• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Millky95 said:
I'm using Adamant on both of them. For Jolly on Normal Aero vs Adamant Mega
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-125 (29.66 - 35.31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 105-124 (29.66 - 35.02%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Click to expand...
but normal Aero wouldn't run adamant... maybe the occational one does, but usually they don't, because you want to use that speed and outspeed Starmie, Alakazam, etc.

and is the 2nd one Mega Aero or normal? you didnt write mega but I'm assuming it since you used a +att nature and no item.

anyways here are my calcs, though it seems that they might be one point too high... not that it matters for the comparison:

[tested on max Def+ Forretress (416 defense)]
Mega Aerodactyl, +Atk nature (gets 405): 107-126 damage
Aerodactyl, neutral Atk nature @ Life Orb (401): 106-125 damage
 
Kejmur said:
And if it becomes Dark/Psychic and LOOSE Levitate I 100% will pick normal Gengar anyway unless he gets RIDICULOUS buff in SpA and/or Speed. Also being x4 Pursuit weak means that it doesn't matter if you stay in or not, because you get annihilated by it anyway. Or you may even use more reliable Gengar checks than Ttar (Focus Blast hurts like hell) or Scizor (watch out on random HP Fire) like for example Snorlax.



As someone mentioned before - 50 HP stat difference is HUGE. It's like comparing Celebi Physical Bulk vs Groudon Bulk. You can't compare it, it's 50 points exactly. And between Cloyster and Avalugg difference is EXACTLY this huge. For example Cloyster 100% goes in two hits from Haxorus Adamant Outrage with SR up and also 100% in both hits from Kyurem-B even without SR. Mamoswine Life Orb Adamant Earthquake also takes you in two hits with SR up. And when you want to compare to Steelix - much higher base attack (110 is good) and MUCH better STAB in Ice to handle most physical attackers means that Avalugg is better than them when it goes to tanking physical hits. Problem is if he gets decent movepool at least or not. Simple damage calcs prove it. For Cloyster they look MUCH worse, I may post them if needed.
Click to expand...

The problem is Avalugg has garbage special stats a stab super effective special move will send it 6 ft. under.
 
So how many of you are hoping tyrantrum gets dragon dance? If he does he should run a set like this. 252 attack 252 speed Jolly nature with the moveset of Dragon Dance, Stone Edge/Head Smash, Outrage, and Earthquake/Iron Tail. With Iron tail it can cover other rock types while covering fairy types.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
The problem is Avalugg has garbage special stats a stab super effective special move will send it 6 ft. under.
Click to expand...

For example it survives 100% Neutral 0 SpA Fire Blast from YacheChomp, SE attack with 120 base power, so it can survive random neutral/SE special hit as long as it's not too strong (base 100 HP helps here a bit). And he looks to be just physical wall, so it's not like he'll have to take ANY strong special hits (all examples I mentioned are mostly pure physical attackers with little exception of Substitute Kyurem-B, which it STILL walls unless it has HP Fire which you 100% survive if you stay in and take it). Uninvested Hippowdon also isn't exactly bulky on special side, you may say the same about Tangrowth, Slowbro, etc. and no one will say that they suck at walling because they can't handle strong special hits. It's not their job and Avalugg's as well. And in many cases you can tell which Pokemon use ONLY physical attack, which can go mix and which are special based attackers, so this is something possible to predict and not send Avalugg into something he can't handle. Only really tricky so far example here is Salamence (and Kyurem-B kind off), as it may go mixed, but I wouldn't send Avalugg first against Salamence before knowing his set.
 
Dovahhkiin64 said:
So how many of you are hoping tyrantrum gets dragon dance? If he does he should run a set like this. 252 attack 252 speed Jolly nature with the moveset of Dragon Dance, Stone Edge/Head Smash, Outrage, and Earthquake/Iron Tail. With Iron tail it can cover other rock types while covering fairy types.
Click to expand...
Elemental fangs and Crunch are also viable options, as they're boosted by Strong Jaw ability :P
 
Well, Iron Tail sucks, its accuracy is the same of Focus Blast. Iron Head is a better option, use that. Maybe a new biting steel move? Lol.
 
Talpr0ne said:
Well, Iron Tail sucks, its accuracy is the same of Focus Blast. Iron Head is a better option, use that. Maybe a new biting steel move? Lol.
Click to expand...
not the same (75%), but still unreliable.

i want it to get a new good biting move...

i also hope now that weather abilities likely arent permanent anymore excadrill can return to the metagame where it belongs....
 
This was kind of back a bit on the last page, but I wanted to post something on it anyway...

