it's no where near as bad as Johto's level curve, but the main thing is that it makes it so you can battle Maylene and Wake in any order, but the official order and the level curve order contradict each other so heavily that I just really find it baffling, and wonder who designed the "official order" and the level curve.
That was fixed in Platinum.

Route 212 is first available in DP as soon as you reach Solaceon, but in Platinum, the Hearthome gate is locked until you reach Pastoria. Levels were adjusted accordingly.

GOAT main series game never lost. :psywoke:
 
It also seemingly wants you to do the Water Routes (219-211) immediately after getting Surf.
Great post and I agree with all the points you made. Just wanted to add that the above point has always been the case in every main series game; there has never, AFAIK, been an area with horribly overleveled NPCs placed there seemingly to discourage the player from going there too early in any region. Once the player is able to use a HM the games always seem to take it as a given that players will backtrack to every location on the map that was previously inaccessible. It's why you have NPCs in early-game caves like the Oreburgh Gate or Johto's Union Cave who are twenty levels stronger than the other NPCs you previously fought in the same location, and why even though the story directs you to the Pal Park after getting the National Dex, the surrounding area is full of opponents with Pokemon in their 30s.
 
Metal Claw is a FRLG exclusive level up move for Charmander. I don't understand why they removed it only to keep it as a move to pass down through parents.
It was given it in FRLG specifically to have a decent option against Brock (not that I think it needed it, but it was neat).

There hasn't been a game since where Charmander has been a starter (LGPE doesn't count before anyone corrects me), so it hasn't "needed" the move the same way the developers thought it did then.
 
It was given it in FRLG specifically to have a decent option against Brock (not that I think it needed it, but it was neat).

There hasn't been a game since where Charmander has been a starter (LGPE doesn't count before anyone corrects me), so it hasn't "needed" the move the same way the developers thought it did then.
Which is also the first generation Brock has actual Rock STAB to work with, and also Sturdy is a thing (EDIT: Not yet it's not, h/t Ironmage ), so while it works in a pinch, you're still better off nabbing a Mankey or Nidoran to deal with it. Also, Ember burns actually work now since Brock no longer has nigh-infinite Full Heals.
 
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Which is also the first generation Brock has actual Rock STAB to work with, and also Sturdy is a thing (EDIT: Not yet it's not, h/t Ironmage ), so while it works in a pinch, you're still better off nabbing a Mankey or Nidoran to deal with it. Also, Ember burns actually work now since Brock no longer has nigh-infinite Full Heals.
Which is why, as I said, I think the change was largely pointless. As Kurona said, Ember is still generally the better option.

I guess it's nice to give one of the starters a Steel-type move, though, since those are incredibly rare in Kanto for obvious reasons.
 
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Though actually, maybe Game Freak were onto something with giving Charmander Metal Claw which they should've kept going with.

If I were to say what type is most closely related to Steel-Type and thus should get the most Steel-Type coverage, what would you say? It's Fire-Type, right? But a lot of Fire-Type Pokémon don't learn any Steel-Type moves, even though magma is kind of a mix between Fire- and Steel-Type attributes. And when you look at what type does receive a lot of Steel-Type coverage -- Ice-Type because I guess shiny -- it becomes even more confusing because Fire-Type is also luminescent. <--- I decided to double check this, and believe it or not Dragon-Type is actually the type with the most Flash Cannon coverage. Kyurem is a big reason for this, though, and discounting it and its forms, Dragon- and Ice-Type tie.

Basically, I'd argue that most Fire-Type Pokémon should almost learn Flash Cannon by default, and it's a pretty small minority that actually do (Camerupt, Volcanion, and Turtonator if you were wondering, Heatran excluded since it's not coverage for it). If Pokémon like Vanilluxe learn Flash Cannon, Pokémon like Magmortar definitely should be able to too.

The current conversations in OI have basically just made me realise that Game Freak has no idea what Steel-Type moves should be or who should be able to learn them. Perhaps Copperajah's cool Steel-Type Stealth Rock will be introduced next gen as a regular move and distributed widely (preferably with a caveat that you can only have one of Stealth Rock and the Steel-Type variant on your opponent's field at a time) to actually give Steel-Type a meaningful status move. Because right now, the best tanky Steel-Type Pokémon only use Gyro Ball for a Steel-Type move, and even then not always, which is weird for the "tanky" type.

I was thinking mainly of special Steel-Type moves because it's the more underutilised side of the type, but FTR the type with the most Iron Head coverage is actually Ground-Type, not Rock-Type like some may assume. Ground- and Steel-Type do also have a lot in common, so seeing unlikely contenders like Hippowdon, Mamoswine, and Garchomp get Iron Head despite not having a hugely apparent connection to the move is pretty cool.

Also TIL Aromatisse learns Flash Cannon for... some reason. Go figure.
 
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Rock.

Rock, Ground, and Steel are all basically "Earth" type, and many Pokemon with one of those types learn moves of all three types.
As I said, that post mainly concerns the special side of Steel-Type moves. Certainly on the physical side, a plethora of Rock- and Ground-Type Pokémon learn specifically Iron Head. But Mirror Shot or Flash Cannon don't make sense for most Rock- and Ground-Type Pokémon, since they're not reflective or really possess the properties that those moves ask for, so Fire-Type is the closest relative "elementally".
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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But Mirror Shot or Flash Cannon don't make sense for most Rock- and Ground-Type Pokémon, since they're not reflective or really possess the properties that those moves ask for
Mirror Shot: "The user lets loose a flash of energy at the target from its polished body."
Flash Cannon: "The user gathers all its light energy and releases it all at once."

Crystals are rocks and can be polished to be shiny?


Also Flash Cannon's description doesn't make it sound like a Steel-type move at all, not to mention a lot of other Types can learn it (though not Fire, and if I were to guess why it's probably cause they don't want them having access to a move that handles one of their weaknesses: Rock. It's a reason not a lot of Fire-types learn Energy Ball easily get Electric attacks).
 
I can't really say I get the premise myself -- I don't understand how fire is supposed to be related to steel. In terms of using it to smelt steel and change its shape and Do Blacksmith Things etc, sure; but in terms of actual properties? I'm not seeing it.
 

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