Metagame Workshop

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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Can you explain how you came to 2.25 rather then 3x?
It depends on your interpretation of how a 1.5x power thing works. Is it:

A) Applied again (in other words, a multiplication)? That would be 1.5*1.5=2.25x boost
B) Has the chance added on again? This also raises the question of if technician for example is a 1.5x BP multiplier or a 50% increase in BP. So would be be 50%+50%=100% more BP or would it be a 1.5x+1.5x=3.0x multiplier?

The issue with B is that it is VERY much not the case for Fur Coat or Fluffy as you outlined, since no matter how you slice it you can't add up a 50% damage reduction or a 0.5x multiplier and end up with 25% or 0.25x multiplier. Instead, they'd be absolutely useless aside from Fluffy giving a 4x weakness to Fire type moves.
 

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Prism Armor and Solid Rock (and Filter) are all really good too, taking only 56% of the damage from super effective attacks - basically they don’t have 2x weaknesses. Thick Fat is also really good, making it so Mega Venusaur now resists Ice and Fire.

Weather evasion abilities (particularly Sand Veil) are busted tbh. Making it so incoming attacks have a 0.64x accuracy modifier is hilariously dumb. Smooth Rock supported Sub/SD Garchomp sounds far too good.

Meanwhile weather speed abilities make it so that Pokémon under the effect will outspeed everything. Pretty much no doubt about it. Solar Power is also quite good, despite the huge HP loss.
 
Item Share
Metagame Premise: Taking place in Doubles, the Pokemon share the item's effect to its partner. It's like Partners in Crime, only with items!

Example:
Choice items give the holder and its partner a particular stat boost, but they are locked to the move that they've first selected.

Assault Vest boosts Special Defense but disallows the partner from using any status move.

The partner must reach 25% or below HP in order for the holder's 50% pinch berry to activate.

Banlist:
DOU clause
Share clause: The following items will have the sharing function disabled.
Z-crystals (actually, if two Pokemon use Z-move all at once, will that work?)
Red Card

Potential ban and threats:
Can't think of anything.

Questions for the community:
Does Item Share sound like an interesting format?
Anything else that will be broken or powerful?

EDIT: hang on, I got another one.

Bingo*
* name may subject to changes because this is a dumb name​

Metagame Premise: Also taking place in Doubles. After a Pokemon unleashes an attack if its partners have an attack that shares the type of that move, another strike that deals 25% of the original move's power will be unleashed. Additionally, the secondary effect for the second hit will be ignored.

Example:
Volcanion has Heat Wave, its partner is Genesect. There are two scenarios:
If Genesect has Flamethrower, Heat Wave will hit twice.
If not, it will just hit one time.
Z-move will not trigger the second hit no matter what.

Banlist:
DOU clause

Potential ban and threats:
Still can't think of anything.

Questions for the community:
Does that sound like an interesting format?
Anything else that will be broken or powerful?
Should it only be activated once per turn?
 
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Item Share
Metagame Premise: Taking place in Doubles, the Pokemon share the item's effect to its partner. It's like Partners in Crime, only with items!

Example:
Choice items give the holder and its partner a particular stat boost, but they are locked to the move that they've first selected.

Assault Vest boosts Special Defense but disallows the partner from using any status move.

The partner must reach 25% or below HP in order for the holder's 50% pinch berry to activate.

Banlist:
DOU clause
Share clause: The following items will have the sharing function disabled.
Z-crystals (actually, if two Pokemon use Z-move all at once, will that work?)
Red Card

Potential ban and threats:
Can't think of anything.

Questions for the community:
Does Item Share sound like an interesting format?
Anything else that will be broken or powerful?

EDIT: hang on, I got another one.

Bingo*
* name may subject to changes because this is a dumb name​

Metagame Premise: Also taking place in Doubles. After a Pokemon unleashes an attack if its partners have an attack that shares the type of that move, another strike that deals 25% of the original move's power will be unleashed. Additionally, the secondary effect for the second hit will be ignored.

Example:
Volcanion has Heat Wave, its partner is Genesect. There are two scenarios:
If Genesect has Flamethrower, Heat Wave will hit twice.
If not, it will just hit one time.
Z-move will not trigger the second hit no matter what.

Banlist:
DOU clause

Potential ban and threats:
Still can't think of anything.

