Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

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Totally Healthy (Can't think of anything that fits)

Premise: Base HP of all of your Pokemon is added together, and the first team that eliminates all of the total HP wins. No pokemon faints/becomes unusable.

Banlist/Potential Threats:
  • Hazards probably have to be nerfed, maybe lower the percentage or make it deal base damage. IDK about toxic spikes but first layer seems more threatening than second layers.
  • I don't know if set-up moves would be overpowered. Revenge sweepers are kind of useless now so you would need a counter not a check. Belly drum halving the entire HP of your team would be interesting but not very effective?
    • Since setting up has relatively much less risk, choice items would be nerfed?
  • Recovery moves and other HP based moves would probably only be calculated on your or the other mon. This implies a healing cap as well
    • Examples: 50% healing moves, Leech Seed, Dream Eater, Rest, Endeavor, Shell Bell, Leftovers, Grassy terrain, Iron barbs, Rocky helmet, I guess Shell Bell and Protective Pads would be buffed
    • Volt absorb and its copies would also have a cap
    • Healing wish could be so the mon that uses it is unusable and the mon that comes out gives +HP to the entire team based on its max HP? Or damaged HP?
Questions:
  • How should I deal with abilities that boost a stat after killing a mon
    • Maybe after dealing X damage such as 400?
    • Or base it off if u deal the damage to supposedly faint the opposing mons current HP?
  • How would you nerf Regenerator? Pretty sure it's the only unfair/bannable mechanic.
    • If you would argue that it's not that bad, I would say it would make the metagame reallly boring
  • Would Blissey be balanced? It adds huge amounts of HP and is a special wall, but it allows physical mons to set-up
  • Would Shedinja be balanced?
    • It has garbage defenses and you're basically playing with the health of 5 mons, but isn't it such an easy switch in for free chip or set-up.
  • Would paraspam be annoying? Or maybe some cleric is always needed in the team?
(also if this has been done before can i pweaseee suggest another one i have in mind)
I think everything that is based on percentage of HP should be based on the HP of the mon that is currently out rather than total HP of the team. Arbitrarily declaring that some moves/abilities are based on percentage of team HP and others are based on percentage of individual HP would make it a pet mod, and having everything based on team HP would likely result in more broken things as you noted with Recover/Regenerator/Volt Absorb/etc (if it's based on individual HP, Belly Drum is the only thing that is obviously broken).

Also it seems like trapping would be very strong. I think at a minimum all trapping abilities including Magnet Pull should be banned and all trapping moves should be on the watchlist.
 
I got a suggestion: Zmons
This brings back z crystals into normal play
Recently added moves would recive power/+effect based on gen 7's effects

Ex: Clangerous soul will now reset negitive stat changes before adding stats

As for older moves they retain their original z effects

As far as bans go im pretty sure gal darmanitan zen will be banned because of belly drum's effect

The meta should be uber because ultra necrosma would be brought back
 
You can't specifically nerf things in the meta based on your choosing otherwise it would be a pet mod. A om is using a set of base rules and playing with them, no extra nerfing shit. If you think it's broken or unfair, ban it.
Thanks, didn't know what a petmod was (why is it called that)

I think everything that is based on percentage of HP should be based on the HP of the mon that is currently out rather than total HP of the team. Arbitrarily declaring that some moves/abilities are based on percentage of team HP and others are based on percentage of individual HP would make it a pet mod, and having everything based on team HP would likely result in more broken things as you noted with Recover/Regenerator/Volt Absorb/etc (if it's based on individual HP, Belly Drum is the only thing that is obviously broken).

Also it seems like trapping would be very strong. I think at a minimum all trapping abilities including Magnet Pull should be banned and all trapping moves should be on the watchlist.
Yea that makes sense. Though to be fair, Magneton would only destroy Ferrothorn, Bisharp, and Skarmory without Shed Shell. Why would you not give U-turn to Corviknight and Scizor or EQ to Melmetal. But yeah would still ban, also belly drum.

I got a suggestion: Zmons
This brings back z crystals into normal play
Recently added moves would recive power/+effect based on gen 7's effects

Ex: Clangerous soul will now reset negitive stat changes before adding stats

As for older moves they retain their original z effects

As far as bans go im pretty sure gal darmanitan zen will be banned because of belly drum's effect

The meta should be uber because ultra necrosma would be brought back
Would you allow gmax since it's ubers? Either way, why not just add back megas to just make it Ubers but with Gen 7 mechanics. Personally I think it's weird if it's only going to be Z-moves since for me they were the lamest of the new mechanics compared to megas and gmax. Actually this may be a good thing since they're the most balanced.
 
I think of instead of banning mons in this teir (to some extent), they should be prevented from holding any z crystals

I also think that the entire team sould be able to use z moves, but once per mon. This can also become broken, so im not sure.

I understand what u mean. What if the z crystal effected the holders type like in mnm.
Ex: Darmanitan used z belly drum and then after the affects of belly drum took place and darm reheals it becomes a normal type

Also no gmax since the max status moves all become max guard and some of the max attacking moves have powers that were non existant in gen 7
Ex: Corviknight dmax with air slash becomes gmax wind rage w/ a power of 130 which to my knowledge does not match any gen 7 moves

If im wrong then yes with gmax, unless there is any other max move like this

Im open to megas but the problem would occur with rayquazza. If there was dynamax, and mega evolution, then ray could undergo both mega evolution and dmax, and finaly use inferno over drive w/ >220 power (which is the base power it has with the base move v create and is the highest damaging z move) and demolish the opponent and have no negitive stat changes or recoil (unless taget uses spike shield, is holding a rocky helmet, or has either rough skin or iron barbs. So in a sence ray would be too powerful if it was allowed both mega and dmax.

also a name suggestion for Totaly Healty is: Healthmons

F
I understand what u mean. What if the z crystal effected the holders type like in mnm.
Ex: Darmanitan used z belly drum and then after the affects of belly drum took place and darm reheals it becomes a normal type
Further going into this i think that instead of working like mnm it should work like bonus type and add to already existing types on the mon and applying them before the z move is used, enabling STAB.

