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Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
- Start date
- Status
This is my first post on these forums, so i can't submit this, but:
Ancientmons
Metagame Premise: Abilities getting you down? Too many held items to keep track of? Too hard to optimize the EV spread?
Well, worry no longer!
Ancientmons is an OM that aims to bring back the simplicity of GSC. (I wanted to do RBY, but the Special stat might pull that into Pet Mod territory.) In Ancientmons, you can use new Pokémon in a Gen 2 setting. This includes no Abilities, no Natures, and a much smaller held item list. New moves will stick around, but new effects such as Stealth Rock and Terrains will fail when used.
Potential Bans and Threats: OU banlist, nothing really stands out to me
Questions for the Community: Should the 999 stat limit be kept? If so, should it roll over or cap? Would this be possible to code? Should moves like Toxic be updated with their new effects?
Ancientmons
Metagame Premise: Abilities getting you down? Too many held items to keep track of? Too hard to optimize the EV spread?
Well, worry no longer!
Ancientmons is an OM that aims to bring back the simplicity of GSC. (I wanted to do RBY, but the Special stat might pull that into Pet Mod territory.) In Ancientmons, you can use new Pokémon in a Gen 2 setting. This includes no Abilities, no Natures, and a much smaller held item list. New moves will stick around, but new effects such as Stealth Rock and Terrains will fail when used.
Potential Bans and Threats: OU banlist, nothing really stands out to me
Questions for the Community: Should the 999 stat limit be kept? If so, should it roll over or cap? Would this be possible to code? Should moves like Toxic be updated with their new effects?
I really like this idea, as it's a combination of Hidden Type and STABMons. As for threats, I say ban Slaking and Regigigas. Without their abilities, they would likely sweep most of the time.
Plate Power
Metagame Premise: OU metagame where all pokemon can learn a new type of move by holding a plate of said type. Pokemon holding plates gain access to every move of the type of the plate, as well as the normal 1.2x power effect. In addition, pokemon can carry a z-crystal of their own type and gain the same access to new moves. If the plate is removed, they can still use the moves granted by the plate, but lose the normal boost (to prevent Knock Off from being overpowered). Item clause applies, and you can still use other items.
Potential bans: Some individual moves might end up being banned (similar to in STABmons and Sketchmons) to prevent some moves like Land's Wrath and Shift Gear from being over centralizing. Normalium-Z might also be an issue, considering it grants all normal types with Shell Smash, Boomburst, and Extremespeed, making them powerful sweepers with Z-Move options.
Potential threats:
- Stone Plate Jirachi gets Diamond Storm, a powerful attack with good coverage and a guaranteed chance to boost defence by two. It also has the utility and bulk to use Stealth Rock.
- Pixie Plate Serperior gets Fleur Cannon, giving it a powerful coverage move that also boosts its special attack. Flame Plate and Overheat provides another coverage option.
- Insect Plate Celesteela can run all kinds of sets: a special sweeper set with Tail Glow or Quiver Dance, a defencive set with Heal Order, or a supportive set with Sticky Web.
- Meadow Plate Rotom-H gains a variety of moves to help run bulky sets, including Leech Seed, Spore, Spiky Shield, Aromatherapy, and Synthesis. Earth Plate also gives it recovery and access to Spikes.
- Fist Plate Scizor gets Storm Throw, a useful coverage move with effectively 135BP and that bypases screens and defence boosts. Or, it could run Steelium-Z to gain a powerful STAB in Shift Gear.
- Dread Plate Toxapex gets the ability to use a slow Parting Shot to give a teammate a free switch in and lower the opponent's attack.
- Pokemon with limited STAB options like Tapu Bulu and Aerodactyl appreciate the ability to get moves like Play Rough and Brave Bird/Head Smash.
- Ghost and Poison types have the ability to use a Z-Stone to boost all their stats with Z-Trick or Treat or Z-Purify.