Questions for the community:
Does that sound like an interesting format?
Anything else that will be broken or powerful?
Should it only be activated once per turn?
Item share sounds sort of interesting, but more like a Dual Wielding doubles thing. Of course, there are differences, such as being able to swap out items, and I love that. Bingo is kinda just giving Pokémon parental bond how i see it, i dont really like Bingo.
 
Hello again, everyone!

The following metagame is not thinking of CAP, but is to create a metagame based on the recent discovery of the beta version of Pokémon Gold; many Pokémon has no base stats defined and my intention and just work based on it respecting the material already found, so I suggest you take a look at these links below:

General: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld

TM and HM moves: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/moves/tmhm_moves.asm

Type matchups: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/types/type_matchups.asm

Moves by level: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/pokemon/evos_attacks.asm

Base stats: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/tree/master/data/pokemon/base_stats

In the Base Stats session we will see that many of the discarded Pokémon have 50 for each stat, the intent is not only to make a metagame based on what was being planned in the beta, but also to correct the stats of those Pokémon and other minor things that we identified discuss, by then, I will be updating this post.
 

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
In the Base Stats session we will see that many of the discarded Pokémon have 50 for each stat, the intent is not only to make a metagame based on what was being planned in the beta, but also to correct the stats of those Pokémon and other minor things that we identified discuss, by then, I will be updating this post.
This would definitely be a pet mod then.
 
This would definitely be a pet mod then.
There are many Pokémon to adjust now, at the moment I am raising the hypothesis of creating a metagame based on the first Gold beta and verify its viability, little by little I will assemble the Base Stats of the Pokémon they need with the detailed explanation, and I will update the post .

EDIT: I followed the advice of colleagues and created an official topic here; Contribute please: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokÉmon-gold-beta-metagame-under-construction.3643262/
 
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Hello again, everyone!

The following metagame is not thinking of CAP, but is to create a metagame based on the recent discovery of the beta version of Pokémon Gold; many Pokémon has no base stats defined and my intention and just work based on it respecting the material already found, so I suggest you take a look at these links below:

General: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld

TM and HM moves: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/moves/tmhm_moves.asm

Type matchups: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/types/type_matchups.asm

Moves by level: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/blob/master/data/pokemon/evos_attacks.asm

Base stats: https://github.com/pret/pokegold-spaceworld/tree/master/data/pokemon/base_stats

In the Base Stats session we will see that many of the discarded Pokémon have 50 for each stat, the intent is not only to make a metagame based on what was being planned in the beta, but also to correct the stats of those Pokémon and other minor things that we identified discuss, by then, I will be updating this post.
Pretty sure this falls under Pet Mod territory. Regardless, it's a cool idea for one, I'd submit if it was a thing

Would only Gen 2 mons be allowed, or can we still use Gen 7 stuff?
Doubility

Trigger based abilities activate twice or double the chance of activating, and passive based abilities have double the effect.
*Side Note: Abilities which are not effected by the chance would not be effected so things like contrary still activate same misty surge.
Scary Threats:
Simple:
It now increases a stat boost 4x what is normal (power up punch now gives a +4 and nasty plot now gives a +6 instantly
Technician: now giving a 2.25x boost to 60 bp moves and under
Regenerator: wow now it heals 66%
Intimidate: -2 do I need to say more?
Fluffy: taking 1/4th of the damage you normally would from normal attacks is great but 4x weakness to fire hmm....
Furcoat: read above but without fire
Defiant: +4 if any stat gets lowered
Guts: 2.25x in power

Cool Ideas:
Analitic:
now gives a 1.69x boost
Weather Speed boosting Moves: Now give a 4x boost to speed
Compound Eyes: make moves 69% more accurate
Early Bird: sleep counter drops by 4 now
Iron Fists: gives a 1.44x boost to fist moves
Mega Launcher: 2.25x
ShedSkin: 66% to get rid of a status effect yes please
Sniper: 2.25x on top of a crit
Stamina: doubles your defense each time you are hit what more could you want
Stakeout: 4x damage to what ever switches
Stench: 20% chance to flinch

*Side Note: moves which can not be directly doubled in some sort of way are not effected
Kinds of moves which do activate:
Beserk: activates twice when below half health

Kinds of moves which don't change:
Emergancy Exit: does not activate at 100% health or something as it is a trigger based ability it would activate twice however as you have already switched out it will not happen again.
Schooling: it is a trigger based ability which means that it would activate twice but as its more like a binary code it would not matter (you cant turn a light that's on on again)

Possible Bans: Regenerator
Bans: Huge power, Pure power, Jirachi, Adaptability, Harvest, water bubble
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 180-214 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Is this meta way to crazy?
has this been done before?
I remember something simillar being submited in Gen 6. Sounds cool, and Electro Ball Alola Raichu under Electric Terrain is a great meme set
 
Pretty sure this falls under Pet Mod territory. Regardless, it's a cool idea for one, I'd submit if it was a thing

Would only Gen 2 mons be allowed, or can we still use Gen 7 stuff?
The idea is to reproduce what the Beta Gold version would have been if it had been finalized in that apprehensive way of the 1997 demo, but honestly, I would like to see those discarded Pokémon back in the current metagame.

