Does anybody notice that clef able could be an excellent pokemon if he gets the almost guaranteed fairy type as it has pretty decent bulk in 90 73 90 reliable recovery and magic guard making him immune to toxic and burn damage. Not only that but it has a fantastic typing in normal fairy this gen and a superb move pool with moves such as calm mind fire blast ice beam hyper voice dual screens t-wave and others I think it could overall become a solid check to dragons and fragile sweepers in the current metagame
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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
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I do feel like Scizor will still be quite popular and powerful. I'm pretty sure it has one of if not the best Bullet Punches in the game. It could be our most dominant Fairy check. Plus it'll be a check to the very powerful MedaDactyl
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 372-438 (123.17 - 145.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That being said, Scizor isn't a good switch in...
0- SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 276-328 (80.46 - 95.62%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk (custom) Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 186-219 (54.22 - 63.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
EDIT:
Just saw this in the data collection thread:
Mega Lucario
HP: 70
Att: 145
Def: 70
SpA: 140
SpD: 70
Spe: 115
BST: 610
That is insane. Running some quick stats:
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 312-368 (90.96 - 107.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 824-972 (117.04 - 138.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Tentacruel: 162-191 (44.62 - 52.61%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 163-192 (50.46 - 59.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock then Bullet Punch does enough to KO if it had switched in.
For comparison: Mega VS Normal
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 312-368 (90.96 - 107.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 250-294 (72.88 - 85.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 372-438 (123.17 - 145.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That being said, Scizor isn't a good switch in...
0- SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 276-328 (80.46 - 95.62%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk (custom) Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 186-219 (54.22 - 63.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
EDIT:
Just saw this in the data collection thread:
Mega Lucario
HP: 70
Att: 145
Def: 70
SpA: 140
SpD: 70
Spe: 115
BST: 610
That is insane. Running some quick stats:
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 312-368 (90.96 - 107.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 824-972 (117.04 - 138.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Tentacruel: 162-191 (44.62 - 52.61%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 163-192 (50.46 - 59.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock then Bullet Punch does enough to KO if it had switched in.
For comparison: Mega VS Normal
252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 312-368 (90.96 - 107.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 250-294 (72.88 - 85.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
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if aerodactyl gets head smash and brave bird, i'm fairly certain there would be no use for mega aerodactyl then, he gets rock head as an ability, and i'm fairly certain life orb aero deals more damage than mega aero does, the difference in speed would be the only reason to use the mega form over regular aero and in this case, it doesn't seem worth it
nope, 309*1.3 = 401 (unless you use adamant, but then he'd be slow)
Megaero has 405
And it's possible that the speed matters... there are likely now more 130 base speed Pokemon, and we all know how stupid speed ties are...
Still, no recoil is almost all the time worth more.
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 196-232 (55.36 - 65.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock --- Normal Aero
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-125 (29.66 - 35.31%) -- 37.43% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- 34.72% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock --- Mega without factoring in Tough Claws
Without a Choice Band Mega does more
your 2nd one must be wrong, because it can't deal more than the mega. life orb gives *1.3. see my previous post.
oh i forgot about tough claws again, head smash(?) and brave bird get boosted... meaero would die fast but damn would it be stong... so probably still better than normal aero :P (although, who says you can't use both? change to megaero if in need of more power, otherwise just spam recoil-less really strong STAB moves...)
Did some others to check.
Normal Aero
252+ Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 114-136 (32.2 - 38.41%) -- 99.85% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 172-203 (48.58 - 57.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 235-277 (66.38 - 78.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mega
252+ Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- 34.72% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock without Tough Claws (not sure how to fake factor them in)
Now factoring in Speed for normal:
Adamant 252 EVs = 359
Jolly 252 EVs = 394
Mega Speed:
Adamant 252 EVs = 399
Jolly 252 EVs = 438
Mega will always be faster than Normal. But Aero hits harder assuming it gets Head Smash. If not:
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 132-156 (37.28 - 44.06%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock -- Normal
252+ Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- 34.72% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock -- Not factoring in Tough Claws
but there is no reason to use regular over mega, except if using Choice Band, and then you can't use Mega Aero as you need the mega stone to evolve to mega aero
Even then the extra speed to be faster than Base 130s and Scarfers below Base 70 Speed might be worth more than the power of Choice Band.
right, i'm just saying that the only role regular Aero plays is choice band, so i just didnt understand the whole why no use both thing. I was unsure if Luigi player meant a different set or using band and meg aero the the same time.
Just in case anyone is wondering,
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slyveon: 307-361 (77.91 - 91.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 216-256 (82.44 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The battle field is equal in a sense. I think Gengar will be a huge threat but Sylveon can at least tank 1 hit, before Stealth Rocks, and hit back. This is a worst comes to worst scenario.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slyveon: 307-361 (77.91 - 91.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 216-256 (82.44 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The battle field is equal in a sense. I think Gengar will be a huge threat but Sylveon can at least tank 1 hit, before Stealth Rocks, and hit back. This is a worst comes to worst scenario.