Libero would have to be banned because the typing would then disappear.

So in summery
Zmon rules are:
1. Any and all pokemon can hold z crystals and perform z moves (with some bans or restrictions)
2. All members of your party can use 1 z move per mon
3. the move will add an additional type to the mon based on the type of the z move before the move is executed, granting STAB.
4. If the z move's type already matches one of the users types the user becomes pure that type
5. Only one member of your party can mega evolve, and dynamax. Both on the same mon and the mon must mega evolve with its own stone as in gen 7. Orbs count as mega evolving.
6. uber bans exept zacian hero (who cant use z moves). Rayquazza is baned from mega evolving (since mega Ray was also banned from ubers), but can dmax.
7. Pokemon who cant use z moves can still change type by holding a plate
8. Pokemon who are banned from using z moves are: Calyrex (shadow), zacian (hero), and some potential others.
9. Zacian (Crowned) is banned from the meta entirely (no offense).

An example set up: https://pokepast.es/a84feecee003e9b1
Its not perfect but its a view of a casual set up

The reason ubers can be allowed is because it would be nice to use ultra necrosma in gen 8 and that some other uber can use thier z moves and not be left out of strategic play.
Ex: Marshadow
 
and i oop--

Avoidance
probably a pet mod but jdgsddsgdfuhgjfdh

Premise: All damaging moves go through a Speed check to determine their power, and bypass accuracy checks.
based on a gacha game because my life is in shambles

Avoidance is based on Fire Emblem Heroes' avoidance mechanics present in the Fire Emblem series. In Fire Emblem, avoidance mechanics are simple: you're faster? Okay, your opponent probably won't hit you. In Fire Emblem Heroes, Avoidance skills grant their bearer a damage reduction buff (up to 40%) depending on the Speed difference between bearer and attacker.

In Avoidance, damage is calculated normally until the very last step: the effective Speed stats are compared much like how they are for Electro Ball and Gyro Ball damage calculation, and the following formula applies:

{[(Pokémon 1's effective Speed - 78) - (Pokémon 2's effective Speed)] /3}% = damage reduction applied. Damage reduction caps at 50%.

So, for example, if we have a max Speed Regieleki and a max Speed Excadrill, and Excadrill utilizes Earthquake, this would be the damage taken:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 578-684 (192 - 227.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's a dead Regieleki.

In Avoidance, the added damage reduction needs to be applied first:

{[(548 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[168] / 3}% = 53%
The cap is 50%, so Regieleki takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Let's go through another example. Let's say we have a Choice Scarf Dragapult instead of Regieleki this time.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 213-252 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

{[(631 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[251] /3}% = 83%
The cap is 50%, so Dragapult takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def / 252+ Spe Choice Scarf Dragapult: 108-127 (34 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Potential bans and threats: Most speedy Pokémon (Dragapult, weather abusers, Regieleki) seem to be what the metagame will revolve around, but a lack of good defensive measures against these threats is likely to warrant a ban. My biggest worry is definitely Sand Rush, as the added bulk in the form of Avoidance makes it difficult to check or properly revenge kill abusers such as Excadrill and Dracozolt. Set-up moves such as Agility and Shell Smash are unlikely to cause huge issues on their own, but certain abusers might need to be banned as well.

The main issue I see with this metagame is that, well, walls deal pitiful damage against what they're supposed to scare away:

0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def Alakazam: 392-464 (156.1 - 184.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

{[(372 - 78) - (168)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[126] /3}% = 42%
Alakazam reaches 42% damage reduction, below the 50% cap.

0 Atk / 40 Spe Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def / 252+ Spe Alakazam: 392-464 (90.6 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Edited because I forgot how to do math ksdgksdgnsdajgo

Which leads into my next point:

Questions for the community:
Do you believe the damage reduction formula is too ineffective?
Do you think the max reduction cap should be lowered to, say, 40%?
What would be the best approach when it comes to Trick Room? Should the Avoidance damage reduction be applied to the slower Pokémon?
Is this metagame too focused on EVing Pokémon correctly?
 
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Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
is a Tiering Contributor
I got a suggestion: Zmons
This brings back z crystals into normal play
Recently added moves would recive power/+effect based on gen 7's effects

Ex: Clangerous soul will now reset negitive stat changes before adding stats

As for older moves they retain their original z effects

As far as bans go im pretty sure gal darmanitan zen will be banned because of belly drum's effect

The meta should be uber because ultra necrosma would be brought back
this would probably be a petmod since its not part of swsh. mnm is barely considered an om anyway
 

Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
is a Tiering Contributor
and i oop--

Avoidance
probably a pet mod but jdgsddsgdfuhgjfdh

Premise: All damaging moves go through a Speed check to determine their power, and bypass accuracy checks.
based on a gacha game because my life is in shambles

Avoidance is based on Fire Emblem Heroes' avoidance mechanics present in the Fire Emblem series. In Fire Emblem, avoidance mechanics are simple: you're faster? Okay, your opponent probably won't hit you. In Fire Emblem Heroes, Avoidance skills grant their bearer a damage reduction buff (up to 40%) depending on the Speed difference between bearer and attacker.

