The OP was talking about VGC.Nobody uses Scarf Salamence because it's awful in OU. If you're using a Scarfer, go with something like Greninja or Latios. You're really disregarding everything that makes Mega Salamence as absurdly powerful as it is, namely its set-up bulk, immense power, great Speed, awesome movepool and massive versatility.
Also, just what do you mean with 'the X on the top left'? I don't get it.
That's not how it works at all. Pokemon isn't set up linerally like XXXXX > YYYYYY > salamence > ZZZZZ >Here's what happens in your scenario:
Step 1: Anything more broken than Mega Salamence that was checking Mega Mence gets banned first for being broken (parallel: we banned Mega Lucario first and let Mega Mawile run free)
Step 2: Now Mega Salamence is the most broken mon in the tier because we banned his broken checks. (Parallel: we banned Mega Mawile after banning all of the more broken crap in the tier)
We'll just end up back where we started where now we have to consider banning Mega Mence
Considering the most common sets of each: (1vs1)How is MegaSharpedo as a MegaSalamence counter? I'd assume Speed Boost Sub/Protect vs Dragon Dance/Sub/Roost requires a certain level of prediction, but MSharpedo's Ice Fang hits way harder than Mamoswine's Ice Shard, and outspeeds at +1.
Sharpedo can't take a hit at all... It's not a counter. It's barely a revenge killer to be honest.How is MegaSharpedo as a MegaSalamence counter? I'd assume Speed Boost Sub/Protect vs Dragon Dance/Sub/Roost requires a certain level of prediction, but MSharpedo's Ice Fang hits way harder than Mamoswine's Ice Shard, and outspeeds at +1.
Shaymin's Sky form already got a unanimous ban vote a long time ago, so even that argument is out the window.The only reason why I would want a suspect test for Salamencite is to see whether or not we can get a unanimous ban vote. If anything were to get a vote spread of Ban: 70, Do Not Ban: 0, Abstain: 0, it's gonna be Mega Salamence since realistically, anything stronger than it probably wouldn't even get a test.
But realistically, if we don't want to try to make Smogon history for the most unbalanced vote pool, it's better to quickban in order to improve the meta as soon as possible. We've had a long month plus of Mega Salamence OU - I mean, ORAS OU, to see that this shouldn't be here.
It's an incredibly flimsy check at best, since it doesn't outspeed +1 mence after a single boost, and I'm not even gonna bother checking how hard it gets its teeth knocked in by literally any of Mence's attacks.How is MegaSharpedo as a MegaSalamence counter? I'd assume Speed Boost Sub/Protect vs Dragon Dance/Sub/Roost requires a certain level of prediction, but MSharpedo's Ice Fang hits way harder than Mamoswine's Ice Shard, and outspeeds at +1.
The issue isn't whether the broken crap can kill each other 1 v 1. Mega Zard X could wipe out Mega Lucario 1v1 and yet we banned Mega Luke. The issue is that broken crap leads to the meta overcentralizing around them, which is unhealthy. This isn't the place to go into detail about, but if you're not familiar with the term I'm sure you can find plenty of past threads or documents on the subject. It's undesirable in OU and adding more broken stuff to try and fix it is like introducing snakes to an environment to deal with a rat problem.That's not how it works at all. Pokemon isn't set up linerally like XXXXX > YYYYYY > salamence > ZZZZZ >
It's all about whether the pokemon that's currently in can prevent the opponent's switch from boosting then sweeping. In that regard, things like mawile and lucario can prevent it from boosting but would die in the process (having done their job). But if mence had actually gotten in first, he could already be at +1 and kill either of them. You could consider them equals because each one can basically ohko the other but none is the best, they're all completely different.
That's nice, but we'd like the meta be a little different than just Stall and M-Mence teams. Also, there are no mence counters for offense. There are checks, but most are shaky and/or easily worn down. We run frail stuff like Latios and Mamoswine because everything else is too weak to acutally check it. Offensive teams can't exactly fit Mega Bro or Mega Sableye either.I want to throw in the fact that stall is having absolutely no problems with mence and it is only a serious threat vs offensive teams. Stall is undeniably better than ever because mawile is banned, things like heracross is being completely suppressed, weak things like scarf landorus are everywhere, and between slowbro/sabeleye and options porygon/rhyperior/rotom/etc salamence is not really anyone's problem at all. He's only good against flimsy things like Latios and Mamoswine (who everyone seems to be stubbornly using instead of actually running a goddamn mence counter).
Aegislash and Genesect may not have been as overpowering as other bans, but they had their own issues. You should look at their respective suspect threads. Either way, you might as well jump on the quickban wagon because I seriously doubt we're unbanning anything anytime soon, and one new check/counter won't make magically make Mega Mence unbroken.With that out of the way, I seriously don't think he needs to be banned UNLESS nothing will ever be coming down from ubers. As far as I'm concerned things like aegislash and genesect would be more than welcome and serve a great purpose not only against mence but other things that are currently pretty troublesom. The tier can easily handle them at this point. Salamence would also have to share his throne if other extremely strong things like kangaskhan actually came down.
Mega Luke had competition with Mega Khan and Mega Gar. They got banned for being broken. Then Mega Mawile had to compete with Mega Luke. Mega Luke got banned for being broken. Everything else had to compete with Mega Mawile. Mega Mawile got banned for being broken. We know exactly what singles would look like if a previously banned mon were to come back and compete with Mega mence. We have historical evidence we can draw from to conclude what would happen if more broken crap were tossed into the meta.It's a very turbulent period! I don't think anyone can confidently say they have ANY idea what singles would look like if mence had competition with other megas.
