Yes we can do this, It was juste a proposition, I have to solution : redirect dark and Steel type in normal type or redirect Steel type in a physical type similary and redirect Dark type in a spécial type similary
Dude, this sounds hype. It's just hard reads every single turn.Dodge BallMetagame premise: a 6x6 single battle, each mon must have only one move, after both pokémon switches out they will use automatically its only move, you can also dont switch out and just use the move again, the battles will be basically you switching your team predicting the pokemon oponent will switch, imagine it like a rotation battle of 6 pokemon with one move each. The idea is you are throwing the pokeball directly in the face of your oponent so your pokemon attacks it imediatelly hence 'dodge ball' :P This meta has the objective to play like a 1vs1 but using 6 pokemon (LOL). the auto attack is not made if a pokemon comes out from a fainted pokemon. Protect moves are obviosly banned.
View attachment 248177
Potential bans and threats: Based on some mock battles I tested choice items, knock off, justified, heavy duty boots, hazard, draco meteor, fairy, flash fire and overheart is what i presume the meta will revolves around. Theres two ways to handle switch moves/items: ban completely or just dont do the auto move if the switch comes from a switch move/item. bulk offense and fast hyper offense is probably the best ways to deal in this meta with lot of choice items. Hazards can be useful because of the switches, but renders one of your pokemon useless after set it, so is a trade off you must think well if you are going to risk it, ferrothorn is a good stealth setter since it can come with rocky helmet and iron barbs to sap opponents and dont be a dead weight, but it is an easy prey to rotom-heat overheat. Toxic spikes cannot be as useful because is a whole slot that can be easily dispached by a oposing poison mon. Surprisely normal poison is better than toxic since rarely a pokemon will stay on field. Knock off band can be very good, not only taking off oposing choices but also causing heavy damage, i started to test terrakion itemless justified which worked surprisey well surviving the knockoff and dealing massive close combats, fairy mons also could easily eat the knock off and countering with moonblast, dragapult is particulary dangerous since it can 2ko lot of mons with draco meteor or shadow ball, but since both sets have imunities it is a matter of player finds out which set it has and work around imunities. From some of my tests it worked well, is a very fast game heavily based on predicts because of how offensive it is since you have no slots for waste on status move, but i wonder how community would play it.
Questions for the community: is it looks fun? say ways that the meta could be broken (probably theres many needed bans to balance it)
This sounds like a great metagame! I assume that the physical/special split will be revoked also (i.e. all normal moves are physical, all water moves are special, etc.)? In regards to fixing types, I think Hematite made a great suggestion in his reply:RetromonIntroduction :
Have you ever dream that Regice have 150 base special attack ? that spam Hyper Beam with Slaking ? or that use a Dragapult who haven't dragon moves ? If you think that, the Retromon tier is for you !
This tier is based on the mechanics of first gen but with all the existing Pokemon.
Rules :
-The Special stat of generation since gen two is the average of the Special Attack and the Special Defense (excepted for the evolutions of first gen Pokemon who have their Special based on the statistic who based the Special of their pre-evolutions, for example, Tangrowth have 110 Special)
-The moves from gen 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 are banned, abilities are banned and EVs are maximized.
-First gen moves have their effects in first gen (Psychic have 33% chance to low the special, Blizzard have 90 accuracy...).
-The Pokemon cannot take items.
-Dark, Steel and Fairy types are deleted for the Pokemon who have a double type. If the Pokemon have only one type, Dark type is Psychic type, Steel type is Rock type and Fairy type is Normal type.
-Critical hits are based on the speed.
-Freeze is definetely.
-And more.
Ban :
Pokemon :
Mewtwo-Ho-Oh-Lugia-Regice-Groudon-Kyogre-Rayquazza-Deoxys-Deoxys Attack-Deoxys Defense-Deoxys Speed-Dialga-Palkia-Giratina-Arceus-Reshiram-Zekrom-Xerneas--Yveltal-Solgaleo-Lunala-Necrozma Dusk Manes-Necrozma Dawn Wings-Eternatos
Moves :
Sand Attack-Smokescreen-Confuse Ray (Haxx is very present in gen 1)
Examples
Mantine
- Amnesia
- Blizzard
- Surf
- Substitute
- (80+140)/2=110 Special
Slaking
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Seismic Toss
- (95+65)/2=80 Special
Regice
- Blizzard
- Amnesia
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave/Explosion
- (100+200)/2=150 Special
Ps: I'm french so my english is not awesome
It's totally up to you whether to take this or not, but I do have a small suggestion on this part!
