Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

[Aramian]

Worldshaper
All "map effects" have no duration(last until an effect ends them).
So stuff like weather, terrains, gravity, trick room, magic room, and so forth...
All effects that currently cannot be ended by an effect can end if the move is used again(trick room twice ends it)
Same other clauses as OU.
Maybe ban speed doublers just like gen 5 competitive, but other than that the idea is to have a metagame with lots of map control and mind games with moves and abilities that usually don't see much play.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Been thinking about this one for a while, would love to know some thoughts on it before I submit it next gen.

Megascale i'm not crazy about this name if you have a better idea lmk
What if Mix and Mega was approached like Scalemons?

Premise: Every Pokemon's base stats, with the exception of HP, is scaled to give them an approximate BST of 100 above their own, mimicking the stat gains of a Mega Evolution. Any recalculated stats are rounded down, meaning some BSTs will not gain exactly 100. This is done using this formula:

Stat * ((BST + 100) - HP) / (BST - HP)​

For example, Nidoking would go from 81 / 102 / 77 / 85 / 75 / 85 with a BST of 505 to 81 / 126 / 95 / 105 / 92 / 105 with a BST of 604 with this set of calculations:

Atk: 102 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 126.06 = 126
Def: 77 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 95.16 = 95
SpA: 85 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 105.04 = 105
SpD: 75 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 92.69 = 92
Spe: 85 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 105.04 = 105


Potential Threats and Bans:

Pokemon with high BSTs, one or two stand-out stats, or both of these traits benefit most. For instance, Kartana's attack shoots up to an appalling 216, while Latios and Garchomp have BSTs that rival the most powerful Ubers.

Defensive Pokemon can still do well with these raised stats, and offer good answers to a very powerful metagame. Just how good these Pokemon are would require testing; This could be either a balance/BO centered meta or a very offensive one, depending on how good defensive tools like these are.

Pokemon would still be able to use regular items, similar to Scalemons. This gives defensive Pokemon even more longevity, and offensive Pokemon even more power.

Potential Nerfs:

Eleki gains so much speed (a whopping 40 points) that it doesn't become much stronger, and wastes 20 of its points on still meager bulk.

Pokemon with balanced stat spreads don't gain as much relative to other Pokemon. Gaining 15 points to each stat barring HP is nice, but in a very strong and fast metagame like this, it's not impressive.

Community Questions:

Should this be an Ubers or OU based meta? If it's Uber based, should Box Legendaries be exempt? If it's OU based, is it worth dropping any Ubers.

How should Pokemon that change form mid-battle be addressed? Should they use their original stats or should the calculation be reapplied?

Should recalculated stats incredibly close to the next whole number be rounded up, to bring the total closer to BST+100?

Would Terestal (or Dynamax, if playing in gen 8) be overwhelming? How should these things interact with the stat calculation?

please does anyone have a better name

As it stands what this metagame does is reduce the impact HP has on stats, making everything marginally frailer. I don't see any other benefit to it. Unlike Scalemons it doesn't equalize Pokémon. Unlike Mix and Mega it keeps Pokemon's niches and stat spreads similar to how they started.

Overall this really falls under the commonly rejected category.

My formula is not complex: OM concepts that use formulas to calculate Pokemon stats.

We just have enough of these and would prefer to develop the ones we have. :/

Worldshaper
All "map effects" have no duration(last until an effect ends them).
So stuff like weather, terrains, gravity, trick room, magic room, and so forth...
All effects that currently cannot be ended by an effect can end if the move is used again(trick room twice ends it)
Same other clauses as OU.
Maybe ban speed doublers just like gen 5 competitive, but other than that the idea is to have a metagame with lots of map control and mind games with moves and abilities that usually don't see much play.

So first things first
You need 20 (quality) posts in the OM forums minimum before we will consider you to host an OM. This is primarily so we don't have people who have one great idea but no real plan to commit to the community long-term. Not to insinuate anything against you personally, it's just our policy, and we do stick to it rather vigorously.

As for the OM itself...
My first thought was that the OM would be broken as fuck, with Tailwind and Trick Room and Weather all being absurdly OP. But thinking about it the entire concept is about being prepared for all of these archetypes, so it may be fun and interesting to play. The main thing I worry about is that too much would be broken, and have to be banned. If that happened the metagame would turn into OU with fewer playstyles and potentially more complex bans, which we generally try to avoid.

I would like more input on what the competitive side of it might look like from others tbh. How different field effects and combinations of field effects match up against each other, and what would likely be overwhelming.

Also the mascot for this meta definitely needs to be Gastrodon, the check to Rain, Eterrain, Sun, a slow-ass mon that can be used in Trick Room if necessary... or you could use the Tapus I guess but Gastrodon is cooler. That's just me though :3

 

[KaenSoul]

Worldshaper
All "map effects" have no duration(last until an effect ends them).
So stuff like weather, terrains, gravity, trick room, magic room, and so forth...
All effects that currently cannot be ended by an effect can end if the move is used again(trick room twice ends it)
Same other clauses as OU.
Maybe ban speed doublers just like gen 5 competitive, but other than that the idea is to have a metagame with lots of map control and mind games with moves and abilities that usually don't see much play.

I like the idea, but balancing it sounds very hard, may banning all the weather/terrain setter abilities (Misty is whatever tho) would be a good start, so people have to actually click the buttons before getting out of control in a good match up. Anyway, the non-weather/terrain effects that would work should be the following, right?

