Mafia From the Depths - GAME OVER, INSANE WIN

I think you've missed my point. I never said asking questions is bad. I said that asking questions, and nothing else, is bad. What you've posted so far is one question, alongside posts of no substance or significance whatsoever. Of course people are allowed to ask questions; it just shouldn't be the only thing they post. I voted for you because this is exactly what you've been doing today. Shining Latios has also been doing this, but to a lesser extent.
 
Metal Sonic - I've been laid back ever since I first chose to lynch him and I don't have think he is mafia from his recent posts. I would like to see a post on why he thinks Spiffy is a leaning scum, however.
askaninjask - Town read. His posts get discussions going and he seems to be laying a lot of pressure down, which is good for the game.
LightWolf - Seems to be getting a bit inactive in terms of posts, but I am not sure what is holding him up on that. I'm more concerned on why he hasn't answered my question on his top 3 scum reads. A bit suspicious.
shinyskarmory - Tends to repeat what he says and is always claiming he is town. Getting a bit suspicious, but I'm not assuming anything yet.
 
I have very little time to post tonight and I wish I could be more useful - not much has happened since yesterday, though. After Walrein's Day 2 play I am no longer comfortable keeping my sentry vote on him; as such I would like to unsentry Walrein sentry askaninjask for sentry. I think my death may be likely tonight if I don't have protection...
 

Walrein

another dissatisfied customer
is a Community Contributor
Mafia Champion
OK IT'S SPIFFYNALYSIS TIME

I hate Spiffy's day 1. As has been stated multiple times before, he was extremely nonconfrontational and provided only the most vanilla and obvious of opinions (such as "SL is bandwagoning for no reason" or "More Cowbell didn't answer my question". Another thing I don't like about his Day 1 is the fact that he calls no lynch a scummy play. Now, no lynching is bad. We've established this. Hell, we argued about it for pretty much a full day. But is it really all that scummy? Coming from an experienced player, yea, I would find a no lynch suspicious. However, we're talking about the NOC newbies here. They wouldn't know any better, and I can see why they would think it's a good play, considering d1 ends in NL in a large number of 2v1 games.

So we've established that no lynch = bad, but not scummy. Why, then, would Spiffy call it a scummy play, especially coming from the generally inexperienced ShinySkarmory and the first time NOCer (I think) LightWolf? It could be that he really does think that someone who votes for no lynch is more likely to be mafia, in which case he's rather misguided. However, it's also very feasible for Spiffy to be pushing some cheap suspicion upon other players and shift the discussion away from his teammates. Hell, maybe the mafia has no daychat and this is Spiffy telling his team "stahp, you're dumbasses". Either way, I really don't like this.

...at least that was my thinking before I really read deeply into his day 2 posts.

Frankly, I'm not so sure that Spiffy's scum anymore. The pressure got laid onto him on Day 2, and he responded with a series of excellent posts that (gasp!) actually show that Spiffy has the ability to be argumentative and pressure people himself, an ability that I sadly lack. Obviously I don't like the fact that he's chosen me to go after, but I can't say that his points don't have some validity to them.

That being said, it's time to rebuff some points.

Spiffy said:
In this post you say you think SL is mafia, but you don't really commit to this by also acknowledging that Metal Sonic could be mafia too. You provided an escape route to use when SL flipped village. "Oh I thought Metal Sonic was suspicious too so I was not the ring leader."
Also you suggest lynching Metal Sonic would be a good idea if SL turned up village without even stating your reasons why. Just because one side of a huge argument turns up village doesn't mean the other is mafia by default (see Galladiator and UncleSam).
This argument is rather flimsy. Am I not allowed to have multiple scumreads at one time? So what if I feel that both Shining Latios and Metal Sonic are scum? There's 3 scum in the game IIRC (could be wrong, sue me if so), so having multiple scumreads can be quite beneficial.

Also, MS and SL aren't on opposite sides of a huge argument. They barely mentioned each other. This is a completely different dynamic than the US-Galladiator shitstorm (which was funny as hell btw).

