PLus side to that is that Chandelure won't be 1v1 against those mons and only hoopa pressures switch ins to a ridiculous degree
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celticpride
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I have a question for the health of the stall vs stall metagame
What beats ditto? I got burned/toxiced vs regen combo and most of the rest of my team got burned, but ditto+Pressure+saybeye,dugtrio, heatran ensured I couldn't be beat, and I only tryed ditto into order to beat other ditto spam teams and I really needed a choice scarf revenge pokemon that could wrap up the game
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-502073478
I won turn 401 when I got the first kill of the match
What beats ditto? I got burned/toxiced vs regen combo and most of the rest of my team got burned, but ditto+Pressure+saybeye,dugtrio, heatran ensured I couldn't be beat, and I only tryed ditto into order to beat other ditto spam teams and I really needed a choice scarf revenge pokemon that could wrap up the game
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-502073478
I won turn 401 when I got the first kill of the match
I'm completely lost how to even deal with grenija and I have mega sayabeye, 2 sash users and a choice scarf ditto.
one of these thing should be able to sometimes beat/revenge it
one of these thing should be able to sometimes beat/revenge it
It can't really take a hit, so most any neutral or SE hit from a dedicated attacker will KO it. Greninja is also one of those mons that you have to scout, because move-wise it's really hard to tell what it does or doesn't have (similar to hoopa-u or lando-i, but far less frightening). If ninja has u-turn, I don't see how scarf ditto isn't a guaranteed revenge kill if they stay in. Your shedinja very well may be able to handle some greninjas, as well. Dugtrio isn't an answer cause ninja will u-turn the first time to break the sash and then KO the second time. But mostly, that stall team you're using is not at all the bulkiest, and your only switch in is sab, so a strong, momentum-grabbing attacker that out-speeds your whole team is just gonna give you trouble.
Just a tiering question, will Battle Bond Greninja and Protean/Torrent Greninja be tiered differently/treated as separate entities? It's kind of a unique case.
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They are getting separate analyses in the Contributions and Corrections forum so it's likely that they will be considered individually should they be suspected.
Edit: Greninja was banned as a Pokémon last generation regardless of ability, but in this case, Ash-Greninja is similar to a Mega Evolution, and likely will be separated as such. An example is Mega Diancie in OU vs regular Diancie in RU last gen.
The difference tho is that in the case of most megas, the mega is tiered higher than the normal form.
If we consider ash-greninja to be like a mega, and we ban protean greninja, ash-greninja would also be banned from OU, similar to how MegaChomp or MegaLati@s were BL last gen and could never be considered for UU because the base form was OU. If protean ninja goes Uber and we follow the same logic, ash-greninja would also go uber even if it's absolute trash there. I don't think a complex ban on protean greninja would be accepted (slippery slope blaze blaziken all that), and a ban on protean as an ability could complicate things for NU (tbh i don't know their policy at all tho),
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Different Sylvally types will be tiered differently since the change happens before battle.
In general this meta is so Steel heavy that any good offensive Fire type with coverage is scary to deal with. Volcarona, Rotom-H, Bloom Doom Heatran, either MegaZard, Alola Marowak are all tricky to switch into, and similar logic applies to Chandy.
Been considering trying out Silvally but it seems like such a master-of-none. Like, it's not fast or strong enough to work without set-up. And it's got good bulk but no reliable recovery to give it longevity. How have you all been using it? And what types have been most successful? I would think Poison would be a decent type to roll with.
Try
Sylvallly steeel with sd/iron head/thunder fang/flame charge is a good set i used to run, its a pretty good wallbreaker and can definetly punch holes in enemy team.
Why did they make anything like Marshadow?
Why?
Its stats speak of game devs that know exactly what they were doing, but that can't be the case, because oh my god what are you doing.
Why?
Its stats speak of game devs that know exactly what they were doing, but that can't be the case, because oh my god what are you doing.
It's just an example, Ash Greninja isn't actually being considered as a mega. The important part is that they are being treated separately, whether it's Zard (base) v Zard (X) or Zard (X) v Zard (Y) as the example is not particularly relevant.
Marshadow strikes me as "okay, we nerfed Dark Void. Now let's make a Physical version of Darkrai."
It's more like a different forme. Ash-Greninja can only result from a Battle Bond Greninja, which by all rights has a different learnset, egg group, limited IVs, ability access, etc. There's no way to turn a "normal" Protean Greninja into Ash-Greninja, whereas every mon of a species with a Mega Form can become said Mega Form. The player does not technically have control over when BB becomes Ash-Greninja the way they do with the Mega Button (with Mega Evolving being a free action), and once changed it doesn't revert.
Gamefreak employee #1: Guys remember when we created Meloetta Pirouette?
Gamefreak employee #2: Yes, that mon is so broken, lets make it usable
And thats how they create BM-03, a group of 3 broken mon consisting of Mega Loppuny, Meloetta Piroiuette, and Marshadow who works the exact same way because fuck creativity and interesting movepool and stats when you can make braindead fast physical 120 BP spammer with Ice coverage for the billionth time
Shitposting aside, lately i've been facing against some BB Greninja and really i can't think off any other mon in the meta right now that is as troublesome as that(aside from Stall match up). Even before transforming, it hits surprisingly hard because of how powerful Hydro Pump is to begin with, and post transformation, Water Shuriken become essentially Technician Boosted Priority off 153 Special Attack which is extremely good
It would be somewhat funny if BB vs Protean ended up being separated and somehow both got banned because lol
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I haven't really been using Z moves all that much, but I will say that Z-Hypnosis Xuriktree is easily one of my favorite mid to late game sweepers to use. Instead of running it with Tail Glow, I used Thunder with a Politoed, and energy ball, and it's all it needs to sweep a team. One he gets +1 SpA and +1 Spe, he's ready to completely annihilate opposing teams.
Here's a replay, but my opponent's team isn't very good mind you: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-503643552
Here's a replay, but my opponent's team isn't very good mind you: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-503643552
How do people currently feel about phemso? At first it and a few other mons were written off as broken when it could take 1-2 weak hits and lele could patch up priority holes.
I think there are better late game cleaners just in terms of coverage or banded extreme speed. And for it to beat it's bad match-ups it has to generally run a wacky lure which I have done a few and won't knock running air balloon just for the free switch ins if heatran is on Your team.
It's top tier but managed I think
I think there are better late game cleaners just in terms of coverage or banded extreme speed. And for it to beat it's bad match-ups it has to generally run a wacky lure which I have done a few and won't knock running air balloon just for the free switch ins if heatran is on Your team.
It's top tier but managed I think
Yeah, I agree. Pheromosa isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I think just about everyone expected it to be broken post-aegislash but after playing against it, using it myself, and watching other people use it. I've basically come to the conclusion that it's not as good as people. It sounds great on paper as a huge threat, but in practice it often fails to really meet expectations unlike Landorus-I, Aegislash or Zygarde-C. I'm sure CrashinBoomBang has plenty to say on this matter so if he wants to chime in, I'll let him go further into detail on this. Honestly, it's really just a matter of people adapting to it because there are plenty of ways to deal with it without compromising your team.
Phero is managable, and I don't see much of her anymore anyway. Genesect on the other hand just punches holes in everything unless you're running a fire type to threaten it, one that can take a hit and come back swinging if need be mind you.
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