Tailwind/Trick Room:
Most battles will start with both players trying to set up one of those, speed control goes hard in this tier, it will be very chaotic and fun to watch.

Gravity:
We all know how this combos with low accuracy moves like Zap Cannon/Inferno/Dynamic Punch, Lovely Kiss/Hypnosis/Sing, on top of making Ground-types broken, it may get out of control quite easily.

Magic Room:
This disables all items, may be fun on hazard stack teams, Azelf, Klefki, Mew and Araquanid could use this.

Wonder Room:
This swaps Def and SpD, not sure what could use it, maybe to get around some defensive cores or by defensive teams to adapt better to the remaning opponents or something.

And I think those would be all of them? Unless they add more in SV. Taunt seems very important in this tier.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Do Tailwind and Screens even count as map effects? They only affect one side of the field, which is different from the examples given of weathers, terrains, and rooms.

Weather Rocks and Terrain Extender are now useless, so Pelipper and Torkoal can run Heavy-Duty Boots instead.

Running Trick Room on non-Trick-Room offensive teams seems like it'd be a good idea, just to undo it if the opponent sets it up.

Mud Sport might finally see some use. Water Sport faces competition from Rain, though unlike Rain, Water Sport can't be overwritten with another weather.

They only last a single turn normally, but do Ion Deluge and Fairy Lock count as map effects? Ion Deluge could be fun for stuff like Quick Attack Luxray, and Fairy Lock would absolutely need to be banned.

 

[prunyy]

Been thinking about this one for a while, would love to know some thoughts on it before I submit it next gen.

Megascale i'm not crazy about this name if you have a better idea lmk
What if Mix and Mega was approached like Scalemons?

Premise: Every Pokemon's base stats, with the exception of HP, is scaled to give them an approximate BST of 100 above their own, mimicking the stat gains of a Mega Evolution. Any recalculated stats are rounded down, meaning some BSTs will not gain exactly 100. This is done using this formula:

Stat * ((BST + 100) - HP) / (BST - HP)​

For example, Nidoking would go from 81 / 102 / 77 / 85 / 75 / 85 with a BST of 505 to 81 / 126 / 95 / 105 / 92 / 105 with a BST of 604 with this set of calculations:

Atk: 102 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 126.06 = 126
Def: 77 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 95.16 = 95
SpA: 85 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 105.04 = 105
SpD: 75 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 92.69 = 92
Spe: 85 * ((505 + 100) - 81) / (505 - 81) = 105.04 = 105


Potential Threats and Bans:

Pokemon with high BSTs, one or two stand-out stats, or both of these traits benefit most. For instance, Kartana's attack shoots up to an appalling 216, while Latios and Garchomp have BSTs that rival the most powerful Ubers.

Defensive Pokemon can still do well with these raised stats, and offer good answers to a very powerful metagame. Just how good these Pokemon are would require testing; This could be either a balance/BO centered meta or a very offensive one, depending on how good defensive tools like these are.

Pokemon would still be able to use regular items, similar to Scalemons. This gives defensive Pokemon even more longevity, and offensive Pokemon even more power.

Potential Nerfs:

Eleki gains so much speed (a whopping 40 points) that it doesn't become much stronger, and wastes 20 of its points on still meager bulk.

Pokemon with balanced stat spreads don't gain as much relative to other Pokemon. Gaining 15 points to each stat barring HP is nice, but in a very strong and fast metagame like this, it's not impressive.

Community Questions:

Should this be an Ubers or OU based meta? If it's Uber based, should Box Legendaries be exempt? If it's OU based, is it worth dropping any Ubers.

How should Pokemon that change form mid-battle be addressed? Should they use their original stats or should the calculation be reapplied?

Should recalculated stats incredibly close to the next whole number be rounded up, to bring the total closer to BST+100?

Would Terestal (or Dynamax, if playing in gen 8) be overwhelming? How should these things interact with the stat calculation?

please does anyone have a better name

I like the basic idea, but it just seems like scalemons, but you are going 100+ BST rather than 600.

I have a couple ideas to make this more distinct from scalemons and mix and megas.
1. Like KaenSoul mentioned, remove the use of items while being able to mega evolve. Mix and Mega is an ubers based meta so I don’t see why this shouldn’t be as well. This gives an option, whether you want the benefits of an item, or 100+ BST.
2. Maybe make this AAA as well, although that might be considered a mashup (?). This really brings home the “Mega” part of Megascale or whatever you end up calling it. This lets every pokemon basically have a custom mega. Or maybe change the type, as some megas do that.
3. You could try to skew the 100+ BST into one stat of choice, rather than every stat going up a certain percentage, although this is probably pet mod territory. Also I don’t think the OM leaders like it when OMs have a complicated formula.

Basically, what I’m trying to say is to find a way to make Megascale less bland, and instead, a more exciting OM with interesting strategies and innovations.

As for your questions:

I think it should me an Ubers metagame. The BSTs of some pokemon will be bumped to levels of ubers, so it seems alright.

Most form changes usually buff stats, so I think either removing form changes, or keeping the original will make it balanced.

I dont see any problems with rounding, so that’s up to you. I feel like having whole number stats would be nice though.

I’m not sure about terastalization as we don’t have the games out yet, but if this were in Gen 8, dynamax would definitely be banned. The power level is just too huge and the dynamaxed pokemon will just be nuking everything.

