Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

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Yes we can do this, It was juste a proposition, I have to solution : redirect dark and Steel type in normal type or redirect Steel type in a physical type similary and redirect Dark type in a spécial type similary
 
Dodge Ball
1590189955117.png

Metagame premise: a 6x6 single battle, each mon must have only one move, after both pokémon switches out they will use automatically its only move, you can also dont switch out and just use the move again, the battles will be basically you switching your team predicting the pokemon oponent will switch, imagine it like a rotation battle of 6 pokemon with one move each. The idea is you are throwing the pokeball directly in the face of your oponent so your pokemon attacks it imediatelly hence 'dodge ball' :P This meta has the objective to play like a 1vs1 but using 6 pokemon (LOL). the auto attack is not made if a pokemon comes out from a fainted pokemon. Protect moves are obviosly banned.


Potential bans and threats: Based on some mock battles I tested choice items, knock off, justified, heavy duty boots, hazard, draco meteor, fairy, flash fire and overheart is what i presume the meta will revolves around. Theres two ways to handle switch moves/items: ban completely or just dont do the auto move if the switch comes from a switch move/item. bulk offense and fast hyper offense is probably the best ways to deal in this meta with lot of choice items. Hazards can be useful because of the switches, but renders one of your pokemon useless after set it, so is a trade off you must think well if you are going to risk it, ferrothorn is a good stealth setter since it can come with rocky helmet and iron barbs to sap opponents and dont be a dead weight, but it is an easy prey to rotom-heat overheat. Toxic spikes cannot be as useful because is a whole slot that can be easily dispached by a oposing poison mon. Surprisely normal poison is better than toxic since rarely a pokemon will stay on field. Knock off band can be very good, not only taking off oposing choices but also causing heavy damage, i started to test terrakion itemless justified which worked surprisey well surviving the knockoff and dealing massive close combats, fairy mons also could easily eat the knock off and countering with moonblast, dragapult is particulary dangerous since it can 2ko lot of mons with draco meteor or shadow ball, but since both sets have imunities it is a matter of player finds out which set it has and work around imunities. From some of my tests it worked well, is a very fast game heavily based on predicts because of how offensive it is since you have no slots for waste on status move, but i wonder how community would play it.


Questions for the community: is it looks fun? say ways that the meta could be broken (probably theres many needed bans to balance it)
 
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Metagame premise: a 6x6 single battle, each mon must have only one move, after both pokémon switches out they will use automatically its only move, you can also dont switch out and just use the move again, the battles will be basically you switching your team predicting the pokemon oponent will switch, imagine it like a rotation battle of 6 pokemon with one move each. The idea is you are throwing the pokeball directly in the face of your oponent so your pokemon attacks it imediatelly hence 'dodge ball' :P This meta has the objective to play like a 1vs1 but using 6 pokemon (LOL). the auto attack is not made if a pokemon comes out from a fainted pokemon. Protect moves are obviosly banned.


Potential bans and threats: Based on some mock battles I tested choice items, knock off, justified, heavy duty boots, hazard, draco meteor, fairy, flash fire and overheart is what i presume the meta will revolves around. Theres two ways to handle switch moves/items: ban completely or just dont do the auto move if the switch comes from a switch move/item. bulk offense and fast hyper offense is probably the best ways to deal in this meta with lot of choice items. Hazards can be useful because of the switches, but renders one of your pokemon useless after set it, so is a trade off you must think well if you are going to risk it, ferrothorn is a good stealth setter since it can come with rocky helmet and iron barbs to sap opponents and dont be a dead weight, but it is an easy prey to rotom-heat overheat. Toxic spikes cannot be as useful because is a whole slot that can be easily dispached by a oposing poison mon. Surprisely normal poison is better than toxic since rarely a pokemon will stay on field. Knock off band can be very good, not only taking off oposing choices but also causing heavy damage, i started to test terrakion itemless justified which worked surprisey well surviving the knockoff and dealing massive close combats, fairy mons also could easily eat the knock off and countering with moonblast, dragapult is particulary dangerous since it can 2ko lot of mons with draco meteor or shadow ball, but since both sets have imunities it is a matter of player finds out which set it has and work around imunities. From some of my tests it worked well, is a very fast game heavily based on predicts because of how offensive it is since you have no slots for waste on status move, but i wonder how community would play it.


Questions for the community: is it looks fun? say ways that the meta could be broken (probably theres many needed bans to balance it)
Dude, this sounds hype. It's just hard reads every single turn.
 
Retromon
Introduction :

Have you ever dream that Regice have 150 base special attack ? that spam Hyper Beam with Slaking ? or that use a Dragapult who haven't dragon moves ? If you think that, the Retromon tier is for you !
This tier is based on the mechanics of first gen but with all the existing Pokemon.

