(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Pikachu315111]

So, I can see my stance on a toothbrushing app is controversial, so let's move onto subjects that (I hope) are less so:

1A. Communicating with other players doing Raids
"What do you mean? You can't communicate with other players" I know, that's the problem. Lately been doing any Zeraora Raid when I see them pop-up on the Y-Comm (I'm actually been able to somewhat successfully solo the 3 & 4 star ones, though I think I still need other players for the 5 star). Anyway, for the most part everyone has made logical picks of a Ground-type such as Golurk, Palossand (both Ghost-types so immune to Fighting also), Sandaconda, and Rhyperior (who has Lightning Rod to completely nullify Electric-type moves). There's also ones who just went with Legendaries because both powerful and bulky. However there are times when someone picks a Tyranitar and I wand to warn them that Zeraora knows a Fighting-type move so will likely knock out Tyranitar (despite its Defense I've seen Zeraora rip through Tyranitars like tissue paper, usually after it buffed itself a few times). However, as I said, there's no way to do that. Like I get they don't want voice chat as they don't want bullying, but could they give us like a set of preset messages we can send someone like "(Raid Pokemon) has (Type) Moves!", "(Raid Pokemon) uses (Physical/Special) Moves!", "(Raid Pokemon) is weak to (Type)", "(Raid Pokemon) has lower (Defense/Special Defense)", etc.. Little tips you can send to someone who may not picking a Pokemon that's, in your opinion, is the best choice (they're still free to pick what Pokemon they want of course, and to have it not be annoying keep it so you can only send a message once every 10 seconds).

1B. Raids Locking In:
Also, why can't we change our choice of Pokemon once we locked them in? Like, I get we're supposed to make our choice before locking in, but sometimes someone may slip or they realize they made a bad choice. Like if its to keep people from trolling, have it so they can't change decision for 10 seconds, that way if they do want to troll that way there's at least a few second window to start the battle if everyone else has made their choice (though there's other ways to troll in Raids then that so I don't think that would even be a concern). Honestly this thought is kind of linked with the above as being able to change your choice would be more useful if you are then told something about the Raid Pokemon you didn't realize which makes you current choice less ideal.

2. From Serebii:

Updated the Cram-o-Matic page with a better explanation as the convoluted nature of it can confuse.

GF, there's sometimes being TOO convoluted. Like I get what needs to be done, but it feels like it's a lot of hoop jumping for not a lot back. Even trying to figure out how to get the wanted items feels like it might just be better to go through the Battle Tower (like getting an Ability Capsule). Only major use is turning Silver Bottle Caps into Gold. Now, I guess this is more meant to use your extra Max Raid rewards in, but still feel it could have been simplified and give some of the more wanted items like the Nature Mints & Armorite Ore.

 

[R_N]

Once you see that you just need a base item and then a bunch of filler items to flesh out the score (oh look you get a ton of high point items from raids) I think the process isn't that convoluted. And it's likely more meant as just a "wow i have a lot of junk, lets try and turn that into better junk" thing, in general.

The problem, as we talked about it in the discussion thread, is more it doesn't properly communicate that this Type aspect is how the cramomatic works.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Air Slam: 80 base power. 20% Flinch rate
The user launches a forceful blast of air at the opponent.
Notable users: Gyrados, Dragonite, Salamence.

Dual Wingbeat, don't let Dragonite and Salamence down.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Alright this is a little something I've wanted to write down for a while, and with the high possibilities of a Let's Go Johto coming tomorrow, might be a good time as ever to post about this

Let's Go

and it's massive waste of potential
​

Alright so I think the most fair way to start this rant is by saying I don't actually think Let's Go is a bad game in itself. I don't particularly mind not having abilities or items that much given that none of the pokemon available really are centered around their abilities. The game does a pretty nice job at shaking up the usual formula of wild battles and also makes it a lot more accessible to have a team of more than 6 pokemon, with you shuffling around which ones you use. Overworld encounters were really nice to see, riding your own pokemon is a very neat way to introduce interaction between you and your team and for what it is worth, the game does change some encounter tables from previous Kanto games for more availability of some mons. It does also change a few teams here and there to try to improve them. Overall it's not a bad game by any means. But does it live up to all it could have been? Well...



1 - Kanto...

