OU Ludicolo

Given Ludiculo's frailty and the fact that Ferrothorn is the single biggest obstacle for rain (all other SSers are stopped cold by it save Low Kick Kabutops, who usually has better things to run) it seems straight up naive to thing RD has more use than Focus Blast. No, it doesn't have many targets, but it's not even arguable that breaking Ferrothorn alone is one of the few things (aside from its okay defensive typing and gaining life off bulky waters I guess) that makes Ludiculo worth choosing
 

Martin

Our plans may have been ruined by a cup of curry
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Given Ludiculo's frailty and the fact that Ferrothorn is the single biggest obstacle for rain (all other SSers are stopped cold by it save Low Kick Kabutops, who usually has better things to run) it seems straight up naive to thing RD has more use than Focus Blast. No, it doesn't have many targets, but it's not even arguable that breaking Ferrothorn alone is one of the few things (aside from its okay defensive typing and gaining life off bulky waters I guess) that makes Ludiculo worth choosing
I do agree with you and I am still debating it dispite the QC recommendation in this post.

Tehy: I will implement this, although I will have to disagree with your point about me not knowing the metagame (which for some reason has been put inside the amcheck), and I am a little sketchy to put Power Whip as the sole move that Ferrothorn will be hurting Ludicolo with as many like running Knock Off nowerdays and it has a far greater effect on Ludicolo than Power Whip does, knocking of that all-important Life Orb. Many spelling mistakes that were made were due to me just being plain tired when I wrote the analysis up combined with the fact that this really isn't a great keyboard. I will implement it all later, when I get a little time.
 
Last edited:

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ok this has been discussed as QC. There's literally no reason to use Ludicolo on rain teams, when there are two more powerful/threatening Swift Swimmers with better STABs. The only advantage would be, like, not getting set up on by Suicune, which isn't significant enough to devote a whole other teamslot, when you have strong Thunder-using Electric-types to do this. It loses to the Latis, unlike the other premier Swift Swimmers, and is general not that hard to deal with whereas Kabutops especially is ridiculous for offense to deal with. Kabutops can also break Ferrothorn with a 100% accurate Low Kick that OHKOes at +2, overshadowing Ludicolo in that aspect, and there is stuff like Superpower SD Mega Scizor. Ludicolo is not worth it.

QC Rejected 1/3
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Ok this has been discussed as QC. There's literally no reason to use Ludicolo on rain teams, when there are two more powerful/threatening Swift Swimmers with better STABs. The only advantage would be, like, not getting set up on by Suicune, which isn't significant enough to devote a whole other teamslot, when you have strong Thunder-using Electric-types to do this. It loses to the Latis, unlike the other premier Swift Swimmers, and is general not that hard to deal with whereas Kabutops especially is ridiculous for offense to deal with. Kabutops can also break Ferrothorn with a 100% accurate Low Kick that OHKOes at +2, overshadowing Ludicolo in that aspect, and there is stuff like Superpower SD Mega Scizor. Ludicolo is not worth it.

QC Rejected 1/3
I dont really understand this Jukain. Let me rebutt.

FIrstly, you say there is no reason to use Ludicolo whatsoever besides beating Suicune. Suicune is not the only bulky water type that rain teams sturggle with. Rotom-W is a complete pain in the ass to rain times and Ludicolo soundly beats it. Gastrodon may be "irrelevant" however it wont be irrelevant to you when it walls your entire fucking rain team and you lose because of it. Rain teams have gained some popularity and its only natural for the metagame to shift a bit in the anti rain direction, Gastrodon is a Pokemon that we gave an analysis and is definitely OU viable, our Analyses should be adaptable to what the metagame might look like in the future and not just exactly what it does right. Even some recently written analyses have garbage like Jellicent and Trevenant mentiond as "defensive ghosts to watch out for", things can quickly become outdated. What im saiyng is that if SDef Rotom-W, Gastrodon and some other bulky waters ill list become more popular in the future then it would look outdated and wrong for Ludicolo to not have an OU analysis. Even in their present usage they trouble rain teams enough to warrant Ludicolo gaining a place on a rain team. Mega Gyarados is something that troubles teams as is Azumarill and neither can beat Ludicolo 1 on 1, in fact Ludi easily walls mega Gyara even in the rain. Manaphy, KEldeo and a bunch of water types also exist and are not hugely problematic for rain teams, though Keldeo walls KAbutops, but are still an issue that Ludicolo more easily deals with than other rain abusers.