Rules :

-The Special stat of generation since gen two is the average of the Special Attack and the Special Defense (excepted for the evolutions of first gen Pokemon who have their Special based on the statistic who based the Special of their pre-evolutions, for example, Tangrowth have 110 Special)
-The moves from gen 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 are banned, abilities are banned and EVs are maximized.
-First gen moves have their effects in first gen (Psychic have 33% chance to low the special, Blizzard have 90 accuracy...).
-The Pokemon cannot take items.
-Dark, Steel and Fairy types are deleted for the Pokemon who have a double type. If the Pokemon have only one type, Dark type is Psychic type, Steel type is Rock type and Fairy type is Normal type.
-Critical hits are based on the speed.
-Freeze is definetely.
-And more.

Ban :

Pokemon :

Mewtwo-Ho-Oh-Lugia-Regice-Groudon-Kyogre-Rayquazza-Deoxys-Deoxys Attack-Deoxys Defense-Deoxys Speed-Dialga-Palkia-Giratina-Arceus-Reshiram-Zekrom-Xerneas--Yveltal-Solgaleo-Lunala-Necrozma Dusk Manes-Necrozma Dawn Wings-Eternatos

Moves :
Sand Attack-Smokescreen-Confuse Ray (Haxx is very present in gen 1)

Examples

Mantine
- Amnesia
- Blizzard
- Surf
- Substitute
- (80+140)/2=110 Special

Slaking
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Seismic Toss
- (95+65)/2=80 Special

Regice
- Blizzard
- Amnesia
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave/Explosion
- (100+200)/2=150 Special

Ps: I'm french so my english is not awesome
This sounds like a great metagame! I assume that the physical/special split will be revoked also (i.e. all normal moves are physical, all water moves are special, etc.)? In regards to fixing types, I think Hematite made a great suggestion in his reply:
It's totally up to you whether to take this or not, but I do have a small suggestion on this part!
So far, for all of the Pokémon that have gained these types (Magnemite and all of Gen VI's Fairy-types), Pokémon with the new type as their primary (or only) type were originally Normal-type, while Pokémon with the new type as a secondary type were originally single-typed.
(For example, Togekiss, which is currently Fairy/Flying, was originally Normal/Flying, and Clefable, which is currently pure Fairy, was originally pure Normal; on the other hand, Magnemite, which is currently Electric/Steel, was originally just Electric.)
I think this might be a good way to handle these type changes, since Psychic may not make sense for every Dark-type and Rock may not make sense for every Steel-type.
(This would make a Pokémon like Honchkrow Normal/Flying, while Pokémon like Tapu Koko would be pure Electric. It would also make sure that every Pokémon that has changed type goes back to its original type.)
 

Ban :

Pokemon :

Mewtwo-Ho-Oh-Lugia-Regice-Groudon-Kyogre-Rayquazza-Deoxys-Deoxys Attack-Deoxys Defense-Deoxys Speed-Dialga-Palkia-Giratina-Arceus-Reshiram-Zekrom-Xerneas--Yveltal-Solgaleo-Lunala-Necrozma Dusk Manes-Necrozma Dawn Wings-Eternatos

Moves :
Sand Attack-Smokescreen-Confuse Ray (Haxx is very present in gen 1)
I would also consider banning all trapping moves. Fire spin and the like had the effect of disabling the opponent's ability to attack in Gen 1, which would be really imbalanced. Other than that, definitely seems like a fun idea!
 
I don't think so because fire spin and clamp allow to switch out your pokemon so theses moves aren't to powerful. Wrap is more difficult to counter but a ghost type can check wrappers, I will consider if wrap deserved a ban. :smogthink:
 
also ban the hell oiut of sleep in retromons more things get it and its 100% acc and is completely bs
more, better pokemon get the trapping moves (i think dont @ me) and easily can get overbearing
 
Came up with some cool stuff for Dodge Ball.


In current OU, Aegislash usually runs a Choice item, with the great bulk of its Shield form just being a temporary buffer against faster foes. This playstyle is accentuated in this meta.



This gen buffed Rapid Spin to 50 power. While that's still weak, it's at least strong enough to function as an attack, so it isn't completely worthless outside of clearing hazards. The three Pokemon pictured have the strongest Rapid Spins. Excadrill has the best typing, Hitmontop has a bit more power thanks to Technician, and Komala, while unreleased, has the strongest due to STAB.



Fake Out needs to be banned, or at the very least limited to one per team. Otherwise, you can just switch back and forth between Fake Out users, and unless your opponent has a Ghost-type or something with Inner Focus or Shield Dust, there's fuck all they can do about it. Protective Pads means they can't even retaliate with Rocky Helmet and the like.



First Impression is also buffed. Swarm might be worth using over Hustle for Durant, as it provides the same 50% power boost to First Impression. It's a question of whether you want the power boost immediately at the cost of a 20% miss rate, or need to rely on Durant getting to low health for the boost.