- While gimmicky, Mind Plate Slaking and Regigigas can make use of their powerful stats by using Skill Swap to give the opponent their abilities, also serving as a check to setup sweepers.
Unresolved: I have been contemplating whether it should show the other player what plate you are holding to be better able to counterplay against foes.
... I apologize for not reading through the full OM Index and wasting everyone's time. Sorry.
Well, actually, MonsJustMons eliminates all competitive elements, including items. So, in your case, you could restrict so the specific Gen 2 items, like Leftovers, type-enhancing items and Berries.
Good idea! Unfortunately this metagame has already been submitted.Plate Power
Metagame Premise: OU metagame where all pokemon can learn a new type of move by holding a plate of said type. Pokemon holding plates gain access to every move of the type of the plate, as well as the normal 1.2x power effect. In addition, pokemon can carry a z-crystal of their own type and gain the same access to new moves. If the plate is removed, they can still use the moves granted by the plate, but lose the normal boost (to prevent Knock Off from being overpowered). Item clause applies, and you can still use other items.
Potential bans: Some individual moves might end up being banned (similar to in STABmons and Sketchmons) to prevent some moves like Land's Wrath and Shift Gear from being over centralizing. Normalium-Z might also be an issue, considering it grants all normal types with Shell Smash, Boomburst, and Extremespeed, making them powerful sweepers with Z-Move options.
Potential threats:
- Stone Plate Jirachi gets Diamond Storm, a powerful attack with good coverage and a guaranteed chance to boost defence by two. It also has the utility and bulk to use Stealth Rock.
- Pixie Plate Serperior gets Fleur Cannon, giving it a powerful coverage move that also boosts its special attack. Flame Plate and Overheat provides another coverage option.
- Insect Plate Celesteela can run all kinds of sets: a special sweeper set with Tail Glow or Quiver Dance, a defencive set with Heal Order, or a supportive set with Sticky Web.
- Meadow Plate Rotom-H gains a variety of moves to help run bulky sets, including Leech Seed, Spore, Spiky Shield, Aromatherapy, and Synthesis. Earth Plate also gives it recovery and access to Spikes.
- Fist Plate Scizor gets Storm Throw, a useful coverage move with effectively 135BP and that bypases screens and defence boosts. Or, it could run Steelium-Z to gain a powerful STAB in Shift Gear.
- Dread Plate Toxapex gets the ability to use a slow Parting Shot to give a teammate a free switch in and lower the opponent's attack.
- Pokemon with limited STAB options like Tapu Bulu and Aerodactyl appreciate the ability to get moves like Play Rough and Brave Bird/Head Smash.
- Ghost and Poison types have the ability to use a Z-Stone to boost all their stats with Z-Trick or Treat or Z-Purify.
- While gimmicky, Mind Plate Slaking and Regigigas can make use of their powerful stats by using Skill Swap to give the opponent their abilities, also serving as a check to setup sweepers.
Unresolved: I have been contemplating whether it should show the other player what plate you are holding to be better able to counterplay against foes.
iLlama
Nothing personal, I protect my people
Downloadable
Premise: Upon switch-in, a Pokemon automatically receives one stat boost in the opposing Pokemon's lowest stat, not including HP.
Potenital Bans and Threats: Not too sure.
Questions for the Community: If an opposing Pokemon happens to have two equal stats, should the boost be random or go to the first lowest stat in order from Atk -> Spe? Should this tier be Uber or OU?
Premise: Upon switch-in, a Pokemon automatically receives one stat boost in the opposing Pokemon's lowest stat, not including HP.
Potenital Bans and Threats: Not too sure.
Questions for the Community: If an opposing Pokemon happens to have two equal stats, should the boost be random or go to the first lowest stat in order from Atk -> Spe? Should this tier be Uber or OU?
Probably an ou tier unless you have good reason for wanting it to not be.
The boost should work the same way Download does if that's the basis of your meta.