Spiffy said:
"Askaninjask could be town but he posts so little, but he is probably town."
Not what I said at all. My post was intended to say "Aska's posts are good and protown, but I wish he would be less inactive".

You also misinterpreted my post about Jalmont. It meant something along the lines of "Empoof makes a lot of joke posts [which is similar to myself sometimes], and I wish he could cut down on those, but when he's serious he has good insight."

These posts were not intended to cast suspicion on either of those players.

Spiffy said:
All of this combined with his extremely shitty latter-half-of-Day-1 and Day 2 (which he admits was crappy but doesn't even attempt to justify it...) makes me think that Walrein is a better target than zorbees.
School happened, LoL happened, insert excuses here, but the bottom line is that real life happenings caused me to have less time to pay attention to the game. Thank god the weekend is coming up so I can get myself out of this mess ~_~

And yeah, that one post was really shitty. I have no justification for that. I'm bad at this game.

So what do I think? Frankly, I'm not sure. His day 1 made me suspect that he was pretty damn mafia, but his great day 2 play is making me question myself (YES I KNOW YOU WERE JUST GOING ON ABOUT MY CONTRADICTIONS AND INDECISIVENESS SHUT UP). For now though, my scumread on him is weak enough to make me unvote Spiffy.

I'm going to bed now, I'm tired. Tomorrow I'm going to look at zorbees and his relationship with Spiffy, and especially try to figure out if there's any meaning behind them going from arguing with each other to starting a bandwagon together.
 
Votecount 2.7

Lynch:
Eagle4: (2) Jalmont shinyskarmory
shinyskarmory: (2) zorbees Shining Latios Eagle4
Shining Latios: (2) shinyskarmory More Cowbell LightWolf
Walrein: (2) Spiffy zorbees
Spiffy: (2) askaninjask Walrein Metal Sonic zorbees
zorbees: (1) Spiffy TPM
Not Voting: (1) Empoof

Sentry:

Jalmont: (2) Jalmont zorbees
LightWolf: (2) Spiffy TPM
askaninjask: (1) askaninjask
shinyskarmory: (1) shinyskarmory
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) Shining Latios
Spiffy: (1) Eagle4
Walrein: (1) Eagle4 askaninjask Walrein
Not Voting: (3) LightWolf, Empoof, Metal Sonic

With 13 alives it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in 56 hours, 2:00 PM GMT.
 
I find Eagle4's post on the previous page (the long one) very interesting, and scummy to say the least. I can understand un-sentrying Walrein, but sentrying Spiffy in his place? Yes, Spiffy has made some good posts today, but on day 1, his posts didn't exactly look town to me. You also do a great job at pointing fingers at others, not answering questions, and then coming with questions yourself. A doubtful course of action, if you ask me.

Also, Eagle4, your voting pattern is very 'standard', so to say. You have yet to give out a vote that is even remotely controversial (except for your new sentry vote, perhaps): on day 1, the only votes you put out were on Metal Sonic, Shining Latios and infinity.cypher, all of which got very close to lynching, or ended up in a lynch. All of these were easy votes, as you could just go with the flow of the game, without adding much discussion. Your vote right now is on shinyskarmory, a vote that isn't all that controversial either. Weirder, however, is the fact that you hardly put any reasoning behind it, other than ''he doesn't answer questions, yet he asks questions to others'' - something you do as well.

Unvote Shining Latios
Lynch Eagle4
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
Mafia Champion
Ok good job Spiffy

He is either a very good mafia player or a decently good town. Either way, unvote Spiffy for the time being, for we will call upon his useful skills to help the town later.

Now, the next person on the list. Eagle4.

Vote Eagle4

According to Jalmont's post, and a smaller extent shinyskarmory's, Eagle has been seen to be making very neutral; go-with-the-flow; repeated and uncontroversial opinions. His posts contribute nothing new to the discussion and have not been providing novel or special thoughts in helping the town get rid of the scum.