 

[PQRDG]

So I don't know for sure how effective of an OM this would be, but I have an idea for one that could be really cool with the concepts we seem to be looking at for Gen 9.

Tera-Forming!

The concept would run on the following premise: at the end of the turn, the Pokemon on each side of the field will Terastalize. However, the type they Terastalize into will be completely random. This event happening at the end of the turn ensures that both players are able to plan their turn with the information in front of them, instead of having to hope that the opponent doesn't change into a type immune to whatever you are going for.

While we don't fully know how the Terastalization will work in the new games just yet, for this format the Pokemon will return to its original typing once it returns to the party. This allows you to take advantage of a Pokemon's initial defensive typing as they switch into an opposing Pokemon's attack, and then become a new type as the turn ends.

I could probably have more to say about this as a concept once the Gen 9 games come out, but at the moment I think that this could be an interesting, and somewhat unique, game to play in the new generation.

 

[prunyy]

Worldshaper
All "map effects" have no duration(last until an effect ends them).
So stuff like weather, terrains, gravity, trick room, magic room, and so forth...
All effects that currently cannot be ended by an effect can end if the move is used again(trick room twice ends it)
Same other clauses as OU.
Maybe ban speed doublers just like gen 5 competitive, but other than that the idea is to have a metagame with lots of map control and mind games with moves and abilities that usually don't see much play.

flashbacks to gen5 weather wars
The Gen 5 weather wars were honestly one of my favorite times, so I would definitely enjoy this OM. The only problem would be balancing it too much making it unfun.

The things that seem most overpowered are weather and terrain setting abilities. I feel like a turn should be wasted in setting a weather and terrain just to make this more balanced. Also banning the abilities that increase speed under certain weather like in Gen 5.

Tailwind seems overly broken so that definitely needs a ban. Every team would basically run tailwind and it will negate the effect, causing a precious moveslot on every team. I don’t know if tailwind counts as a map effects as it only affects one side.

Trick Room looks really strong, buffing slow mons for the rest of the game. Some teams might even have to run trick room just to counter opposing other trick room.

Magic Room permanently disabling items also looks really good. It can definitely change the way the game plays out.

Gravity is busted af, with the extra accuracy and ground moves hitting everything, it’s sure to be used in a ton of teams. It might even need a ban, but not sure.

Prankster and taunt are super duper important. Being able to set something up with priority or completely negate something else is very essential to the OM and can completely change the outcome.

I’m not sure if you want stuff like mud sport or ion deluge to have an effect, so that’s up to you. Maybe they can gain some users in this OM.

Do screens count? Even if they do, its banned for the same logic as tailwind.

Those are all my thoughts and ideas. This OM seems fun but might also be absurdly unbalanced.

 

[Nate_allen]

Idea: game mode that lets you use 2 items on each Pokémon.
Rule 1- Choice items cannot be paired
Rule 2- Life Orb can not be paired with Choice items

 

[Isaiah]

Idea: game mode that lets you use 2 items on each Pokémon.
Rule 1- Choice items cannot be paired
Rule 2- Life Orb can not be paired with Choice items

Dual Wielding is already an OM

 

[prunyy]

So I don't know for sure how effective of an OM this would be, but I have an idea for one that could be really cool with the concepts we seem to be looking at for Gen 9.

Tera-Forming!

The concept would run on the following premise: at the end of the turn, the Pokemon on each side of the field will Terastalize. However, the type they Terastalize into will be completely random. This event happening at the end of the turn ensures that both players are able to plan their turn with the information in front of them, instead of having to hope that the opponent doesn't change into a type immune to whatever you are going for.

While we don't fully know how the Terastalization will work in the new games just yet, for this format the Pokemon will return to its original typing once it returns to the party. This allows you to take advantage of a Pokemon's initial defensive typing as they switch into an opposing Pokemon's attack, and then become a new type as the turn ends.

I could probably have more to say about this as a concept once the Gen 9 games come out, but at the moment I think that this could be an interesting, and somewhat unique, game to play in the new generation.

This honestly does not sound any fun to play. Relying on RNG EVERY turn sounds really annoying to do. Although you do get to react as it changes at the end of the turn, it still feels too random for an OM. Maybe this is more suited for a twist on random battles. Any metagame with too much RNG does not seem well suited for an OM, maybe a random battle format.

For your clarification, you do keep your tera type after you switch out, and this official information. The description says you keep it for the whole battle, so that means you keep it even if you switch.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Crimemons
Pokemon in your own party have grown greedy, and have stolen traits from all your other Pokemon! You bring 4 Pokemon to the game, which steal the Items, Secondary Typings, Abilities, and 4th moves of your Pokemon respectively.
The Pokemon in your first slot stole every item, so it can hold up to 4 items at once, but none of your other Pokemon get to use theirs.
Your secondary Pokemon stole all the Types- secondary, that is. This Pokemon is an abomination with up to 5 types, though leaving your other Pokemon with just 1 type. (is this codable?).
Your 3rd Pokemon stole every ability! This Pokemon is very skilled with 4 Abilities, but none of your other Pokemon have anything to show there.
Your 4th Pokemon stole every 4th move of your other Pokemon, leaving it with up to 7 moves but your other Pokemon only get 3 each.

To clarify, all of this is set in the builder, you will not be able to change the order these get applied in tea preview. This is to give some more knowledge to the opponent to make it more fun to play against.
You would build your team as you normally do, not having to add extra moves of types in it.