You mentioned uncertainty over how to handle U-turn and Volt Switch. I'm not sure either, but if you go with "automove only triggers with hard switches", then fast pivot moves are still very powerful. If you hard switch into Ninjask, it will immediately U-turn back out, and because this will before the opponent attacks but after they switch, and because each Pokemon can only use a single attack, you can very easily switch into something to comfortably tank whatever attack is coming. It's like regular fast U-turns, but even better. Because you go do it by hard switching into Ninjask, it effectively gives everything on your team access to a fast U-turn, and your opponent can't even play around it by predicting the U-turn and attacking what's coming in, because with the smallest amount of scouting, you know exactly what move they're about to use. The only reason I can think of for not banning them regardless of how they work is that slow U-turns aren't nearly as busted, but I don't think that's a good enough reason.



How does Imposter Ditto work? Does it automatically use whatever its new attack is, or does it automatically try to use Transform and then fail because it doesn't know Transform anymore?



Reuniclus is currently the only offensive Pokemon with Regenerator, and Future Sight could be a neat tech.



Arcanine can use Burn Up to land a powerful hit, though it forfeits the option to stay in and attack again.


Regarding the Gen 1 mechanics idea, it's not going to work. There have been several variations of this idea pitched in the past, and none of them that I've seen have become playable metas (not "playable" as in "balanced and fun to play", but as in "someone has actually coded this so it's able to be played"). And this newest version is so horribly subjective that it's even less likely to become a thing than its predecesors. New types get replaced with arbitrarily chosen old types, except when they aren't? The special stat is determined by a formula, except when it isn't? Sand Attack and Confuse Ray are banned even though they've never been an problem in any generation, including Gen 1?

Even if the idea was polished, "gen 1 mechanics" is such a nebulous change that there's no way in hell that it would ever become an OM. Its only chance at existence is as a Pet Mod.
 
Metagame premise: a 6x6 single battle, each mon must have only one move, after both pokémon switches out they will use automatically its only move, you can also dont switch out and just use the move again, the battles will be basically you switching your team predicting the pokemon oponent will switch, imagine it like a rotation battle of 6 pokemon with one move each. The idea is you are throwing the pokeball directly in the face of your oponent so your pokemon attacks it imediatelly hence 'dodge ball' :P This meta has the objective to play like a 1vs1 but using 6 pokemon (LOL). the auto attack is not made if a pokemon comes out from a fainted pokemon. Protect moves are obviosly banned.


Potential bans and threats: Based on some mock battles I tested choice items, knock off, justified, heavy duty boots, hazard, draco meteor, fairy, flash fire and overheart is what i presume the meta will revolves around. Theres two ways to handle switch moves/items: ban completely or just dont do the auto move if the switch comes from a switch move/item. bulk offense and fast hyper offense is probably the best ways to deal in this meta with lot of choice items. Hazards can be useful because of the switches, but renders one of your pokemon useless after set it, so is a trade off you must think well if you are going to risk it, ferrothorn is a good stealth setter since it can come with rocky helmet and iron barbs to sap opponents and dont be a dead weight, but it is an easy prey to rotom-heat overheat. Toxic spikes cannot be as useful because is a whole slot that can be easily dispached by a oposing poison mon. Surprisely normal poison is better than toxic since rarely a pokemon will stay on field. Knock off band can be very good, not only taking off oposing choices but also causing heavy damage, i started to test terrakion itemless justified which worked surprisey well surviving the knockoff and dealing massive close combats, fairy mons also could easily eat the knock off and countering with moonblast, dragapult is particulary dangerous since it can 2ko lot of mons with draco meteor or shadow ball, but since both sets have imunities it is a matter of player finds out which set it has and work around imunities. From some of my tests it worked well, is a very fast game heavily based on predicts because of how offensive it is since you have no slots for waste on status move, but i wonder how community would play it.


Questions for the community: is it looks fun? say ways that the meta could be broken (probably theres many needed bans to balance it)
Would Fishous Rend or Bolt Beak get the boost on switch-in?

Either way, seems cool. Like you said, it's like 1v1 but 6 moves and 6 different typings. Wack

:gastrodon:
Since Knock Off is so good, Sticky Hold is great in this meta so Gastrodon can still have some form of recovery. Scald seems like Gastro's best option, but if Water Absorb becomes common because of Dracovish, Pain Split and Infestation exist. Speaking of Infestation...

:toxapex: :arcanine:
I'm not exactly sure how trapping moves are going to work, but my guess is that they work as usual: if the user stays in, the opponent is trapped. That means the opponent can be predicted for one turn, since they have no choice but to stay in to use their only move, meaning the user has a high chance to KO the next turn (along with getting extra chip damage). Of course, U-turn and Volt Switch counter this (if it is implemented as Dr. Pumpkinz suggests) but this brings me to my next mon...