Jaiho
bandy legged troll
I guess, until Gengar Sub-Disables Sylveon's ass. That is how Gengar played in 5th gen, and can afford to not use focus blast at times with the ghost buff.
No way that Gengar will run SubDisable with Shadow Ball + Sludge Bomb. Terrakion in sand and Terrakion would fuck it up big time then. It will either be Sub / Protect + 3 attacks or all-out attacking sets that will use Sludge Bomb.
EDIT: Oh you are right SmashBrosBrawl, i totally forgot that Terrakion can't do shit to Gengar so i guess it's not a problem, leaving only Tyranitar. So yeah, maybe SubDisable sets with Shadow Ball + Sludge Bomb will be viable after all.
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How does terrakion beat sub disable gengar...
I don't think Gengar really wants to switch in to Sylveon anyway, in case of that shadow ball. I mean:
0 SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 158-188 (60.3 - 71.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and not being able to OHKO back isn't a good idea. You'll find Gengar would come in if Sylveon used a normal or ground attack or when something has fainted. But with 130 Sp. Def, hitting it Physically is the way to go
0 SpA (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 158-188 (60.3 - 71.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and not being able to OHKO back isn't a good idea. You'll find Gengar would come in if Sylveon used a normal or ground attack or when something has fainted. But with 130 Sp. Def, hitting it Physically is the way to go
If gengar does end up getting a supposed ghost/psychic type when it mega evolves it will be screwed by dark and ghost types. I pray it doesn't get that type combo.
Nothing saying you have to Mega Evolve it. Regular Gengar will still be OU, especially with the Ghost buffs.
And Poison being super effect on Fairys
EDIT:
Not sure if anyone has noticed or not but I'm pretty sure Mawile has statistically one of if not the best defensive typing in the game? 2 weaknesses, 2 immunities and 9 resistances (1 at 1/4). MegaMawile will be tough to take down if it gets good defensive stats
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And if it becomes Dark/Psychic and LOOSE Levitate I 100% will pick normal Gengar anyway unless he gets RIDICULOUS buff in SpA and/or Speed. Also being x4 Pursuit weak means that it doesn't matter if you stay in or not, because you get annihilated by it anyway. Or you may even use more reliable Gengar checks than Ttar (Focus Blast hurts like hell) or Scizor (watch out on random HP Fire) like for example Snorlax.
As someone mentioned before - 50 HP stat difference is HUGE. It's like comparing Celebi Physical Bulk vs Groudon Bulk. You can't compare it, it's 50 points exactly. And between Cloyster and Avalugg difference is EXACTLY this huge. For example Cloyster 100% goes in two hits from Haxorus Adamant Outrage with SR up and also 100% in both hits from Kyurem-B even without SR. Mamoswine Life Orb Adamant Earthquake also takes you in two hits with SR up. And when you want to compare to Steelix - much higher base attack (110 is good) and MUCH better STAB in Ice to handle most physical attackers means that Avalugg is better than them when it goes to tanking physical hits. Problem is if he gets decent movepool at least or not. Simple damage calcs prove it. For Cloyster they look MUCH worse, I may post them if needed.
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Millky: how can 405 attack be weaker than 401 attack?
Am i missing something? I've checked again but the life orb article clearly says it's a *1.3 boost and 309*1.3 = 401 (rounded down)
Gcschris:
We were talking about the hypotethical head smash/brave bird and since normal aero has rock head that could be prefered since megaero would die pretty fast from all the recoil.
Am i missing something? I've checked again but the life orb article clearly says it's a *1.3 boost and 309*1.3 = 401 (rounded down)
Gcschris:
We were talking about the hypotethical head smash/brave bird and since normal aero has rock head that could be prefered since megaero would die pretty fast from all the recoil.
Are you factoring in Tough Claws? All my calcs do not factor it in
No, we dont even know the exact boost.
135 base adamant is 405 attack
105 base neutral is 309
Megaero should do more than not attack+ normal life orb aero...
I'm using Adamant on both of them. For Jolly on Normal Aero vs Adamant Mega
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-125 (29.66 - 35.31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Yeah my thoughts on Gengar are that is the Mega form is indeed Ghost/Psychic, regular gengar will be used more, and i do believe that sub/diable will be viable, and sub/3 attacks will be more viable than it was this gen (not saying it wasn't). Sub disable is just great utility though and can be run even with dual STAB
Unless MegaGengar gets good defences it won't be doing much switching. But I agree that sub+shadow ball+sludge bomb+coverage will be the main set. Deadly with wish support
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