Questions:
I really wanted to make this 6v6, but dont see a viable way to do that with the meta's theme. Is there any way to?
How fun does this look? Each Pokemon gets quite a lot taken from them, but in turn gets something they're very good at.
Is this codable?
Balanced? 3 of your Pokemon have no items, no abilities, and no secondary type, so the game seems as though it may be straightforward at times.

 

[prunyy]

Crimemons
Pokemon in your own party have grown greedy, and have stolen traits from all your other Pokemon! You bring 4 Pokemon to the game, which steal the Items, Secondary Typings, Abilities, and 4th moves of your Pokemon respectively.
The Pokemon in your first slot stole every item, so it can hold up to 4 items at once, but none of your other Pokemon get to use theirs.
Your secondary Pokemon stole all the Types- secondary, that is. This Pokemon is an abomination with up to 5 types, though leaving your other Pokemon with just 1 type. (is this codable?).
Your 3rd Pokemon stole every ability! This Pokemon is very skilled with 4 Abilities, but none of your other Pokemon have anything to show there.
Your 4th Pokemon stole every 4th move of your other Pokemon, leaving it with up to 7 moves but your other Pokemon only get 3 each.

To clarify, all of this is set in the builder, you will not be able to change the order these get applied in tea preview. This is to give some more knowledge to the opponent to make it more fun to play against.
You would build your team as you normally do, not having to add extra moves of types in it.

Questions:
I really wanted to make this 6v6, but dont see a viable way to do that with the meta's theme. Is there any way to?
How fun does this look? Each Pokemon gets quite a lot taken from them, but in turn gets something they're very good at.
Is this codable?
Balanced? 3 of your Pokemon have no items, no abilities, and no secondary type, so the game seems as though it may be straightforward at times.

At first I thought this was basically Chimera 1v1, but upon reading it a second time, I noticed the differences. I would like to mention that you made it so the team order can’t change. Although I thought it was a bad idea at first, this forces the pokemon with the items to come out first which isn’t ideal.

This meta seems very interesting…

The pokemon in the first slot looks obnoxiously strong, as it can carry life orb, choice scarf, choice band/specs, AND something else, with no drawbacks. My worry is that this pokemon will just 4-0 any team, and it’s just a game of who’s faster. Not fun.

The second pokemon feels really weird to play with and against. Having up to 5 types means that “coverage moves” will basically be stab, but with only 3 moves, this limits its options. This could be a good check against the first pokemon by having a lot of resistances and immunities, but it’s just another 4-0 if it doesn’t have a defensive type against the first pokemon. I wonder what abominations could be made with 5 types, having it resist all types and a ton of immunities. Terastalizing this pokemon in generation 9 could be super weird as well.

The third pokemon looks like the midgame/endgame of a shared power game. Definitely need to ban those speed boosting abilities under weather. I feel like the shared power ban list of abilities will do the trick to balance this. I don’t have much else to say about this slot.

The fourth pokemon with 7 moves has the inverse problem as the second pokemon; in this case it would be that almost no pokemon has 7 coverage moves, but I’m sure not all would be attacking moves.
Speaking of that, this pokemon could fullfil these possible roles: entry hazard (1), hazard control (1), cleric/wish (1), item removal (1), setup sweepers (2+), priority (1+), walls (2+), and pivots (2+). In parentheses I labeled the average moves needed to satisfy such a role. Bold is utility, italic is offensive, and underline is defensive. I labled it this way because nobody is going to run both an offensive and a defensive pokemon because of the stats required. Utility can be paired with defensive roles quite well, but offensive might be a stretch.
The reason why I mention this is because this fourth pokemon could run around 4-5 of these options and still thrive. Sure there is no item or ability, but thats not stopping this thing from becoming an absolute unit.

As for your questions,

I think 4 pokemon is enough. I don’t want this to become something like Chimera 1v1 or Partners In Crime where a lot more time is needed in teambuilding rather than actual playing. This usually lowers the amount of new people who play this meta, and might walk away thinking its too complex with 6 pokemon. If you really wanted 6 pokemon you could do item, secondary type, ability, stats (?), second move, fourth move.

I don’t know, nobody knows.

I’m honestly not sure why you ask this. There have been wackier OMs than this. If your main problem is having 5 types, look at Forest’s Curse and Trick Or Treat. These moves work perfectly fine, so I’m not sure what the problem is.

I discussed what I think about each slot. I feel like it could be balanced at this state, but the fourth slot and especially the first slot might need to be toned down somehow.

Also the name sounds kinda cringe sorry. It just doesn’t have the catch to it.
Maybe something like “Greedymons” or “Unholy Foursome” this sounds kinda cringe as well tbh.

 

[KaenSoul]

Crimemons
Pokemon in your own party have grown greedy, and have stolen traits from all your other Pokemon! You bring 4 Pokemon to the game, which steal the Items, Secondary Typings, Abilities, and 4th moves of your Pokemon respectively.
The Pokemon in your first slot stole every item, so it can hold up to 4 items at once, but none of your other Pokemon get to use theirs.
Your secondary Pokemon stole all the Types- secondary, that is. This Pokemon is an abomination with up to 5 types, though leaving your other Pokemon with just 1 type. (is this codable?).
Your 3rd Pokemon stole every ability! This Pokemon is very skilled with 4 Abilities, but none of your other Pokemon have anything to show there.
Your 4th Pokemon stole every 4th move of your other Pokemon, leaving it with up to 7 moves but your other Pokemon only get 3 each.