Secondly, I fail to see how Ludi is that much less threatning/powerful than other rain abusers. I mean, it has 5 whole less SpA than Kingdra meaning its pumps hit just about as hard, while it has an easier time bypassing roadblocks for Kingdra such as Ferrothorn and Bulky waters in general.

Thirdly, I also fail to see how Ludi loses to the latis? It 2hkos Latias with Ice Beam, yes it requires a degree of prediction but a clean 2HKO is certainly not a loss.

Finally, KAbutops does not overshadow Ludicolo and FErrothorn breaking. Firstly, setting up an SD with KAbutops is very challenging, while Ludicolo easily 2HKOs max HP Ferrothorn with Hydro Pump/Ice Beam + Focus Blast meaning that unlike tops who has to predict, Ludi can just spam its STAB like it wants to and gets past Ferro. Even beyond that FErrothorn checks +0 Kabutops very well even if it packs Low Kick however it can not check Ludicolo at all as ice beam + FOcus Blast KOs max HP Ferrothorn while of course Leech Seed has no effect on Ludi and it is not KO'd by Power Whip. Sdef Ferrothorn is more ofa problem to Ludi ill admit, however it will still always be 2HKOd by FOcus Blast and can not OHKO Ferro back so it certainly loses 1v1 regardless. To round this arugment off I will also say that its not as if KAbutops gives up nothing to use SD + Low kick. It then can not run Aqua Jet or RApid Spin while Ludi has nothing better to throw in the lasts lot of its moveset.

So you see I really have no idea why Ludicolo is being rejected when it can be a very valuable member of rain teams.

Also, im going to use my authority here. Gamerboy, replace Rain Dance with FOcus Blast as the main slash on the set or im going to move to have this reassigned. IT is invaluable to Rain teams and Rain Dance has little use.
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Seeing as there was a 5-2 majority for rejecting it when we brought it up, I figured there would be less opposition. I'll go out and test it and come back with my findings. Still inclined to reject.
 

Martin

Our plans may have been ruined by a cup of curry
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Ash Borer I have implemented the change. I am also going to put this back to QC 2/3 for it to all be looked over one last time
 
Last edited:

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
you can bump this up to QC 3/3 as soon as you put Focus Blast as the main option over rain dance. Other than that, this is good, get it to GP.
 

GatoDelFuego

Legendary Cat
is a Live Chat Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
DANCE WATER DANCE

gamer boy

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Overview
########

Ludicolo is the only fully evolved Pokemon with the great offensive and defensive typing of Water / Grass, which makes Ludicolo a force to be reckoned with when it has rain to play in. Add his its nifty 4x resistance to Water into the mix, meaning that opposing Water-types can't abuse the rain also provided that Ludicolo is in, and Ludicolo makes a decent rain abuser, with an excellent Speed stat after the Swift Swim boost. However, the weather nerf hit Ludicolo very hard, although it does enjoy there being no more Drizzle + Swift Swim clause to mess around with its sweeping capabilities. It is weak to Flying-, (RC) and Bug-type attacks, as well as Poison-type attacks which are gaining popularity due to the introduction of the Fairy-type. Furthermore, when it is outside of the rain its stats are no better than middling, meaning that it is completely reliant on said weather to succeed in the OU tier. Ludicolo receives stiff competition from Kabutops and Kingdra as rain sweepers in the OU tier, both of which have better overall stats, require less team support, and are less reliant on rain to succeed. However, once you look past these drawbacks, you see that Ludicolo is in no way a bad Pokemon, as it is still has its a force to be reckoned with its excellent, unique typing and blazing Speed once the rain is up.