Your reason for voting shinyskarmory, seems to be more of a pressure vote. This is fine, but the fact is that shinyskarmory remains to be another uncontroversial, go-with-the-flow lynch as well.


Closing questions: Why do you think you should not be lynched? What have you posted that have evidently benefited the town, including but not exhaustive to discussion?

And lastly: Who seems scummier, shinyskarmory or Shining Latios to You and Why?



Please give a good answer, you're at L-3
 

Metal Sonic

Resurgence
is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
Mafia Champion
Also I apologise for this double post, Eagle4 didn't post a response despite me seeing him "viewing" the thread while I was posting the above post.


This is making him seem more scummy
 
Still have 2 days left, don't do anything rash voting wise...

Also keep in mind that just because a person is seen as. Viewing the thread doesn't mean they've actually seen newposts and stuff. I would be careful about marking people as scum based on that alone. It's different however when a person is looking at the thread for a while and then posts something really short imo
 
Okay okay let's get things straight.

I find Eagle4's post on the previous page (the long one) very interesting, and scummy to say the least. I can understand un-sentrying Walrein, but sentrying Spiffy in his place? Yes, Spiffy has made some good posts today, but on day 1, his posts didn't exactly look town to me. You also do a great job at pointing fingers at others, not answering questions, and then coming with questions yourself. A doubtful course of action, if you ask me.
Okay, as I said, I have never thought Spiffy as mafia. He made very good posts yesterday which made me think he was the right person to sentry. I'm sorry if you disagree, but that's what I think, and what I still think. Even so, how is this even remotely scummy? Sentrying somebody who you think might not be town? Please expand on your point here. Also, what do you mean I do a great job at pointing fingers at others? That's what you're meant to do in NOC. I have "pointed fingers" at other people the same way other people in this game have, there's nothing for you to think I'm mafia from that. Also, what do you mean by not answering questions? Can you give an example of when I haven't answered a question?

According to Jalmont's post, and a smaller extent shinyskarmory's, Eagle has been seen to be making very neutral; go-with-the-flow; repeated and uncontroversial opinions. His posts contribute nothing new to the discussion and have not been providing novel or special thoughts in helping the town get rid of the scum.

Your reason for voting shinyskarmory, seems to be more of a pressure vote. This is fine, but the fact is that shinyskarmory remains to be another uncontroversial, go-with-the-flow lynch as well.
Well, I'm pretty sure that my post about LightWolf isn't "going with the flow". Please see my response to More Cowbell accusing me of going with the flow, as you have basically given the same reasons as More Cowbell and Jalmont.


Metal Sonic said:
Closing questions: Why do you think you should not be lynched? What have you posted that have evidently benefited the town, including but not exhaustive to discussion?

And lastly: Who seems scummier, shinyskarmory or Shining Latios to You and Why?

Please give a good answer, you're at L-3
L-4, actually. I think Spiffy shouldn't be lynched, since he's made some great posts and none, in my opinion, suspicous (askaninjask's reasoning behind lynching spiffy, as I pointed out earlier, was pretty dumb). I also think Jalmont shouldn't be lynched, since his posts (especially the one on me) was very well thought out, if wrong. He definitely seems townie, at least to me he does. TPM appears to be an innocent townie, or just noobtownie, but I do't regard him as suspicous at all. The next question is more of a statement, but yeah, I don't think any of my posts have evidently benefited the town a great deal, but then again, neither have any of your posts, so that's a bit hypocritical. Your last question stumped me, simply because I don't really know who seems more scum. So I looked back at some of the posts they have made, and we had every reason to lynch Shining Latios on day 1. His posts, continuing from day 1, have been mainly just questions, and his reasoning in particular has been terrible, regarding the shinyskarmory lynch, as I pointed out in my previous post. This post, which gives the appearance of being a well-thought-out, or at least, a post which fuels discussion, is basically a copy of this post from earlier on. Hate to change my vote so soon, but

unvote
Vote Shining Latios

 
Oh, and in reply to Metal Sonic about me viewing the thread earlier but not posting, I woke up, checked the thread, found out that people were voting for me, but couldn't post my response seeing as I had a friend coming round in 10 minutes.
 

zorbees

Chwa for no reason!
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I'm getting pretty suspicious of Empoof. Obviously it could be an IRL issue, but he hasn't posted in over 36 hours, and still has yet to place a vote today. Now with the Eagle4 vote starting to pick up some steam, he could be hoping to fly under the radar while everybody focuses on other targets.