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Now, I don't think a Kanto remake in itself is a bad idea at all. Kanto is far from being my favourite region and that's honestly one of the reasons why I think a remake could've been great. Afterall, due to Kanto being the first gen, it has the least amount of interesting things in it. The characters are all very one-dimensional and basic, the plot is really thin and every route is either an open plain field, a cave or a beach. Again, I know this is because it was the first entry of the franchise. But why not spice that up on a remake? I suppose the closest thing to compare it to would be OrAs since it's the remake that came closest before Let's Go. Take RSE Maxie for an example - He had a clear goal but wasn't very well developed and did not have that much depth. While OrAs Maxie is not an astoundingly amazing character, he is very much improved from RSE. I think the same could and should have applied to this, a Kanto game with a bigger plot than just Giovanni getting the Master Ball could've been a lot more interesting to play through. Characterization could honestly also expand on the gym leaders as well, but that's moreso wishful thinking. But instead we get a very confusing re-telling of Gen 1, where supposedly Red and Blue already went on to become the legends that they are today, and yet you and trace have to live through exactly everything Red and Blue did, down to disbanding Team Rocket (Which makes no sense if Red is already a huge trainer)

Second, the landscapes. As I mentioned, Kanto is very visually bland. The map layout itself is great, gives you a little bit of liberty to explore and even complete some gyms in any order you want. But is there any incentive to explore when the whole region looks the same? Sure, you can take this underground tunnel and go to the other side of the region but you'll just be met with another grass field. Other than maybe angering a few people who were really diehard fans of the original map, is there any reason why not trying to make the places you can go to more varied? Part of the target audience of these games is the anime fans, and the anime even in Kanto showed some diversity, having cannyons, deserts and even snowy hills. I genuinely think the region would have greatly benefited from some visual changes here and there, since one of the greatest bits of casually playing pokemon is just exploring the region you're in - and while Let's Go does allow you to explore, it doesn't give you much interesting things to discover. This could also expand to legendary hunting. Since there's only 4 of them anyways, it would be fun if each had their own little hunt quest (Mewtwo in its current state is fine, this is moreso aimed at the birds. They seriously still have basically no lore even after 20+ years, this was their chance to give them some oompth)

2 - Gotta catch the fist 151 (and two nuts)

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Stop to think for a moment. The last time we've played through Kanto as the main region was in Gen 3, and even then you couldn't get the Johto evos until postgame. Gen 4 added a lot of evolutions mostly to Kanto and Johto mons. Let's Go is a game partially focused on bringing GO players to the main series, and at the time Let's Go was released,GO was adding Sinnoh Evolutions. So why is it that this game limits itself to just the first 151 + Meltan/Melmetal? Now that Sword and Shield came out and Dexit is a thing, I can understand where they were going with not having all gens in, but couldn't they at least have added the evos? If they did have them, this would legit be the first time you could play in Kanto with pokemon such as Crobat (FrLg locked it behind postgame), Steelix, Electivire, Porygon-Z and the like. Not only that but some trainer teams would be allowed to have more variety (Looking at you, Fighting-Trainer with the very weak Onix). I can understand why they made some of their other decisions, but this here is genuinely a stupid choice and I can't see a single reason why not to include all of the evolutions. When it comes down to it, the teams you can form in all of RBGY, FrLg and LGPE are nearly the same aside from a few encounter tables that have been made more available + allowing Alolan Forms to exist. Looking at OrAs again, it added the Dex Nav, and while finding new gen mons through it was only available after the seventh gym, they at least still gave you that option. Plus, some mons found in Hoenn that had Gen 4 evos still were allowed to get those, and the biggest example being Wally having Gallade.

It's not like it was impossible to get them because of how they evolve either - Alolan Persian usually evolves by friendship, but since Let's Go doesn't have that, they changed the way it evolves for Let's Go, so they surely could make changes to the way the other ones evolve too if needed. This would have been a simple change and surely not that hard to work into the game, but would have honestly improved the game a lot, and it really baffles me that they deliberately decided to not go down this route.

3 - Revamping and Devamping

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This isn't something I'd usually expect from a game like this in the first place, buuuut... since they used things such as Mega Gyarados and Mega Kangaskhan in trailers to advertise this game, despite those being six years old already when the game's trailers were popping up, is there any big reason as to why not add new megas? I understand that competitive is hardly the focus of this game, and it was introducing Megas to newer players that might not have known about them. But said megas could then carry on to future games, and they also would give old players something new to look forward to. Not to mention, Kanto does still have a bunch of odd apples who really need a buff. Pokemon such as Dodrio, Dewgong, Jynx and Fearow are all really bottom of the barrel and couldn't keep up with all the recent gens, so why not give them a little something? (Specially Mega Butterfree given Beedrill has one). I know this bit is more wishful thinking, but if any game had a pass for making Kanto pandering, it was Let's Go.