In Avoidance, damage is calculated normally until the very last step: the effective Speed stats are compared much like how they are for Electro Ball and Gyro Ball damage calculation, and the following formula applies:

{[(Pokémon 1's effective Speed - 78) - (Pokémon 2's effective Speed)] /3}% = damage reduction applied. Damage reduction caps at 50%.

So, for example, if we have a max Speed Regieleki and a max Speed Excadrill, and Excadrill utilizes Earthquake, this would be the damage taken:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 578-684 (192 - 227.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's a dead Regieleki.

In Avoidance, the added damage reduction needs to be applied first:

{[(548 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[168] / 3}% = 53%
The cap is 50%, so Regieleki takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Let's go through another example. Let's say we have a Choice Scarf Dragapult instead of Regieleki this time.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 213-252 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

{[(631 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[251] /3}% = 83%
The cap is 50%, so Dragapult takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def / 252+ Spe Choice Scarf Dragapult: 108-127 (34 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Potential bans and threats: Most speedy Pokémon (Dragapult, weather abusers, Regieleki) seem to be what the metagame will revolve around, but a lack of good defensive measures against these threats is likely to warrant a ban. My biggest worry is definitely Sand Rush, as the added bulk in the form of Avoidance makes it difficult to check or properly revenge kill abusers such as Excadrill and Dracozolt. Set-up moves such as Agility and Shell Smash are unlikely to cause huge issues on their own, but certain abusers might need to be banned as well.

The main issue I see with this metagame is that, well, walls deal pitiful damage against what they're supposed to scare away:

0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def Alakazam: 392-464 (156.1 - 184.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

{[(372 - 78) - (168)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[126] /3}% = 42%
Alakazam reaches 42% damage reduction, below the 50% cap.

0 Atk / 40 Spe Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def / 252+ Spe Alakazam: 392-464 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Which leads into my next point:

Questions for the community:
Do you believe the damage reduction formula is too ineffective?
Do you think the max reduction cap should be lowered to, say, 40%?
What would be the best approach when it comes to Trick Room? Should the Avoidance damage reduction be applied to the slower Pokémon?
Is this metagame too focused on EVing Pokémon correctly?
I feel as if this is too reliant on speed and nothing else. Choice Scarf, Agility/SG/RP etc. would be incredibly scary to face and would most likely dominate the meta, where most speed-boosting move users are very bulky, creating an unenjoyable stall meta. I suggest lowering the max reduction down to 40% at the least because of this, but I personally suggest 35% reduction at the most or even a linear system of a cap of a certain amount of defence as to counter this. This isn't to say I dislike the idea, however.

Also trick room would probably be something to be concerned about too, considering that everything slow would now not only be faster than everything but also have an insane amount of bulk. I'd say half the Avoidance damage reduction when applied, but still keep it as a way of countering the likely weather/agility meta.

Overall it's a cool idea but I feel as if it could have a problematic meta. However, this could be easily be fixed with some bans and a good metagame staff team, so I think this wouldn't be a major issue. It would be a little upsetting if it's ruled as a petmod as it would see most of its gameplay on DragonHeaven, but I would think it wouldn't be. As I said before, it's a really cool idea, so don't take this as me trashing the idea.
 

Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
is a Tiering Contributor
In the summery i said that the z moves were like bonus type
I said it might be listed as a petmod because it's not actually possible to use in swsh, whereas bonus type extends on what is possible from trick-or-treat. Not to say it would be bad, though. I do fear that it would just be a smaller version of the current NatDex meta, however, so unfortunately I don't think this would get approved any time soon as we have this exact same idea with Megas on a larger scale without the extra added type.

Also this would make z-moves even more broken than before, and they already made some Pokémon overpowered.
 
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I think of instead of banning mons in this teir (to some extent), they should be prevented from holding any z crystals

I also think that the entire team sould be able to use z moves, but once per mon. This can also become broken, so im not sure.

I understand what u mean. What if the z crystal effected the holders type like in mnm.
Ex: Darmanitan used z belly drum and then after the affects of belly drum took place and darm reheals it becomes a normal type

Also no gmax since the max status moves all become max guard and some of the max attacking moves have powers that were non existant in gen 7
Ex: Corviknight dmax with air slash becomes gmax wind rage w/ a power of 130 which to my knowledge does not match any gen 7 moves

If im wrong then yes with gmax, unless there is any other max move like this

Im open to megas but the problem would occur with rayquazza. If there was dynamax, and mega evolution, then ray could undergo both mega evolution and dmax, and finaly use inferno over drive w/ >220 power (which is the base power it has with the base move v create and is the highest damaging z move) and demolish the opponent and have no negitive stat changes or recoil (unless taget uses spike shield, is holding a rocky helmet, or has either rough skin or iron barbs. So in a sence ray would be too powerful if it was allowed both mega and dmax.

also a name suggestion for Totaly Healty is: Healthmons

F

Further going into this i think that instead of working like mnm it should work like bonus type and add to already existing types on the mon and applying them before the z move is used, enabling STAB.

Libero would have to be banned because the typing would then disappear.

