I forgot G-Max Coalossal!
Weakness Policy + Steam Engine is no joke once allowed to run rampant.
Not exactly fond of this idea but it does allow the player to focus on only the design without sacrifying utility as a plus.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
Weakness Policy + Steam Engine is no joke once allowed to run rampant.
So gen 5 introduced critical captures, and the rate where they happen increases the more of the pokedex you have filled out (captured, not seen). It's a pretty nice system, encourages you to do capture more and flesh it. I like it a lot
In BW1/2 you can get to that x2 multiplier not too bad and you'll even get to enjoy the 600.
XY/ORAS benefit a lot from this; there's over 700 pokemon now after all and the available pokemon are very jam packed
however we start encountering a bit of a goofy problem: they've never altered these rates
You're first thought is wrong because this first starts being a "problem" in gen 7
SM only has about eh....like 380-ish pokemon available in it without transfers. It's going to take you a relatively long time to reach the 1.5 multiplier and you cannot go higher without Bank.
USUM I think can breach 600, but it's a pretty tight window and requires SM trades.
And then of course you have something like Let's Go, where you're not getting past the 0.5 multiplier
DLC-less SWSH will never leave 1.5 and it was only after CT wher eyou can reach the 2.5 threshold again.
And BDSP of course, will require every trick in the book to reach the x2 multiplier.
If they're going to keep doing these things I think they should probably make it "species caught as a ratio of the regional dex", imo. The catching charm helps a little but just feels like sidestepping the issue.
| Species Caught | Multiplier |
|---|---|
| >600 | 2.5 |
| 451-600 | 2 |
| 301-450 | 1.5 |
| 151-300 | 1 |
| 31-150 | 0.5 |
| ≤30 | 0 |
In BW1/2 you can get to that x2 multiplier not too bad and you'll even get to enjoy the 600.
XY/ORAS benefit a lot from this; there's over 700 pokemon now after all and the available pokemon are very jam packed
however we start encountering a bit of a goofy problem: they've never altered these rates
You're first thought is wrong because this first starts being a "problem" in gen 7
SM only has about eh....like 380-ish pokemon available in it without transfers. It's going to take you a relatively long time to reach the 1.5 multiplier and you cannot go higher without Bank.
USUM I think can breach 600, but it's a pretty tight window and requires SM trades.
And then of course you have something like Let's Go, where you're not getting past the 0.5 multiplier
DLC-less SWSH will never leave 1.5 and it was only after CT wher eyou can reach the 2.5 threshold again.
And BDSP of course, will require every trick in the book to reach the x2 multiplier.
If they're going to keep doing these things I think they should probably make it "species caught as a ratio of the regional dex", imo. The catching charm helps a little but just feels like sidestepping the issue.
Suddenly popped in my head that Sinistea's exclusive move might actually STAY exclusive
Shame, cuz I'd like to see what other mons fancy a tea
Personally I'd choose these (some fake mons may apply, also my reasoning for these is pretty stupid)
Shame, cuz I'd like to see what other mons fancy a tea
Personally I'd choose these (some fake mons may apply, also my reasoning for these is pretty stupid)
Kadabra
Alakazam
Mr Mime
Magmar
Kangaaskhan
Mewtwo
Togepi
Quagsire
Kingdra
Wobuffet
Pengas
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Wynaut
Snorunt
Glalie
Frosghast
Kecleon
Spinda
Magmortar
GKecleon
Alakazam
Mr Mime
Magmar
Kangaaskhan
Mewtwo
Togepi
Quagsire
Kingdra
Wobuffet
Pengas
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Wynaut
Snorunt
Glalie
Frosghast
Kecleon
Spinda
Magmortar
GKecleon
Teatime is certainly one of those Signature Moves which feel like they'll remain exclusive until they make another tea or at least drink-based Pokemon again, if ever.
However, they've stretched and made exceptions before. I imagine any Pokemon that would receive Teatime would be ones of a playful sort. Here's my thinking (NOTE: Teatime would need to be made into a TM as Polteageist is genderless thus can't spread it through breeding under the current mechanics):
Girly: Call it sexist, but "girls playing teatime" is (or was) a trope constantly seen and thus ingrained as a thing just girls do. So with that let's look through the female only or female leaning Pokemon. Of them I can see the following sitting down for a lovely tea party:
- 100% Female: Nidoran female family, Chansey family, Kangaskhan, Jynx family, Miltank, Illumise, Vespiquen, Froslass, Petilil family, Flabebe family, Bounsweet family, Hatenna family, Milcery family
- 3:1 Female: Clefairy family, Jigglypuff family, Snubbull family, Skitty family, Glameow family, Minccino family, Gothita family
March Hare & The Dormouse: Hatenna family reminded me of another possible stretch: The Mad Hatter's & March Hare's tea parties from Alice in Wonderland. While there aren't really that many hat Pokemon, Hatenna sort of being the main one, there's not only "hare/rabbit" Pokemon we could look into but let's not forget that also at the tea party was the Dormouse so that ropes in the "mouse/rodent" Pokemon!