I have a couple ideas that are free for the public to grab up if they are interested.
Basically wishes original idea w/ Jajoken's superior distrubution
Unless you are a Celesteela or like Low Kick / Grass Knot as coverage, weight usually is the last thing on any Pokemon battlers mind in standard play. But in Weightmons, now it is...
In Weightmons, Pokemon get a Speed boost and / or a base power boost based on what weight class it is in.
Level 1: Under 10kg = +0 power, +25 Speed
Level 2: 10.1kg - 25kg = +5 power, +20 Speed
Level 3: 25.1kg - 50kg = +10 power, +15 Speed
Level 4: 50.1kg - 100kg = +15 power, +10 Speed
Level 5: 100.1kg - 200kg = +20 power, +5 Speed
Level 6: Over 200kg = +25 power, +0 Speed
Obviously alot of things have gotten either faster, stronger or a combination of both.
A couple questions to be asked
Unless you are a Celesteela or like Low Kick / Grass Knot as coverage, weight usually is the last thing on any Pokemon battlers mind in standard play. But in Weightmons, now it is...
In Weightmons, Pokemon get a Speed boost and / or a base power boost based on what weight class it is in.
Level 1: Under 10kg = +0 power, +25 Speed
Level 2: 10.1kg - 25kg = +5 power, +20 Speed
Level 3: 25.1kg - 50kg = +10 power, +15 Speed
Level 4: 50.1kg - 100kg = +15 power, +10 Speed
Level 5: 100.1kg - 200kg = +20 power, +5 Speed
Level 6: Over 200kg = +25 power, +0 Speed
Obviously alot of things have gotten either faster, stronger or a combination of both.
A couple questions to be asked
- Are the boosts fair? If not, how can they be?
- How does defensive play fare in the metagame? Is their any way to make defensive mons fare better in the metagame.
So here's an idea of a Metagame I've been toying around with.
Final Wish
Premise: Whenever a Pokémon faints from battle, every other Pokémon gets +1 in the fainted Pokémon's best stat upon Switch-in. So if Mega Slowbro fainted, the next Pokémon gets +1 in Defense.
Potential Bans: Probably some stupidly bulky stuff like Chansey and some crazy offensive stuff like Pheromosa.
Questions: Should boosts be permanent? Should they stack? Rn, I imagine yes, but I also feel like it'd be very easy for stall to dominate if you're three pokemon down and your chansey/blissey comes in with +2 Def / +1 SpD.
Some strategy ideas:
Suicide Pyukumuku: Innards out Memento can really hurt an offensive threat or KO it and then pass +1 def/spd pretty easily.
Suicide Lead Azelf: Set up rocks. Hit explosion. Give your next Offensive pokemon a nice +1 boost in the stat of your choice. Sweep.
Stored Power/Power Trip Sweepers: With +5 boosts a last effort pokemon like Latios and Moxie Krookodile can fight back.
Punishment/Heart Swap/Spectral Thief: Could be used to punish Pokémon for having their teammates faint and be effective strategy against suicide pokemon.
Final Wish
Premise: Whenever a Pokémon faints from battle, every other Pokémon gets +1 in the fainted Pokémon's best stat upon Switch-in. So if Mega Slowbro fainted, the next Pokémon gets +1 in Defense.
Potential Bans: Probably some stupidly bulky stuff like Chansey and some crazy offensive stuff like Pheromosa.
Questions: Should boosts be permanent? Should they stack? Rn, I imagine yes, but I also feel like it'd be very easy for stall to dominate if you're three pokemon down and your chansey/blissey comes in with +2 Def / +1 SpD.
Some strategy ideas:
Suicide Pyukumuku: Innards out Memento can really hurt an offensive threat or KO it and then pass +1 def/spd pretty easily.
Suicide Lead Azelf: Set up rocks. Hit explosion. Give your next Offensive pokemon a nice +1 boost in the stat of your choice. Sweep.