So in summery
Zmon rules are:
1. Any and all pokemon can hold z crystals and perform z moves (with some bans or restrictions)
2. All members of your party can use 1 z move per mon
3. the move will add an additional type to the mon based on the type of the z move before the move is executed, granting STAB.
4. If the z move's type already matches one of the users types the user becomes pure that type
5. Only one member of your party can mega evolve, and dynamax. Both on the same mon and the mon must mega evolve with its own stone as in gen 7. Orbs count as mega evolving.
6. uber bans exept zacian hero (who cant use z moves). Rayquazza is baned from mega evolving (since mega Ray was also banned from ubers), but can dmax.
7. Pokemon who cant use z moves can still change type by holding a plate
8. Pokemon who are banned from using z moves are: Calyrex (shadow), zacian (hero), and some potential others.
9. Zacian (Crowned) is banned from the meta entirely (no offense).

An example set up: https://pokepast.es/a84feecee003e9b1
Its not perfect but its a view of a casual set up

The reason ubers can be allowed is because it would be nice to use ultra necrosma in gen 8 and that some other uber can use thier z moves and not be left out of strategic play.
Ex: Marshadow
Yeah what clasmia said. But I think the whole complex added typings and stuff is not just confusing but just also really overpowered. Everyone having z-moves would be fun as fuck but that's so much power that I would probably ban Dynamax. Also the name Healthmons is pretty vague.

and i oop--

Avoidance
probably a pet mod but jdgsddsgdfuhgjfdh

Premise: All damaging moves go through a Speed check to determine their power, and bypass accuracy checks.
based on a gacha game because my life is in shambles

Avoidance is based on Fire Emblem Heroes' avoidance mechanics present in the Fire Emblem series. In Fire Emblem, avoidance mechanics are simple: you're faster? Okay, your opponent probably won't hit you. In Fire Emblem Heroes, Avoidance skills grant their bearer a damage reduction buff (up to 40%) depending on the Speed difference between bearer and attacker.

In Avoidance, damage is calculated normally until the very last step: the effective Speed stats are compared much like how they are for Electro Ball and Gyro Ball damage calculation, and the following formula applies:

{[(Pokémon 1's effective Speed - 78) - (Pokémon 2's effective Speed)] /3}% = damage reduction applied. Damage reduction caps at 50%.

So, for example, if we have a max Speed Regieleki and a max Speed Excadrill, and Excadrill utilizes Earthquake, this would be the damage taken:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 578-684 (192 - 227.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's a dead Regieleki.

In Avoidance, the added damage reduction needs to be applied first:

{[(548 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[168] / 3}% = 53%
The cap is 50%, so Regieleki takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Let's go through another example. Let's say we have a Choice Scarf Dragapult instead of Regieleki this time.

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 213-252 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

{[(631 - 78) - (302)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[251] /3}% = 83%
The cap is 50%, so Dragapult takes 50% less damage.

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def / 252+ Spe Choice Scarf Dragapult: 108-127 (34 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Potential bans and threats: Most speedy Pokémon (Dragapult, weather abusers, Regieleki) seem to be what the metagame will revolve around, but a lack of good defensive measures against these threats is likely to warrant a ban. My biggest worry is definitely Sand Rush, as the added bulk in the form of Avoidance makes it difficult to check or properly revenge kill abusers such as Excadrill and Dracozolt. Set-up moves such as Agility and Shell Smash are unlikely to cause huge issues on their own, but certain abusers might need to be banned as well.

The main issue I see with this metagame is that, well, walls deal pitiful damage against what they're supposed to scare away:

0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def Alakazam: 392-464 (156.1 - 184.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

{[(372 - 78) - (168)] /3}% = damage reduction applied
{[126] /3}% = 42%
Alakazam reaches 42% damage reduction, below the 50% cap.

0 Atk / 40 Spe Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def / 252+ Spe Alakazam: 392-464 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Which leads into my next point:

Questions for the community:
Do you believe the damage reduction formula is too ineffective?
Do you think the max reduction cap should be lowered to, say, 40%?
What would be the best approach when it comes to Trick Room? Should the Avoidance damage reduction be applied to the slower Pokémon?
Is this metagame too focused on EVing Pokémon correctly?
If the formula gets a negative number (i.e. Ferrothorn could have an effective speed of fucking 76), would they have damage promotion?? Surely not, right.

After doing some calcs, defensive mons with below average speed would be super bulky against decently fast mons. Let's do Corviknight with Max EVs in speed and a positive nature to speed vs. Hydreigon with max EVs in speed and also a plus nature to speed.

{[(256 - 78) - (324)] /3}% = 70% (50%)
Let's do Zeraora (also with max everything)

{[(256 - 78) - (423)] /3}% = 37%

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Spe Corviknight: (44 - 53%)

Give Corv Leftovers and that's probably not a 2HKO, and now you're giving average to fast defensive mons like every bird (Corv, Skarm, Mandi, Zap) effectively all of their damages being halved. Of course that comes at the trade-off of dealing barely any damage to the other (which I assume would be low), but that's not a good trade-off since your usage of defensive mons would be only using them for non-damaging shit and stalling which not only limits their movepool but it's just plain boring.

But anyways assuming you get a better formula, the core concept has a lot of pros and cons for me.