Rain Sweeper
########
name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is a monstrous move when the rain is active, scoring many OHKOs and 2HKOs on Pokemon which do not resist it. such as However, if you fear for the accuracy of the move, are on the side of accuracy in that endless war between power and accuracy, you can run Surf, although the power drop is very noticable you must remember that it will miss out on many KOs and that it is more reliant on rain than Hydro Pump to hit hard. Giga Drain is the Grass-type STAB of choice for Ludicolo as it hits with decent power, covering the Water-types that like to come in and sponge Ludicolo's hits, (RC) while also providing healing for Ludicolo. Ice Beam is there to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types which resist both of Ludicolo's STAB moves. Finally, Focus Blast is an attractive option for hitting Ferrothorn and Abomasnow. However, you should only be using this on a predicted switch-in as these two Pokemon are only 2HKOd by Focus Blast and can both maim Ludicolo back with Knock Off and Blizzard, respectively. If you prefer the ability to set up rain yourself predicting a forced switch, you can run Rain Dance. However, this does leave you Ludicolo completely walled by the aformentioned Pokemon.

Set Details
========

The given EVs are simple: maximize Ludicolo's Speed while providing as much punch as possible. Life Orb is used to aid Ludicolo in this respect as it can boost its power to terrifying levels in the case of Hydro Pump and usable levels for its other moves. A Modest nature has been chosen in order to boost Ludicolo's power further, since as Ludicolo will mostly be attacking under rain as it is. Swift Swim is used so that Ludicolo actually has some sweeping capabilities, as its Speed stat is otherwise middling.

Usage Tips
========

Due to the weather nerf this generation, Ludicolo now has a limited number of turns in which to abuse the rain, so play Ludicolo with precision (ie. land all of your predictions: Ludicolo doesn't have enough time to using a resisted move). However, you will find that Ludicolo will still be using Hydro Pump most of the time anyway, (RC) due to its raw power when under rain. Make sure that the rain is always up when you bring Ludicolo in; (SC) if it means sacrificing your Politoed to get the rain up so be it. Refresh the rain as much as possible; also make sure that you remove anything that can prevent Ludicolo from successfully sweeping, such as Talonflame and Ferrothorn.

Team Options
========

Politoed, most notably the Damp Rock variant, is an amazing partner for Ludicolo for obvious reasons, as simply switching it in successfully is all the time it needs to get the rain up due to Drizzle. Kingdra and Ludicolo share the same set of checks and counters offensively, giving you a backup plan when one of them faints and letting one soften walls for the other to break. Rotom-Wash is capable of dealing with Talonflame effectively, making it a valuable asset on any team that features Ludicolo. Rapid Spin and Defog users, most notably Tentacruel for its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes upon switch-in and Latios due to its nicely buffed up Surf and Thunder, are able to deal with Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes, (AC) both of which plague Ludicolo due to the fact that they limit Ludicolo's sweeping capabilities and wear it down quickly, respectively. Anything with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to get rid of status from Ludicolo, such as Chansey, Blissey, (AC) or Vaporeon, is an excellent teammate as Ludicolo loathes them. Finally, Thundurus provide a reliable stop to both Ferrothorn and Talonflame, most notably the former as Ludicolo is immune to Leech Seed and Thundurus is immune to Thunder Wave. (period) Thundurus also has while also having great synergy with Ludicolo with its nicely buffed Thunder.

Other Options
########

Ludicolo has a massive movepool to abuse. However, most of Ludicolo's other options are either outclassed by the options listed or another Pokemon who that can do the job much better. First of all, Ludicolo can run Choice Specs for its ability to ease prediction a little, getting a guaranteed 2HKO on Latios with Hydro Pump. However, aside from the fact that Life Orb Ludicolo 2HKOes Latios with Hydro Pump + Ice Beam anyway, the main issue is that it faces is the fact that Ludicolo needs the ability to switch moves if it wants to do anything useful in the OU tier, as a Choice Specs set is outclassed by most specially based attackers. Energy Ball could be used over Giga Drain for the extra power output, and Encore is an option for stopping Pokemon from setting up on Ludicolo once the rain has worn off; however Ludicolo misses the healing that Giga Drain provides while Encore has very limited use and is very situational, making it a gimmick at best. Scald can be used over Surf or Hydro Pump for the burn chance, (comma) however, you will often find that it lacks in power compared to said moves, missing out on many KOs even when it does burn. Finally, Ludicolo has access to Rain Dish, which could warrant a tank set with Assault Vest. However, the lack of permanent rain this generation diminishes the usefulness of such a set dramatically, so it is not recommended.