On another note, however, I think the game also misses its opportunity to devamp a current gimmick. Just the games before these, we were introduced to Regional Variants. This was something introduced in gen 7, so gens 1-6 can't have their own regional variants unless those are added in some sort of comeback to said regions. Something like, you know, a remake. It would be a very interesting 180 on how only Kanto mons got Alolan Forms, this time making Kantonian Forms for pokemon from recent gens.

Both of these also have had the potential to increase both Pokemon and Type variety to the game, which I pointed out in the previous topic. Who knows, maybe if we did get Kantonian Forms, Lance could've been an actual Dragon type trainer.

tl;dr: Kanto is region that would have benefited from additions and changes to its region, characters and its list of catchable pokemon, but Let's Go, despite being fun and a pretty nice game, doesn't quite deliver that

Bonus - Johto

As of writing this, Let's Go Johto is all but a rumor. Still, I want to present a quick breakdown of why I'm worried about how it could be executed wrongly and be another huge wasted potential

Basically, Johto suffers from all of what Kanto suffers, but to make matters worse it has a giant looming over it... and that giant is Kanto itself. It feels like the devs genuinely wanted to push aside the Gen 2 stuff in favour of Gen 1 even back then, and I personally find it really sad that one of the immediate responses when people ask why GS/HGSS are so liked isn't because of Johto itself, it's because of Kanto. Even in-game, a lot of johto mons are very obscure to be found, and some in-game teams don't even use Johto mons. Not a single trainer in Morty's gym uses Misdreavus, for an example. If that in itself wasn't enough, Johto suffers hugely from its rather weak roster. With every new game, it just kinda feels like most Johto mons are left behind, and unlike at least some other mons that are weak but have a generally well liked design, I can't see many people enthusiastic about a huge portion of Gen 2 mons. When was the last time you saw people discussing about how much they like Girafarig, or Ariados, or Qwilfish, or god forbid, Stantler? I know every gen has some pokemon that will be left underpowered and forgotte, but for Johto it genuinely feels like over half the dex is composed of this archetype.

I don't mean any of this to say Johto is bad. By the contrary, I say this because I really wish the region and its pokemon get a buff to breath some new life again after being dead for so long. But if LGPE is anything to go off of, none of this will happen. And unlike Kanto, whose mons usually get a lot of attention driven to them by the developers, Johto is rather forgotten. There's still only one single Regional Variant of a Gen 2 mons, and still only 6 megas. I personally believe Johto is the region most deserving of a remake, mainly because it's the region that most needs one so that it can still stand strong alongside current gens, a lot more than Kanto - And that's precisely why I'm very afraid that they waste this perfect opportunity

Personally hoping for these games would be at least including the later gen evos + megas. Who knows, they seemingly listened to fans' feedback on LGPE enough to make Overworld Encounters a thing in Gen 8, maybe they listen to people who think the evos should be in. For a more wishful thinking list (Which is very likely not gonna happen), they could maybe add Johtonian Forms, given they clearly still want to make Regional Variants (If they really wanted to, they could make Kantonian forms for the post game too, but even less likely). And who knows, with Megas being added to GO, maybe they have enough reasoning to make new ones.

They could also retcon some of the beta gen 2 mons back into existing but that's being too delusional and going off topic from my main point

 

[Yung Dramps]

Stop to think for a moment. The last time we've played through Kanto as the main region was in Gen 3, and even then you couldn't get the Johto evos until postgame. Gen 4 added a lot of evolutions mostly to Kanto and Johto mons. Let's Go is a game partially focused on bringing GO players to the main series, and at the time Let's Go was released,GO was adding Sinnoh Evolutions. So why is it that this game limits itself to just the first 151 + Meltan/Melmetal? Now that Sword and Shield came out and Dexit is a thing, I can understand where they were going with not having all gens in, but couldn't they at least have added the evos? If they did have them, this would legit be the first time you could play in Kanto with pokemon such as Crobat (FrLg locked it behind postgame), Steelix, Electivire, Porygon-Z and the like. Not only that but some trainer teams would be allowed to have more variety (Looking at you, Fighting-Trainer with the very weak Onix). I can understand why they made some of their other decisions, but this here is genuinely a stupid choice and I can't see a single reason why not to include all of the evolutions. When it comes down to it, the teams you can form in all of RBGY, FrLg and LGPE are nearly the same aside from a few encounter tables that have been made more available + allowing Alolan Forms to exist. Looking at OrAs again, it added the Dex Nav, and while finding new gen mons through it was only available after the seventh gym, they at least still gave you that option. Plus, some mons found in Hoenn that had Gen 4 evos still were allowed to get those, and the biggest example being Wally having Gallade.