:shedinja:
Probably the best trapper. Since Knock Off would be so common, it would be hard to switch in, but once you scout around for your opponent's moves, Shedinja becomes especially dangerous. It can trap on switch-in with Infestation, and, because of Wonder Guard nullifying U-turn and Volt Switch, the opponent has no choice but to stay in the next turn. Consider banning (Shedinja or trapping moves).

I'll update this post if I think of anything else
 
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Fatmon :SM/Snorlax:

Metagame Premise: In Fatmon, every Pokemon has its HP multiplied by x1.5. The boosted HP works similarly to how Dynamax interacts with recoil and recovery (They would've taken less from Life Orb recoil but Leftovers would also heal less). However, damage taken from entry hazard remains the same because they cannot interact with Dynamax at all as Dynamax would immediately be over as soon as the Pokemon switches out.


Potential bans and threats:
Weakness Policy would need to be banned as soon as possible as most of the Pokemon are fat enough to take a super-effective and make good use of the boost from it. Other than that, not much else I can think of.

Questions to the community:
  • Will Fatmon gather enough interest to stand out on its own?
  • Should Fatmon have something to balance it? I would've suggested making Pokemon lose the HP boost if they switched out, but that will make Roar and Whirlwind broken.
 
However, damage taken from entry hazard remains the same because they cannot interact with Dynamax at all as Dynamax would immediately be over as soon as the Pokemon switches out.
every other % effect is relatively reduced so i dont see why hazards wouldn't

it overall seems like not big enough of a change to be an om
 

Sectonia

shattering expectations to forge a new reality
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Fatmon :SM/Snorlax:

Metagame Premise: In Fatmon, every Pokemon has its HP multiplied by x1.5. The boosted HP works similarly to how Dynamax interacts with recoil and recovery (They would've taken less from Life Orb recoil but Leftovers would also heal less). However, damage taken from entry hazard remains the same because they cannot interact with Dynamax at all as Dynamax would immediately be over as soon as the Pokemon switches out.


Potential bans and threats:
Weakness Policy would need to be banned as soon as possible as most of the Pokemon are fat enough to take a super-effective and make good use of the boost from it. Other than that, not much else I can think of.

Questions to the community:
  • Will Fatmon gather enough interest to stand out on its own?
  • Should Fatmon have something to balance it? I would've suggested making Pokemon lose the HP boost if they switched out, but that will make Roar and Whirlwind broken.
To be frank, this meta is basically "what if dynamax was permanent?" and it's an idea that's been brought up a few times, but this isn't really a significant stand out compared to the rest. All this meta does is encourages fat teams to thrive, and in some cases, would make set up spam really strong, as that + 1.5x health is just disastrous. Personally, I wouldn't think this is unique enough as an OM to really be considered.

There's really no reasonable way to balance out the idea of "everything has 1.5x HP" because that's inevitably gonna turn into either set up spam or a stall heaven. In this case, recovery is nerfed (ingame, recovery is cut in half when used by dynamaxed pokemon, and i've had experience with it in raids in the game, so i would know) so it's very strongly in the favor of set-up spam. Allowing recovery to be the same if the health never changed would turn it into stall hell, so there's no way around that. There's a lot of issues associated with just flat out increasing HP, and any more changes that can't be summarized up in one line along with the original concept would push it into pet mod territory.
 
Came up with some cool stuff for Dodge Ball.


In current OU, Aegislash usually runs a Choice item, with the great bulk of its Shield form just being a temporary buffer against faster foes. This playstyle is accentuated in this meta.



This gen buffed Rapid Spin to 50 power. While that's still weak, it's at least strong enough to function as an attack, so it isn't completely worthless outside of clearing hazards. The three Pokemon pictured have the strongest Rapid Spins. Excadrill has the best typing, Hitmontop has a bit more power thanks to Technician, and Komala, while unreleased, has the strongest due to STAB.



Fake Out needs to be banned, or at the very least limited to one per team. Otherwise, you can just switch back and forth between Fake Out users, and unless your opponent has a Ghost-type or something with Inner Focus or Shield Dust, there's fuck all they can do about it. Protective Pads means they can't even retaliate with Rocky Helmet and the like.



First Impression is also buffed. Swarm might be worth using over Hustle for Durant, as it provides the same 50% power boost to First Impression. It's a question of whether you want the power boost immediately at the cost of a 20% miss rate, or need to rely on Durant getting to low health for the boost.



You mentioned uncertainty over how to handle U-turn and Volt Switch. I'm not sure either, but if you go with "automove only triggers with hard switches", then fast pivot moves are still very powerful. If you hard switch into Ninjask, it will immediately U-turn back out, and because this will before the opponent attacks but after they switch, and because each Pokemon can only use a single attack, you can very easily switch into something to comfortably tank whatever attack is coming. It's like regular fast U-turns, but even better. Because you go do it by hard switching into Ninjask, it effectively gives everything on your team access to a fast U-turn, and your opponent can't even play around it by predicting the U-turn and attacking what's coming in, because with the smallest amount of scouting, you know exactly what move they're about to use. The only reason I can think of for not banning them regardless of how they work is that slow U-turns aren't nearly as busted, but I don't think that's a good enough reason.