Checks and Counters
########
put these spaces after the colons in
**Super Effective Attacks**: Talonflame doesn't care about Swift Swim due to Gale Wings and can OHKO Ludicolo with Brave Bird 100% of the time, although it can't switch in against you, forcing it to come in after a fainted teammate Ludicolo's attack or on a predicted Giga Drain. Also, Mega Venusaur doesn't care about Ice Beam due to Thick Fat and can hit Ludicolo hard back with a STAB Sludge Bomb.

**Other Weather Control**: Anything that can change the weather from rain is a great counter, most notably Mega Charizard Y who which can outpace in the sun and OHKO with a sun-boosted Fire Blast and Mega Tyranitar who which can outpace in sandstorm and OHKO with Stone Edge 100% of the time are effective ways of dealing with Ludicolo.

**Hard Hitting Tanks**: Kyurem ad Kyurem-Black shrug off everything that Ludicolo can throw at them with ease and deal heavy damage back with Draco Meteor or Outrage, (RC) respectively. (period), and Assault Vest Conkeldurr can tank Ludicolo's attacks, (AC) but although, as a rain-boosted Hydro Pump will hurt a lot, meaning it must get a free switch-in against Ludicolo or predict an Ice Beam or Giga Drain correctly, threatening Ludicolo back with a powerful Drain Punch or Knock Off.

**Walls**: Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur wall Ludicolo to no end and can retalliate back with Knock Off or Sludge Bomb, respectively. Furthermore, any special wall, such as Chansey, Blissey, (AC) or Assault Vest Goodra, can tank whatever Ludicolo throws at it and stall out Ludicolo's rain with ease.

**Anti-Speed Tactics**: Trick Room leaves Ludicolo in a predicament as Ludicolo is forced to use the rain to have any sort of offensive presence, and Trick Room just flips this on its head. Ludicolo also hates paralysis, as it cuts Ludicolo's Speed stat down to a quarter of what it was before. This means that common users of the move, such as Ferrothorn and Thundurus, are able to cause massive problems for Ludicolo. Finally, Sticky Web, while having less of an effect on Ludicolo than paralysis, is still detremental for Ludicolo. This makes Galvantula and Smeargle—the most common users of the move—checks to Ludicolo, and to top it all off Galvantula is able to 2HKO Ludicolo with Bug Buzz.

**Wearing-Down Status**:Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are able to wear Ludicolo down quickly in conjunction with the Life Orb recoil. Toxic Spikes can also get this powerful timer onto Ludicolo by inflicting the poison or bad poison statuses onto Ludicolo. Finally, the combination of entry hazards and phazers increase the speed rate at which Ludicolo gets worn down further.

1/2
 
Last edited:
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments

Overview
########

Ludicolo is the only fully evolved Pokemon with the great offensive and defensive typing of Water / Grass, which makes Ludicolo it a force to be reckoned with when it has rain to play in; add its nifty 4x resistance to Water-type moves into the mix, meaning that opposing Water-types can't abuse the rain that Ludicolo is in, and Ludicolo makes a decent rain abuser, with an excellent Speed stat after the Swift Swim boost. However, the weather nerf hit Ludicolo very hard, although it does enjoy there being no more Drizzle + Swift Swim clause to mess around with its sweeping capabilities. It is weak to Flying- and Bug-type attacks, as well as Poison-type attacks which are gaining popularity due to their effectiveness against Fairy-types. Furthermore, when it Ludicolo is outside of the rain, (add comma) its stats are no better than middling, meaning that it is completely reliant on said weather to succeed in OU. Ludicolo receives stiff competition from Kabutops and Kingdra as rain sweepers in OU, both of which have better overall stats, require less team support, and are less reliant on rain to succeed. However, Ludicolo is in no way a bad Pokemon, as it still has its unique typing and blazing Speed once the rain is up.