Stored Power/Power Trip Sweepers: With +5 boosts a last effort pokemon like Latios and Moxie Krookodile can fight back.
Punishment/Heart Swap/Spectral Thief: Could be used to punish Pokémon for having their teammates faint and be effective strategy against suicide pokemon.
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Chart Swap
Metagame premise: All the Type of the game had swapped the Attacking and Defending effectiveness. While similar to Inverse Battle which turn Super Effective hit into Not-Very Effective and vice versa, the Chart Swap simply swap both Attacking and Defending side.
(E.G. Normally, Ground is useless against to Flying, Dragon is useless against Fairy, and Ghost is Super Effective against Psychic but Psychic do neutral damage against Ghost. In Chart Swap, its now Flying useless against Ground, Fairy useless against Dragon, and Psychic being Super Effective against Ghost, and Ghost only able to do neutral damage against it.)
Potential bans and threats: Normal and Ice are likely to be dangerous; Normal is now Super Effective against Fighting and only Ghost will be immune to Normal, while Rock and Steel are Not-Very Effective against Normal. Ice can now only resisted by Ice itself, while able to deal SE damage to Rock, Fire, Steel and Fighting.
Questions for the community: Outside of Normal and Ice, which Type had a potential to become threatening? And would many top tiers in OU would get crippled does to the Offensive-Defensive swap of the Type Chart?
Metagame premise: All the Type of the game had swapped the Attacking and Defending effectiveness. While similar to Inverse Battle which turn Super Effective hit into Not-Very Effective and vice versa, the Chart Swap simply swap both Attacking and Defending side.
(E.G. Normally, Ground is useless against to Flying, Dragon is useless against Fairy, and Ghost is Super Effective against Psychic but Psychic do neutral damage against Ghost. In Chart Swap, its now Flying useless against Ground, Fairy useless against Dragon, and Psychic being Super Effective against Ghost, and Ghost only able to do neutral damage against it.)
Potential bans and threats: Normal and Ice are likely to be dangerous; Normal is now Super Effective against Fighting and only Ghost will be immune to Normal, while Rock and Steel are Not-Very Effective against Normal. Ice can now only resisted by Ice itself, while able to deal SE damage to Rock, Fire, Steel and Fighting.
Questions for the community: Outside of Normal and Ice, which Type had a potential to become threatening? And would many top tiers in OU would get crippled does to the Offensive-Defensive swap of the Type Chart?
Moxiemons (OU Based) Original version rejected by The Immortal :(
Premesis: Every pokemon gets a version of moxie that is based on the nature (EG: Adamant will give +1 attack, Modest will give +1 SpA, Timid will give +1 Speed). This special moxie stacks with regular Moxie, Beast Boost and Soul Heart.
This metagame will be based on offence, almost always, as once you can get a KO, you can continue to sweep the rest of the meta
Potential Bans: Kyurem-Black?
Potential Threats: Beedrill-Mega (+Atk), Pheromosa (+SpA / +Atk), Magearna (+SpA / +Spe), Kartana (+Atk / +Spe), Tapu Koko (+SpA / +Atk), Tapu Lele (+SpA / +Spe or even throw a curveball and go +Def)
Questions for the community: Should this moxie stack with the Moxie, Beast Boost and Soul Hear, or will that make certain pokemon overpowered?
Premesis: Every pokemon gets a version of moxie that is based on the nature (EG: Adamant will give +1 attack, Modest will give +1 SpA, Timid will give +1 Speed). This special moxie stacks with regular Moxie, Beast Boost and Soul Heart.
This metagame will be based on offence, almost always, as once you can get a KO, you can continue to sweep the rest of the meta
Potential Bans: Kyurem-Black?
