Big Lord of the Rings Mafia - Game Over! Forces of Sauron Win!

[Da Letter El]

For new players / people lurking who don't know what to say:

Don't be intimidated! Feel free to ask questions about why people are doing what they're doing or saying what they're saying, or say what you think, even if what you think is that you have no idea what to think.

Feel free to PM me or talk to me on IRC with any questions you may have about this game, what you could be doing, or ask me how the weather is here. I'd be more than happy to talk with you

 

[reyscarface]

why the fuck is everyone using the word "scummy" is it the new flavor of the month word or did i miss something

lynch TIK

known tik for 5 years, troll yea but certainly not enough of a mong to fuck up on the role PM like that

 

[Acklow]

UNVOTE
LYNCH BASS

HE DESTROYED MY CUTE AVATAR AND CLEARLY ONLY A MAFIA WOULD DO THIS! NOT EVEN A JOKE! PLEASE LYNCH HIM!

I agree! Screw Walrein (he got the shaft too!!!)

Lynch Bass

 

[Pidge]

I kind of think it's unlikely there's a silence because silences in NOC are super lame, and yeah this isn't quite NOC but it's Close Enough. That said wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was one? tbh if the mafia was gonna silence the Rohirrim the silenced one might as well just suicide for the good of the town.

Pidge makes a good argument about TIK but I don't really know TIK well enough to know how good an argument this is. People are lazy in games (source: I'm lazy) so it's entirely possible TIK didn't bother (maybe he was waiting for DLE to say something, idk). Is it bad play? Yeah. But just because someone did something stupid doesn't mean they're scum.

For example, consider this: If TIK was scum and playing properly, wouldn't he have gone over his fakeclaim with his team beforehand and/or known not to claim he knew the other members of the Rohirrim, especially when he actually didn't? That seems ridiculously careless. It would mean that not only would TIK not know how the Rohirrim worked, but so did every member of his team that he talked to.

Both cases are ridiculously careless. It is possible that he is either:

• a mafia member that thought the Rohirrim were united/semi-united

• a villager that thought the Rohirrim were united/semi-united

The first bullet point is not implausible. Maybe his mafia boss said something like, 'ok TIK and Teammate X, you guys pose as Rohirrim. Teammate Y and Z pose as Soldiers'. The boss, Teammate X, Y, and Z are under the impression that they are pretending to be non-united individual village entities. TIK, however, thinks he is supposed to pretend he is united with Teammate X due to the boss's command and his incorrect understanding of the game. He later talks to Ullar as though he is a united Rohirrim. Keep in mind I am only explaining how both bullet points are possible. The actual things that concern me are still in post #194.

 

[LightWolf]

Anything we have against TIK just seems too neutral. He fucked up but it doesn't really point at either mafia or village. If he is village his mistake was the exact one he explained in this thread, which makes decent sense. On the other hand if he was mafia, the only way I can see it working out is if he read some mafia info horribly wrong and no one on his team tried to regulate what his allies tell Ullar(unless the timing of that claim was really early). I find TIK fucking up more likely than TIK fucking up AND having a mafia leader who failed to put his goons into place.

That being said we might as well end up doing that with that many voting him already, as if it doesn't happen people will keep wasting time on it daily.

 

[JALMONT]

but you have to take into account the shortened night 0 and the fact that the mafia has little time probably to "put their goons in place." i think tik prolly knows enough of what he is doing to not be scared over talking to people - that being said, i personally am feeling more inclined to believe TIK, but i just don't see where else we can go right now. there's technically no real loss to lynching him in the sense that it's not as if the rohirrim as permanently (or even temporarily) disabled. plus, we get more info from the lynch (who was on it etc) than if we just no lynch.

next: it really bothers me that von and agape have been going after ullar so hard, it feels like what they're doing is akin to beating up a user that they know they can get away with - trying to prevent organization efforts through casting doubt on a user who is trying to do exactly what the mafia doesn't want. i can't see them reacting like that if a user such as uncle sam were to do that because they would know sam would fight back hard and that they would look dumb. i just don't want us giving "cred" to them just because "oh hey look they really care about the village by throwing dirt on ullar" etc etc

vote the iron kenyan

 

[vonFiedler]

i can't see them reacting like that if a user such as uncle sam were to do that because they would know sam would fight back hard and that they would look dumb.