To clarify, all of this is set in the builder, you will not be able to change the order these get applied in tea preview. This is to give some more knowledge to the opponent to make it more fun to play against.
You would build your team as you normally do, not having to add extra moves of types in it.

Questions:
I really wanted to make this 6v6, but dont see a viable way to do that with the meta's theme. Is there any way to?
How fun does this look? Each Pokemon gets quite a lot taken from them, but in turn gets something they're very good at.
Is this codable?
Balanced? 3 of your Pokemon have no items, no abilities, and no secondary type, so the game seems as though it may be straightforward at times.

Not really sure about this one.
I think it would be better if it was 3v3, leave types out of this as they make this too complex to build. Also, reducing the team size lowers the overall powerlevel as you are only receiving 3 items/abilities/moves instead of 4, that should help a lot with balance.
It is quite hard to imagine how the tier will turn out to be, but it has a good chance to be fun and is quite unique.

 

[Ema Skye]

We ran this in Pet Mods last gen and it was really cool (it was NatDex based). But with a new gen starting soon, I wanted to sub it to an OM as it works better here.

Dex Reversal (name is still a WIP)

The premise of this mod is that PokeDex order is reversed to determine base stat total. Moves, typing and abilities stay the same. For example, PokeDex #001 swaps with #400, #002 swaps with #399 and so on. I have a spreadsheet detailing all the swaps for Scarlet and Violet, which would be the format it uses. I won't post it yet because of spoilers. Pokemon without a dex number, such as something that is transfer only, does not switch with anything.

Forme changes are applied using mix and mega rules (the base form inherits new stats and the form change bonuses are then applied to it). So, as an example, Giratina-O would use the new stat spread Giratina-I has, but it gets +20 Atk/SpA and -20 Def/SpD because those are the differences of its forme change..

It's intentionally designed to be simple but it can completely reinvent Pokemon. For example, in our Gen 8 NatDex version, Gastrodon swapped with Dialga and gave us an insane mixed wall, Froakie/Frogadier/Greninja swapped with Lugia/Ho-oh/Tyranitar to create three huge defensive pivots and Shiinotic swapped with Mewtwo to create the format's strongest offensive threat.

 

[prunyy]

We ran this in Pet Mods last gen and it was really cool (it was NatDex based). But with a new gen starting soon, I wanted to sub it to an OM as it works better here.

Dex Reversal (name is still a WIP)

The premise of this mod is that PokeDex order is reversed to determine base stat total. Moves, typing and abilities stay the same. For example, PokeDex #001 swaps with #400, #002 swaps with #399 and so on. I have a spreadsheet detailing all the swaps for Scarlet and Violet, which would be the format it uses. I won't post it yet because of spoilers. Pokemon without a dex number, such as something that is transfer only, does not switch with anything.

Forme changes are applied using mix and mega rules (the base form inherits new stats and the form change bonuses are then applied to it). So, as an example, Giratina-O would use the new stat spread Giratina-I has, but it gets +20 Atk/SpA and -20 Def/SpD because those are the differences of its forme change..

It's intentionally designed to be simple but it can completely reinvent Pokemon. For example, in our Gen 8 NatDex version, Gastrodon swapped with Dialga and gave us an insane mixed wall, Froakie/Frogadier/Greninja swapped with Lugia/Ho-oh/Tyranitar to create three huge defensive pivots and Shiinotic swapped with Mewtwo to create the format's strongest offensive threat.

Apparently this has seen success as a pet mod, so I don’t see why not. I feel like some weird pokemon are gonna get some good stats. I personally don’t think I will enjoy this, but why not.

i hope wooper gets a good dex reversal

 

[urkerab]

I would like to mention that you made it so the team order can’t change. Although I thought it was a bad idea at first, this forces the pokemon with the items to come out first which isn’t ideal.

How I understood it is that unlike Chimera where changing the order changes the way the final chimera is built, here the four team members have their items/types/abilities/moves rearranged before team preview. (I suspect you won't be able to see the added items/types/abilities during the battle, but at least the moves will show up correctly.)

 

[Yveltal for PU]

How I understood it is that unlike Chimera where changing the order changes the way the final chimera is built, here the four team members have their items/types/abilities/moves rearranged before team preview. (I suspect you won't be able to see the added items/types/abilities during the battle, but at least the moves will show up correctly.)

Yes, its more akin to how Godly Gift works is what I meant, sorry for any confusion.

Not really sure about this one.
I think it would be better if it was 3v3, leave types out of this as they make this too complex to build. Also, reducing the team size lowers the overall powerlevel as you are only receiving 3 items/abilities/moves instead of 4, that should help a lot with balance.
It is quite hard to imagine how the tier will turn out to be, but it has a good chance to be fun and is quite unique.

Yeah it does seem really hard to balance either way xD
I think types could still work, but I do understand how that can seem to complicate teambuilding. Probably more complicated than the others as types are pretty complicated the more you have at once, but I dunno, it could work still. The main issue I think would be with teambuilding this is acknowledging and building with all the different roles that are almost forced onto different Pokemon as a result of their position, even moreso than Godly Gift.

At first I thought this was basically Chimera 1v1, but upon reading it a second time, I noticed the differences. I would like to mention that you made it so the team order can’t change. Although I thought it was a bad idea at first, this forces the pokemon with the items to come out first which isn’t ideal.