Speaking of Eagle4 though, I am not particularly pleased with his latest post. I'm not sure if it just reads this way to me, but it almost feels as if he isn't even trying to "think outside the box" and is only going for the more obvious lynch targets. Earlier, Spiffy accused me of only going after newer players, but Eagle4 is doing exactly that.

I will pose a question to you, Eagle4. Who do you think is most likely scum, out of the following users: Walrein, Lightwolf, Spiffy, askaninjask, zorbees, Jalmont, Empoof?
 
Votecount 2.8

Lynch:
Eagle4: (4) Jalmont shinyskarmory More Cowbell Metal Sonic L-3
Shining Latios: (2) shinyskarmory More Cowbell LightWolf Eagle4
Walrein: (2) Spiffy zorbees
shinyskarmory: (1) zorbees Shining Latios Eagle4
Spiffy: (1) askaninjask Walrein Metal Sonic zorbees
zorbees: (1) Spiffy TPM
Not Voting: (2) Empoof Walrein

Sentry:
askaninjask: (4) askaninjask Spiffy Metal Sonic Walrein
Jalmont: (2) Jalmont zorbees
LightWolf: (1) Spiffy TPM
shinyskarmory: (1) shinyskarmory
More Cowbell: (1) More Cowbell
zorbees: (1) Shining Latios
Spiffy: (1) Eagle4
Walrein: (0) Eagle4 askaninjask Walrein
Not Voting: (2) LightWolf, Empoof

With 13 alives it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in 42 hours, 2:00 PM GMT.

Empoof has been prodded.
LightWolf has been prodded.
 

Walrein

another dissatisfied customer
is a Community Contributor
Mafia Champion
@shinyskarmory: i suck at shen

@everyone: what are your thoughts on my spiffy analysis, and on spiffy in general?
 
Walrein said:
So we've established that no lynch = bad, but not scummy. Why, then, would Spiffy call it a scummy play, especially coming from the generally inexperienced ShinySkarmory and the first time NOCer (I think) LightWolf? It could be that he really does think that someone who votes for no lynch is more likely to be mafia, in which case he's rather misguided. However, it's also very feasible for Spiffy to be pushing some cheap suspicion upon other players and shift the discussion away from his teammates. Hell, maybe the mafia has no daychat and this is Spiffy telling his team "stahp, you're dumbasses". Either way, I really don't like this.
First of all, I think both shinyskarmory and LightWolf have played an NOC before on Smogon (I could be wrong) and since someone always brings up the idea of no lynching and the same explanation is given over and over again about it in every game I've read, they should know that that wasn't going to fly. I, as well as several other players, explained to them why no lynching was a bad idea, and shinyskarmory chose to continue supporting it with horrible logic so I voted for him.

Walrein said:
This argument is rather flimsy. Am I not allowed to have multiple scumreads at one time? So what if I feel that both Shining Latios and Metal Sonic are scum? There's 3 scum in the game IIRC (could be wrong, sue me if so), so having multiple scumreads can be quite beneficial.

Also, MS and SL aren't on opposite sides of a huge argument. They barely mentioned each other. This is a completely different dynamic than the US-Galladiator shitstorm (which was funny as hell btw).
The only purpose of this post was for you to have something to fallback on after we lynched SL and he came up town. You just want to escape being blamed for an SL mislynch by posting something like this. "Metal Sonic could be mafia too so we should lynch him if SL comes up town." This is awful logic. Shining Latios flipping town does not just call into question Metal Sonic, but everyone that was on the bandwagon. And even then, villagers obviously don't know when they're mislynching other villagers, so why would we immediately lynch Metal Sonic after SL flipped? We would reanalyze people's posts and choose the best lynch target, not just lynch the "other option" of Day 1. Why do you list just Metal Sonic as the one that would give the most information?
Walrein said:
Not what I said at all. My post was intended to say "Aska's posts are good and protown, but I wish he would be less inactive".