Rain Sweeper
########
name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is a monstrous move when the rain is active, as it scores many OHKOs and 2HKOs on Pokemon which do not resist it, such as Bisharp, Thundurus, and Conkeldurr, easing prediction. However, if you fear the accuracy of the move, you can run Surf, although the power drop is noticable. Giga Drain is the Grass-type STAB of choice for Ludicolo as it hits with decent power, covering the Water-types that like to come in and sponge Ludicolo's hits while also providing healing. Ice Beam is there to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types which resist both of Ludicolo's STAB moves. Finally, Focus Blast is an attractive option for hitting Ferrothorn and Abomasnow, (add comma) the latter of which can clear your rain. However, you Ludicolo should only be using this on a predicted switch-in as these two Pokemon are only 2HKOed by Focus Blast and can both maim Ludicolo back with Knock Off and Blizzard, respectively. If you prefer the ability to set up rain yourself with Ludicolo itself predicting a forced switch, you can run Rain Dance. This also has merit for gaining momentum against opposing weather-changer switch-ins. However, this does leave Ludicolo completely walled by the aformentioned Ferrothorn and Abomasnow despite the momentum gained against the latter; as such, it isn't recommended.

Set Details
========

The given EVs are simple: maximize Ludicolo's Speed while providing as much punch as possible. Life Orb is used to aid Ludicolo in this respect as it can boost its power to terrifying levels in the case of Hydro Pump and usable levels for its other moves. A Modest nature has been chosen in order to boost Ludicolo's power further, as Ludicolo will mostly be attacking under rain as it is. Swift Swim is used so that Ludicolo actually has some sweeping capabilities, as its Speed stat is otherwise middling.

Usage Tips
========

Due to the weather nerf this generation, Ludicolo now has a limited number of turns in which to use rain, so play Ludicolo with precision (i.e., land all of your predictions: Ludicolo doesn't have enough time to using a resisted move). However, you will find that Ludicolo will still be using Hydro Pump most of the time anyway due to its raw power when under rain. Make sure that the rain is always up when you bring Ludicolo in; if it means sacrificing your Politoed to get the rain up, (add comma) so be it. Refresh the rain as much as possible; also make sure that you remove anything that can prevent Ludicolo from successfully sweeping, such as Talonflame and Ferrothorn.

Team Options
========

Politoed, most notably the Damp Rock variant, is an amazing partner for Ludicolo for obvious reasons. Kingdra and Ludicolo share the same set of checks and counters offensively, giving you a backup plan when one of them faints and letting one soften walls for the other to break. Additionally, Ludicolo gets past bulky Water-types for Kingdra, making it easier for Kingdra to sweep when Ludicolo cannot. Rotom-W is capable of dealing with Talonflame effectively, making it a valuable asset on any team that features Ludicolo. Rapid Spin and Defog users, most notably Tentacruel for its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes (space) and Latios due to its nicely buffed-up Surf and Thunder, are able to deal with Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes, both of which plague Ludicolo due to the fact that they limit Ludicolo's its sweeping capabilities and wear it down quickly, respectively. Anything with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to get rid of status from on Ludicolo, such as Chansey, Blissey, (add comma) or Vaporeon, is an excellent teammate. Finally, Thundurus provides a reliable stop to both Ferrothorn and Talonflame, most notably the former as Ludicolo is immune to Leech Seed and Thundurus is immune to Thunder Wave. Thundurus also has great synergy with Ludicolo with its nicely buffed Thunder.

Other Options
########

Ludicolo has a massive movepool to use. However, most of Ludicolo's its other options are either outclassed by the options listed or another Pokemon that can do the job much better. First of all, Ludicolo can run Choice Specs for its ability to ease prediction a little, getting a guaranteed 2HKO on Latios with Hydro Pump. However, aside from the fact that Life Orb Ludicolo 2HKOes Latios with Hydro Pump + Ice Beam anyway, the main issue is that Ludicolo needs the ability to switch moves if it wants to do anything useful, as a Choice Specs set is outclassed by most specially based attackers. Energy Ball could be used over Giga Drain for the extra power output, scoring a guaranteed OHKO on 228 HP Azumarill, and Encore is an option for stopping Pokemon from setting up on Ludicolo once the rain has worn off; however, (add comma) Ludicolo misses the healing that Giga Drain provides, (add comma) while Encore has very limited use and is very situational. Scald can be used over Surf or Hydro Pump for the burn chance, however but it lacks in power compared to said moves, missing out on many KOs even when it does burn. Finally, Ludicolo has access to Rain Dish, which could warrant a tank set with Assault Vest. However, the lack of permanent rain this generation diminishes the usefulness of such a set dramatically, so it is not recommended.

