-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
- Start date
- Status
The Pokemon stats I pointed out were done with the changes I proposed in mind:
Like I said, I think it would be more interesting if a Pokemon got a 20 point boost to ALL of its highest stats, and a 20 point nerf to ALL of its lowest stats, no matter how many highest or lowest stats it has. This would reward Pokemon like Mega Medicham, Mismagius, and even Type: Null for having multiple highest stats, instead of punishing them with smaller boosts. And I think that HP should be ignored to make Mega Evolutions less complicated. Take Audino, for example. Its highest STAT is HP, so it would get a buff in HP. But when it Mega Evolves, its Defense and Special Defense become its highest stats, so should its HP be unbuffed? Houndoom has the reverse issue. Its Defense is its lowest stat, but when it Mega Evolves, its HP becomes its lowest stat. Should its HP be nerfed on the spot? What I'm saying is, all this could be avoided by just ignoring HP. This isn't even the first time HP has been ignored. The Tier Shift meta no longer boosts HP, and the Beast Boost ability doesn't look at HP.
I havent been in OMs for a while, but a new idea came to me yesterday. Hopefully you like it.
BERRY BRAWL
Metagame premise:
Held Berries grant bonus base stats based on their gen 4 flavor points, with each flavor corresponding to a stat. they also retain their handy one-time effects! explore a range of boosted stats, and some rarely-seen berry effects!
Referencing these values:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flavor#In_Generation_IV
Spicy = Atk
Dry = Def
Sweet = SpA
Bitter = SpD
Sour = Spe
If a Berry has below 50 total flavor points, its flavor points grant 3x their value as stats. If 50 or over, they grant 2x their value as stats. Here are some examples of what berries grant:
Shuca (10 Spicy, 15 Sweet, 25 total) = +30 Atk, +45 SpA
Ganlon (30 Dry, 10 Sweet, 30 Bitter, 70 total) = +60 Def, +20 SpA, +60 SpD
Just to clarify, the stat boost is additional, is applied at the beginning of the match and is not dynamic- that means using/losing your Berry wont affect your stats, and neither will picking up an opponent's berry. Furthermore, Berries announce themselves upon switchin- this makes the metagame much more playable since all stats can swing up to 90 and it allows ppl to make more educated decisions instead of fearing everything, lol.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Potential bans and threats:
Item bans: Lansat and Starf Berry (they both grant 60 mixed offenses and speed as well as 20 in all defenses, which is just a generic strong boost which outclasses most others + doesnt specialize in any way, pulling away from the heart of the metagame)
Mon bans: possibly Blissey + Chansey, since they can both gain 80+ defense and be somewhat unbreakable to anything not inheriting offenses
Azu Medicham and Diggersby, because of their Huge/Pure Power Scaling
Berry Clause: only one of each Berry per team. This stops the stacking of powerful Berries like Custap and forces some variation.
Magnezone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch / Psych Up
Magnezone fits this meta very well- instead of being a magnet pull trapper, it abuses Sturdy to ensure it gets to utilise the speed boost from Salac berry. This paired with the bonus 60 SpA, 20 SpD and 60 Spe from the flavor boost (70/70/115/190/110/120) makes Magnezone able to clean up nicely with pseudo-boltbeam coverage and a huge SpA stat.
Kartana @ Rowap Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike
Kartana is a murderer. It works very well with the Rowap Berry, granting it 80(!) Spe and 20 Atk (59/201/131/59/31/189). This set works well with Swords Dance, and now allows it to get a speed boost after a KO making its sweeping potential even better. Either Kartana or Rowap Berry is probably banworthy!...
Alomomola @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Defensive Pokemon can work well too in this meta- for instance Alomomola really appreciates +30 Atk and +45 SpD (165/105/80/40/90/65) in order to not hit like a total wet noodle, as well as become a formidable mixed wall. Whats more, the Rindo Berry covers up a Grass weakness for the first hit, allowing it to cripple its "checks" with a Toxic or Knock Off.
Muk-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Recycle
Muk-Alola makes great use of a Aguav Berry with Gluttony, gaining a huge SpD boost of 45 (105/105/75/65/145/50). This lets it pursuit trap many psychic and ghost types with ease. Recycle lets it heal throughout the match and act like a wall, although it needs to be careful for the extra hate aimed at Berries in this meta (like knock offs, bug bites, incinerate or whatever else might pop up)
________________________________________________________________________________________
Questions for the community:
Im mainly just curious on what ppl think of the meta and if anyone has any ideas of mons or sets that would be either broken or fun! Or anything that might break the meta..
BERRY BRAWL
Metagame premise:
Held Berries grant bonus base stats based on their gen 4 flavor points, with each flavor corresponding to a stat. they also retain their handy one-time effects! explore a range of boosted stats, and some rarely-seen berry effects!