So far, for all of the Pokémon that have gained these types (Magnemite and all of Gen VI's Fairy-types), Pokémon with the new type as their primary (or only) type were originally Normal-type, while Pokémon with the new type as a secondary type were originally single-typed.
(For example, Togekiss, which is currently Fairy/Flying, was originally Normal/Flying, and Clefable, which is currently pure Fairy, was originally pure Normal; on the other hand, Magnemite, which is currently Electric/Steel, was originally just Electric.)
I think this might be a good way to handle these type changes, since Psychic may not make sense for every Dark-type and Rock may not make sense for every Steel-type.
(This would make a Pokémon like Honchkrow Normal/Flying, while Pokémon like Tapu Koko would be pure Electric. It would also make sure that every Pokémon that has changed type goes back to its original type.)
I would also consider banning all trapping moves. Fire spin and the like had the effect of disabling the opponent's ability to attack in Gen 1, which would be really imbalanced. Other than that, definitely seems like a fun idea!
Ban :
Pokemon :
Mewtwo-Ho-Oh-Lugia-Regice-Groudon-Kyogre-Rayquazza-Deoxys-Deoxys Attack-Deoxys Defense-Deoxys Speed-Dialga-Palkia-Giratina-Arceus-Reshiram-Zekrom-Xerneas--Yveltal-Solgaleo-Lunala-Necrozma Dusk Manes-Necrozma Dawn Wings-Eternatos
Moves :
Sand Attack-Smokescreen-Confuse Ray (Haxx is very present in gen 1)
Would Fishous Rend or Bolt Beak get the boost on switch-in?Dodge BallMetagame premise: a 6x6 single battle, each mon must have only one move, after both pokémon switches out they will use automatically its only move, you can also dont switch out and just use the move again, the battles will be basically you switching your team predicting the pokemon oponent will switch, imagine it like a rotation battle of 6 pokemon with one move each. The idea is you are throwing the pokeball directly in the face of your oponent so your pokemon attacks it imediatelly hence 'dodge ball' :P This meta has the objective to play like a 1vs1 but using 6 pokemon (LOL). the auto attack is not made if a pokemon comes out from a fainted pokemon. Protect moves are obviosly banned.
View attachment 248177
Potential bans and threats: Based on some mock battles I tested choice items, knock off, justified, heavy duty boots, hazard, draco meteor, fairy, flash fire and overheart is what i presume the meta will revolves around. Theres two ways to handle switch moves/items: ban completely or just dont do the auto move if the switch comes from a switch move/item. bulk offense and fast hyper offense is probably the best ways to deal in this meta with lot of choice items. Hazards can be useful because of the switches, but renders one of your pokemon useless after set it, so is a trade off you must think well if you are going to risk it, ferrothorn is a good stealth setter since it can come with rocky helmet and iron barbs to sap opponents and dont be a dead weight, but it is an easy prey to rotom-heat overheat. Toxic spikes cannot be as useful because is a whole slot that can be easily dispached by a oposing poison mon. Surprisely normal poison is better than toxic since rarely a pokemon will stay on field. Knock off band can be very good, not only taking off oposing choices but also causing heavy damage, i started to test terrakion itemless justified which worked surprisey well surviving the knockoff and dealing massive close combats, fairy mons also could easily eat the knock off and countering with moonblast, dragapult is particulary dangerous since it can 2ko lot of mons with draco meteor or shadow ball, but since both sets have imunities it is a matter of player finds out which set it has and work around imunities. From some of my tests it worked well, is a very fast game heavily based on predicts because of how offensive it is since you have no slots for waste on status move, but i wonder how community would play it.
Questions for the community: is it looks fun? say ways that the meta could be broken (probably theres many needed bans to balance it)
every other % effect is relatively reduced so i dont see why hazards wouldn'tHowever, damage taken from entry hazard remains the same because they cannot interact with Dynamax at all as Dynamax would immediately be over as soon as the Pokemon switches out.