This meta seems very interesting…

The pokemon in the first slot looks obnoxiously strong, as it can carry life orb, choice scarf, choice band/specs, AND something else, with no drawbacks. My worry is that this pokemon will just 4-0 any team, and it’s just a game of who’s faster. Not fun.

The second pokemon feels really weird to play with and against. Having up to 5 types means that “coverage moves” will basically be stab, but with only 3 moves, this limits its options. This could be a good check against the first pokemon by having a lot of resistances and immunities, but it’s just another 4-0 if it doesn’t have a defensive type against the first pokemon. I wonder what abominations could be made with 5 types, having it resist all types and a ton of immunities. Terastalizing this pokemon in generation 9 could be super weird as well.

The third pokemon looks like the midgame/endgame of a shared power game. Definitely need to ban those speed boosting abilities under weather. I feel like the shared power ban list of abilities will do the trick to balance this. I don’t have much else to say about this slot.

The fourth pokemon with 7 moves has the inverse problem as the second pokemon; in this case it would be that almost no pokemon has 7 coverage moves, but I’m sure not all would be attacking moves.
Speaking of that, this pokemon could fullfil these possible roles: entry hazard (1), hazard control (1), cleric/wish (1), item removal (1), setup sweepers (2+), priority (1+), walls (2+), and pivots (2+). In parentheses I labeled the average moves needed to satisfy such a role. Bold is utility, italic is offensive, and underline is defensive. I labled it this way because nobody is going to run both an offensive and a defensive pokemon because of the stats required. Utility can be paired with defensive roles quite well, but offensive might be a stretch.
The reason why I mention this is because this fourth pokemon could run around 4-5 of these options and still thrive. Sure there is no item or ability, but thats not stopping this thing from becoming an absolute unit.

As for your questions,

I think 4 pokemon is enough. I don’t want this to become something like Chimera 1v1 or Partners In Crime where a lot more time is needed in teambuilding rather than actual playing. This usually lowers the amount of new people who play this meta, and might walk away thinking its too complex with 6 pokemon. If you really wanted 6 pokemon you could do item, secondary type, ability, stats (?), second move, fourth move.

I don’t know, nobody knows.

I’m honestly not sure why you ask this. There have been wackier OMs than this. If your main problem is having 5 types, look at Forest’s Curse and Trick Or Treat. These moves work perfectly fine, so I’m not sure what the problem is.

I discussed what I think about each slot. I feel like it could be balanced at this state, but the fourth slot and especially the first slot might need to be toned down somehow.

Also the name sounds kinda cringe sorry. It just doesn’t have the catch to it.
Maybe something like “Greedymons” or “Unholy Foursome” this sounds kinda cringe as well tbh.

A lot of this is good. After thinking a little bit more, I can definitely agree that the 1st mon is very powerful, but this could also be said of the 3rd mon both offensively and defensively. Theres better tools on the Ability side of things for defensive play than items give, comparatively at least. 3rd mon can still easily run something like Tough Claws, Adaptability, Sheer Force, and Filler. But could conversely have Fur Coat, Regenerator, Magic Guard and Filler/immunity ability. This and types are also the hardest to build for, Id think, as youre more limited in the mons you can have on your team when considering these Pokemon.
2nd has the ability to be a defensive behemoth as well. Up to 5 types but only 3 moves means you only get a limited number of STAB, so you may as well try and coordinate the others, or even all, defensively. This Pokemon could be a Ghost/Steel/Flying/Ground/Fairy Pokemon, giving it some fairly strong resistances, likely STAB in any 3 slots if it wishes, and 6 total Immunities, wiping out a third of the game. This might not even be the most optimal setup either as it still has some notable weaknesses, but is concerning at the least. This actually somewhat makes me rethink having the types, not necessarily because it is hard to build with- but 6 immunities is kind of cracked, Id think moreso than having 4 items, 4 Abilities, and 7 moves is. That said, it also has no ability, no item, and only 3 moves, so it could end up being fairly passive to some degree. Immunities to various other elements such as Sand, Poison, Powder moves, and Prankster is also worth thought.
As for the last mon, this one at least appears the weakest, but might have some stronger staying power as a result of actually having the pp to do so. Having all these options means it could more effectively have weapons against other pokemon, so while I personally think this is the weakest, it definitely is strong.
I am down to consider removing rhe type slot, making it 3v3, but would like other people's input too :)

 

[Turtlek]

Kind Gift:
Metagame premise:
You pick do not pick your Pokemon! In fact, you choose 3 of the opponent's and he takes the others. You can't see abilities and movesets, so you have to guess if the opponent has chosen good sets or not. A half of this meta resids in teambuild. With this team:
---:--
Your opponent may choose Timburr, because if it has Mach Punch, it'll be very strong. But, Timburr may not have Mach Punch! So you have to think inside your opponent's teambuild and guess their sets.

Example of a team

---:--


So the team is weird. It is supposed to incit the opponent to pick Timburr, but he doesn't have Mach Punch or any Fighting Attacks. Weavile is a good Pokemon, but he is useless in this team. The star of the team is Sharpedo: he wins the game, but Chansey hard walls it. So, you have to use Galeking, that trap and kill Chansey. Galeking itself blocks Diglett, due to his Balloon. Though, Chansey doesn't hit Sharpedo, but it kills itself with LO.