How does Imposter Ditto work? Does it automatically use whatever its new attack is, or does it automatically try to use Transform and then fail because it doesn't know Transform anymore?



Reuniclus is currently the only offensive Pokemon with Regenerator, and Future Sight could be a neat tech.



Arcanine can use Burn Up to land a powerful hit, though it forfeits the option to stay in and attack again.


Regarding the Gen 1 mechanics idea, it's not going to work. There have been several variations of this idea pitched in the past, and none of them that I've seen have become playable metas (not "playable" as in "balanced and fun to play", but as in "someone has actually coded this so it's able to be played"). And this newest version is so horribly subjective that it's even less likely to become a thing than its predecesors. New types get replaced with arbitrarily chosen old types, except when they aren't? The special stat is determined by a formula, except when it isn't? Sand Attack and Confuse Ray are banned even though they've never been an problem in any generation, including Gen 1?

Even if the idea was polished, "gen 1 mechanics" is such a nebulous change that there's no way in hell that it would ever become an OM. Its only chance at existence is as a Pet Mod.
Would Fishous Rend or Bolt Beak get the boost on switch-in?

Either way, seems cool. Like you said, it's like 1v1 but 6 moves and 6 different typings. Wack

:gastrodon:
Since Knock Off is so good, Sticky Hold is great in this meta so Gastrodon can still have some form of recovery. Scald seems like Gastro's best option, but if Water Absorb becomes common because of Dracovish, Pain Split and Infestation exist. Speaking of Infestation...

:toxapex: :arcanine:
I'm not exactly sure how trapping moves are going to work, but my guess is that they work as usual: if the user stays in, the opponent is trapped. That means the opponent can be predicted for one turn, since they have no choice but to stay in to use their only move, meaning the user has a high chance to KO the next turn (along with getting extra chip damage). Of course, U-turn and Volt Switch counter this (if it is implemented as Dr. Pumpkinz suggests) but this brings me to my next mon...

:shedinja:
Probably the best trapper. Since Knock Off would be so common, it would be hard to switch in, but once you scout around for your opponent's moves, Shedinja becomes especially dangerous. It can trap on switch-in with Infestation, and, because of Wonder Guard nullifying U-turn and Volt Switch, the opponent has no choice but to stay in the next turn. Consider banning (Shedinja or trapping moves).

I'll update this post if I think of anything else
Thankyu for both analysis! The points you gave is exactly what I was looking for! Fake out is definitively worth a ban, to be honest it was the first thing that I came up worth a ban, but i completely forgot it when I was writing. Even at 1 limit, it is a stressful move, because you keep wasting turns having hp sapped every other turn, I don't think it is a healthy move, still I think it deserves a test at 1 first. Also about volt turn, the best argument I can give about volt is volt absorb and ground imunities, it straight foward becomes a somewat more risk move because you probably will lost a whole mon if switch into a stabed earthquake, sure it is very good when executed, but theres various good mons that can block it, a 6:1 chance is still worthable to run a specs zeraora, also having it supported by flying/levitate would leave to many 50/50 situations, but again I would like to test and before, banning it a limit of 1 i think is worth a test too, U-turn actually looks more overpowered, initially the lack of heavy stab hitters limiting to ninjask made it didnt look that scare, because of stealth rocks, ninjask has to run boots and dealing less damage, but banded dragapult has a stronger u-turn than boots ninjask, with more bulk and better defensive typing, what makes it a meta staple. About ditto I need to look more carefully at the code, but Im thinking about implementing an auto select funcion at same time moves are open for user choice, so imposter activates then it attacks using the copied move, since imposter activates before moves are able to select. About traps, well that shedinja trap looks much like wrap in generation 1, and well everybody know how that was unfun, ofc it straight makes the meta unhealthy, its completely ban worth, other traps maybe arent that good because probably you will take more damage than receive, unless you pick a rocks setter or a spinner, btw the avaiable spinners doesnt look worth of a slot, still to low damage and easy blockable by ghosts, mainly dragapult.

All other strategies you mentioned are well rounded and ofc worth a try!

Some other strategies I came up:

:sm/torkoal: :sm/pelipper: :sm/ninetales-alola:
Weather is great! a lot faster for support worth a shot, weather wars of gen 5 are back xD, aurora veil scarfed with hail could be also a good support in any team.