Bans:
  • Don't know why you're worried about sand when there are way more mons with swift swim and chlorophyll. I'd probably ban weather altogether unless you want hail to have some viability for once​
  • Ban Unburden lol​
  • I honestly think moves like dd, shift gear, quiver dance, and agility would have to banned IDK. It's essentially ancient power boosts. Imagine Multiscale Dragonite with dragon dance and roost, or Volcarona with quiver dance (and roost). Maybe you would just ban the mon and not the move​
  • You'd probably have to deal with paraspam and sticky web somehow. I would ban them altogether. I'd also ban Zapdos because static​
  • Not sure if you'd ban blunder policy since it's so inconsistent​

Cons:
  • I agree it would probably revolve around speedy mons, but that also makes trick room really powerful
    • Which implies bulky / slow offensive mons only deal damage under trick room​
    • This also means that you kind of need some sort of trick room control/setter in every team. I like trick room to be viable but not when it limits teambuilding​
  • Game could be extremely slow since everyone is so bulky
    • A mon with 70 base speed (max everything) has 50% reduction against a mon with 100 base speed
Pros:
  • I think if the formula gets it right, games would be much slower in a good way. Good way as in not everyone mon has to be one shot to win while defensive mons are not bulky
    • I think the point of the formula was so that equal speed matchups in the higher speed tiers aren't so high stakes where one mon has to switch or get one shot. So a damage reduction between mons with similar speed would have much less risks and those marginal differences in base speeds don't matter as much
    • But at the same time I don't want that damage reduction to be had for the slower and bulkier mons in the lower speed tiers since those fights are already slow. So I think you would have to have a formula that accomplishes all of this.
 
If the formula gets a negative number (i.e. Ferrothorn could have an effective speed of fucking 76), would they have damage promotion?? Surely not, right.
This was something I'd considered while messing around with the idea, but it seems a little pointless because it'd ultimately cause even damage and the metagame would just be uninteresting. Ignoring damage reduction was an idea I had in mind, and probably what Trick Room's impact on Avoidance mechanics would be.

  • Not sure if you'd ban blunder policy since it's so inconsistent​
The Avoidance mechanic's goal is to serve as a RNG-free alternative to accuracy, so all non-Status moves bypass any sort of accuracy checks. Blunder Policy would only activate on Status moves, in that case.

After listening to everyone's thoughts on the idea, it seems clear that both the damage reduction cap and the formula itself need to be changed.

If two Pokémon are on the field, the faster of them takes reduced damage, following the formula of:
{[(Faster Pokémon's effective speed - 80) - (Slower Pokémon's effective speed)] /4}% = damage reduction applied
Or, for the mathheads out there, if x > y, [(x - 80) - y]/4 = Z%
Damage reduction caps at 40%. If both have the same Speed stat, no reduction applies.

That 80 is the average base Speed stat of all fully evolved Pokémon. The previous formula erroneously used 78, which... shouldn't make much of a difference.

:ss/Regieleki: vs. :bw/Excadrill:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 578-684 (192 - 227.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

{[(548 - 80) - (302)] /4}% = DR
{[166] /4}% = 41% (rounded down). Caps at 40, so Regieleki takes 40% less damage.

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def / 252+ Spe Regieleki: (115.8 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dead, as it should be.

:ss/Dragapult: vs. :bw/Excadrill:

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 213-252 (67.1 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

{[(631 - 80) - (302)] /4}% = DR
{[249] /4}% = 62% (rounded down). Caps at 40, so Dragapult takes 40% less damage.

252 Atk / 252+ Spe Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def / 252+ Spe Choice Scarf Dragapult: (40.3 - 47.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

:bw/Alakazam: vs. :bw/Tyranitar:
0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def Alakazam: 392-464 (156.1 - 184.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


{[(372 - 80) - (168)] /4}% = DR
{[124] /4}% = 31%.

0 Atk / 40 Spe Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 28 Def / 252+ Spe Alakazam: 392-464 (93.7 - 110.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Super-effective hits should still deal huge damage, but most neutral hits should deal slightly less damage.
For Speed-boosting moves, I feel abusers should be taken care of first. Stuff like Dragonite and Volcarona will definitely be strong, and likely to warrant a ban. With a lowered DR cap, stall shouldn't be that big of an issue. I'd imagine semi-TR teams would become an issue later down the line, though.

EDIT: Decided to include some sample sets!

:bw/Chandelure:
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Inferno
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Memento

With Infiltrator bypassing extra protection in the form of Screens, Scarf Chandelure can dish huge amounts of damage while crippling Physical attackers with its Inferno. Memento is a great backup tool when sweepers end up out of hand, and Chandelure's already been heavily damaged.

:ss/Corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers / Weakness Policy
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 76 SpD / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Agility
- Bulk Up
- Power Trip
- Iron Head / Roost

Corviknight can take advantage of its access to Power Trip and become a threatening sweeping force. 172 Speed EVs with a Jolly Nature allow it to outpace Max Speed Dragapult and Max Speed Dragonite after Dragon Dance, provided Corvi has used Agility once.
 
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Clas

My death was... greatly exaggerated
is a Tiering Contributor
The Avoidance mechanic's goal is to serve as a RNG-free alternative to accuracy, so all non-Status moves bypass any sort of accuracy checks. Blunder Policy would only activate on Status moves, in that case.
Sleep scares me now...100% accurate Lovely Kiss dear god no thanks lol


Sleep aside I honestly think it would make the game more enjoyable as a whole, though a lot of moves would have to be banned, both damaging and status. Overall I really hope this gets approved though!
 
I have an idea for a "TCG" inspired metagame, using the boxes format. A little bit similar to "first blood", I think.

Rules:

- Each player is allowed a box team of up to 24 mons
- A player loses when 6 of his pokémon are defeated, or he runs out of pokémon.