- Hares/Rabbits: Buneary family, Bunnelby family
- Mouse/Rodent: Pikachu family & Pikaclones, Sentret family, Marill family (which Azurill also count toward a rabbit!), Sentret family, Bidoof family, Patrat family
Food-based Pokemon: I mean, why not? At a tea party you don't just drink tea, there's little finger foods, fruit, and treats. Now I already mentioned some above like the Bounsweet family and Milcery family but there's still a few others like the Cherubi family & Swirlix family (moreso Slurpuff). Not sure if I would include the Vanillite family, like ice cream really isn't something that goes with tea, BUT it is cute and would be a funny image. Also, though a bit of a stretch, the Elemental Monkeys were designed to be helpful around a kitchen including with brewing tea: Pansage picks the freshest herbs/tea leaves, Panpour pours fresh water, and Pansear cooks/boils. On that same thought I guess you could include the Snorlax family and Lickitung family.
Type Rundown:
- Ghost: Since Polteageist is a Ghost-type I feel the Ghost-types should be given a chance to get it even if the move isn't really linked to something ghostly. So let's see what we have: Misdreavus family, Shuppet family, Frillish family, Pumpkaboo family, & Mimikyu I can see sitting around a table sipping some tea (well, to be fair, I can also see the Gastly family, Duskull family, Sableye, Yamask family, & Phantump family but they're not as thematic as the ones I mentioned).
- Water: What Pokemon would be better as drinking than a Water-type, they breath liquid! Slowking, maybe Corsola, Lombre/Ludicolo maybe also, Piplup family, Manaphy/Phione, Oshawott family (samurai draink tea), Froakie family (ninja drank tea too), Popplio family, Mareanie family, Sobble family (British spies drink tea). Milotic if it had any arms, guess it can use its tail? I'd say Luvdisc and Alomomola but, in addition to the no limbs thing, they also look like a pastry you'd eat at a tea party...
- Grass: The effect of the move has both targets eating their berries which I feel ties it into the Grass-type. And here we got Oddish family (or at leasts its evolutions), Chikorita family, Sunflora, Celebi, Nuzleaf/Shiftry (tengu seem like yokai that'll drink tea), Reselia family, Shaymin, Snivy family, Sewaddle family, Whimsicott, & Gossifluer family. Would be pretty funny to see Snover family drinking tea for same reason as Vanillite.
- Normal/Psychic/Fairy: Finally, let's just do all the miscellaneous "cute" Pokemon which are pretty much all tied in these Types: Eevee family, G-Ponyta family, Mr. Mime family (Normal & especially Galarian), Mew, Togepi family, Aipom family, Teddiursa family, Ralts family, Slakoth family, Mawile, Chimecho family, Jirachi, Victini, Munna family, Audino, Meloetta, Furfrou, Spritzee family, Espurr family, Diancie, Cutiefly family, Stufful family, Oranguru, Drampa, Magearna, Skwovet family, & Indeedee.
I could go on like maybe look through the Human-like Egg Group but honestly I think I made a bigger list than I thought I would. Thinking about it, Teatime ain't that exclusive as I thought it would.
If Mewtwo would get it Diancie and Rayquaza should get it too
Last edited:
Something that bugs me, and this affects many franchise fandoms, is the heavy Mandela effect/misnostalgia
It's worse when devs try to actually be faithful, but because of the Mandela effect people just treat like a new foreign thing. One that comes to mind are the colors for XY models being based directly on Sugimori's post Gen 3 art, though people act like "the 3D medium did it for lots or cuz 3D sucks" when it didn't for those reasons. It's trash don't get me wrong, but don't act like this came out of the blue for your "narrative"
Especially when Entei is saturated...like its art
At the same time GF HAS tried supporting the Mandela effect caused by other more popular spinoffs for consistency. Like most Gen 1/2 mon changes the anime introduced. Or just "modernizing" for remakes
BDSP is probably the first a remake is faithful to OG art for humans. FRLG and HGSS, Oras and LGPE especially drastically changed designs. Yet, despite people raving these characters, they rarely ever reference the original design in fanwork, outside Kris and Leaf, though that's for other reasons
Fanbase nostalgia is fickle, and ultimately what hurts a lot of remakes, official for reception, or fanmade for accuracy. The fanbase is far more likely to flanderize stuff too. And then the company either pisses them off in doing something different, or caters to the misnostalgia. Or (rarely) is faithful to intentions of the past devs
It's a vicious cycle
It's worse when devs try to actually be faithful, but because of the Mandela effect people just treat like a new foreign thing. One that comes to mind are the colors for XY models being based directly on Sugimori's post Gen 3 art, though people act like "the 3D medium did it for lots or cuz 3D sucks" when it didn't for those reasons. It's trash don't get me wrong, but don't act like this came out of the blue for your "narrative"
Especially when Entei is saturated...like its art
At the same time GF HAS tried supporting the Mandela effect caused by other more popular spinoffs for consistency. Like most Gen 1/2 mon changes the anime introduced. Or just "modernizing" for remakes
BDSP is probably the first a remake is faithful to OG art for humans. FRLG and HGSS, Oras and LGPE especially drastically changed designs. Yet, despite people raving these characters, they rarely ever reference the original design in fanwork, outside Kris and Leaf, though that's for other reasons
Fanbase nostalgia is fickle, and ultimately what hurts a lot of remakes, official for reception, or fanmade for accuracy. The fanbase is far more likely to flanderize stuff too. And then the company either pisses them off in doing something different, or caters to the misnostalgia. Or (rarely) is faithful to intentions of the past devs
It's a vicious cycle
are we just calling retcons (stuff the remakes trend towards ie not pretending eggs were "just discovered" since that makes no sense at this point in the franchise) and standardizations (various design tweaks done by sugimori and friends to iron out the various weirdness across the franchise)) mandela effect now
and also are we trying to position the updated designs as trying to rick people into thinkin they looked like that before...???
