Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
it frustrates me so bad that regieleki and regidrago don't get superpower. I get their deal is not having much coverage but cmon that's literally the former signature move of the regi family
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
They don't?
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Regidrago has even less of an excuse, as it still learns Hammer Arm by level up with the rest of the titans (sans Eleki, it learns Thunderbolt)
I was going to say "do you imagine Regieleki using Superpower?".
Then I saw that Appletun gets the move.
i think a lot of the gen 8 signature move/ability stuff is just weird and badly designed. a lot of the concepts feel unfinished or not sufficiently expanded on.
stunfisk galar is probably one of the most obvious examples. snap trap being its signature move really just makes no sense (what use would it possibly have for a low-powered grass type attack?) and mimicry is pretty wacky cause stacking types doesn't really work when you're a really slow and defensive mon.
another good example is polteageist. alright we got a cool ghost type shell smash sweeper, its coverage is a little limited so it doesn't get out of control, and for its signature move... it makes all the pokemon on the field eat their berries. what is this? what was their plan when they put this in the game?
a lot of these ideas seem to be designed around doubles, which already means that for everyone except doubles players these abilities will be completely irrelevant, so you need to put a good amount of thought into the design. anyway, they made power spot, an ability that gives the ally pokemon additional power on its moves...and they put it on a slow and specially frail dude who has wide guard as his only doubles-relevant move (no trick room, no ally switch, none of that). the vast majority of the time having 2 good pokemon is better than having 1 slightly better than normal pokemon and 1 stonjourner. did they think this through at all?
what was the idea with sandaconda and sand spit? did they think players would use it over sand stream for some reason?
cramorant truly mystifies me. so basically you have a pokemon on par with drizzle-less pelipper and it has this incredibly convoluted ability where you reach a new form by using surf or dive successfully, and the form you reach depends on your current hp level, and it goes away when you switch out or dynamax, and if your opponent hits you while youre in the form then they take 25% hp and either get -def or parad depending on the form you were in. this is so confusing. why couldn't they just make it get the pikachu form regardless of hp level? why couldn't they let it catch something with any water type move?
why does the scorbunny line have libero? what the hell is libero? was there something wrong with just letting them have protean?
why does drednaw have jaw lock, a dark type move that traps it and its opponent? this isn't even that bad of a move, it just makes 0 sense on a swift swim sweeper
there are obv other ridiculous pokemon such as grapploct and zamazenta but others in the thread have covered this
anyway that's all i have to say. gamefreak was def pretty experimental with stuff this gen and a lot of it just looks weird or pointless to me.
stunfisk galar is probably one of the most obvious examples. snap trap being its signature move really just makes no sense (what use would it possibly have for a low-powered grass type attack?) and mimicry is pretty wacky cause stacking types doesn't really work when you're a really slow and defensive mon.
another good example is polteageist. alright we got a cool ghost type shell smash sweeper, its coverage is a little limited so it doesn't get out of control, and for its signature move... it makes all the pokemon on the field eat their berries. what is this? what was their plan when they put this in the game?
a lot of these ideas seem to be designed around doubles, which already means that for everyone except doubles players these abilities will be completely irrelevant, so you need to put a good amount of thought into the design. anyway, they made power spot, an ability that gives the ally pokemon additional power on its moves...and they put it on a slow and specially frail dude who has wide guard as his only doubles-relevant move (no trick room, no ally switch, none of that). the vast majority of the time having 2 good pokemon is better than having 1 slightly better than normal pokemon and 1 stonjourner. did they think this through at all?
what was the idea with sandaconda and sand spit? did they think players would use it over sand stream for some reason?
cramorant truly mystifies me. so basically you have a pokemon on par with drizzle-less pelipper and it has this incredibly convoluted ability where you reach a new form by using surf or dive successfully, and the form you reach depends on your current hp level, and it goes away when you switch out or dynamax, and if your opponent hits you while youre in the form then they take 25% hp and either get -def or parad depending on the form you were in. this is so confusing. why couldn't they just make it get the pikachu form regardless of hp level? why couldn't they let it catch something with any water type move?
why does the scorbunny line have libero? what the hell is libero? was there something wrong with just letting them have protean?
why does drednaw have jaw lock, a dark type move that traps it and its opponent? this isn't even that bad of a move, it just makes 0 sense on a swift swim sweeper
there are obv other ridiculous pokemon such as grapploct and zamazenta but others in the thread have covered this
anyway that's all i have to say. gamefreak was def pretty experimental with stuff this gen and a lot of it just looks weird or pointless to me.