Problems:

-Switching might be very frequent in this meta. I think a way of limiting switching or discouraging frequent switching would have to be put in place. I can think of possibly two options:

1. You cannot switch freely between all 24 of your mons: every turn, you can switch between six (randomly chosen OR alternating) mons (similar to "drawing a card" in a card game)
2. A player can switch up to 40 (48?) times before losing (similar to "running out of cards" in a card game.)

Any ideas?
 
While I'd be too lazy to set something up, I was thinking of a theoretical natdex metagame where movepools have their full potential:

-All Pokemon have unlimited access to all of the moves they've ever obtained in the actual games, disregarding incompatibility with other moves or what abilities they can have(Includes Gen I and II event moves that are completely unobtainable in current gen, like Reversal Gyarados, Morning Sun Nidoking, and Rapid Spin Golem).
-All moves are at the strongest they ever were(I don't mean stuff like Gen I crit mechanics, but stuff such as dig having 100 power like Gen I, Sky Drop not being weight-based like Gen V, Hypnosis having 70 Accuracy like Diamond and Pearl, Hidden Power having variable power up to 70 Like Gen II-V, Sky Attack having 200 Power like Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, ect.). This would also include interactions like Blizzard in Hail and Thunder in Rain having a 30% chance of bypassing Protect and similar moves in Diamond and Pearl, and Synthesis/Moonlight/Morning Sun heal 100% in the Sun like in Gen II
 
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While I'd be too lazy to set something up, I was thinking of a theoretical natdex metagame where movepools have their full potential:

-All Pokemon have unlimited access to all of the moves they've ever obtained in the actual games, disregarding incompatibility with other moves or what abilities they can have(Includes Gen I and II event moves that are completely unobtainable in current gen, like Reversal Gyarados, Morning Sun Nidoking, and Rapid Spin Golem).
-All moves are at the strongest they ever were(I don't mean stuff like Gen I crit mechanics, but stuff such as dig having 100 power like Gen I, Sky Drop not being weight-based like Gen V, Hypnosis having 70 Accuracy like Diamond and Pearl, Hidden Power having variable power up to 70 Like Gen II-V, Sky Attack having 200 Power like Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, ect.). This would also include interactions like Blizzard in Hail and Thunder in Rain having a 30% chance of bypassing Protect and similar moves in Diamond and Pearl, and Synthesis/Moonlight/Morning Sun heal 100% in the Sun like in Gen II
The first bit could maybe make for a mildly interesting meta (probably not anything too fancy though) but I speak from experience when I say that the second bit is impossible to quantify objectively. There are too many instances where different parts of a move have been their best in different generations, and too many moves that have had weird sidegrades that are incompatible with each other.
 
I picked this idea because I once thought, "there are 6 stats and 6 slots, why don't I just switch their axes?"

I had an idea for a "Cross Stats" metagame. I thought to myself, there is Reversed (physical and special stats are swapped), Chimera (the Chimera'd Pokemon gets the fourth Pokemon's stats), and Godly Gift (only one stat is handed from the "God" Pokemon to each of the other Pokemon). I picked this idea for a metagame because I thought, "there are 6 stats and 6 slots, why don't I just switch their axes?".

Each Pokemon's new base stats are dependent on their slots.

- All of the base stats have their axes switched. (Basically speaking, Pokemon 1's stats become all of the HP stats, Pokemon 2's stats become all of the Attack stats, and so forth.)
- Every Pokemon is allowed except those with stats over 200. (However, this only cuts 7 Pokemon, not including mega evolutions).
- The stat total max allowed is something I am still playing with. (There was initially no max, then there was the 600 total which I found to make the metagame not fun, so I raised it to 700. Feel free to leave criticisms and ways I can improve this metagame.)

- This metagame will not reject your team if you add mons marked "illegal" (example: Aegislash-blade), as long as they do not have a base stat greater than 200. I might repeal this later.

Problems:
Teams might end up having a specific Pokemon on majority of teams.
Clefable and Xerneas.

Uber rules (no evasion moves or baton pass), however, Zacian-Crowned is not banned (as of now).

I would really like to see what craziness players will come up with!
 
The first bit could maybe make for a mildly interesting meta (probably not anything too fancy though) but I speak from experience when I say that the second bit is impossible to quantify objectively. There are too many instances where different parts of a move have been their best in different generations, and too many moves that have had weird sidegrades that are incompatible with each other.
Could just have a vote on what version would be healthier

Just no Japanese Gen I Blizzard(On top of the 120 Power and 90% accuracy all regions got, it also had a 30% Freeze chance, to match the status chance of its two counterparts in Gen I)
 
Could just have a vote on what version would be healthier

Just no Japanese Gen I Blizzard(On top of the 120 Power and 90% accuracy all regions got, it also had a 30% Freeze chance, to match the status chance of its two counterparts in Gen I)
If you have to have a vote to decide on the mechanics, then it's not an OM, it's a Pet Mod..
To make it objective, I think you would have to go with the most recent generation for changes in which neither version is inherently better (for instance, Gust has changed from Normal to Flying and from Physical to Special, but neither of those changes made it inherently better or worse). For everything else, you would have to combine all of its best attributes (highest priority every, highest power ever, highest accuracy ever, etc), meaning some moves would be better than they had been in any individual generation (for instance Crunch would have both a 20% chance of lowering Def and a 20% chance of lowering SpD, and every hit from Beat Up would have a minimum 10 base power but use the modern base power formula when it results in > 10).