HARD agree on this point. Seriously I really don't get why they didn't include the Gen 4 evos in Let's Go despite having Alolan forms, Megas and even a totally new Pokemon in there already. If they did and incorporated them properly I would have no qualms in calling LGPE the definitive Kanto experience over FRLG and probably would've even bought them or at least been more interested

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I personally find it really sad that one of the immediate responses when people ask why GS/HGSS are so liked isn't because of Johto itself, it's because of Kanto

Huh. I never really though about that before, but now that you mention it, you're totally right. I frequently hear "there are two regions to explore" and rarely hear "the regions you explore are good". Quantity over quality, basically.

 

[CPU]

Huh. I never really though about that before, but now that you mention it, you're totally right. I frequently hear "there are two regions to explore" and rarely hear "the regions you explore are good". Quantity over quality, basically.

I know it messes with the level curve of the games (moreso Johto, but that's partly because of Kanto too), but i really like the non-linear layout of Kanto and Johto. Actually gives you options when playing the game on how you want to progress. I think the regions themselves are fine, from a gameplay standpoint, too, if a little lacking in scenery. Johto's biggest flaw, IMO, is how hard it is to find a lot of the new Pokémon in it. Not to mention all the new Pokémon that are only found in Kanto for some reason?

 

[Sonikku A]

Above all, I wouldnt want Let's Go Gen 2 made cuz I hate the artstyle

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I know it messes with the level curve of the games (moreso Johto, but that's partly because of Kanto too), but i really like the non-linear layout of Kanto and Johto. Actually gives you options when playing the game on how you want to progress. I think the regions themselves are fine, from a gameplay standpoint, too, if a little lacking in scenery. Johto's biggest flaw, IMO, is how hard it is to find a lot of the new Pokémon in it. Not to mention all the new Pokémon that are only found in Kanto for some reason?

Oh yeah, they definitely have good points. It's just that those points are rarely brought up when some joe is praising Gen 2. It's usually just the fact that there's two regions at all.

 

[Codraroll]

When was the last time you saw people discussing about how much they like Girafarig, or Ariados, or Qwilfish, or god forbid, Stantler? I know every gen has some pokemon that will be left underpowered and forgotte, but for Johto it genuinely feels like over half the dex is composed of this archetype.

This is a bit of a problem in LPGE, but in a Let's Go Johto game, the lack of cross-generation evolutions would be outright disastrous. Johto had a ton of crapmons that were redeemed by their evolutions in Gen IV, and their absence would be even more jarring than that of Crobat and Steelix. Pokémon like Aipom, Yanma, Murkrow, Gligar, and Sneasel would be back to being single-stage 'mons with mediocre stats, and they would only bolster the ranks of forgettable Gen II 'mons you listed above. Johto has a really bad case of its original 'mons being subpar, while the Kanto roster can at least stand on its own legs. Additionally there are Pokémon like Wobbuffet or Azumarill that are close to worthless without their Abilities.

I hate to say it, but Johto was kinda poor, and it badly needed the support of the generations that came after it (heck, it already relied heavily on the support of the generation that came before it). As a yPokémon game, it needs those later revamps and alterations to stay enjoyable, and I would even argue that it could need even more polish than what HGSS added. In addition to the need for more regional variants you mentioned above, the region itself could use a touch up. Cherrygrove City doesn't even have a cherry grove.

All that being said, I doubt Let's Go Johto is what will be revealed today. There has been some talk about a mobile game (or was that MOBA?) developed by Tencent, I bet it's that project we'll see a glimpse of.

 

[greentyphlosion]

So this is something that's probably fully intended to annoy me, but goddammit I'm annoyed by it anyway.

Why does Sableye have Stall?

Both of its other abilities are far superior (and considering one of them is Keen Eye, that's quite an accomplishment). It doesn't have a major thematic link to the concept of moving last as far as I can see and it's already slow as hell anyway. It's not like it needs an extra reason to wait to take its turn. And there's so little you can do with the ability; it's not like there are a whole lot of ways to subvert moves like Counter and Vital Throw that would make Stall needed. If you insist on using CounterSash Sableye, you're still going last 99% of the time barring the odd opponent using Roar or something.