For the opponent, Timburr may seem promiseful, but it is useless. Weavile is also a bad pick. Galeking is useful because it beats Chansey without losing its Balloon. Here's a list of MUs only for this team that doesn't include opponent's Pokemon.
Weavile -> Nobody
Timburr -> Removes Aggron's Balloon
Galeking -> Chansey, Diglett, Weavile, Timburr
Sharpedo -> Aggron, Timburr, Weavile, Diglett
Chansey -> Timburr, Weavile, Sharpedo
Diglett -> Weavile, Timburr, Chansey

You can choose to use only viable sets, but your opponent will choose the Mons that have the best MU.
Maybe is this too complex.

Bans: Uh, since your opponent may take your OP mon, idk if Anything is banworthy.

Questions: Should this take place in AG?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Kind Gift:
You pick do not pick your Pokemon! In fact, you choose 3 of the opponent's and he takes the others. You can't see abilities and movesets, so you have to guess if the opponent has chosen good sets or not. A half of this meta resids in teambuild. With this team:
---:--
Your opponent may choose Timburr, because if it has Mach Punch, it'll be very strong. But, Timburr may not have Mach Punch! So you have to think inside your opponent's teambuild and guess their sets.

Example of a team

---:--


So the team is weird. It is supposed to incit the opponent to pick Timburr, but he doesn't have Mach Punch or any Fighting Attacks. Weavile is a good Pokemon, but he is useless in this team. The star of the team is Sharpedo: he wins the game, but Chansey hard walls it. So, you have to use Galeking, that trap and kill Chansey. Galeking itself blocks Diglett, due to his Balloon. Though, Chansey doesn't hit Sharpedo, but it kills itself with LO.

For the opponent, Timburr may seem promiseful, but it is useless. Weavile is also a bad pick. Galeking is useful because it beats Chansey without losing its Balloon. Here's a list of MUs only for this team that doesn't include opponent's Pokemon.
Weavile -> Nobody
Timburr -> Removes Aggron's Balloon
Galeking -> Chansey, Diglett, Weavile, Timburr
Sharpedo -> Aggron, Timburr, Weavile, Diglett
Chansey -> Timburr, Weavile, Sharpedo
Diglett -> Weavile, Timburr, Chansey

You can choose to use only viable sets, but your opponent will choose the Mons that have the best MU.
Maybe is this too complex.

I submitted something like this a while ago, and while the response was positive it was ultimately rejected for being too difficult to code, unfortunately.

Maybe when Showdown gets its big client update I'll resubmit it, see if the feasibility has changed.

 

[Turtlek]

Custom Megas!
Permise: Uh this is an old idea. It is basically new megas with custom abilities and stats. I don’t know if someone has had this way. So, It’s Scalemons, but with 500 BST, with AAA, with no EVs and this rule:
A bonus of up to 50 bonus points are given to each stat, depending of EVs. Total 100 bonus.
EG:
A spread classic, so 252 252 would give 50 bonus in each stat.
Idk a formula but each pack of 5 EVs would give 1 bonus point.
Threats:
I think it could be sanier if only FE could megaevolve. It would respect the lore and protect us from Abra. Maybe Scalemons bans + AAA.

Questions:
Should I add Camomons or Bonus Type?
Should only no items mons be allowed to use AAA and my rule ?

 

[PQRDG]

This honestly does not sound any fun to play. Relying on RNG EVERY turn sounds really annoying to do. Although you do get to react as it changes at the end of the turn, it still feels too random for an OM. Maybe this is more suited for a twist on random battles. Any metagame with too much RNG does not seem well suited for an OM, maybe a random battle format.

For your clarification, you do keep your tera type after you switch out, and this official information. The description says you keep it for the whole battle, so that means you keep it even if you switch.

Yeah in hindsight I agree with your point. I was just hoping to figure out some way to make the new Tera-types have some use in an OM, as it is the new thing coming to this generation. The only thing I can think of otherwise is for the Gen9 Bonus Type OM to use the Tera-Type instead of the name.

 

[prunyy]

Kind Gift:
Metagame premise:
You pick do not pick your Pokemon! In fact, you choose 3 of the opponent's and he takes the others. You can't see abilities and movesets, so you have to guess if the opponent has chosen good sets or not. A half of this meta resids in teambuild. With this team:
---:--
Your opponent may choose Timburr, because if it has Mach Punch, it'll be very strong. But, Timburr may not have Mach Punch! So you have to think inside your opponent's teambuild and guess their sets.

Example of a team

---:--


So the team is weird. It is supposed to incit the opponent to pick Timburr, but he doesn't have Mach Punch or any Fighting Attacks. Weavile is a good Pokemon, but he is useless in this team. The star of the team is Sharpedo: he wins the game, but Chansey hard walls it. So, you have to use Galeking, that trap and kill Chansey. Galeking itself blocks Diglett, due to his Balloon. Though, Chansey doesn't hit Sharpedo, but it kills itself with LO.

For the opponent, Timburr may seem promiseful, but it is useless. Weavile is also a bad pick. Galeking is useful because it beats Chansey without losing its Balloon. Here's a list of MUs only for this team that doesn't include opponent's Pokemon.
Weavile -> Nobody
Timburr -> Removes Aggron's Balloon
Galeking -> Chansey, Diglett, Weavile, Timburr
Sharpedo -> Aggron, Timburr, Weavile, Diglett
Chansey -> Timburr, Weavile, Sharpedo
Diglett -> Weavile, Timburr, Chansey

You can choose to use only viable sets, but your opponent will choose the Mons that have the best MU.
Maybe is this too complex.

Bans: Uh, since your opponent may take your OP mon, idk if Anything is banworthy.