Also, Roar and Whirlwind definitely need to be quickbanned due to their 0 priority in Gen 1.
 
SLOT SWAP (working title)

Ever suffered from 4 moveslot syndrome? Couldn't decide which ability to pick? Want to run specs Toxtricity, but the lack of air balloon makes you dread ground moves? Fret no more! Introducing Slot Swap, the metagame where you needn't fret over those choices! Every Pokémon's Ability, Item, and Move slots can hold an ability, a move, or an item (with some restrictions)! This means you can finally run a Merciless Toxapex without worrying about losing Regenerator, but you'll have to give up a move slot or your item slot. Or maybe you want your Ferrothorn to set up more hazards while still maintaining an offensive presence, so you get rid of either Iron Barbs or your item. You can even go all in and just put boots, eviolite, choice band and sharp beak on a Scyther if you really love Dual Wingbeat! for some reason...

There is no promise that the pokémon you are fighting has four moves, an item, or an ability. This lets the trainer experiment with sets that should never see the light of day breaks the boundaries of what was previously possible on a pokémon. Scouting becomes crucial here, as the number of possible sets skyrockets.

Rules:

Mechanic
: -A Pokémon's Ability, Item and Move slots can all hold either of the three. The total amount of slots in total is 6.
-Pokémon are still restricted to the abilities and moves that they can normally learn.
Clauses:
-OU clauses,
-Evasion Clause
-Sleep Clause
-Choice Clause: A pokémon may only hold one Choice item.
Bans:
-OU banlist
-Clefable
-Porygon-Z
Possible Bans:
-Amoongus, Togekiss, Excadrill, Bolt Beak.

Unbans: None yet!


Strategy:

Creativity is king here. 4 move slot syndrome is no longer a thing, but adding an extra option means potentially sacrificing a useful slot. Offensive mons can use a secondary ability like poison point to catch an attacker by surprise, defensive mons can provide more support for their team (while still sacrificing an important slot)... The "if only..." strategies you've dreamed for years can now be unleashed, but at an important price. Risk and Reward go hand in hand in teambuilding.

Increased Viability:
Here are some Pokémon that appreciate Slot Swap's mechanics:




Defensive Kommo-o gains viability, as he can sacrifice move or item slots to gain extra protection from its other abilities.






Jirachi can add more move options and, depending on the team, possibly gain more utility by removing its item slot.




Cloyster can now maintain safety after shell smash with white herb, and try to flinch the opponent with king's rock at the same time.

:rotom-Heat: :dragapult: :pelipper: :mandibuzz:

Like shop-savvy suburban soccer moms, pivots absolutely LOVE holding an extra pair of boots... to mitigate any and all sort of damage they could receive from hazards. Leftovers allows them more longevity, too, or choice items can give them more raw power.

:urshifu-rapid-strike:

Urshifu can safely run a lot of options without being walled. Alongside his signature Surging Strikes and Close Combat, it can run U-Turn for pivot and both Thunder punch AND Zen headbutt to handle its counters. This would however require sacrificing Unseen Fist.

:weavile: :kyurem: :mandibuzz: :swampert:

Decent mons with less-than-stellar abilities appreciate a free slot.


Decreased Viability:
These Pokémon might be outmatched by the new options available to their peers:




Knock Off users will find themselves in a double-edged-sword situation: While they may be able to go for multiple boosted knock offs, it's also possible that the enemy will lack an item, leaving their knock offs weakened.

Poltergeist becomes a much less reliable move, for the same reasons as stated above.

Honestly probably much more.

Q&A:

Q
: What happens if a Pokemon uses Knock off, Fling, etc.?
A: Knock off knocks off the item in the ability slot first, then item, then moves 1->2->3->4. Fling follows the same order. Embargo disables all items. Frisk reveals all items. Trick follows the order above. Poltergeist controls only 1 item, alternating between uses by using the order above.

Q: How are abilities handled by replacing/suppressing moves and abilities?
A: Gastro acid, skill swap, worry seed, simple beam, role play and entrainment interact with abilities in the same order as above. Neutralizing Gas disables all abilities. Trace copies an ability at random (or it can follow the order if possible).

Q: What happens if I hold both Toxic Orb and Flame Orb?
A: Holding both Toxic Orb and Flame Orb will prioritize the orb that comes earliest in the slot order (ability first, etc.). Still don't know why you'd want to do that though.

Q: What happens if Entrainment/Role Play is used by/on a Pokémon with no abilities?
A: The move fails.

Q: Unburden?
A: Unburden would double speed after each item used. This isn't too broken, since more items + unburden means less moves (and therefore less coverage), and a simple roar, whirlwind, dragon tail, red card, etc. ruins a double-unburden setup.


If this post looks similar to you, it's because it's mostly a copy-paste from the last time I suggested this, back in September 2020. I've changed the name of the metagame, added a couple of examples, and changed the banlist. If there's a metagame I'd like to see developed on the server someday, it's this one. Thoughts, feedback and comments are always very appreciated. Thank you for reading, and I hope you have a good day.
 
I picked this idea because I once thought, "there are 6 stats and 6 slots, why don't I just switch their axes?"

I had an idea for a "Cross Stats" metagame. I thought to myself, there is Reversed (physical and special stats are swapped), Chimera (the Chimera'd Pokemon gets the fourth Pokemon's stats), and Godly Gift (only one stat is handed from the "God" Pokemon to each of the other Pokemon). I picked this idea for a metagame because I thought, "there are 6 stats and 6 slots, why don't I just switch their axes?".