If your opponent changed the weather than Sand Spit can re-summon Sandstorm, so it does have a use that Sand Stream doesn't (at least not without recalling the Pokemon and sending it back out).
Libero is a football thing.
As for why it doesn't have Protean, looks like they may consider Protean to be an involuntary genetics reaction rather than Libero which more sounds like the Pokemon is purposely choosing to do the changes. "Protean" (not to be confused with Protein) means "tending or able to change frequently or easily". It's likely meant to be another reference to Kecleon being a chameleon who can change the color of their skin. Being a ninja frog and some frogs can change their physical traits, Froakie family also gets it. I wouldn't be surprised in the feature we could see a cephalopod Pokemon getting Protean. Meanwhile Libero is much more specific and may have to wait for another sport-themed Pokemon to get it (and now watch Passimian get it...; Extra Note: I completely forgot that Passimian was in SwSh even though I know Oranguru is thanks to the Dynamax Adventure).
Well it also has the Strong Jaw Ability. But you're right Jaw Lock either should have been a Water-type or Rock-type move... and then spread to certain Pokemon of those Types which would make sense for them to have a biting move.
I wouldn't call base 70 slow, and I wouldn't called STAB Rock Slide irrelevant in doubles.
This feels very finished and sufficiently expanded upon. It doesn't catch something with other Water moves because it doesn't go underwater with other Water moves.
Flavor. Cinderace (a rabbit) does not seem capable of the same changing feats of Kecleon (a chameleon) and Greninja (a ninja frog). I don't understand soccer well enough to explain what a libero is, but it sounds like it fits. (Now as to why they wanted to give it the effect of Protean, I have no idea)
Unlike Teatime, Snap Trap, Meteor Assault, and Magic Powder (two moves you should have mentioned) Octolock is actually really strong, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.
I'm also annoyed by signature spam but most of the stuff you brought up are not good examples of it going wrong.
Mega Gardevoir gains +20 attack, a stat it shouldn't be increasing at all. Those stat boosts should have went to speed or even defense. In contrast, Mega Gallade gets a boost in attack, defense, and speed, stats it should be increasing.
Mega Gardevoir hits really fucking hard with Pixilate Hyper Voice, especially back in gen 6 when -ate abilities were a 30% boost. The majority of megas throw away a small amount of base stat points into an unused offensive stat. It's presumably a balance thing.
+20 to defense wouldn't to be too crazy for
, +20 attack feels like it was added either for added confusion recoil or for heat like Pixilate Double-Edge if you bothered to transfer it from Gen 3.
I was going to list them but I think it would be quicker to list the exceptions to the rules rather then the ones which followed it: Alakazam, Gengar, Mewtwo X, Heracross, Houndoom, Tyranitar, Mawile, Aggron, Manectric, Beedrill is a hilariously inversion, Pidgeot, Slowbro, Steelix, Lopunny, Gallade, Audino?
* Audino is a strange case as its Atk & SpA are equal at 60... but Mega gives +20 to SpA only making it 80. Not sure if that counts as technically that would have mean Audino was a mixed attacker and was made into a Special Attacker.
Though I agree, seeing Latios and Garchomp with +40 to their secondary attack stat, and the primals with a +50, makes me want to cry.
Especially when their speed was left untouched! Or in Garchomp's case, was even nerfed!
Mega Latios can make decent use of Earthquake, and I'm fairly certain the Primals do use their off attacking stats to catch usual defensive answers.
As far as signature moves/abilities go, I kinda thought Gulp Missile should have been a move that restores HP if it doesn't get hit that turn and counterattacks if it does, but whatever. It's funny.
To be fair, explaining nowadays what a libero in soccer is, is not easy.
A "libero" is a sort of last resort defender, it used to play behind the last line of defense where it would adapt to the situation and go make last effort stops and adaptations according to where the perdicament was on the field. Think of it as an hybrid of a free safety in football (defensively) and the point guard who brings up the ball and call the set in basketball (offensively).