and also are we trying to position the updated designs as trying to rick people into thinkin they looked like that before...???
That's not the Mandela effect. That's just referencing something other than the in-game sprites. If it were a case of Mandela, it would be the opposite of what you described. The desaturated models would truly have no basis in prior depictions, but a large portion of people think they used to look like that.Something that bugs me, and this affects many franchise fandoms, is the heavy Mandela effect/misnostalgia
It's worse when devs try to actually be faithful, but because of the Mandela effect people just treat like a new foreign thing. One that comes to mind are the colors for XY models being based directly on Sugimori's post Gen 3 art, though people act like "the 3D medium did it for lots or cuz 3D sucks" when it didn't for those reasons. It's trash don't get me wrong, but don't act like this came out of the blue for your "narrative"
Especially when Entei is saturated...like its art
At the same time GF HAS tried supporting the Mandela effect caused by other more popular spinoffs for consistency. Like most Gen 1/2 mon changes the anime introduced. Or just "modernizing" for remakes
BDSP is probably the first a remake is faithful to OG art for humans. FRLG and HGSS, Oras and LGPE especially drastically changed designs. Yet, despite people raving these characters, they rarely ever reference the original design in fanwork, outside Kris and Leaf, though that's for other reasons
Fanbase nostalgia is fickle, and ultimately what hurts a lot of remakes, official for reception, or fanmade for accuracy. The fanbase is far more likely to flanderize stuff too. And then the company either pisses them off in doing something different, or caters to the misnostalgia. Or (rarely) is faithful to intentions of the past devs
It's a vicious cycle
No I mean that the fanbase pretty much ignored art directly from devs except ironically, remake characters. They overrelied on the anime (this only really applies for Gen 1/2 mons since that was before GF sent ref model sheets), or "limited" sprites. And then when something isn't that, they get nettled.
Most aren't even aware many gen 1 mons changed post FRLG. Which makes those "Genwunner design videos" seem really dumb in retrospect cuz history is just ignored
Updating designs is fine, and rarely ever in malicious intent
Just yesterday I had to deal with a guy that blamed 3D for Cascoon/Silcoon having 2 eyes, and not being a cyclops. It was like...have they never seen the mons outside main game Sprites?
And again, the fact they defaulted to blaming a medium is silly
It reminds me far too much of elitists in a certain hedgehog's franchise...
Generally, people kinda don't seem to realize gameplay (or even story) elements in older games are limited in scope, either due to dev inexperience or limitations/rushing. When a remake is brought up, fans gravitate for sticking rigidly to it, which in Pokemon causes issues in terrain, world building, and scale. A city is NOT 6 people
This is basically where the "misnostalgia" or even mandela effect for some details set
GF unfortunately know that fans will be peeved if anything substantial (like blocky layouts) change. It's why every remake relatively is the same layout wise (FRLG's Sevii Islands are post game, but the maingame areas are similar), with a fresh coat of "paint" (QoL) for menus/battle mechanics
Can they make a full fledged remake with worlds as big and inspiring like the anime? Maybe
Will they? That depends on how open the fanbase is
Or alternatively, they can just modernize completely for setting/twist things up like some remakes. FF7 for instance is an alt universe, and ORAS has some story elements that suggest so, despite repeated limitations for layout
GF
While you'll find various definitions online, from how I understand it the Mandela Effect is an example of a false memory of something that never existed. So DrPumpkinz is correct.
Now what you're describing is also an example of false memory which the Mandela Effect falls under, but it's a different kind. Not sure if it has a definite term, but what you're describing is a large of number of people's perceiving something is incorrect based on their first exposure to the material not realizing there was a prior/alt version of the material that's being referenced thus is correct. It's more of a conflict of point of view.