Checks and Counters
########

**Super Effective Attacks**: Talonflame doesn't care about Swift Swim due to Gale Wings and can OHKO Ludicolo with Brave Bird 100% of the time, although it can't switch in against you directly, forcing it to come in after a fainted teammate, slow U-turn, Volt Switch or Parting Shot, (add comma) or on a predicted Giga Drain. Mega Venusaur doesn't care about Ice Beam due to Thick Fat and can hit Ludicolo hard back with a STAB Sludge Bomb.

**Weather Control**: Anything that can change the weather from rain is a good counter. Offensively, Mega Charizard Y can outpace Ludicolo in the sun and OHKO with a sun-boosted Fire Blast, (add comma) and Mega Tyranitar who can outpace in sandstorm and OHKO with Stone Edge 100% of the time. Defensively, Abomasnow and its Mega Evolution are by far the kings of the heap, only fearing Focus Blast. Ninetales can change change Ludicolo's weather and outpace it to get off a Will-O-Wisp, with specially bulky variants rarely being 2HKOed.

**Tanks**: (space) Kyurem ad Kyurem-B shrug off everything that Ludicolo can throw at them barring Focus Blast and deal heavy damage back with Draco Meteor or Outrage, (add comma) respectively. Also, Assault Vest Goodra can tank even Ice Beams and threaten back with a Dragon Pulse or the rare Sludge Wave or Sludge Bomb. Mega Venusaur fears nothing that Ludicolo can throw at it and can retaliate with a STAB Sludge Bomb.

**Walls**: (space) Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur wall Ludicolo to no end and can retalliate back with Knock Off or Sludge Bomb, respectively. Furthermore, any special wall, such as Chansey, Blissey, or Assault Vest Goodra, can tank whatever Ludicolo throws at it and stall out Ludicolo's rain with ease.

**Anti-Speed Tactics**: (space) Trick Room leaves Ludicolo in a predicament as Ludicolo the latter is forced to use the rain to have any sort of offensive presence, and Trick Room just flips this on its head. Ludicolo also hates paralysis, as it which cuts Ludicolo's its Speed stat down to a quarter. This means that common users of Thunder Wave, such as Ferrothorn and Thundurus, are able to cause massive problems for Ludicolo. Finally, Sticky Web, while having less of an effect on Ludicolo than paralysis, is still detrimental for Ludicolo. This makes Galvantula and Smeargle, the most common users of the move, checks to Ludicolo, and to top it all off, (add comma) Galvantula is able to 2HKO Ludicolo with Bug Buzz.

**Wearing-Down Residual Damage**: (space) Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are able to wear Ludicolo down quickly in conjunction with the Life Orb recoil. Toxic Spikes can also get this powerful timer onto Ludicolo by inflicting poison. Finally, the combination of entry hazards and phazers increases the rate at which Ludicolo gets worn down further.


WOW epic fail so I finish a check and completely forget to stamp it X_X



GP 2 / 2
 
Last edited:

Martin

Our plans may have been ruined by a cup of curry
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments

Overview
########

Ludicolo is the only fully evolved Pokemon with the great offensive and defensive typing of Water / Grass, which makes Ludicolo it a force to be reckoned with when it has rain to play in; add its nifty 4x resistance to Water-type moves into the mix, meaning that opposing Water-types can't abuse the rain that Ludicolo is in, and Ludicolo makes a decent rain abuser, with an excellent Speed stat after the Swift Swim boost. However, the weather nerf hit Ludicolo very hard, although it does enjoy there being no more Drizzle + Swift Swim clause to mess around with its sweeping capabilities. It is weak to Flying- and Bug-type attacks, as well as Poison-type attacks which are gaining popularity due to their effectiveness against Fairy-types. Furthermore, when it Ludicolo is outside of the rain, (add comma) its stats are no better than middling, meaning that it is completely reliant on said weather to succeed in OU. Ludicolo receives stiff competition from Kabutops and Kingdra as rain sweepers in OU, both of which have better overall stats, require less team support, and are less reliant on rain to succeed. However, Ludicolo is in no way a bad Pokemon, as it still has its unique typing and blazing Speed once the rain is up.