And why, in 4 generations, has no other Pokemon received this ability? I can think of one or two who might actually appreciate it. Bastiodon has Metal Burst and is bulky enough to survive most attacks (granted, it has other abilities, but I'm just thinking of what seems suited) and having such a strategic ability vaguely fits its castle-like design.

Yes, there are other bad abilities, like Slow Start, Defeatist, and Truant. But they're all deliberately given to Pokemon that are overpowered. Sableye really, really isn't. Even with Wonder Guard it'd still be a pretty bad Pokemon.

Is there any practical way to use Stall Sableye well? Am I overlooking some hidden and devastating strategy people have happened upon? Please enlighten me if so.

 

[Kurona]

So this is something that's probably fully intended to annoy me, but goddammit I'm annoyed by it anyway.

Why does Sableye have Stall?

Both of its other abilities are far superior (and considering one of them is Keen Eye, that's quite an accomplishment). It doesn't have a major thematic link to the concept of moving last as far as I can see and it's already slow as hell anyway. It's not like it needs an extra reason to wait to take its turn. And there's so little you can do with the ability; it's not like there are a whole lot of ways to subvert moves like Counter and Vital Throw that would make Stall needed. If you insist on using CounterSash Sableye, you're still going last 99% of the time barring the odd opponent using Roar or something.

And why, in 4 generations, has no other Pokemon received this ability? I can think of one or two who might actually appreciate it. Bastiodon has Metal Burst and is bulky enough to survive most attacks (granted, it has other abilities, but I'm just thinking of what seems suited) and having such a strategic ability vaguely fits its castle-like design.

Yes, there are other bad abilities, like Slow Start, Defeatist, and Truant. But they're all deliberately given to Pokemon that are overpowered. Sableye really, really isn't. Even with Wonder Guard it'd still be a pretty bad Pokemon.

Is there any practical way to use Stall Sableye well? Am I overlooking some hidden and devastating strategy people have happened upon? Please enlighten me if so.

Gen 4 strangely just... decided to give two already subpar Pokémon really bad hindering exclusive abilities for no reason. Sableye got Stall, Delcatty got Normalize. I've yet to understand the decision process behind this at all.

 

[greentyphlosion]

Gen 4 strangely just... decided to give two already subpar Pokémon really bad hindering exclusive abilities for no reason. Sableye got Stall, Delcatty got Normalize. I've yet to understand the decision process behind this at all.

Normalise is nowhere near on the same level. It's not stellar, but there are some aspects which can be utilised for strategy. I once saw a player paralyse a Garchomp with Thunder Wave, for instance. What I'm saying is that it has pros as well as cons.

Stall has no pros that are readily apparent. It's got much more in common with Slow Start or Defeatist.

 

[Kurona]

Normalise is nowhere near on the same level. It's not stellar, but there are some aspects which can be utilised for strategy. I once saw a player paralyse a Garchomp with Thunder Wave, for instance. What I'm saying is that it has pros as well as cons.

Stall has no pros that are readily apparent. It's got much more in common with Slow Start or Defeatist.

Thunder Wave is pretty much the only application though -- it's the one people always bring up and they're never able to give any other examples because that's literally all there is. And at the end of the day... all it's done is give Delcatty Glare at the cost of everything else. In much the same way, you can argue Stall allows Sableye to always get off a powerful Payback.

 

[Worldie]

Thunder Wave is pretty much the only application though -- it's the one people always bring up and they're never able to give any other examples because that's literally all there is. And at the end of the day... all it's done is give Delcatty Glare at the cost of everything else. In much the same way, you can argue Stall allows Sableye to always get off a powerful Payback.

You guyse don't see that the Galaxybrain reason it has Stall is to troll opposing Gardevoir and Porygon (and Megakazam) to Trace it

 

[R_N]

Gen 8's GTS might be the worst in the entire series

People have complained at length about the GTS before but if you know how to finesse it, it's pretty easy to get what you want in a pretty snappy timeframe.