You also misinterpreted my post about Jalmont. It meant something along the lines of "Empoof makes a lot of joke posts [which is similar to myself sometimes], and I wish he could cut down on those, but when he's serious he has good insight."

These posts were not intended to cast suspicion on either of those players.
Eh, I still don't like the way you post your reads. I think your reads should be clear and concise, people shouldn't have to be guessing what you think after reading your read. You posting a positive and a negative about someone doesn't give us any insight to what you think of them overall.

Walrein said:
School happened, LoL happened, insert excuses here, but the bottom line is that real life happenings caused me to have less time to pay attention to the game. Thank god the weekend is coming up so I can get myself out of this mess ~_~
I understand you claim to be busy, but I'm less inclined to accept this as an argument for you since the last time you had IRL issues you were mafia...

After rereading the thread and focusing more on the newer players the only less experienced players that I would be willing to lynch are shinyskarmory and (to a MUCH lesser extent) Eagle4.
The bulk of shinyskarmory's posts come from "nolynch-gate" and as Jalmont stated earlier, and I admit, that really does not contribute much about your thoughts about people. And his constant (crappy...) questioning of people without sharing an opinion seems like he's trying to disguise this for regular contributions. Plus, he was on the Shining Latios bandwagon and frankly I've liked SL's Day 2 so far, and for the most part I didn't have much of a problem with SL's Day 1 so I think anyone on the SL bandwagon is a point against them.
I suspect Eagle4 slightly because of what Jalmont said about his posts being a whole lot of nothing, but he isn't really giving me the "New town trying to help" vibe I get from TPM and More Cowbell.

So my lynching priorites at this moment are:
Walrein>shinyskarmory>>>>>Eagle4>zorbees

zorbees I am cooling down on because I don't think he would just change his opinion on me after going after me all of Day 2 if he was mafia. His action of actually hopping off of the most supported lynch (first) makes me less suspicious of him.
 
Eagle4 said:
First off,
Unsentry Walrein
Sentry Spiffy

Yes, in one of my previous posts I mentioned that Walrein was a "basically confirmed townie" or something like that. Well, I guess Spiffy's post and a couple of others have convinced me otherwise. It's definitely not as clear cut for me as it is for Spiffy saying that Walrein is mafia, but he's definitely not as clean as I thought he was. Spiffy, on the other hand, has made good, solid posts (when pressured, might I add) with heavy details of reasoning. I was unsure on the whole "let's vote spiffy" charade, since I never suspected him as mafia, and I still don't. I thought one of the reasons for voting spiffy was pretty terrible; askaninjask's post saying that Spiffy was mafia because his posts are agressive is dumb; I would say that's the attribute of a determined town.

[other things]
I am trying to pinpoint the reason why I dislike this post so much. It's not the kind of post that would be made by someone who doesn't understand what's going on - he has somewhat legitimate reasoning behind his arguments. He doesn't at all acknowledge my post about him earlier, or zorbees's similar complaint. He is picking and choosing on what issues he wants to discuss, and the way in which he is discussing them is really weird as well. I said earlier I wasn't sure whether he was scum or just new, but this post makes me lean hard scum.

Eagle4, this is how you get my vote off of you: post lots, about every user you find even remotely suspicious. If you are village, this shouldn't be a problem for you, and if you're mafia, then we'll get tons of information about who you feel comfortable talking about.

unvote Spiffy
vote Eagle4
 
Spiffy's recent posts have been more argumentative, and I like that he is finally asserting himself and taking definitive sides in arguments. The fact that this didn't happen in Day 1 is still grounds for suspicion, but at least he is giving us information now.
 

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