:ss/indeedee: :ss/pincurchin:
The same could also apply to terrain. Althrough not as powerful as weathers

:sm/slaking:
Too bad this fela isnt in galar, could be really good

:sm/whimsicott: :sm/dusclops: :sm/clefable:
Support moves arent bad as it looks, tailwind, trick room, Gravity, wish and the mentioned above aurova veil looks good and usable, the problem is the situations it can leave the game, end games with two support mons would not be as rare if recoil moves are prevalent, and well with trap moves you know the situations of toxapex trapping a wish clefable would leave a disgunting game since infestation has more pp than wish so its gen 1 wrap all again(this isnt why people doesnt play gen 1?). Since some status plays like trick room brings big advantage, taunt becomes mandatory and still ends in 6:1 situations unless you bring your own trick room which still doesnt counter it effectively costing a mon... definitely maybe worth a ban.


The support strategies can leave the game a bit of too much luck, if it have too many viable support strategies and you being lockd in just 6 moves, this leaves no space for cover many strategies, maybe having a second move, (the first is the auto, the second is the selectable) could solve this, but this ofc could bring coding hell.
 
Going back and looking at older gens specifically gens 1-4 there was one big piece of strategy that doesn't exist in the modern meta. This is the lack of team preview which screwed over and helped a lot of pokemon. I mean an example is that dedicated leads and anti-leads which was one of the premier aspects of the DPP metagame no longer exist. Pokemon like Azelf, Machamp, and so on all slowly fell down the tiers due there previous use as some of the best leads and anti-leads in the game. Alongside this, a lot of sweepers took a hit due to the ability to hide them until they were most needed and the same thing goes with a lot of walls, hell it just made the whole meta a lot more strategically inclined. So....


kbaili49k4yl2qhwakil.jpg


Introducing BlindMons (Name still pending)

The idea behind the meta is extremely simple and easy. It's the standard SS (or whatever is the newest meta) but without team preview. I know at first it doesn't seem like much but this one change could completely shake up the entire SS metagame at least in OU.

For example for some tier shifts, I could see happen:

Machamp-OU: Machamp practically unchanged since DPP with a few extra moves added to it's movepool plus the inclusion of Assault vest. Machamp would easily return to its former glory as one of the best leads in the entire game due to no guard, priority and it's decent bulk and move pool. Plus nothing wants to take a stab dynamic punch especially since leads are normally frail and fast.

Espeon - OU: I think Espeon would easily hit OU in this meta. Magic bounce instantly makes it a great anti-lead due to blocking taunt and hazards. Not only that but Trick and Choice specs means it can easily punch a wall in the opposing lead or screw them by locking them into the wrong move. This plus it's excellent speed and SPA means it would be among the premiere leads in the metagame. However, it would also have great utility as a surprise as one of the biggest flaws of magic bounce is how prediction based it is due to the other opponent knowing you have magic bounce but if they don't know that means it's a lot easier to use and abuse.

Accelgor - OU: Accelgor has all the makings of an amazing lead, blistering high speed, priority, entry hazards and taunt. I could see it as one of the best leads and hazard stackers in the game without team preview.

Weavile - OU: Again, fast has stab priority and knock off and great offensive stats another amazing lead pokemon.

Gyarados from UUBL - OU: Gyarados and it's intimidating plus it's amazing stats has always been a great pokemon. However, this meta gives two advantages to Gyarados. Without seeing him it's hard to prepare for him as you don't know to save your electric types for him. That and with moves like Lightningrod or Motor Drive and Volt Asorb Gyarados now has an amazing partner that can sweep themselves. For example Zeraora.

The next few go into the same territory but also goes into my next point.

Intelleon, Toxicitry, Noivern and Flygon.

These all go into the same category of rises because I can see a major rise in Volt-turn in this metagame, due to the nature of no battle preview, pivots and volt turn all become a lot stronger. With the ability to scout out your opponents team due there switches for counters gives you an amazing advantage.

Pokemon I think will be a bit too overpowered:

Aegislash: I feel the prediction base behind Aegislash and his excellent stats means that he would restrict team building too much in a meta where you can't even know if he's there or not.

Keldeo: Again it's just too strong with the ability to disguise and hide it. Not only that but much like Gyarados it can abuse the lack of team preview with partners that take away all its weaknesses.

Kyurem: AGain excellent sweeping potential and stabs + the ability to hide it would be to strong.

Cloyster: This ones a maybe but Shell Smash + Skill Link and the ability to hide it until the end of the game might make it a little too overpowered.

Pokemon that I think might drop:

Hippowdown: With how offensively based I predict the metagame to be, this pokemon doesn't have the speed or the stats too keep up and unlike its fellow sand streamer Tyranitar, it doesn't the offensive nor sweeping pressure that he has either. Plus with the increased usage of water and flying types, I don't think he would hold up nearly as well.

More?

I've thought about this quite a bit but I'm biased myself and would like to hear your guys opinions on it.
 
Hey guys, I’ve been gone for literally like, 5 years, so forgive me if theres something I’m missing.

So I was thinking about what Pokémon would be potentially improved if they could access more than one of their potential abilities. This is what I came up with tonight. Still super rough, I know.