You want to fucking bet? You think I'd be afraid of big bad UncleSam if he started a lynch this silly? In Electro Mafia, I just bussed two of my teammates and hid under UncleSam all game as a psuedo-wolf. Don't tell me what I wouldn't do to better players. I am fucking nuts.

We'll see who looks dumb when TIK flips village. When that happens, it's not that I don't want the village to organize, it's just that I'll want someone else to step up for it.

 

[JALMONT]

who looks dumb when TIK flips village? I won't? ullar won't? the people who voted for him maybe ?? who do you suggest is a better lynch right now??

please don't try and make this into "oh LOOK I TOLD YOU SO ULLAR SUX WE MISLYNCHED RAH RAH RAH" when you've barely offered anything else either - you haven't explained at all why the game is now lost and you haven't explained how "revealing the rohirrim" is only scummy when it is convenient for it to be scummy for you

your inherent bias against ullar means that it's difficult for me to see your points and hard for me to see where you are coming from from a town perspective. it's difficult for me to sympathize with that position (and/or the other positions you take) because it seems to me your reaction to ullar is based on prejudice rather than on the actual facts on what has happened

 

[vonFiedler]

who looks dumb when TIK flips village? I won't? ullar won't? the people who voted for him maybe ?? who do you suggest is a better lynch right now??

please don't try and make this into "oh LOOK I TOLD YOU SO ULLAR SUX WE MISLYNCHED RAH RAH RAH" when you've barely offered anything else either - you haven't explained at all why the game is now lost and you haven't explained how "revealing the rohirrim" is only scummy when it is convenient for it to be scummy for you

your inherent bias against ullar means that it's difficult for me to see your points and hard for me to see where you are coming from from a town perspective. it's difficult for me to sympathize with that position (and/or the other positions you take) because it seems to me your reaction to ullar is based on prejudice rather than on the actual facts on what has happened

I don't take bias into mafia. I just get irritable when people act astoundingly stupid. Case in point, Ullar is a valued member of #flamel, the smogon side-community that kind of helped me get a badge. He's a player in one of my upcoming Pathfinder campaigns, where I've made concessions with the rules so that he can have as much fun as he wants to. I don't agree with some of the decisions he has made in this game however. Bias? Get the fuck out of here, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

For instance, thinking revealing the riders isn't scummy. This has been explained in the thread several times, I'm not going to say it again. And no one should have had to in the first place. Get a clue.

I have provided many scummy targets, and it turns out that Ullar agrees with all of them. So much for "not doing anything". Revisionism is the #1 scumtell (hell, I successfully called every member of the mafia out on it in my last NOC game), so I guess that adds you to my list too.

 

[ginganinja]

If someone can quickly sum up the reasons for this entire TIK push that would be swell. All I'm seeing is weak evidence on both sides, so it troubles me greatly that there are a few people pushing this lynch very hard, based on "how well x knows TIK".

 

[TheGottemer]

From what I have seen, he made a vague comment about knowing the rohirrim.

 

[JALMONT]

ah the good old "i disagree with you so ur mafia" play

von, i cannot believe that you play mafia with no biases. it's understandable to take into account past performance/knowledge of a user for being dumb (and i do not have the same experience as you do obviously) but your reasoning as to why you disagree with his reasoning is unclear at best - you think somehow he is in the wrong for attempting to get organized when you admit that people have done that in games that you have hosted with that goal in mind; you may disagree with the idea, but that doesn't make it wrong. you beat around the bush with why you don't want to claim to ullar starting with his role, but now it's become he is "dumb." see i'd like to believe (pls let me learn sensei) but then you go around saying things like:

Christ almighty Ullar, you fucking Blew It. If you're village you fucked us over, and if you're mafia then such an obviously bad bandwagon would only serve to get you lynched in turn. I'd say the later is only less likely because I'd hope you have team mates to prevent something like this.

but you see he didn't blow it?? we are in no ways fucked over, this is probably a hundred times better than a no lynch because of the information gain, but you are going around acting like the game is lost just because ullar did it. how can you honestly tell me you are reading ullar with no bias when literally everything he is doing is "blowing it"?