Rain Sweeper
########
name: Rain Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Hydro Pump is a monstrous move when the rain is active, as it scores many OHKOs and 2HKOs on Pokemon which do not resist it, such as Bisharp, Thundurus, and Conkeldurr, easing prediction. However, if you fear the accuracy of the move, you can run Surf, although the power drop is noticable. Giga Drain is the Grass-type STAB of choice for Ludicolo as it hits with decent power, covering the Water-types that like to come in and sponge Ludicolo's hits while also providing healing. Ice Beam is there to hit the Grass- and Dragon-types which resist both of Ludicolo's STAB moves. Finally, Focus Blast is an attractive option for hitting Ferrothorn and Abomasnow, (add comma) the latter of which can clear your rain. However, you Ludicolo should only be using this on a predicted switch-in as these two Pokemon are only 2HKOed by Focus Blast and can both maim Ludicolo back with Knock Off and Blizzard, respectively. If you prefer the ability to set up rain yourself with Ludicolo itself predicting a forced switch, you can run Rain Dance. This also has merit for gaining momentum against opposing weather-changer switch-ins. However, this does leave Ludicolo completely walled by the aformentioned Ferrothorn and Abomasnow despite the momentum gained against the latter; as such, it isn't recommended.

Set Details
========

The given EVs are simple: maximize Ludicolo's Speed while providing as much punch as possible. Life Orb is used to aid Ludicolo in this respect as it can boost its power to terrifying levels in the case of Hydro Pump and usable levels for its other moves. A Modest nature has been chosen in order to boost Ludicolo's power further, as Ludicolo will mostly be attacking under rain as it is. Swift Swim is used so that Ludicolo actually has some sweeping capabilities, as its Speed stat is otherwise middling.

Usage Tips
========

Due to the weather nerf this generation, Ludicolo now has a limited number of turns in which to use rain, so play Ludicolo with precision (i.e., land all of your predictions: Ludicolo doesn't have enough time to using a resisted move). However, you will find that Ludicolo will still be using Hydro Pump most of the time anyway due to its raw power when under rain. Make sure that the rain is always up when you bring Ludicolo in; if it means sacrificing your Politoed to get the rain up, (add comma) so be it. Refresh the rain as much as possible; also make sure that you remove anything that can prevent Ludicolo from successfully sweeping, such as Talonflame and Ferrothorn.

Team Options
========

Politoed, most notably the Damp Rock variant, is an amazing partner for Ludicolo for obvious reasons. Kingdra and Ludicolo share the same set of checks and counters offensively, giving you a backup plan when one of them faints and letting one soften walls for the other to break. Additionally, Ludicolo gets past bulky Water-types for Kingdra, making it easier for Kingdra to sweep when Ludicolo cannot. Rotom-W is capable of dealing with Talonflame effectively, making it a valuable asset on any team that features Ludicolo. Rapid Spin and Defog users, most notably Tentacruel for its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes (space) and Latios due to its nicely buffed-up Surf and Thunder, are able to deal with Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes, both of which plague Ludicolo due to the fact that they limit Ludicolo's its sweeping capabilities and wear it down quickly, respectively. Anything with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to get rid of status from on Ludicolo, such as Chansey, Blissey, (add comma) or Vaporeon, is an excellent teammate. Finally, Thundurus provides a reliable stop to both Ferrothorn and Talonflame, most notably the former as Ludicolo is immune to Leech Seed and Thundurus is immune to Thunder Wave. Thundurus also has great synergy with Ludicolo with its nicely buffed Thunder.