Please contribute in this topic: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokÉmon-gold-beta-metagame-under-construction.3643262/

Everyone is welcome to help me, I'm updating many Pokémon found in the database and there are still some missing, actually I need help.
 
Hi, I think the OM submission thread is closed, but i had a brainwave idea for a new and exciting format called Extrememons
The concept is simple:
Type effectiveness are DOUBLED
So 2x weak becomes 4x, 4x becomes 8x and so on
Resistances work the same way, as well as stealth rocks and spikes.
The only exception is normal stealth rock damage remains at 25%, the same with spikes, only super effectiveness and resistances are taken into account
I believe this tier has so much potential, and would be very fun!
It would take standard OU rules, and ban certain mons, the only one i obviously see is kartana
I hope this is a good idea, and believe it would be a great fit for showdown!
 
I wouldn't double spikes damage, as spikes have nothing to do with type effectiveness. I would also half the power of resistances, so normal resistance does 1/4 damage, and double resistance does 1/8 damage.
 
There's no reason for Tyranitarite/Garchompite to be banned is there? Their BST's tower over most other mon's in this meta, but standard Garchomp is generally considered to be better than Mega-garchomp, and Mega-tyranitar doesn't lose many counters in this meta, with plenty of fighting and steel types still able to counter or check it, so while it may be slightly better than in standard, it's definitely not instantly broken and loses a lot of team options being restricted to Johto
I don't think OU performance is a good indicator of performance here, seeing as at least a third of the Viability Rankings (half of A-Rank) is gone now. Even the base forms are already going to be highly versatile top-level threats, and Megas would for sure put them over the top because it'll be impossible to prepare for both the Mega and all the other options they have.

TTar's not restricted to just Johto. PokeDex listings are not by generation, but by any regional Dex. It can also be used in Unova and Kalos-Mountain, the latter of which is alongside Garchomp which is extremely scary.

There's also no reason for Aegislash to be unbanned, in fact, it's probably even more broken here. Its counters are already extremely limited and certain pokedex's lack a hard counter to it entirely.
My main reasoning is that it's limited to Central Kalos, which is a pretty bad PokeDex. It'll be strong on its own, and it has good Mega partners and a few good other Mons, but the other half of its team will hardly do anything. It's something that would need playtesting.

Not allowing mega evolutions for Alolan's doesn't make sense thematically. Mega stones still exist in Alola and if the thought process is that they're not native to Alola, then the only dex's that SHOULD be allowed mega-stones are Kalos and Hoenn. I'd say allow Z-Moves and Mega-evolutions for every region, it's just weird otherwise.
In-game, yes, but it's not a native concept to the region. You're given a Key Ring by Kalosians and Megas only appear in the Battle Tree, which has Trainers from all over. Both Rainbow Rocket and Origins show Mega Stones being in Kanto as well, so I think it's more of us not seeing those regions since Mega Evolution's introduction. Competitively, I think having both on one team will make the meta revolve around them almost entirely because of the loss of the high-BST mons that could compete with those levels of power.
 
hey Im not sure if this is an OM already. If it is not, does an OM where pokemon can use another ability in the item slot (choice between that or the item) sound like a good idea? Basically mons get their own ability and one other one which they can pick.
 
hey Im not sure if this is an OM already. If it is not, does an OM where pokemon can use another ability in the item slot (choice between that or the item) sound like a good idea? Basically mons get their own ability and one other one which they can pick.
That has been submitted multiple times and has been rejected. Basically, no Pokemon would find it worthy to actually use that ability in the item slot since the regular items could do more anyway. You would have to provide extreme justification to use something over an item in order to use it (like MnM)
 
That has been submitted multiple times and has been rejected. Basically, no Pokemon would find it worthy to actually use that ability in the item slot since the regular items could do more anyway. You would have to provide extreme justification to use something over an item in order to use it (like MnM)
ah alright, ty
 
hey Im not sure if this is an OM already. If it is not, does an OM where pokemon can use another ability in the item slot (choice between that or the item) sound like a good idea? Basically mons get their own ability and one other one which they can pick.
“Boneless Pokébilities”
 
Z-Rotom Power
Metagame premise: Instead of only being able to use Z-move once per battle, Z-move can be used twice per battle in this format, simple as that.