The only alternative is not using the ability at all. If the Rohirrim vote with the majority, the person they vote for gets lynched anyway. I don't know why you'd want us to not use a tool we have.

u r so scummy so mafia lynch it plsssssss

the only thing particular scummy that you've really pointed out is that ullar agrees with everything you say which i find to be highly implausible, but which is something i chalk done to an ullar thing, where he takes that half step of being himself and saying when he thinks but compromises by agreeing with everyone because he doesn't want to get called out/is to scared to voice against someone more "respectable" you are doing what is akin to creating a lot of nothing by finding fault with everything, not really giving out much of an explanation on why half the player list is "scummy." we can't have a discussion when any time anybody says something it is scummy.

i don't have enough of a "clue" to understand what exactly a "Revisionist" scumtell is or how to spot one but i guess since it's been perfect so far, it has to win us the game right ?_?

 

[Metal Sonic]

vote tik

i too copy and paste my role PM from the 1st post.


(note: where I come from, quoting role pms is an offence)

vonfielder is also scum

 

[Flamestrike]

I kind of worded things wrong there. I meant catch up.
Ok, from what I have seen so far, the general consensus seems to be that TIK is scummy. I also noticed that I wasn't the only one who had IRL reasons they couldn't post, but I think being without internet is a valid excuse. At the risk of being accused of bandwagoning again,
Vote: THE_IRON_KENYAN

Thanks for speaking up! I think you misunderstood what bandwagoning is though; bandwagoning is when you follow the popular lynch just because everyone else is voting for it without giving any particular good reasoning of your own. Which, admittedly, is exactly what you're doing. You're getting better though! Just try giving some of your own reasoning next time instead of "I did it because everyone else did"

I kind of think it's unlikely there's a silence because silences in NOC are super lame, and yeah this isn't quite NOC but it's Close Enough. That said wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was one? tbh if the mafia was gonna silence the Rohirrim the silenced one might as well just suicide for the good of the town.

Pidge makes a good argument about TIK but I don't really know TIK well enough to know how good an argument this is. People are lazy in games (source: I'm lazy) so it's entirely possible TIK didn't bother (maybe he was waiting for DLE to say something, idk). Is it bad play? Yeah. But just because someone did something stupid doesn't mean they're scum.

For example, consider this: If TIK was scum and playing properly, wouldn't he have gone over his fakeclaim with his team beforehand and/or known not to claim he knew the other members of the Rohirrim, especially when he actually didn't? That seems ridiculously careless. It would mean that not only would TIK not know how the Rohirrim worked, but so did every member of his team that he talked to.

Have to admit, this is a pretty good point. All TIK's mistake shows is that, well, he made a stupid mistake. Whether he made it as village or he made it as mafia is nearly impossible to tell. I still think it's our safest lynch and that if we have no better option we should run with it, but we still have most of a day left, so for now I'd rather use my vote for something slightly more constructive. Prodding people!

Unvote
Lynch askaninjask

You haven't posted since the start of the day just about, and I know you were around last night to update Space Wars so you had a chance to at least make a comment on what's going on. We could use your input!

 

[Flamestrike]

Double posting to nag Metal Sonic a bit; I know you play NOC a bit (a lot?) differently than most of us, but it would be nice to know why you're voting TIK and why you think von is scum.

 

[Ullar]

Morning all, just wanted to pop in to say

I don't take bias into mafia. I just get irritable when people act astoundingly stupid. Case in point, Ullar is a valued member of #flamel, the smogon side-community that kind of helped me get a badge. He's a player in one of my upcoming Pathfinder campaigns, where I've made concessions with the rules so that he can have as much fun as he wants to.

lol the kinky debased vampire/goblin-loving dude is 'valued'

like really, you haven't seen me in CC or WotR have you? Just mention the words 'Evgenya' or 'Cynthia' and they'll give you a nice story

But in all seriousness, I concede that I've made some bad decisions - they're just not as bad as you claim. Sure, we have similar suspects. That says nothing but we have similar ideas on who should be lynched - though I must admit, some of them were due to the push for TIK. I'm not so sure TIK is a baddie, so...it's honestly hard to tell who is scummy and who isn't at this point, because EVERYONE'S bandwagoning this.

In other news, I never said it was ok to pubclaim. Hell, I was mildly against it! Blame Eagle for that bit, and don't try to pin it on me.

So, a revised scumlist:
-vonfiedler (a bit iffy on this one, actually - while you're spreading a bit of dissent, my gut tells me you may be village...possibly)
-Agape (holy feck man)
-there's someone in the TIK lynch that's scummy, I'm sure
-@Mithril . Yes, the guy who posted once. 'Sacrifice one for the good of many' is not the best option. It really isn't. We want to avoid town lynches if at all possible. Every town lynch gets the mafia one step closer to majority.