Now, I said used to because due to the last big overhaul in soccer rules (late 80s to early 90s), where first it was made illegal for the goalkeeper to use his hands on an intentional backward pass from a defender, and then offside was introduced, the libero position has lost its groove significantly (the position is borderline dead or has transitioned to an arretrated midfielder).
Since it was a position that required adapting to the situation, function as a glue and change position according to the opponent, it makes sense that it has a Protean-like implementation.
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Ironic
The libero couldn't adapt to the newer rules....
Yeah, I still don't know why they went with "Libero" of all things.
There's a trend with positionless midfielders that can cover multiple position nowadays, that would have been a much less obscure reference.
Name it "positionless" or even a pun like "kick of all trades" and you're good. Libero is still very good, just convoluted to explain and a little far-fetched.
Sand Spit is pretty much an auto-win on weather wars. Not that common nowadays compared to Gen 5, sure, but Raihan is an example of how that works.
Yes it does. Gulp Missile is simple. Surf/Dive, Cram fishes up an Arrokuda or a Pikachu. Why not any Water move like Scald? Because it wouldn't get the chance to snatch a fish up.
The stats are just awful tho, and I suspect it's because of Gulp Missile's damage+secondary effect.
lolDex. It's a snap turtle for crying out loud, what's the problem with it? Also, pretty sure a sweeper can find an use for a damaging trapping move.
Football/Soccer reference. That's really all it is. Just flavor.
I actually like that suggestion. When I think of a Libero, I think about Volleyball, and it doesn't make any sense.
Zamazenta is outright wasted. Zacian got the better defensive typing and the Shield Pokémon that fought alongside one of Galar's ancient kings doesn't learn King's Shield.
I guess GF is old fashioned/traditional minded in more than just video game design.
Why do roggenrola and boldore have ears and no eyes, whereas gigalith has eyes INSIDE its ears?
I think gigalith "eyes" are still supposed to be "ears"
Technically the modern Libero is more fitting for the ability's name, considering that the player, while technically still a defender, can do pretty much anything needed depending on the situation. Much like the ability itself, with the user technically being a Fire-type but can be pretty much anything depending on what needs to be done.
(I've used "technically" way too much here)
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Evolution?
Jokes aside, well, maybe not as much of a joke as evolution does have a little something to do with it.
You see, Gigalith's notable trait from its previous stage is that it can fire laser beams which blasts through rock. My guess it's life cycles goes like this: Roggenrola are simple geodes with legs that use hearing to get around dark caves where sight isn't as useful. It probably moves little though is always absorbing energy from minerals and such that it finallys evolve into Boldore, having the small crystals inside its body grow bigger and outward to help store the extra energy. Now bigger and moving around a bit more it may need to move to someplace more spacious, and many likely end up venturing outside where the sun fills their crystals with even MORE energy. Now it doesn't say it, but I imagine too much energy isn't good (I imagine an explosion) so it needs a way to expel that extra energy but maybe also use it to help itself out. So it has evolved into Gigalith giving it a "mouth" in which it can focus the crystals energy to fire laser beams so it can carve out new caves & tunnels for it and its kin.
So, where do the eyes come in? I don't think you can really aim a laser with hearing, or at least do so without knowing the consequences of firing a laser at a specific spot which may cause a cave-in or landslide. So, it needed to develop essentially a targeting-system. It probably started with it developing special crystals in its ears which can use light to "see" what it would be targeting at and potentially any weak points to watch out for, and from there probably evolved into a more significant eye structure. It probably still doesn't see as the world as we see it, I imagine it's always seeing things in hues or orange, red, and maybe yellows, but that's good enough for it.
FUN FACT: Rock eyes sound like something of fantasy? While GF probably weren't thinking of this animal, there is an animal which sort of does have rocks for eyes! The sea mollusk chiton has eye structures on its shell made out of aragonite. It seems to be able to tell the difference between sizes (and maybe shape) of shadows and differences in light, though probably not much else. The eyes being like this is an evolution compromise/trade-off as if the eyes were any bigger, complex, or made of more organic material it would likely have to shrink the size of its shell. So to keep the shell its eyes were evolved with a simple & specific function with the less intricate structure/material possible.
You guys still use the term "libero"? Interesting, it is pretty much dead in my country.