Gen 8's meanwhile is terrible for 2 reasons
1. It's locked to Mobile Home. Using the GTS at all requires leaving SWSH, opening Switch Home to deposit any Pokemon you want to GTS off, closing Switch Home, opening Mobile Home and then depositing them into the GTS. Then you have to make sure to go into Home later on to check if it got deposited, then go back to Switch Home to move it to SWSH. This is far more convoluted than any GTS process prior, including the games where you had to go to the Pokemon Center to do it. Juggling 3 apps and 1 of them requires a separate device; even if it's all free and most people have a phone it's still an assortment of extra steps and loading times. It's a definite deterrent
2. Home has a reward for having a living dex, which means that the problem that's always plagued the GTS (asking for legendary pokemon) is somehow worse??
2a. There's a filter to remove legendary listings but oops Kubfu & Urshifu weren't put on the filter list and double oops UBs dont count as Legends

Like I want a Heracross, right? So I just did what I usually do: catch the VE of it (Pinsir, in this case), put it on the GTS for Heracross and wait. Ignoring the extra hoops I had to go through for this, it's been days and it still hasn't been taken. I decide to just try my hand at manual searches; the usual problem here aside from wading through all the terrible trades is finding the good trades before they get taken up. The problem here is it is NOTHING BUT TERRIBLE TRADES. I think there are 50 listings shown at a time and they are all Kubfu, Urshifu and Porygon2. As mentioned in 2a the legendary filter isn't working properly on the bears, but even before this I was typically seeing nothing but shit trades (Poipoles, typically) when I experimented with the GTS previously.

And this isn't the only time I've ran into this issue. I've had other POkemon, fairly reasonable pokemon for fairly reasonable asks (starters for starters and the like), just sit there for weeks.

I am pretty sure the way the GTS is set up puts a lot of (more reaasonable) people from using it than otherwise would be and that means less people searching for & putting up reasonable trades. Meanwhile the living dex reward is causing a sharp uptick in uneeded asks.

Bonus round: Home has a little tally of total trades. Note this is all trades done through the app, including room trades, wonder trade and the gts. I have a strong suspicion that the 11 million number is actually much lower than they want it to be.

 

[greentyphlosion]

Thunder Wave is pretty much the only application though -- it's the one people always bring up and they're never able to give any other examples because that's literally all there is. And at the end of the day... all it's done is give Delcatty Glare at the cost of everything else. In much the same way, you can argue Stall allows Sableye to always get off a powerful Payback.

Yes, it's literally all there is but it's still a pro, which was my original point. I'm sure there must be something else. Yes it's largely a hindering ability but there's a positive effect, much as Hustle and Sheer Force both hinder and help. (Although it's obviously not nearly as useful)

You guyse don't see that the Galaxybrain reason it has Stall is to troll opposing Gardevoir and Porygon (and Megakazam) to Trace it

I mean this is actually a fair usage of it but it's so ridiculously situational... at least Durant gets Entrainment. IIRC Sableye can't transfer Stall itself can it?

Oh, wait. Just checked and it does learn Role Play. So that's something!

 

[R_N]

Yes, it's literally all there is but it's still a pro, which was my original point. I'm sure there must be something else. Yes it's largely a hindering ability but there's a positive effect, much as Hustle and Sheer Force both hinder and help. (Although it's obviously not nearly as useful)



I mean this is actually a fair usage of it but it's so ridiculously situational... at least Durant gets Entrainment. IIRC Sableye can't transfer Stall itself can it?

Oh, wait. Just checked and it does learn Role Play. So that's something!

Role Play gives Sableye the opponent's ability.
Sableye itself has neither Skill Swap or Entrainment

 

[Ironmage]

Clearly Sableye has Stall because it isn't slow enough to use Payback effectively.

I don't have a better explanation. I even bothered to check the inspiration's wikipedia page (which interestingly states that they were probably owls misidentified by drunks), there's nothing there about being particularly slow.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Thunder Wave is pretty much the only application [of Normalize] though -- it's the one people always bring up and they're never able to give any other examples because that's literally all there is. And at the end of the day... all it's done is give Delcatty Glare at the cost of everything else. In much the same way, you can argue Stall allows Sableye to always get off a powerful Payback.

Are you sure about that? :)

 

[Zowayix]

There has been some talk about a mobile game (or was that MOBA?) developed by Tencent, I bet it's that project we'll see a glimpse of.

how the fuck

 

[Codraroll]

how the fuck

There had been some talk.

 

[greentyphlosion]

Role Play gives Sableye the opponent's ability.
Sableye itself has neither Skill Swap or Entrainment

Holy crap, I've been wrong about what that move did for years. In my defence, I've been playing the game since before that move was even a thing and I don't think I've ever used it.

 

[Kurona]

Holy crap, I've been wrong about what that move did for years. In my defence, I've been playing the game since before that move was even a thing and I don't think I've ever used it.

I don't think most people do!

 

[Worldie]

It's not exactly a move you really use.
I had it on my Syncronizers since it helped scouting abilities while SOS chaining in gen 7 if I was looking for a specific HA, but that's really the only time I think I bothered with it