 

[JALMONT]

let me go one step farther and say that i bet there is one user who has posted in this thread that is mafia

 

[Ullar]

sorry, the hl didn't go over right on Mithril

 

[askaninjask]

I'm not sure we can call a verdict on TIK, I'm not convinced he's our best voting target today. Being wrong about the structure of the village can be a huge tell, but that's a really bold mistake to make and I'm not sure he would say the same thing

Ullar has yet to make an intelligent/reasonable post itg

I don't like that von brought up outside-the-game behavior recently to defend himself, his arguments have been kind of flimsy and he's the kind of user who would know when his arguments are flimsy.

There are two users I want to call out though that have not been getting enough heat. The first is Upside, who posted once attempting to clarify the rules. This is the least contentious post imaginable - one that would seem like a good idea from the mafia perspective. Nobody gets angry at you, etc. When I was mafia in Walrein's NOC game I did exactly the same thing. Seem helpful, and they won't suspect you. Well, I suspect you.

The second is Flamestrike who called me out. He is also attempting desperately to make posts that won't make anyone angry. His posts have a lot of defense in them even though nobody has been attacking him other than Agape for like half a post. "Thanks for speaking up!" he says in response to the person he called out's post. Being nice != being village, and in this case I think it's indicative that he doesn't want to make anyone angry at him, similar to Upside, which is a scum thing to do. I can elaborate on this but will choose not to until he responds.

 

[askaninjask]

lol was editing the first paragraph in my previous post and forgot to finish editing before I posted. Let me elaborate. The sentence was going to end "as a mafian" or sth similar.

I think Pidge has been pretty reasonable in his posts against TIK so far, but I also think that TIK's behavior is too explainable as a confused villager. That defense just makes a lot of sense to me and I am wary of lynching him for that reason.

 

[Ullar]

If askaninjask considers none of my posts reasonable or intelligent, I really have no defense, now do I?

 

[Eagle4]

I still think a No Lynch today would be more beneficial than anybody who is NOT guaranteed scum or anywhere close to. Unlike other NOCs where No Lynch is usually a bad idea, we have a whole OC night to figure out scum. It's better lynching no-one today than lynching somebody that is still potentially village.

What I AM worried about is the lack of people defending TIK and the amount of people who seem happy to vote for him. Makes me think that TIK is a good target for the mafia to jump onto, if TIK ends up village.

Gonna post some reads later on tonight, stay tuned.

reyscarface Post more! You've jumped on the TIK bandwagon so far, I want you to formulate your own opinion :)

 

[Lrr]

Pidge: The point isn't that the case I made is necessarily better or right, it's that "This is way too stupid a mistake to expect from a villager he must be mafia" is bad logic since it's just as easy to say "This is way too stupid a mistake to expect from a mafia," and from my experience it's more likely a villager did something like this because they tend to only have themselves and the host to rely on, whereas a mafioso would have his entire team, so TIK being a mafia fucking up would require an extra layer of "Didn't discuss fakeclaim with team" since not only did he make a highly questionable claim, but he only figured out how shit it was after Ullar posted to get him lynched, which means he probably also did not tell his team what he claimed and they didn't come up with a good plan to get heat off him.

 

[Aura Guardian]

Eagle: No Lynch is the worst move because ... well, it's basically the same as the mafia idling their kill. The information we can gain is a huge bonus, and no lynch is forfeiting that edge.

 

[Celever]

-vonfiedler (a bit iffy on this one, actually - while you're spreading a bit of dissent, my gut tells me you may be village...possibly)
-Agape (holy feck man)
-there's someone in the TIK lynch that's scummy, I'm sure
-@Mithril . Yes, the guy who posted once. 'Sacrifice one for the good of many' is not the best option. It really isn't. We want to avoid town lynches if at all possible. Every town lynch gets the mafia one step closer to majority.

The only decent-at-best reason there is Agape, who just happens to be playing very aggressively. This is something that scum do to get out of contributing, but also something that villagers do to apply pressure. I think we all know that Agape is contributing, so that point is moot. However, Agape could actually not be contributing, instead spreading false information around the town. Only time will tell.

I really can't suggest a target for this lynch though, unfortunately...