Gengar needs Focus Blast. If it doesn't have it, then the mere presence of Tyranitar on the opposing team almost makes it complete dead-weight on your team; Ttar resists both Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, has great Sp. Def in Sand, and usually carries two attacks that can hit Gengar for Sub-Disable. Additionally, even though Steel types no longer resist you, many of them can still take 1 neutral Shadow Ball, and KO in return. Magnezone, for example, can do this. Sometimes you'll need the extra damage output of Focus Blast because, come the end of the day, Shadow Ball is still only 80 Base Power, and it's not always going to hit neutral targets quite hard enough.

Of course, this gives Gengar 4 Moveslot Syndrome. If we take the Sub-Disable set, Gengar wants to run:
Substitute
Disable
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Sludge Bomb

You're going to have to drop something that you'd rather keep no matter what you do. It'll be interesting to see just how good Poison becomes offensively, and whether it can be justified on Gengar's sets.
 
FrostFire said:
This was kind of back a bit on the last page, but I wanted to post something on it anyway...

Gengar needs Focus Blast. If it doesn't have it, then the mere presence of Tyranitar on the opposing team almost makes it complete dead-weight on your team; Ttar resists both Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, has great Sp. Def in Sand, and usually carries two attacks that can hit Gengar for Sub-Disable. Additionally, even though Steel types no longer resist you, many of them can still take 1 neutral Shadow Ball, and KO in return. Magnezone, for example, can do this. Sometimes you'll need the extra damage output of Focus Blast because, come the end of the day, Shadow Ball is still only 80 Base Power, and it's not always going to hit neutral targets quite hard enough.

Of course, this gives Gengar 4 Moveslot Syndrome. If we take the Sub-Disable set, Gengar wants to run:
Substitute
Disable
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Sludge Bomb

You're going to have to drop something that you'd rather keep no matter what you do. It'll be interesting to see just how good Poison becomes offensively, and whether it can be justified on Gengar's sets.
Click to expand...
I feel like it would depend on how else your team handles Fairys on the special side. If you can, you just drop sludge bomb. If not then you'll find Shadow Ball being dropped. To me, Sub+3 attacks seems better.
 
Wow, Shadow tag is crazy

It's not that Megengar might be used, it's that it might go to Ubers :O The first shadow-tagger with immunities. Choice locked Fighting and normal attacks will disappear. Rapid spinners now need a way to beat it. This is amazing
 
Hold up first I want a bit of a clarification of Mega-evolution: Isn't it that your Pokemon only mega-evolves after you send it out and make a move right? Also after it mega-evolves does it stay evolved even if you switch it out?

Depending on how exactly it mega-evolves might make this thing mute, as trapping would be kind of meh because your opponent can switch before they evolve and have the ability.
 
I hope it stays evolved after you switch...
I also just realized it gets perish song. Now that is scary. I think you can't switch out as the shadow tag 'mon switches, so it can use perish song on resisted moves and the such, and switch out when it falls to 1, KOing the opponent's pokemon. I wish it got encore, encore+Psych up would be godly
Edit: Snatch could be interesting, as well as pain split, destiny bond also
Edit2: Disable yes yes yes. Switch in on choiced move, if you can outspeed, they struggle to death. Band and Specs will become obsolete if you can't outspeed it.
 
Wow Mega Gengar is insane. Do we know if Mega Evolving takes priority over switching? Could the opponent switch out before you Mega Evolve and trap with Shadow Tag?
 
I really hope some Mega Stones can simply be banned for OU. Isn't that how Soul Dew works? I'm not saying Gengar will definitely be uber-level, but just in case I hope it can still be used in OU in its normal form.

With how powerful Xerneas seems to be, a Poison juggernaut like Mega Gengar might be just what uber needs. Even if it doesn't become Uber it will definitely be used there imo.
 
Yuttt said:
I hope it stays evolved after you switch...
Click to expand...

A bit of a tangent but why exactly? In practice this would only be a problem switching in a Pokemon as Mega-evolutions have higher defenses, outside of that I can't think of much of a reason to hope for this unless you want to trap things with Mega-Gengar for the rest of the battle?
 
Pan. said:

weather stops after 5 turns incoming - I can be your hero baby ;)

ladies hold your orgasms ;)
Click to expand...

Didn't look like this was discussed here. Anyway, with temporary weather I feel that sand and rain may not be nearly as OP as it was before. Swift Swim teams may not be as monstrous, though that's hard to say. Adding in that the core of Swift Swim teams have new issues to deal with, I can see them returning. Sad about Hail, though. It got hit the worst out of all the weathers. I'm pretty hyped for this gen.
 