Also, I wouldn't have used Entei because, looking at Entei's official art, sprites, and model I could barely tell a difference. If you want a batch of Pokemon this applies to here's an Imgur of more notable models that differ from their sprites (and the model then being colored to better match the sprite). I'll just post some that I find notable:
Anyway, I don't think it's anything to get mad about. Even you noted that you prefer the more vibrant colors of the sprite, and the Imgur pics show they could have been done on the models. So it doesn't really matter whether they know the color palette is referencing the Sugimori official art or not, in the end they just don't like the more dull/faded/washed out appearance to their favorite Pokemon.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Sugimori didn't consider his drawing's color palette to be the official colors, he was just drawing the characters in a way that looked good. If you look at the 2D drawings of the Imgur Pokemon, despite them having the faded colors, they look perfectly fine due to the way he drew them (their pose, applying lighting & shading, etc).
*Looks confusingly left and right* Okay, where did this come from? We were discussing about people's personal preference to Pokemon's color palettes and suddenly you jumped to this. Like, okay, so not a lot of artists draw the human characters in their old designs. So? It's not like they're using designs made by the fandom and trying to push it as an official appearance, the new designs are just as official as the older ones, possibly even moreso. You can obviously prefer the older designs over the new ones, I too prefer some original designs such as Shelly & Wallace, but I'm not going to say that invalidates the newer designs. Heck, Pokemon Masters seems to be the closest we have to what GF considers the preferred designs and it doesn't strictly stick to one game's design aesthetic, default Brock is from FRLG while default Misty is from Let's Go (also Let's Go designs actually tried to stick closer to the original sprite designs moreso than FRLG); and that's not to mention it includes alt costumes both unique to the game and referencing other games & media depictions.
I've read that paragraph a few times now and I don't quite understand what you're trying to say with it; I think you mixed a few thoughts together and they didn't come out quite right.
Like, have the remakes been hurt from them going with new designs? I don't think so, from what I can tell they sold just as well as the main games of that gen (it's usually the third versions which have lower sells). And no matter our complaining them using older designs for LGPE and BDSP doesn't seem to have hurt them at all either. And who past devs are they not being faithful to, themselves? I'll give you the fanbase does sometimes make mountains out of mole hills, but a lot of times it's also usually a vocal minority. The number of people complaining is VASTLY outnumbered by those who just don't care, many just want to play a fun Pokemon game.
I don't like BDSP because I don't think they change enough from the original or didn't incorporate the notable parts of Platinum, but that's a personal issue because there's a ton of new players who never played Gen IV so BDSP might as well be a completely new Pokemon game to them. Like I've been watching clips of the Hololive Vtubers playing through BDSP and they're having plenty fun and reacting to battles, story events, and Pokemon encounters/evolutions for the first time. It made me feel a bit nostalgic about my first time playing through Diamond. And they probably wouldn't be acting any different if they did change the designs or added more story elements, to them and the thousands of others who never played Gen IV before it doesn't matter. Those of us who did play the originals wish there was more and know what new players are missing out on, but we're the minority and it's not going to affect their sales in the slightest or the general positive reception of the game (cause, though it's the vanilla DP, it's still DP which were perfectly serviceable games).
... You think GF didn't update the maps & scope of cities & towns because they were worried about backlash from the fanbase?
GF doesn't give a flying mulch what the fanbase thinks when it comes to redesigning pretty much anything in the game. They keep the map the same because its easy and already done, anything they redesign is out of pure interest on their part. They didn't care what fans would have thought redesigning Mauville City, replacing the Abandoned Ship with Sea Mauville, or making New Mauville only a single room in ORAS, they did it because they wanted to do something interesting they thought of which consequently also affected something which already existed to be made shorter to match their new vision.
If they cared about what the fans thought ORAS and BDSP would have their Battle Frontiers and other third version additions which improved the quality of the game. If they cared they would remake the cities & towns to make them larger (or at least look it) & have more people. But they don't because that wasn't what interested them thus they just went with what was there because if it ain't broke don't fix it I guess (also a bit of nostalgia on their part could be at play; THEIR nostalgia, not the fans). And if GameFreak does make any changes they'll do it wholeheartedly not caring if it upset fans, infact they're probably not even thinking about that but more of what the player's experience would be exploring the city/town at the moment. Also any changes to the menus/battle mechanics are usually holdovers from the new main games of that gen, maybe their aesthetic slightly changed to match how it was in the original games the remakes are based on.
Also, let's remember in BDSP's case they stuck so close to the original games is because they were having a third party make it. But not a major third party, no, they got a smaller studio (that they were already working with, ILCA also helped making HOME) and pretty much just gave them the original DP blueprints and said "make these but in 3D, don't go off design without permission" and only really allowing for little changes even then. The decisions with BDSP wasn't done based on perceived fan reaction but rather they just wanted to get remakes of DP out there so that they can say it has been done and focus on their true interest: Legends: Arceus.