Duability is a National Dex based meta game. This is due to the increased number of potentially viable Pokémon, as the limited number of Pokémon available in Galar would be overly restrictive and prevent creativity in team building. In duability, all Pokemon have access to two abilities from their list of available ones. Abilities only available to specific forms or variants are likewise restricted (i.e., regular Weezing would not have access to Misty Surge).



Mega evolutions would retain one of their two abilities, and replace the other. How this would exactly work, I’ve yet to decide; I intend to determine this by community consensus.



Charizard @ Charizardite Y

Ability: Solar Power

Ability: Blaze

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Flamethrower

- Focus Blast

- Solar Beam

- Roost



Mega Charizard Y is already a potent offensive threat with frightening power. The combination of Solar Power and drought takes this even further, increasing it’s SpA by 50% at the cost of some HP each turn.



Compare:



Drought: 252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery



Solar power + Drought 252 SpA Solar Power Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery



Cinccino @ Choice Band/Leftovers

Ability: Skill Link

Ability: Technician

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Tail Slap

- Rock Blast

- Bullet Seed

- Knock Off/Substitute/U-turn



While potentially still outclassed, Cinncino’s good spd tier paired with a workable atk stat and two of the most synergistic abilities in the game could make it a potentially deadly threat. Similar to charizard, the combination of its two abilities allow it to reach insane levels of raw power. This paired with it’s solid multi-hit move pool make it p damn difficult to wall. As an aside, ambipom is notably similar and has stats that are all as good if not slightly better, however its more limited move pool could pose a problem for it.





252 Atk Choice Band Technician Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 200-240 (65.7 - 78.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery



Excadril@ literally anything

Ability: Sand Rush

Ability: take your pick

(Insert standard moves and whatnot here)



Excadrill would honestly change little, however it’s other two (really good, for the record) abilities typically get outshined by sand rush, for obvious reasons. This would just make it even more of a threat; do you choose to have an even more spammable EQ, or do you opt for just stupid power in sand? It’s up to you.



Hippowdon @ Leftovers

(Insert weird wallbreaker set here because I’m lazy as hell and don’t wanna type it up)



Hippowdown takes a page out of Zard’s book, using synergistic weather-based abilities to do a lot of damage. It’s normally decent 112 atk becomes much more impressive with Sand Force active, netting it 2HKO’s against a HUGE portion of the meta game, especially when sandstorm chip damage is taken into consideration.



Quagsire @ Leftovers

Ability: Unaware

Ability: probably water absorb, but damp isnt bad either, tbh



I don’t think this needs much explaining. Quagsire is already a pain for set up sweepers. Now its immune to water/can potentially stop suicide leads.



Clefable @ Leftovers

Abilities: isn’t this one kinda obvious?



See above. Dammit Clefable.



Others:



Regen M Slowbro

Limber M Loppuny

Reuniclus

Conkeldurr with whatever you want to give him

Darmanitan could be funky lol

Magneton/zone could both be cool w/analytic or sturdy

Dugtrio could be a major pain. I actually havent played in a minute though, so it looks like arena trap might be banned?

Alolan Golem could be straight wild.





Greninja (surprise)

M Mawile

M Sableye (I’m almost positive this one would be gonzo)

M Sharpedo (idk just sounds like a bit much)

As a final note, I’ve considered doing a community vote as to how Pokémon with only one ability should be handled. Some Ideas I am considering are granting them access to any abilities of others in their evolutionary line (Gengar gets levitate again), or potentially voting as a community on what abilities to assign them, based on balance. Idk tho. I’m open to other potential options as well. Leaving them with just one is also an option, but it sounds just... lame. I guess.



Anyway, I’m tired of typing. Theres probs stuff I’m missing. Let me know your thoughts.
 
Not gonna lie dodge ball looks slick af

A few things tho...

Magic Bouce should be put on the radar or outright banned it invalidates the concept of support pokemon while almost always getting in a free hit against them, additionally if you use espeon, it's going to switch out first against the bulky mons that would typically use status moves (think pex, clef, ferro, hippo, etc.) making it even harder to deal with.

Disable doesn't seem as broken on paper as it would be in practice, all it really does is force a switch from your opponent, it could perhaps be annoying on a team with a bunch of immunity abilities, but you also forfeit your mon's offensive capablities for forced switching.

Regenerator should be looked at very thoroughly, I really don't have a stance on it, as it seems broken on paper. But, if i'm understanding the rules of switching right, the following example takes place: game start sirfect'd CC vs Pex Scald, pex takes ~ 33%, perfect for recovering with regen, and even let's say the pex even gets the scald burn. Now, if I understand this properly, the pex is pseudo-trapped by the fact that in the obvious next-turn senario where both pokemon switch. The sirfect'd switches out first, as it is faster than pex, and when the next mon comes in, say a specs vikavolt, completely obliterates it with volt-switch, now pex is dead, you volt-switch out into your dragon darts dragapult and the opponent brings in their moonblast clef because your dragon darts failed on the switch.