Questions: Should this take place in AG?

Either this is already an OM, or was suggested earlier. You need a balance of viable pokemon and unviable sets, which sounds for some fun teambuilding

It sounds really fun, playing mind games with the opponent and being tricked yourself. It requires some big brain stuff.

I think this should be AG because you can have AG viable pokemon, but maybe have bad sets to trick the opponent. Maybe you could have some OU pokemon capable of countering the AG builds that you have.

 

[prunyy]

Custom Megas!
Permise: Uh this is an old idea. It is basically new megas with custom abilities and stats. I don’t know if someone has had this way. So, It’s Scalemons, but with 500 BST, with AAA, with no EVs and this rule:
A bonus of up to 50 bonus points are given to each stat, depending of EVs. Total 100 bonus.
EG:
A spread classic, so 252 252 would give 50 bonus in each stat.
Idk a formula but each pack of 5 EVs would give 1 bonus point.
Threats:
I think it could be sanier if only FE could megaevolve. It would respect the lore and protect us from Abra. Maybe Scalemons bans + AAA.

Questions:
Should I add Camomons or Bonus Type?
Should only no items mons be allowed to use AAA and my rule ?

This was submitted a couple days ago and it's basically the same thing. I gave the ideas of skewing the added stats somehow, making it AAA, and adding/changing the type.

drampa's grandpa said that this type of stuff falls under the commonly rejected and the formula that would be used would be too complex.

Also adding +50 stats with 252 evs sounds kinda busted. There needs to be a way to skew, but not dump, the stats. This would just leave to an even more complex formula.

I'm pretty sure there is a pet mod called custom megas that makes balanced megas for every fully evolved pokemon. I don't know if it's complete or in the making, though.

 

[Turtlek]

Arsenal:
Premise: Tired of 4MSS? There is my proposal! You are allowed to give up to 24 moves to your Pokemons.
Threats: All who suffered from having coverage for too much options. Nidoking seems powerful: it can deny Flamethrower if there are no Ferrothorn and instead run Thunderbolt, Superpower and Rock Slide, all moves that he couldn't really place in his pool. Many set-up sweepers had no space, like Cosmic Mew that couldn't run Body Press in addition of Taunt/Refresh/Rest. Pult is a nice Screener.
Questions: Should some mons be banned?

Thoughts: Some AV mons will run status in case they are knoocked off. Rotom will just have 3 status...


Arsenal 2 (Manchester):
Premise: Tired of 4MSS? There is my proposal! You are allowed to give up to 24 moves to your Pokemons, but if you use at least 5, you can't use any other.
Threats: All who suffered from having coverage for too much options. Nidoking seems powerful: it can deny Flamethrower if there are no Ferrothorn and instead run Thunderbolt, Superpower and Rock Slide, all moves that he couldn't really place in his pool. Many set-up sweepers had no space, like Cosmic Mew that couldn't run Body Press in addition of Taunt/Refresh/Rest. Pult is a nice Screener.
Questions: Should some mons be banned?

Thoughts: Some AV mons will run status in case they are knoocked off. Rotom will just have 3 status... U-Turn may be worse, since it blocks a slot that could allow more coverage.

 

[prunyy]

Arsenal:
Premise: Tired of 4MSS? There is my proposal! You are allowed to give up to 24 moves to your Pokemons.
Threats: All who suffered from having coverage for too much options. Nidoking seems powerful: it can deny Flamethrower if there are no Ferrothorn and instead run Thunderbolt, Superpower and Rock Slide, all moves that he couldn't really place in his pool. Many set-up sweepers had no space, like Cosmic Mew that couldn't run Body Press in addition of Taunt/Refresh/Rest. Pult is a nice Screener.
Questions: Should some mons be banned?

Thoughts: Some AV mons will run status in case they are knoocked off. Rotom will just have 3 status...


Arsenal 2 (Manchester):
Premise: Tired of 4MSS? There is my proposal! You are allowed to give up to 24 moves to your Pokemons, but if you use at least 5, you can't use any other.
Threats: All who suffered from having coverage for too much options. Nidoking seems powerful: it can deny Flamethrower if there are no Ferrothorn and instead run Thunderbolt, Superpower and Rock Slide, all moves that he couldn't really place in his pool. Many set-up sweepers had no space, like Cosmic Mew that couldn't run Body Press in addition of Taunt/Refresh/Rest. Pult is a nice Screener.
Questions: Should some mons be banned?

Thoughts: Some AV mons will run status in case they are knoocked off. Rotom will just have 3 status... U-Turn may be worse, since it blocks a slot that could allow more coverage.

I feel like 24 moves is too much. I would say below 10 would be optimal. There isn’t much teambuilding needed with 24 moves, you have your strongest stabs, maybe some stronger moves with lower accuracy, and coverage, but nothing else that attacks. The rest of the moves would be status. Every pokemon would literally have a single set. A fewer number of moves could make this a bit more interesting than a pokemon essentially running just one, overarching, set.

I like your second idea of locking the moves after clicking an X amount of them. This will add more strategy, for example, choosing which moves you don’t want to lock and PP conservation. In Arsenal 2, 24/5 split makes more sense, but a lower number of moves would be nice still.

I think this should be an OU based metagame, but I’m not sure about any bans. With a ton of moves, it should be excepted that you can take care of anything of concern.

If I had to choose, I would much rather play Arsenal 2 than Arsenal, just because of the extra bit of caution needed when clicking a move.