Game Freak has always had this weird mentality since Gen 3 where they don't really want to keep any individual feature consistently in every game, and they feel like they want to make each game different by consistently reinventing the wheel in terms of what features the games have and replacing what was in the previous generation with something new because they decide that each feature should be part of a singular generation's individuality compared to the rest, and they are always consistently trying to experiment with new ideas, not thinking about whether the fanbase will like them or not, but just because they find said ideas interesting. In an ideal world even the likes of Gen 8 right now would have the Battle Frontier and Mega Evolutions because those are two of the most popular and well-received features: and even in those two cases, I don't think Game Freak made them so much because they thought fans would like them, but because at the time they existed they thought it would be a fun little idea, and the Frontier and Megas just ended up being lightning in a bottle and being big hits with the fans.
I suspect they decided to never include the Frontier again after Gen 4 partially because they decided the Battle Frontier is Gen 4's "thing" that makes it unique from other generations, and that if other gens were to have it it would ruin the individuality that defined Platinum and HGSS. The same applies to Sinnoh's Contests and HGSS's Pokeathlon. Which frankly is a headass mentality but the point remains. Same with Gen 5 and shit like the PWT, Gems, and the mini Unova only dex in BW1 which never showed up again after that gen. Or Gen 6 having Mega Evolution, which was such a cool feature, but instead of keeping it around, it was shoved to the wayside in Gen 7 and flat out removed in Gen 8. Then Gen 7 had Z-Moves and the Mantine Surfing stuff in USUM, both of which were cut from Gen 8. Then with Gen 8 they decided their little "experiment" for this time around was Dynamax and the Wild Area, the latter carrying over to BDSP in the form of the Hideaways and basically being the entire game in Legends: Arceus.
Game Freak seems to be a mix of arrogant and overambitious when it comes to creating features for their games and they don't really think about whether a feature will be good or not, which results in them rotating features out each generation whether fans like them or not, and every feature they have experimented with fundamentally ends up hit or miss, and they just experiment every time with new ideas that they don't stick with in the long term. Sometimes, the new ideas are a success like Mega Evolutions, the Battle Frontier, the Pokemon World Tournament, and even stuff like the Wild Area to an extent. Sometimes, the new ideas are a miss, like Z-Moves and especially Dynamax. They just rotate features and game design ideas in the games in and out, and these features and ideas/concepts fundamentally end up hit or miss with the fanbase. And unfortunately, these features while wonderful and cool at times and other times not, ultimately mask the fact that the games have largely remained similar and are fundamentally the same game as Pokemon Red and Green thus far, with the features being the big thing that differentiates each game, yet the games are very, very slow to truly evolve (this series is notoriously slow in terms of generational improvement). At least, that's how it seems to be, unfortunately.
I suspect they decided to never include the Frontier again after Gen 4 partially because they decided the Battle Frontier is Gen 4's "thing" that makes it unique from other generations, and that if other gens were to have it it would ruin the individuality that defined Platinum and HGSS. The same applies to Sinnoh's Contests and HGSS's Pokeathlon. Which frankly is a headass mentality but the point remains. Same with Gen 5 and shit like the PWT, Gems, and the mini Unova only dex in BW1 which never showed up again after that gen. Or Gen 6 having Mega Evolution, which was such a cool feature, but instead of keeping it around, it was shoved to the wayside in Gen 7 and flat out removed in Gen 8. Then Gen 7 had Z-Moves and the Mantine Surfing stuff in USUM, both of which were cut from Gen 8. Then with Gen 8 they decided their little "experiment" for this time around was Dynamax and the Wild Area, the latter carrying over to BDSP in the form of the Hideaways and basically being the entire game in Legends: Arceus.
Game Freak seems to be a mix of arrogant and overambitious when it comes to creating features for their games and they don't really think about whether a feature will be good or not, which results in them rotating features out each generation whether fans like them or not, and every feature they have experimented with fundamentally ends up hit or miss, and they just experiment every time with new ideas that they don't stick with in the long term. Sometimes, the new ideas are a success like Mega Evolutions, the Battle Frontier, the Pokemon World Tournament, and even stuff like the Wild Area to an extent. Sometimes, the new ideas are a miss, like Z-Moves and especially Dynamax. They just rotate features and game design ideas in the games in and out, and these features and ideas/concepts fundamentally end up hit or miss with the fanbase. And unfortunately, these features while wonderful and cool at times and other times not, ultimately mask the fact that the games have largely remained similar and are fundamentally the same game as Pokemon Red and Green thus far, with the features being the big thing that differentiates each game, yet the games are very, very slow to truly evolve (this series is notoriously slow in terms of generational improvement). At least, that's how it seems to be, unfortunately.
While I agree that Game Freak discards ideas without giving them a chance to be refined way too often, I don't think there's anything wrong with one-off gimmicks. Like, you list Mantine Surfing as one of the features cut from Gen 8, but how would that even work? Mantine Surfing likely arose when someone on the team said "hey, this region is an archipelago, wouldn't it be cool if there was a minigame where you travel between them?" which also probably led to the minigame where you travel between dimensions (also on the back of a Pokemon). How would that work in Galar? Like sure, they could put some random guy on a beach who says "hey wanna rent a Rotom Surfboard for a while?" but if they kept doing that generation after generation it would feel hella forced.