Each Pokemon's new base stats are dependent on their slots.

- All of the base stats have their axes switched. (Basically speaking, Pokemon 1's stats become all of the HP stats, Pokemon 2's stats become all of the Attack stats, and so forth.)
- Every Pokemon is allowed except those with stats over 200. (However, this only cuts 7 Pokemon, not including mega evolutions).
- The stat total max allowed is something I am still playing with. (There was initially no max, then there was the 600 total which I found to make the metagame not fun, so I raised it to 700. Feel free to leave criticisms and ways I can improve this metagame.)

- This metagame will not reject your team if you add mons marked "illegal" (example: Aegislash-blade), as long as they do not have a base stat greater than 200. I might repeal this later.

Problems:
Teams might end up having a specific Pokemon on majority of teams.
Clefable and Xerneas.

Uber rules (no evasion moves or baton pass), however, Zacian-Crowned is not banned (as of now).

I would really like to see what craziness players will come up with!
So, here's the problem: there's nothing to do but spam pokemon with a massive number in one stat. While there are some niche ideas that might work, most teams are gonna look something like this: https://pokepast.es/d2df001cbb04855e
Even if you cut numbers, it's still gonna be that minimax fest. I really don't think this one will work.
 
So, here's the problem: there's nothing to do but spam pokemon with a massive number in one stat. While there are some niche ideas that might work, most teams are gonna look something like this: https://pokepast.es/d2df001cbb04855e
Even if you cut numbers, it's still gonna be that minimax fest. I really don't think this one will work.
Won't that mean this team will have stats of
170/59/50/100/106/80 (Wailord)
90/181/95/85/130/100 (Kartana)
45/131/180/80/90/50 (Cloyster)
90/59/85/165/110/100 (CalyrexS)
45/31/45/100/154/90 (Ho-Oh)
60/109/70/150/90/200 (Regieleki)

This Cloyster won't be able to effectively shell smash. Many other pokemon can outspeed this even at +2. Also, special attacks can destroy this pokemon after shell smashing.
This Ho-Oh is absolutely awful.
You could possibly run bulky Wailord here.
Kartana and CalyrexS could become sweepers in the right conditions. Regieleki could be the MVP of the team.

Making this a 1v1 mode was going to be a bad idea to me since players will just set up for that particular pokemon.
 
Won't that mean this team will have stats of
170/59/50/100/106/80 (Wailord)
90/181/95/85/130/100 (Kartana)
45/131/180/80/90/50 (Cloyster)
90/59/85/165/110/100 (CalyrexS)
45/31/45/100/154/90 (Ho-Oh)
60/109/70/150/90/200 (Regieleki)

This Cloyster won't be able to effectively shell smash. Many other pokemon can outspeed this even at +2. Also, special attacks can destroy this pokemon after shell smashing.
This Ho-Oh is absolutely awful.
You could possibly run bulky Wailord here.
Kartana and CalyrexS could become sweepers in the right conditions. Regieleki could be the MVP of the team.

Making this a 1v1 mode was going to be a bad idea to me since players will just set up for that particular pokemon.
Oh, I get it. I originally thought that putting a Pokemon in a given slot would share that specific stat with the entire team (putting Blissey in slot 1 would give every Pokemon 255 HP, etc.) but the visual aid really helped clarifying what you meant.

Basically, instead of a team looking like this:

HPAttDefSpASpDSpe
:quagsire:
958585656535
:mew:
100100100100100100
:toxapex:
50631525314235
:blissey:
25510107513555
:conkeldurr:
10514095556545
:xurkitree:
8389711737183

it looks like this:

HPAttDefSpASpDSpe
:quagsire:
951005025510583
:mew:
85100631014089
:toxapex:
85100152109571
:blissey:
65100537555173
:conkeldurr:
651001421356571
:xurkitree:
3510035554583
 
Oh, I get it. I originally thought that putting a Pokemon in a given slot would share that specific stat with the entire team (putting Blissey in slot 1 would give every Pokemon 255 HP, etc.) but the visual aid really helped clarifying what you meant.

Basically, instead of a team looking like this:

HPAttDefSpASpDSpe
:quagsire:
958585656535
:mew:
100100100100100100
:toxapex:
50631525314235
:blissey:
25510107513555
:conkeldurr:
10514095556545
:xurkitree:
8389711737183

it looks like this:

HPAttDefSpASpDSpe
:quagsire:
951005025510583
:mew:
85100631014089
:toxapex:
85100152109571
:blissey:
65100537555173
:conkeldurr:
651001421356571
:xurkitree:
3510035554583
Yea!
You now have a special monster in Quagsire. (Watch out for leaf blade though.)
This Mew is not good.
Toxapex can actually deal decent liquidation damage assuming opponent is poisoned. Its also bulkier physically but less bulky in the special department.
Really fast Blissey (but also not very strong).
Cool special Conkeldurr.
Look at what amazing bulk Xurkitree has. Earthquake from a +6 LandorusT can't even kill this.
Xurkitree becomes something way worse than a ZU Pokemon. Like look, that BST is only 353!

Most teams are going to have at least one amazing Pokemon, and at least one bad Pokemon.

At the same time, remember that Blissey is on the banlist due to its HP.
 
Oh, I didn't actually intend for that team to be good. I just chose Pokemon I thought had distinctive stat spreads to help illustrate what was going on.
 
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