Potential Threats: Beedrill-Mega (+Atk), Pheromosa (+SpA / +Atk), Magearna (+SpA / +Spe), Kartana (+Atk / +Spe), Tapu Koko (+SpA / +Atk), Tapu Lele (+SpA / +Spe or even throw a curveball and go +Def)
Questions for the community: Should this moxie stack with the Moxie, Beast Boost and Soul Hear, or will that make certain pokemon overpowered?
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I say it should stack with those who actually have Moxie, but I say it shouldn't stack onto the same stat for any of these abilities. We could just have it so that these abilities are banned, although that would ban Magearna and the Ultra Beasts.
Yeah, I guess. I remember suggesting this back in gen 6 before gen 7 was even announced. It didn't seem as complicated then. I see why you think it shouldn't stack onto the same stat, but I personally think they should stack. It would also be pretty difficult to code the non stack rule, I think. But who knows?
i had an idea
Fortemons
Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.
When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +2, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.
This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)
Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit
These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Fixed damage moves -Seismic Toss / Night Shade / Sonic Boom / Dragon Rage
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine- Beat Up is banned alongside this)
Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________
Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.
Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.
Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.
Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.
Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.
Questions for the community:
Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!
Fortemons
Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.
When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +2, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.
This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)
Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit
These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Fixed damage moves -Seismic Toss / Night Shade / Sonic Boom / Dragon Rage
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine- Beat Up is banned alongside this)
Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________
Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.
Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.
Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.
Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.
Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.
Questions for the community:
Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!
Last edited:
Fell Stinger is gonna hurt.i had an idea
Fortemons
Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.
When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +1, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.
This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)
Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit
These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Seismic Toss / Night Shade
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine)
Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________
Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.
Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.
Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.
Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.
Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.
Questions for the community:
Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!
Some potentially powerful moves:i had an idea
Fortemons
Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.
When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +1, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.
This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)
Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit
These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Seismic Toss / Night Shade
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine)
Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________
Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.
Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.
Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.
Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.
Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.
Questions for the community:
Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!
- Fell Stinger (As stated above by Yahooboo)
- Flame Charge (+1 speed)
- Moves with a high crit ratio
- Acid Spray (Come on, -2 SpD each attack?)
- Mud Slap (Please god no)
- Trapping Moves (This will make stall so good)
- Swift (Who needs accuracy)
Mienshao @ Fake Out
Ability: Regenerator
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
U-turn
Filler
Filler
Filler
...et cetera
sounds annoying, altho would be blocked by tsareena/bruxish/lele which should be on every team. u-turn in the item slot and fake out in the moveslot sounds more stressful to deal w/. good catch tho, this is maybe banworthy
Wouldn't it only work on the first turn? Also, do move effects stack? For example, the U-Turn Fake out having priority and flinching, and switching out at the same time?
yes to both, so the issue would be basically that after every ko you can just switch in a mienshao and get a free u-turn damage on anything and it cant be chipped down by hazards thanks to regenerator. fake out in general would give you a free turn every time to do anything, which sounds frustrating and im sure there are other abusers. you dont really want to use fake out in the item slot unless its with u-turn though, because otherwise all your attacks are going to fail after the first turn.
How do Multi Turn attacks work? Do they cause all moves to have to charge?
i would assume that a multi-turn attack would cause all the attacks to have a charge. meanwhile if you had something like lunge + solarbeam, the 100% atk drop occurs on the turn solar beam hits.
for clarity the properties that are inherited by the moves in your moveslots are on-hit effects (things that only happen if your attack hits- think recoil, or an effect like spinning hazards) and move order (this includes charging and priority).
Some sets, which I wanted to share.i had an idea
Fortemons
Metagame premise:
An attack is put into the item slot, and its effects are granted to all of the attacks in the moveslots!
This includes both primary and secondary effects- so for instance drain punch in the item slot would grant 50% recovery on every single attack. Scald in the item slot would grant 30% burn chance on every single attack. Close Combat in the item slot would drop your def/spd with every attack, and Flare Blitz would cause you to take recoil on every attack.
When it comes to priority, the priority of the item and moveslot moves are added together. So Extremespeed + Return is +1, and Extremespeed + Dragon Tail is -4.