To be frank, this meta is basically "what if dynamax was permanent?" and it's an idea that's been brought up a few times, but this isn't really a significant stand out compared to the rest. All this meta does is encourages fat teams to thrive, and in some cases, would make set up spam really strong, as that + 1.5x health is just disastrous. Personally, I wouldn't think this is unique enough as an OM to really be considered.Fatmon
Metagame Premise: In Fatmon, every Pokemon has its HP multiplied by x1.5. The boosted HP works similarly to how Dynamax interacts with recoil and recovery (They would've taken less from Life Orb recoil but Leftovers would also heal less). However, damage taken from entry hazard remains the same because they cannot interact with Dynamax at all as Dynamax would immediately be over as soon as the Pokemon switches out.
Potential bans and threats:
Weakness Policy would need to be banned as soon as possible as most of the Pokemon are fat enough to take a super-effective and make good use of the boost from it. Other than that, not much else I can think of.
Questions to the community:
- Will Fatmon gather enough interest to stand out on its own?
- Should Fatmon have something to balance it? I would've suggested making Pokemon lose the HP boost if they switched out, but that will make Roar and Whirlwind broken.
Came up with some cool stuff for Dodge Ball.
In current OU, Aegislash usually runs a Choice item, with the great bulk of its Shield form just being a temporary buffer against faster foes. This playstyle is accentuated in this meta.
This gen buffed Rapid Spin to 50 power. While that's still weak, it's at least strong enough to function as an attack, so it isn't completely worthless outside of clearing hazards. The three Pokemon pictured have the strongest Rapid Spins. Excadrill has the best typing, Hitmontop has a bit more power thanks to Technician, and Komala, while unreleased, has the strongest due to STAB.
Fake Out needs to be banned, or at the very least limited to one per team. Otherwise, you can just switch back and forth between Fake Out users, and unless your opponent has a Ghost-type or something with Inner Focus or Shield Dust, there's fuck all they can do about it. Protective Pads means they can't even retaliate with Rocky Helmet and the like.
First Impression is also buffed. Swarm might be worth using over Hustle for Durant, as it provides the same 50% power boost to First Impression. It's a question of whether you want the power boost immediately at the cost of a 20% miss rate, or need to rely on Durant getting to low health for the boost.
You mentioned uncertainty over how to handle U-turn and Volt Switch. I'm not sure either, but if you go with "automove only triggers with hard switches", then fast pivot moves are still very powerful. If you hard switch into Ninjask, it will immediately U-turn back out, and because this will before the opponent attacks but after they switch, and because each Pokemon can only use a single attack, you can very easily switch into something to comfortably tank whatever attack is coming. It's like regular fast U-turns, but even better. Because you go do it by hard switching into Ninjask, it effectively gives everything on your team access to a fast U-turn, and your opponent can't even play around it by predicting the U-turn and attacking what's coming in, because with the smallest amount of scouting, you know exactly what move they're about to use. The only reason I can think of for not banning them regardless of how they work is that slow U-turns aren't nearly as busted, but I don't think that's a good enough reason.
How does Imposter Ditto work? Does it automatically use whatever its new attack is, or does it automatically try to use Transform and then fail because it doesn't know Transform anymore?
Reuniclus is currently the only offensive Pokemon with Regenerator, and Future Sight could be a neat tech.
Arcanine can use Burn Up to land a powerful hit, though it forfeits the option to stay in and attack again.
Regarding the Gen 1 mechanics idea, it's not going to work. There have been several variations of this idea pitched in the past, and none of them that I've seen have become playable metas (not "playable" as in "balanced and fun to play", but as in "someone has actually coded this so it's able to be played"). And this newest version is so horribly subjective that it's even less likely to become a thing than its predecesors. New types get replaced with arbitrarily chosen old types, except when they aren't? The special stat is determined by a formula, except when it isn't? Sand Attack and Confuse Ray are banned even though they've never been an problem in any generation, including Gen 1?
Even if the idea was polished, "gen 1 mechanics" is such a nebulous change that there's no way in hell that it would ever become an OM. Its only chance at existence is as a Pet Mod.