Dragon STAB, Substitute, Facade, and/or a coverage move like Hydro Pump (or EQ) can nullify any of those. None of its defensive answers can kill it fast enough and none of its offensive answers have even a prayer of switching in.suspect test this shit, dont quickban.
thundy checks it since its immune to eq and come in on DD, and resists return, then hp ices or prankster twaves not giving a fuck about its boosts. mega slowbro isnt even 2hkoed by a +1 return to show you how pitfully weak mega mence is, then koes back with ice beam. mega mence is weak to SR and has a subpar base 100 speed when evolving, which limits surviablity and allows it to get picked off my faster threats like latias before it mega evolves.
ttar with ice beam is an universal counter to all mence sets, dd and mixed. zapdos with hp ice is a good answer for it as well. stall dgaf about mence, as cress, rhyperior, and even porygon2 are solid answers to it. im pretty sure stall would much rather face a mence than a mega sableye, for example.
weavile and mamo check even slightly weakened ones with priority, mega manectric and mega aerodactyl are also excellent checks to it, both resisting its STAB and doing massive damage in return. excadrill in sand also outspeeds, and rain teams that have kingdra/kabutops revenge mence even when its at +1, assuming an adamant nature.
i just named a whole bunch of viable checks to this off the top of my head, and they're all viable in OU. so its not like im saying use avalugg or something.
so yeah, suspect test this shit
thundy checks Rayquaza since its immune to eq and come in on DD, and Rayquaza probably maybe won't kill if rocks aren't up, then hp ices or prankster twaves not giving a fuck about its boosts. mega slowbro isnt even 2hkoed by a +1 Outrage to show you how pitfully weak Rayquaza is, then koes back with ice beam. Rayquaza is weak to SR and has a subpar base 95 speed , which limits surviablity and allows it to get picked off my faster threats like latias.
ttar with ice beam is an universal counter to all Rayquaza sets, dd and mixed. zapdos with hp ice is a good answer for it as well. stall dgaf about Rayquaza, as cress, rhyperior, and even porygon2 are solid answers to it. im pretty sure stall would much rather face a Rayquaza than a mega sableye, for example.
weavile and mamo check even slightly weakened ones with priority, mega manectric and mega aerodactyl are also excellent checks to it, both resisting its STAB and doing massive damage in return. excadrill in sand also outspeeds, and rain teams that have kingdra/kabutops revenge mence even when its at +1, assuming an adamant nature, because everybody knows that if you're playing offense it needs to be weather or you have to be able to keep Rayquaza from setting up 1 Dragon Dance.
i just named a whole bunch of viable checks to Rayquaza off the top of my head, and they're all viable in OU. so its not like im saying use avalugg or something.
so yeah,suspect test this shit
All of your checks get destroyed after one dragon dance/one sub, and/or gets bodied by a coverage move of mence's choice. This just justifies my statement on mence being to versatile and simply too strong for any of those "checks" to actually be checks. At least something which sets up (gyarados for example) can actually be stopped by several things. If mence sets up, it's near impossible to stop without a counter unless it's taken prior damage.suspect test this shit, dont quickban.
thundy checks it since its immune to eq and come in on DD, and resists return, then hp ices or prankster twaves not giving a fuck about its boosts. mega slowbro isnt even 2hkoed by a +1 return to show you how pitfully weak mega mence is, then koes back with ice beam. mega mence is weak to SR and has a subpar base 100 speed when evolving, which limits surviablity and allows it to get picked off my faster threats like latias before it mega evolves.
ttar with ice beam is an universal counter to all mence sets, dd and mixed. zapdos with hp ice is a good answer for it as well. stall dgaf about mence, as cress, rhyperior, and even porygon2 are solid answers to it. im pretty sure stall would much rather face a mence than a mega sableye, for example.
weavile and mamo check even slightly weakened ones with priority, mega manectric and mega aerodactyl are also excellent checks to it, both resisting its STAB and doing massive damage in return. excadrill in sand also outspeeds, and rain teams that have kingdra/kabutops revenge mence even when its at +1, assuming an adamant nature.
i just named a whole bunch of viable checks to this off the top of my head, and they're all viable in OU. so its not like im saying use avalugg or something.
so yeah, suspect test this shit
What is there to test with M-Mence? Does it have to 6-0 every team to be deemed broken? (Which it can easily do, all things considered) As for the subpar speed pre-mega evolving, it really isn't difficult for m mence to mega evolve in any given match. It truly isn't. Being rock-weak is a non-factor to mence because it has roost.suspect test this shit, dont quickban.
thundy checks it since its immune to eq and come in on DD, and resists return, then hp ices or prankster twaves not giving a fuck about its boosts. mega slowbro isnt even 2hkoed by a +1 return to show you how pitfully weak mega mence is, then koes back with ice beam. mega mence is weak to SR and has a subpar base 100 speed when evolving, which limits surviablity and allows it to get picked off my faster threats like latias before it mega evolves.
ttar with ice beam is an universal counter to all mence sets, dd and mixed. zapdos with hp ice is a good answer for it as well. stall dgaf about mence, as cress, rhyperior, and even porygon2 are solid answers to it. im pretty sure stall would much rather face a mence than a mega sableye, for example.
weavile and mamo check even slightly weakened ones with priority, mega manectric and mega aerodactyl are also excellent checks to it, both resisting its STAB and doing massive damage in return. excadrill in sand also outspeeds, and rain teams that have kingdra/kabutops revenge mence even when its at +1, assuming an adamant nature.
i just named a whole bunch of viable checks to this off the top of my head, and they're all viable in OU. so its not like im saying use avalugg or something.
so yeah, suspect test this shit