Case in point, Rotom. The Rotom Pokedex was a fun novelty. Galarians shoving Rotoms into anything they can think of not only makes it less novel, but none of the Rotoms have any personality, unlike the Rotom dex who was a character in its own right, so they're also exceedingly boring and don't add anything to the game besides "being Rotoms just like last time".
Gamefreak absolutely does not consider the Frontier to be gen 4's "thing", I can basically guarantee this.
It was introduced in gen 3 and was like the most iconic lasting thing about Emerald and is why they went out of their way to reference it on the battle resort in many ways.
Secondly if they really truly thought it was the big gen 4 thing they probably would have bent over backwards to try & have it in some fashion in BDSP. Or at least reference. Didn't even get lipservice on that front, like oh ho ho the battle hall isnt here but there's a Hall Mode of the tower.
They just don't see it worth the effort in doing (hell gen 4's was pared back compared to gen 3 so was probably on their mind then too), and will probably never come back.
It was introduced in gen 3 and was like the most iconic lasting thing about Emerald and is why they went out of their way to reference it on the battle resort in many ways.
Secondly if they really truly thought it was the big gen 4 thing they probably would have bent over backwards to try & have it in some fashion in BDSP. Or at least reference. Didn't even get lipservice on that front, like oh ho ho the battle hall isnt here but there's a Hall Mode of the tower.
They just don't see it worth the effort in doing (hell gen 4's was pared back compared to gen 3 so was probably on their mind then too), and will probably never come back.
This. If they complained about how stale the franchise is, then why they ended up flanderize stuff even more often than even GF could do?
I saw too many of the problems too often for me to ignore, which include:
- Exclusively using Gen 1 Pokémon, which may be understandable if it take place in Kanto, but still an aged aspect. It’s especially worse if it take place in “real life”. The same goes for excessive Gen 1 pandering in general, as well as excessive pandering to one other Generation.
- Encouraging the fake difficulty (excessive level gap between the player and the NPCs which means excessive grinding, for exemple) or excessive tediousness in general.
- Ideas that could completely throw off balance, like permanent Mega Evolution, woefully unbalanced Fakémon, Moves or Abilities, adding a new Type without rebalancing the type chart firsthand, giving something powerful and available before postgame to an already powerful Pokémon, etc. Likewise, we see little to no rebalance to pre-existing Pokémon in general to at least lightly tighten the power gap.
- Fakémon with massive style-over-substance ratio. “Good design” can only carry you so far before the concept falls flat or become obnoxiously painful to deal with if you aren’t careful. Don’t get me started with single-stage Pokémon with weak stats!
- Signature bloating. You know what I mean about this one.
- Sometimes, a Fakédex with or without official Pokémon involved relies too much of common archetypes like Pika-Clones, Normal-type early route, Dragon-type Pseudo-Legendary, etc.
- Flanderize an entire species, which is especially bad as far as some later Gen Pokémon are concerned.
Ooooh that's a pet peeve of mine.
The (perhaps harsh) reality is, it's impossible to have a truly hard Pokémon game. The moment you know your opponent's party is the moment they can be trivialized in some way or form. With so many species, there's no team composition without a hard counter (just ask the metagame). So what do they do instead? Artificially bloat playtime by adding a large gap between your current point and the point where the difficulty is reasonable.
If you can't make the game hard, don't try.
Hey, I'm glad to see finally someone understands this. Slight faith in humanity restored.
Turn based RPGs can't be made hard. You can make them *grindy* sure, but not hard. Grind != difficulty, making games become grindy is just making them boring.
Due to the fact there's no "time pressure", you are always allowed to take your time to think your strategies both before and after the battles, or even just bruteforce the enemy by sheer overleveling if that's possible.
Even the so fabled boosted E4 and gym leaders of BDSP are nothing you can't bruteforce. Sure you can die once out of surprise from the items on some of their pokes, but round 2 will usually just go smooth as long as you have basic knowledge of type matchups.
I know that there's definitely fan hacks/games that do The Grind terribly but honestly I dont need that.
I just need to not be 5-15 levels over. 2-3 levels under or even literally on pace (I think the ideal would be go into a bosses' first pokemon on-level, then their back line is a little above that by 2-3 levels) is totally fine, the math usually works out such that okay this is now a 2KO or perhaps even a 3KO and I am in slightly more danger. Gotta put a smidge of counterplay there. Get me that enrichment.
It's not about ah yes i'm 20 levels under gotta GRIND boys time to GRIND love the GRIND, it's about ah this is a delightful hike up a hill. Since as said constantly, the games are very hard to make actually hard. Because of the way the games are set up, the only way to really get true difficulty is to either take away a bunch of optoins and level the playing field again*, upend the design ethos and give bosses flagrant advantages**, or drastically increase level. But if you level it too much it just goes to a giant wall where its like welp guess i'm rock climbing now and all i have are tennis shoes
I just need a level curve that makes sense, and for exp share to be an option you can toggle. That's all I want....
the DP level curve is some fucking nonsense, it's like the exact opposite of the Johto problem. The EXP Share in BDSP honestly highlights it more and stunningly made me respect SWSH more just because there i was ~only~ 5 levels over relatively consistently through the game instead of 5 then 10 then 15 then 10 then back to 15 then i'm 3 levels under for the end then im over it again. utter nonsense!