Banlist:
OU clause

Potential Bans and threat: None so far (Seriously, I can't think of anything).

Questions for the community:
Is that interesting enough to be an other meta?
 
Z-Rotom Power
Metagame premise: Instead of only being able to use Z-move once per battle, Z-move can be used twice per battle in this format, simple as that.

Banlist:
OU clause

Potential Bans and threat: None so far (Seriously, I can't think of anything).

Questions for the community:
Is that interesting enough to be an other meta?
This is very similar to Ultimate Z, where Z moves can be used indefinitely
 
Ancientpowered

Metagame premise
:
This is a teamslot-based premise. The mons in slots 2-6 can win stat boosts, corresponding to the position of their slots, for the slot 1 mon by landing super-effective hits.
So if, during a battle, I land SE hits with my pokemon in slots 2, 3, and 6, my slot 1 mon will always receive an Attack, Defense, and Speed boost upon switching in.

The boosts cannot be more than +1 regardless of how many SE hits a teammate lands. Boosts function like any other and can be Hazed, Heart Swapped etc. The boosts remain for the rest of the battle, even if the pokemon that won them faints.

Potential bans and threats:
Hidden Power, Natural Gift
  • These moves are able to provide coverage of almost any type, granting easier access to SE hits. However, mons that don’t already run them might not appreciate losing a moveslot.
Simple
  • This ability would double stat boosts received on switch-in, resulting in potential excessive boosting. Swoobat comes to mind as being extremely threatening with Stored Power if its teammates manage to set up for it well
Defensive Boosting and Omniboosting Z-moves
  • If teammates win defensive boosts for the wincon, they will have an easier time setting up as well as benefitting from compounding boosts.
Ditto
  • A potentially very effective panic button if you fail to prevent your opponent from gathering multiple boosts.

Questions for the community:
  • Will teams dedicated to achieving and exploiting these boosts be more successful than teams that don’t rely as much on setting up a single wincon?
  • What Pokemon will find themselves more valuable as the role of scouting greatly increases?
  • What Pokemon will find themselves more valuable as boost-winners as unusual coverage becomes more valuable?
  • Will the metagame turn more to offense or defense as wallbreaking, sweeping, and walling potential are all potentially increased?
  • How will the focus of battle balance between defeating the opposing mons like normal and preventing the set-up of the recipient wincon?
  • If certain mons can become ‘broken’ with specific boosts, will the metagame still be balanced by the gameplay element of preventing those boosts from being won?
  • Are there names for the metagame that more clearly evoke the premise? ‘Ancientpowered’ evokes the omniboosting aspect but not the method by which it’s achieved.
 
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Full Effect

Premise: All items, moves, and abilities are immediately and always activated, bar Type based conditions.

The idea for this meta is that mechanics that rely on certain conditions can now be used without any set up needed. To be more technical, this meta automatically activates any single condition that would naturally work for the mechanic's favor. Here are some examples to get a full idea for the meta:

>Electric Seed: Normally, the seed items are consumed when the Pokemon holding it enters the corresponding terrain. Now, the terrain is no longer needed for the item to be consumed, and the item is used immediately.
It should be noted that if the user's defense is at +6, or if other bars like Embargo are present, then the item won't be used until these conditions are gone. The only conditions being avoided are the ones intrinsic to the item or mechanic itself.

>Acrobatics: Will always be the full 110 bp, even if the user holds an item.

>Earthquake: If you are unaware, Earthquake doubles power on Pokemon that are underground because of Dig. This meta removes that underground condition, and makes EQ always 200 bp. This move, among others, will probably need to be banned.

>Blaze: Will always be active, regardless of remaining HP.

>Aloraichium Z: No longer needed to be held by just Alolan Raichu, so any Pokemon with Thunderbolt can use this Z move!