This only works for attacks, not status moves. Status moves dont inherit anything and also cant be put into the item slot (thats another meta!)
Potential bans and threats:
These are moves that are banned as items:
-Power-Up Punch
-Zap Cannon
-Inferno
-Dynamic Punch
-Sky Drop
-"Attacks" that call other moves
-Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide
-Multi-hit moves
-Pursuit
These are moves that are banned as moveslots:
-Seismic Toss / Night Shade
-2-5 Multi-hit moves (fixed 2 and 3 hit moves are fine)
Banned abilities:
-Serene Grace
___________________
Togekiss @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere
Togekiss is an example of something that will be popular- inheriting +priority to several moves. It cant use serene grace anymore (because its banned), but the combination of nasty plot + 3 excellent prio moves at +2 with increased crit chance will make it a successful sweeper.
Excadrill @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
Excadrill grants utility in a hyper-offense team without dropping a beat- rapid spin on all of its attacks lets it clear hazards without wasting moveslots, doesnt have to worry about ghosts spinblocking, and can still set up and sweep in sand.
Magearna @ Volt Switch
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Thunderbolt
This Magearna doesnt attempt to sweep, rather puts its great typing and attacks to use to become a pivot. The main selling point of the set is the ability to fire off a powerful fleur cannon and immediately switch out, making the special attack drop a non-problem.
Tsareena (F) @ Feint
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Play Rough
Tsareena is a key pokemon in the metagame as it will stop 4x priority sweepers in their tracks. It can also run all priority itself, and ensure it cant be outsped while having access to pivoting, and a high jump kick that cant be blocked by protect.
Ferrothorn @ Payback
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
Payback and the other damage-doubling abilities are really strong, although they usually come with a setback such as requiring you to take damage, be statused, move last etc. If you can make the sacrifice, then go ahead! This Ferrothorn will move last anyway, so doubling the power of gyro ball and power whip makes it hit really hard.
Questions for the community:
Can you think of any weird interactions that would not have an obvious effect? For instance I was not sure how seismic toss would interact with a doubling-effect like payback, would it deal 200 hp of damage instead? So I threw it into the banlist for now. If you can think of any others, then lemme know!
Tapu Koko @ Nature Madness / Electro Ball
Ability: Electric Surge
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn / Volt Switch
- Filler
- Filler
Azumarill @ Aqua Jet
Ability: Huge Power
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Ice Punch / Superpower
Victini @ U-Turn / Quick Attack / Grass Knot
Ability: Victory Star
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Filler
- Filler
Gengar @ Shadow Punch
Ability: Cursed Body
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
Kartana @ Fury Cutter
Ability: Beast Boost
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Swords Dance / Night Slash / Defog / Filler
Diggersby @ Super Fang
Ability: Huge Power
- Quick Attack
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Return
Muk-Alola @ Poison Fang
Ability: Poison Touch
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
Edit : Pursuit as itemized move is removed from the set.
Latios @ Luster Purge / Buldoze / Icy Wind / Whirlpool / Mud Slap
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Roost
- Filler
Clefable @ Stored Power
Ability: Magic Guard
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Filler
Tapu Fini @ Nature Madness
Ability: Misty Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Defog
- Taunt
Pheromosa @ Swift / U-turn / Rapid Spin
Ability: Beast Boost
- High Jump Kick / Focus Blast
- Lunge / U-Turn
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Poison Jab / Rapid Spin / Quiver Dance
Ninetales-Alola @ Freeze Dry
Ability: Snow Warning
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Aurora Veil
Lucario @ Extreme Speed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Filler
Tauros (M) @ Body Slam
Ability: Sheer Force
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Filler
Nidoking (M) @ Ice Beam
Ability: Sheer Force
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Filler
- Filler
Serperior @ Leaf Storm
Ability: Contrary
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Filler
- Filler
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- Status