In this senario, regenerator is fine, but if it's the other way that i'm thinking where the pex and sirfetch'd switch out into av eldegoss and aegislash respectively, then we have a problem. In the case of pokemon like sirfetch'd's cc having only 8 pp until your struggling, similarly powerful moves have generally less PP and can be easily stalled out into struggling by switching into the resisted hits exclusively and negating most if not all chip and then some.

Vish/Zolt FR/BB they only needed one move anyway lol

Mimikyu A pokemon with 3 immunities and a guaranteed setup of choice is nothing to scoff at in a meta where switching is this imperative disguise basically guarantees whatever support move you throw on this thing will happen at least twice, it's also not exactly slow for gen 8 standards, but that will very well change after this month.

Golisopod Choice banded leech life can lead to some real dirty double or triple-hitting shenanigans if played properly with emergency exit you might even get away with some spikes wimpod support

Eject Button/Pack similar to golisopod, easier to use, but one-time only. Eject pack could be especially lethal with moves like overheat, draco meteor, cc, superpower, or leaf storm.
 
Pokermon (working title)

Metagame Premise:
RNG, one of the most infamous mechanics in all of video games, has been one of Pokemon’s most frustrating mechanics. Many players have lost Pokemon and entire games because of a miss, a critical hit, and a flinch neither player could see coming. But what if they could see the RNG in their hands? In this metagame, you can see what you will roll when picking a move.
Potential bans and threats:
Due to the nature of this metagame, the Potential bans and Threats come down to moves and abilities.
As an example, Dynamic Punch/Inferno/Zap Cannon all have 50% accuracy and 100% to Confuse/Burn/Paralyze an opponent on contact. If you can tell when these powerful moves will miss, then the only downside is that you may not be able to spam it (which is still RNG, just that you can see it).

Another potential problem is Freeze. This status condition is extremely powerful and is reserved for some Ice moves and never beyond a 10% chance of happening. In this metagame, you can just tell when you are going to Freeze an opponent.
Questions for the community:
  • What would be the best way to display to players what rolls they got?
  • Should the opponent’s RNG also be displayed?
  • How should abilities with Random Factors such as Flame Body or Cute Charm be handled?
 
Exausted​
Metagame premise: max PP are divided by 8
Strategy: stall is a bad strategy as you end up struggling faster (12 turns for chansey with toxic, stealth rock, softboiled and seismic toss for example). Setup is hard to play as you have only 4 sword dances so you have to be careful. PP stall might be effective though
Unbans: dracovish as he can't sweep the whole team with fishious rend
Baton pass because setup is risky.
Question for community:
Should PP be quatered instead of being divided by 8?
 
stall is a bad strategy as you end up struggling faster (12 turns for chansey with toxic, stealth rock, softboiled and seismic toss for example)
You said yourself later that PP stall will be a thing. Stall teams both tend to use moves with higher PP than offensive teams, and tend to switch much more often, conserving PP. They also have Regenerator mons that can heal without using PP. Even if this meta somehow doesn't end up being nothing but stall, I still don't see it being very interesting. And the unbans are just absurd.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
is a Tiering Contributor
Exausted​
Metagame premise: max PP are divided by 8
Strategy: stall is a bad strategy as you end up struggling faster (12 turns for chansey with toxic, stealth rock, softboiled and seismic toss for example). Setup is hard to play as you have only 4 sword dances so you have to be careful. PP stall might be effective though
Unbans: dracovish as he can't sweep the whole team with fishious rend
Baton pass because setup is risky.
Question for community:
Should PP be quatered instead of being divided by 8?
I think this metagame will frequently lead to the scenario where the game never ends because both players' best play is to endlessly switch, either because they are out of PP or to preserve the PP they have. It would need to punish or prevent switching somehow to avoid this.
 

Best Gal

once upon a time wont last forever
Perhaps an effect similar to Grudge or Spite could be the penalty for switching? Previous move you used gets PP reduced to 0. This wouldn't be triggered by phazing, I imagine.
 

Sectonia

shattering expectations to forge a new reality
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Perhaps an effect similar to Grudge or Spite could be the penalty for switching? Previous move you used gets PP reduced to 0. This wouldn't be triggered by phazing, I imagine.
This would only exacerbate the problems even more. A different solution would be needed, one that makes going for endless games less likely. There's no right way to approach this, but at the same time, I think this metagame would come down to pp stall and then trying to switch to make games last as long as you can, because struggle is just awful. Also, if there's any penalty to switching relating to health, then Regenerator needs to be banned.
 
An alternative solution for the PP one: maybe make it so Pokémon don't consume PP on turns when the other player has switched out?
That seems like it solves the endless switching problem right away - if someone switches, they're letting their opponent use a move for free, and they're not gaining a PP advantage because the other player isn't losing any PP either.
(You could reference the way Stakeout is implemented to apply this condition!)
 
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