If Chandelure was questionably broken with Shadow Tag (I'm positive it WAS broken, but I know some aren't. The DW metagame was fucked up), I see little chance of Mega Gengar not being the most broken thing we've seen in OU. A Pokémon that can trap any other non-Ghost Pokémon and KO with what appears to be a massive Special Attack and Speed boost? That seems pretty broken to me. Add on the fact that this thing can trap and eliminate Fairy types and we may be looking at potential DraGar(TM) teams in a few months.
 
Last edited:
It should be noted that Baton Pass is in the fairy egg group, and its likely that Sylveon will have it, so if they are faster they can escape Shadow Tag with Baton Pass anyway.
 
Princess Bubblegum said:
A bit of a tangent but why exactly? In practice this would only be a problem switching in a Pokemon as Mega-evolutions have higher defenses, outside of that I can't think of much of a reason to hope for this unless you want to trap things with Mega-Gengar for the rest of the battle?
Click to expand...
So you can trap stuff immediately, when you just switch into it, not allowing the pokemon you switched into a chance to escape.
 
Yuttt said:
So you can trap stuff immediately, when you just switch into it, not allowing the pokemon you switched into a chance to escape.
Click to expand...

And you want that? As much as I will employ the strategy if it exists, I can honestly say that I would prefer if it didn't exist as you know... some day someone is going to do it to you as well. I don't know about you, but I hate my Pokemon being trapped a lot more than the enjoyment I get from trapping things.

that might just be me though :P
 
The Jaiho said:
http://images.4chan.org/vp/src/1381352874470.jpg

found this in the leak thread. MegaGengar might be used after all
Click to expand...
I... I....

Okay, so I was assuming that MegaGengar would have worse typing than its normal conunterpart (i know some people siad it would lose levitate, but i wasn't buying it because regular Gengar is touching the ground too.)

Before I even knew about MegaGengar, I, along with many other players knew it would be incredible this gen for various reasons, which have previously been discused.

While Gengar of course hates losing levitate... it's shadowtag, one of, if not the most powerful abilities in the game. With a pokemon with gengar's speed receive Shadow Tag, that's ubers material. Not only that, MegaGengar is confirmed to have higher stats (by a pretty significant margin iirc).

Basically, people were saying Gengar 4 ubers before its mega, then its mega came out, and now this.

Plus like Halcyon said, chandelure was speculated to be broken with Shadow Tag, so Gengar almost definately will be.

In ADDITION,
Halcyon. said:
Add on the fact that this thing can trap and eliminate Fairy types and we may be looking at potential teams DraGar(TM) in a few months.
Click to expand...
omg just the thought of DraGar (nice name lol) is disgusting

Not to mention ghosts aren't affected by Shadow Tag anymore, so it hits the type that is "good" against it Super Effectively.
 
Princess Bubblegum said:
And you want that? As much as I will employ the strategy if it exists, I can honestly say that I would prefer if it didn't exist as you know... some day someone is going to do it to you as well. I don't know about you, but I hate my Pokemon being trapped a lot more than the enjoyment I get from trapping things.

that might just be me though :P
Click to expand...

Yeah XD I was just talking about it from Megengar's point of view, I suppose. It would most likely definitely be broken with the suggested mechanics.

Halcyon. said:
Add on the fact that this thing can trap and eliminate Fairy types and we may be looking at potential teams DraGar(TM) in a few months.
Click to expand...

OH NO
Cool name, btw
 
Last edited:
Thoughts on 5 turn weather: Well, i really don't know. Weather was a huge part of Gen V of course, and rain being considred broken by some players (let's try to not get into this). A lot of me likes the change, but part of me dislike this nerf, at least flavor-wise.

Competitively it obviously means that weather will be less powerful, but I'd also like to stress that survivability of weather-starters is even more crucial. I feel like OU Sun gets hit hardest because ninetales has the biggest survival problems, and the team structure of sun is generally very focused on sun with chlorophyll sweepers. I feel sun relies the most on its weather, as rain can get away with the rain ending as rain is more of a benefit to the team, while sun is hyper-focused around the sun. I'm not at all saying sun is dead, but I feel it got hit hardest. I also think that MegaAbomasnow's ability to come in, start hail, and the mega evolve to start hail again becomes a bit more relevant, but we'll see how hail works out in Gen VI.

*Crosses fingers for strong viability of OU Hail*

I updated the OP with the new MegaGengar info (I'm still cringing) and weather info. I'm loving to see that the thread is back on topic, and an exciting and engaging one at that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top