Thankyu for both analysis! The points you gave is exactly what I was looking for! Fake out is definitively worth a ban, to be honest it was the first thing that I came up worth a ban, but i completely forgot it when I was writing. Even at 1 limit, it is a stressful move, because you keep wasting turns having hp sapped every other turn, I don't think it is a healthy move, still I think it deserves a test at 1 first. Also about volt turn, the best argument I can give about volt is volt absorb and ground imunities, it straight foward becomes a somewat more risk move because you probably will lost a whole mon if switch into a stabed earthquake, sure it is very good when executed, but theres various good mons that can block it, a 6:1 chance is still worthable to run a specs zeraora, also having it supported by flying/levitate would leave to many 50/50 situations, but again I would like to test and before, banning it a limit of 1 i think is worth a test too, U-turn actually looks more overpowered, initially the lack of heavy stab hitters limiting to ninjask made it didnt look that scare, because of stealth rocks, ninjask has to run boots and dealing less damage, but banded dragapult has a stronger u-turn than boots ninjask, with more bulk and better defensive typing, what makes it a meta staple. About ditto I need to look more carefully at the code, but Im thinking about implementing an auto select funcion at same time moves are open for user choice, so imposter activates then it attacks using the copied move, since imposter activates before moves are able to select. About traps, well that shedinja trap looks much like wrap in generation 1, and well everybody know how that was unfun, ofc it straight makes the meta unhealthy, its completely ban worth, other traps maybe arent that good because probably you will take more damage than receive, unless you pick a rocks setter or a spinner, btw the avaiable spinners doesnt look worth of a slot, still to low damage and easy blockable by ghosts, mainly dragapult.Would Fishous Rend or Bolt Beak get the boost on switch-in?
Either way, seems cool. Like you said, it's like 1v1 but 6 moves and 6 different typings. Wack
Since Knock Off is so good, Sticky Hold is great in this meta so Gastrodon can still have some form of recovery. Scald seems like Gastro's best option, but if Water Absorb becomes common because of Dracovish, Pain Split and Infestation exist. Speaking of Infestation...
I'm not exactly sure how trapping moves are going to work, but my guess is that they work as usual: if the user stays in, the opponent is trapped. That means the opponent can be predicted for one turn, since they have no choice but to stay in to use their only move, meaning the user has a high chance to KO the next turn (along with getting extra chip damage). Of course, U-turn and Volt Switch counter this (if it is implemented as Dr. Pumpkinz suggests) but this brings me to my next mon...
Probably the best trapper. Since Knock Off would be so common, it would be hard to switch in, but once you scout around for your opponent's moves, Shedinja becomes especially dangerous. It can trap on switch-in with Infestation, and, because of Wonder Guard nullifying U-turn and Volt Switch, the opponent has no choice but to stay in the next turn. Consider banning (Shedinja or trapping moves).
I'll update this post if I think of anything else
You said yourself later that PP stall will be a thing. Stall teams both tend to use moves with higher PP than offensive teams, and tend to switch much more often, conserving PP. They also have Regenerator mons that can heal without using PP. Even if this meta somehow doesn't end up being nothing but stall, I still don't see it being very interesting. And the unbans are just absurd.stall is a bad strategy as you end up struggling faster (12 turns for chansey with toxic, stealth rock, softboiled and seismic toss for example)
I think this metagame will frequently lead to the scenario where the game never ends because both players' best play is to endlessly switch, either because they are out of PP or to preserve the PP they have. It would need to punish or prevent switching somehow to avoid this.ExaustedMetagame premise: max PP are divided by 8
Strategy: stall is a bad strategy as you end up struggling faster (12 turns for chansey with toxic, stealth rock, softboiled and seismic toss for example). Setup is hard to play as you have only 4 sword dances so you have to be careful. PP stall might be effective though
Unbans: dracovish as he can't sweep the whole team with fishious rend
Baton pass because setup is risky.
Question for community:
Should PP be quatered instead of being divided by 8?
This would only exacerbate the problems even more. A different solution would be needed, one that makes going for endless games less likely. There's no right way to approach this, but at the same time, I think this metagame would come down to pp stall and then trying to switch to make games last as long as you can, because struggle is just awful. Also, if there's any penalty to switching relating to health, then Regenerator needs to be banned.Perhaps an effect similar to Grudge or Spite could be the penalty for switching? Previous move you used gets PP reduced to 0. This wouldn't be triggered by phazing, I imagine.