And hell even if you had exp share be an option it'd still be nonsense because it was nonsense originally which is why Platinum gave it a big overhaul.
Incidentally my favorite level curve is BW1 & 2. You're just about always on par, give or take one level depending on the exact part of the game you're at, until N who is a levle jump but not a HUGE level jump so it doesnt feel like a wall. Ghetsis is a bit more of a wall, though still not too bad. & BW2 ironed out more of those kinks with extended content and level tweaks here & there. XY's level curve has a sharp spike in the middle I'm not fond of (& more find that the trainers could've used more pokemon to begin with tbh) and Alola has I think 2 of them, which is why I rank gen 5 higher though I otherwise have them as a tie for 2.
*Battle Facilities, basically, except the usual hard thing with Facilities is that you're carrying a streak and you can't stop it with the team you've chosen.. So if you just have to worry about one (1) battle and not the climb to get back to it, it's not that big a deal.
**They've experimented with this. Totems get stat boost, have relatively optimized movesets, and can force a 2V1 with complimentary partners and I think are an interesting idea that they could try applying to bosses in the future (Beast Lusamine kind of does, I suppose?). But those are very specialized cases and still operate within the general rule of the game being "What you face, is something that you yourself could have". Which here, at the end, in a footnote, I should say is an interesting design space and fine for the series. I just want a little resistance, you know?
I just need to not be 5-15 levels over. 2-3 levels under or even literally on pace (I think the ideal would be go into a bosses' first pokemon on-level, then their back line is a little above that by 2-3 levels) is totally fine, the math usually works out such that okay this is now a 2KO or perhaps even a 3KO and I am in slightly more danger. Gotta put a smidge of counterplay there. Get me that enrichment.
It's not about ah yes i'm 20 levels under gotta GRIND boys time to GRIND love the GRIND, it's about ah this is a delightful hike up a hill. Since as said constantly, the games are very hard to make actually hard. Because of the way the games are set up, the only way to really get true difficulty is to either take away a bunch of optoins and level the playing field again*, upend the design ethos and give bosses flagrant advantages**, or drastically increase level. But if you level it too much it just goes to a giant wall where its like welp guess i'm rock climbing now and all i have are tennis shoes
I just need a level curve that makes sense, and for exp share to be an option you can toggle. That's all I want....
the DP level curve is some fucking nonsense, it's like the exact opposite of the Johto problem. The EXP Share in BDSP honestly highlights it more and stunningly made me respect SWSH more just because there i was ~only~ 5 levels over relatively consistently through the game instead of 5 then 10 then 15 then 10 then back to 15 then i'm 3 levels under for the end then im over it again. utter nonsense!
And hell even if you had exp share be an option it'd still be nonsense because it was nonsense originally which is why Platinum gave it a big overhaul.
Incidentally my favorite level curve is BW1 & 2. You're just about always on par, give or take one level depending on the exact part of the game you're at, until N who is a levle jump but not a HUGE level jump so it doesnt feel like a wall. Ghetsis is a bit more of a wall, though still not too bad. & BW2 ironed out more of those kinks with extended content and level tweaks here & there. XY's level curve has a sharp spike in the middle I'm not fond of (& more find that the trainers could've used more pokemon to begin with tbh) and Alola has I think 2 of them, which is why I rank gen 5 higher though I otherwise have them as a tie for 2.
*Battle Facilities, basically, except the usual hard thing with Facilities is that you're carrying a streak and you can't stop it with the team you've chosen.. So if you just have to worry about one (1) battle and not the climb to get back to it, it's not that big a deal.
**They've experimented with this. Totems get stat boost, have relatively optimized movesets, and can force a 2V1 with complimentary partners and I think are an interesting idea that they could try applying to bosses in the future (Beast Lusamine kind of does, I suppose?). But those are very specialized cases and still operate within the general rule of the game being "What you face, is something that you yourself could have". Which here, at the end, in a footnote, I should say is an interesting design space and fine for the series. I just want a little resistance, you know?
This can be seen in that Temtem game
So many designs barely work with the habitat they're in. Nothing really was planned out, and difficulty curve is a mess
Which brings another issue. If you have a fakemon dex, please have foresight on where they live. Johto absolutely didn't (where would a Slugma even live? Burned tower wasn't smoldering in recent day, and Dragon cave has no lava), which is probably why some mons stupidly could only be found in Kanto.