So this is the idea of the metagame, as some strategies are immediately viable now. However, not everything is affected, and many things should be banned.
Some of the mechanics that are NOT affected are:

>Type based conditions: Under this premise, it would be easy to make abilities like Volt Absorb give immunities to ALL types, not just Electric type attacks. Thus, these abilities are not affected by this change. However, an ability like Flash Fire, which gives a unique bonus once hit by a Fire attack, has its Flash Fire status activated immediately and always. However, it still only gives immunity to Fire type attacks.

>Chance based conditions: Essentially, these conditions are always active anyways. They just have a chance of working or not, and there isn't a perfect "switch" to turn on to activate the effect.

>Gradient attacks: Moves like Reversal or Gyro Ball are not inherently maxed out to their highest potential, as they have a gradient of damage increases. Because there is not a single "switch" for these effects to be activated, they simply are not affected by this meta's rules

>Multi conditional effects: Much like gradients, if there exits multiple possible outcomes, the mechanic is not affected. This can be seen with the Pledge moves and Weather Ball, as while they do have conditions that make these moves stronger with different effects, there's no one condition technically better than the other. So, they remain unaffected.

Sets:

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Synchronoise
- Round

Quick Feet is always active, giving Jolteon a +1 even when healthy. Synchronoise now works on every Pokemon, not just targets with the same type. Lastly, Round's double power effect is also always triggered. Sychnronoise and Round gives Jolteon two nicely powered coverage attacks to take advantage of, and can be a considerable threat.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Venoshock
- Hex
- Thunder
- Focus Blast / Dream Eater / Nightmare

A true monster of a set, Gengar has two 130 bp, 100% accurate STABs in Hex and Venoshock. Furthermore, Thunder is perfectly accurate, because it takes the condition as if it was in rain. Lastly, Nightmare and Dream Eater affect even non-Sleeping targets, but the unaffected Focus Blast may still be better for coverage. Still, such a beast.

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Assurance
- Facade
- Protect

Strong Jaw's x1.5 damage multiplier affects all attacks, not just bite-based ones. This makes Sharpedo's 120 bp STAB assurance even stronger, and its also worth noting that on neutral hitting targets, Facade's 140 bp is stronger than Liquidation after STAB. With a Speed Boost secured from protect, this thing is a killer.

Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Stomping Tantrum
- Heavy Slam
- Avalanche

Mega Aggron's Filter makes it take 3/4ths damage from all attacks, not just super effective ones. This makes it an incredible wall, but with the implied HO nature of this meta, it's base 140 attack is considerable to be invested in. Stomping Tantrum is a nice 150 bp Ground attack, and Avalanche secures a good Ice coverage move. Dragon Tail is nothing special here, but with Filter's defense, it can be used for simple phasing. Heavy Slam also does double damage because of the Minimize quirk, so totally worth abusing.

Some Bans:
Items: Focus Sash, Red Card (would phaze immediately), Weakness Policy
Pokemon Specific Items (ban only affect Pokemon that are NOT normally affected by the item): Eviolite, Eevium Z, Deep Sea Scale, Deep Sea Tooth, Light Ball, Metal Powder, Quick Powder, Thick Club.
Abilities: Chlorophyl, Multiscale, Sturdy, Swift Swim, Tinted Lenses, Unburden, Slush Rush, Sand Rush, Sand Veil, Snow Veil, Surge Surfer, Wonder Guard, Wonder Skin (all moves have 50% accuracy), Magic Bounce.
Moves: Earthquake, Fake Out (works every turn), Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Grudge (doesn't require user to faint), Magnitude, Surf (doubles on Dive targets, so always 180 bp), Extrasensory (160 bp, perfect accuracy), Dragon Rush (200 bp, perfect accuracy), Flying Press (200 bp, perfect accuracy), Body Slam (170 bp, perfect accuracy, 30% chance to para), Craft Shield (spammed Protect), Sleep Talk (evades phazing low priority), Spit Up, Magic Coat (bounces back attacks lol).

More Possible Bans:
Fluffy (halves all attack damage), Anger Point (+6 when surviving an attack), Prankster (+1 priority on all attacks, but Dark types are immune to it), Heavy Slam / Heat Crash / Magnitude (very powerful, but also variable power and lower distribution), Light Clay (Aurora Veil doesn't need Hail), Regenerator (activates once every turn).

Questions for Community:
-Does the premise make sense? Is it too convoluted? Is the name misleading?
-What are some cool sets you can think of? So many new moves / abilities / items are viable now!
-Any other bans or unbans you would suggest? What mons would be too good?
-Any mechanic you're on the fence to see if it would work or not?
 
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