Other Options
########

Ludicolo has a massive movepool to use. However, most of Ludicolo's its other options are either outclassed by the options listed or another Pokemon that can do the job much better. First of all, Ludicolo can run Choice Specs for its ability to ease prediction a little, getting a guaranteed 2HKO on Latios with Hydro Pump. However, aside from the fact that Life Orb Ludicolo 2HKOes Latios with Hydro Pump + Ice Beam anyway, the main issue is that Ludicolo needs the ability to switch moves if it wants to do anything useful, as a Choice Specs set is outclassed by most specially based attackers. Energy Ball could be used over Giga Drain for the extra power output, scoring a guaranteed OHKO on 228 HP Azumarill, and Encore is an option for stopping Pokemon from setting up on Ludicolo once the rain has worn off; however, (add comma) Ludicolo misses the healing that Giga Drain provides, (add comma) while Encore has very limited use and is very situational. Scald can be used over Surf or Hydro Pump for the burn chance, however but it lacks in power compared to said moves, missing out on many KOs even when it does burn. Finally, Ludicolo has access to Rain Dish, which could warrant a tank set with Assault Vest. However, the lack of permanent rain this generation diminishes the usefulness of such a set dramatically, so it is not recommended.

Checks and Counters
########

**Super Effective Attacks**: Talonflame doesn't care about Swift Swim due to Gale Wings and can OHKO Ludicolo with Brave Bird 100% of the time, although it can't switch in against you directly, forcing it to come in after a fainted teammate, slow U-turn, Volt Switch or Parting Shot, (add comma) or on a predicted Giga Drain. Mega Venusaur doesn't care about Ice Beam due to Thick Fat and can hit Ludicolo hard back with a STAB Sludge Bomb.

**Weather Control**: Anything that can change the weather from rain is a good counter. Offensively, Mega Charizard Y can outpace Ludicolo in the sun and OHKO with a sun-boosted Fire Blast, (add comma) and Mega Tyranitar who can outpace in sandstorm and OHKO with Stone Edge 100% of the time. Defensively, Abomasnow and its Mega Evolution are by far the kings of the heap, only fearing Focus Blast. Ninetales can change change Ludicolo's weather and outpace it to get off a Will-O-Wisp, with specially bulky variants rarely being 2HKOed.

**Tanks**: (space) Kyurem ad Kyurem-B shrug off everything that Ludicolo can throw at them barring Focus Blast and deal heavy damage back with Draco Meteor or Outrage, (add comma) respectively. Also, Assault Vest Goodra can tank even Ice Beams and threaten back with a Dragon Pulse or the rare Sludge Wave or Sludge Bomb. Mega Venusaur fears nothing that Ludicolo can throw at it and can retaliate with a STAB Sludge Bomb.

**Walls**: (space) Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur wall Ludicolo to no end and can retalliate back with Knock Off or Sludge Bomb, respectively. Furthermore, any special wall, such as Chansey, Blissey, or Assault Vest Goodra, can tank whatever Ludicolo throws at it and stall out Ludicolo's rain with ease.

**Anti-Speed Tactics**: (space) Trick Room leaves Ludicolo in a predicament as Ludicolo the latter is forced to use the rain to have any sort of offensive presence, and Trick Room just flips this on its head. Ludicolo also hates paralysis, as it which cuts Ludicolo's its Speed stat down to a quarter. This means that common users of Thunder Wave, such as Ferrothorn and Thundurus, are able to cause massive problems for Ludicolo. Finally, Sticky Web, while having less of an effect on Ludicolo than paralysis, is still detrimental for Ludicolo. This makes Galvantula and Smeargle, the most common users of the move, checks to Ludicolo, and to top it all off, (add comma) Galvantula is able to 2HKO Ludicolo with Bug Buzz.

**Wearing-Down Residual Damage**: (space) Toxic and Will-O-Wisp are able to wear Ludicolo down quickly in conjunction with the Life Orb recoil. Toxic Spikes can also get this powerful timer onto Ludicolo by inflicting poison. Finally, the combination of entry hazards and phazers increases the rate at which Ludicolo gets worn down further.


Should be done soon.
Thanks for the check. This is done :)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top