I mean look at the anime intro for movies, or Mystery Dungeon 1 friend areas. Multiple species of mons within the right habitat can look like a world you want to live in
And please, stop making early game Bug and Flying types that become worthless later, or rare ice types that are bulky and just as worthless. That type trope is old
Level curves in Pokémon will never be perfect no matter the situation, and here's why. It's because the proportional difference between Pokémon's stats at each level gets lower as the levels progress. The power gap between Level 20 and Level 25, for example, is much more significant than the gap between Level 70 and Level 75. Pokémon's level system is entirely dependent on a specific number of any given stat being added to a Pokémon when it levels up, and this is in turn is because of their base stats. For a level curve to be perfectly optimized in any RPG game, a different approach must be taken where a specific proportion of any given stat is granted upon leveling up as opposed to a specific number.
For example, a pattern a Pokémon's Attack stat might progress per level: 23, 25, 26, 28, 30, 32, 33, etc.
But if a proportion is added (let's say 10% rounded per level for this example) instead of a fixed number (1 to 2 points per level), we see our pattern change dramatically: 23, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 41, etc.
When I say "level curve" I really just mean that I'd like to be about level 50 going into a fight against someone who is also about level 50 so that we're approximately roughly on the same playing field (though obviously a level 50 meditite wont be doing much so there's a lot of other variables), and that I would like to go from that fight to another level 50 or perhaps a level 52, and not leap from level 45 to 66. The actual math behind the levels doesnt bug me as much other than high level "alright eye balling that i can see that if i were this level or range instead that hit would be (1hko/2ko/3ko)"
With this definition of yours, I’d have to agree with you that the Gen 5 Unova saga has some of the best level curves in the entire main series. The evolution levels of Pokémon in the region are still kinda whack, but the scaling between Gym Leaders for instance is close to perfect. The only thing I might consider changing if I could would be leveling up Burgh’s gym teams (the player had an entire forest to train in as well as possibly a battle company building and a future Route, why is Burgh’s Leavanny only three levels higher than Lenora’s Watchog?) and Ghetsis’s BW2 team who stupidly comes in at the same levels as Colress and is ONE, that’s right, ONE level above the 8th gym leader Marlon’s team. Given there’s an entire Team Plasma hideout to clean out between those battles, that is absolutely unacceptable.
An example I found to be particularly bad, even if it makes sense from a lorewise perspective (a fact I couldn't care less about), was in Sword and Shield. Namely, the very endgame.
When you take on the Champions Cup finals, your opponent is Raihan and his Level 55 ace.
Then, you have to fight Rose, and his ace is at Level 57, with nothing in-between. Unusual, but not too much.
Then, you have to fight Eternatus, who is at Level 60. It's the climax boss, at a raid battle. The level spike is to be expected.
Now, you'd expect this to be like in USUM, where while Ultra Necrozma is overleveled, then the game drops back to normal. Except the entirety of Leon's team is at a higher level than Eternatus, and up to 5 levels higher, despite this being the battle that comes immediately after it.
No wonder Leon was undefeated, the guy was overleveled like crazy!
When you take on the Champions Cup finals, your opponent is Raihan and his Level 55 ace.
Then, you have to fight Rose, and his ace is at Level 57, with nothing in-between. Unusual, but not too much.
Then, you have to fight Eternatus, who is at Level 60. It's the climax boss, at a raid battle. The level spike is to be expected.
Now, you'd expect this to be like in USUM, where while Ultra Necrozma is overleveled, then the game drops back to normal. Except the entirety of Leon's team is at a higher level than Eternatus, and up to 5 levels higher, despite this being the battle that comes immediately after it.
No wonder Leon was undefeated, the guy was overleveled like crazy!
Kind of like how several players tend to overlevel their Pokémon like crazy in order to ensure victory?
That and Leon’s Charizard as his ace really reflect the player character in the form of an important NPC.
I feel like they've done a good job with the early Route flying types since Gen 4. Staraptor is a monster, you see it often on Sinnoh teams. Unfezant doesn't exist. Talonflame was pretty good in my playthrough of X but that game is also easy as fuck. Toucannon I didn't use but it seems decent enough. Corviknight is...Corviknight. I feel like with most of these you can get real mileage out of them throughout the game, I know I did for Staraptor (BDSP), Talonflame, and Corviknight.
The bugs aren't as lucky. I really can't name any that could be useful lategame. Maybe Vivillon if you get one with Compound eyes but I don't know how that works in Gen 6 or if it's a hidden ability or not.
I hate bulky Ice types. Look at all of the Ice types that have been doing good recently. Weavile, Arctozolt, and Kyurem. What makes them good? They're fast (Arctozolt needs Hail to be fast but still). Ice is an amazing Offensive type, and it shows whenever they actually have offensive stats. And Kyurem, which is actually somewhat bulky, has the Dragon typing to aid it and give it actual resistances. Plus it isn't super slow either.
Abomasnow (especially it's Mega) is my least favorite example of a Bulky ice type. You can't give them a defensive spread and then give them one of the worst defensive typings possible. Basically, more Weaviles, less Abomasnows.
You can get real mileage out of Unfezant as well (particularly in BW2). It's just not the "best" option for its role.