Referencing these values:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flavor#In_Generation_IV
Spicy = Atk
Dry = Def
Sweet = SpA
Bitter = SpD
Sour = Spe
If a Berry has below 50 total flavor points, its flavor points grant 3x their value as stats. If 50 or over, they grant 2x their value as stats. Here are some examples of what berries grant:
Shuca (10 Spicy, 15 Sweet, 25 total) = +30 Atk, +45 SpA
Ganlon (30 Dry, 10 Sweet, 30 Bitter, 70 total) = +60 Def, +20 SpA, +60 SpD
Just to clarify, the stat boost is additional, is applied at the beginning of the match and is not dynamic- that means using/losing your Berry wont affect your stats, and neither will picking up an opponent's berry. Furthermore, Berries announce themselves upon switchin- this makes the metagame much more playable since all stats can swing up to 90 and it allows ppl to make more educated decisions instead of fearing everything, lol.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Potential bans and threats:
Item bans: Lansat and Starf Berry (they both grant 60 mixed offenses and speed as well as 20 in all defenses, which is just a generic strong boost which outclasses most others + doesnt specialize in any way, pulling away from the heart of the metagame)
Mon bans: possibly Blissey + Chansey, since they can both gain 80+ defense and be somewhat unbreakable to anything not inheriting offenses
Azu Medicham and Diggersby, because of their Huge/Pure Power Scaling
Berry Clause: only one of each Berry per team. This stops the stacking of powerful Berries like Custap and forces some variation.
Magnezone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch / Psych Up
Magnezone fits this meta very well- instead of being a magnet pull trapper, it abuses Sturdy to ensure it gets to utilise the speed boost from Salac berry. This paired with the bonus 60 SpA, 20 SpD and 60 Spe from the flavor boost (70/70/115/190/110/120) makes Magnezone able to clean up nicely with pseudo-boltbeam coverage and a huge SpA stat.
Kartana @ Rowap Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike
Kartana is a murderer. It works very well with the Rowap Berry, granting it 80(!) Spe and 20 Atk (59/201/131/59/31/189). This set works well with Swords Dance, and now allows it to get a speed boost after a KO making its sweeping potential even better. Either Kartana or Rowap Berry is probably banworthy!...
Alomomola @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Defensive Pokemon can work well too in this meta- for instance Alomomola really appreciates +30 Atk and +45 SpD (165/105/80/40/90/65) in order to not hit like a total wet noodle, as well as become a formidable mixed wall. Whats more, the Rindo Berry covers up a Grass weakness for the first hit, allowing it to cripple its "checks" with a Toxic or Knock Off.
Muk-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Recycle
Muk-Alola makes great use of a Aguav Berry with Gluttony, gaining a huge SpD boost of 45 (105/105/75/65/145/50). This lets it pursuit trap many psychic and ghost types with ease. Recycle lets it heal throughout the match and act like a wall, although it needs to be careful for the extra hate aimed at Berries in this meta (like knock offs, bug bites, incinerate or whatever else might pop up)
________________________________________________________________________________________
Questions for the community:
Im mainly just curious on what ppl think of the meta and if anyone has any ideas of mons or sets that would be either broken or fun! Or anything that might break the meta..
Last edited:
I do like the idea of Berry Brawl as it lets something uncommon in single shine, let me give me a spin.I havent been in OMs for a while, but a new idea came to me yesterday. Hopefully you like it.
BERRY BRAWL
Metagame premise:
Held Berries grant bonus base stats based on their gen 4 flavor points, with each flavor corresponding to a stat. they also retain their handy one-time effects! explore a range of boosted stats, and some rarely-seen berry effects!
Referencing these values:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flavor#In_Generation_IV
Spicy = Atk
Dry = Def
Sweet = SpA
Bitter = SpD
Sour = Spe
If a Berry has below 50 total flavor points, its flavor points grant 3x their value as stats. If 50 or over, they grant 2x their value as stats. Here are some examples of what berries grant:
Shuca (10 Spicy, 15 Sweet, 25 total) = +30 Atk, +45 SpA
Ganlon (30 Dry, 10 Sweet, 30 Bitter, 70 total) = +60 Def, +20 SpA, +60 SpD
Just to clarify, the stat boost is additional, is applied at the beginning of the match and is not dynamic- that means using/losing your Berry wont affect your stats, and neither will picking up an opponent's berry. Furthermore, Berries announce themselves upon switchin- this makes the metagame much more playable since all stats can swing up to 90 and it allows ppl to make more educated decisions instead of fearing everything, lol.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Potential bans and threats:
Item bans: Lansat and Starf Berry (they both grant 60 mixed offenses and speed as well as 20 in all defenses, which is just a generic strong boost which outclasses most others + doesnt specialize in any way, pulling away from the heart of the metagame)
Mon bans: possibly Blissey + Chansey, since they can both gain 80+ defense and be somewhat unbreakable to anything not inheriting offenses
Azu Medicham and Diggersby, because of their Huge/Pure Power Scaling
Berry Clause: only one of each Berry per team. This stops the stacking of powerful Berries like Custap and forces some variation.
Magnezone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch / Psych Up
Magnezone fits this meta very well- instead of being a magnet pull trapper, it abuses Sturdy to ensure it gets to utilise the speed boost from Salac berry. This paired with the bonus 60 SpA, 20 SpD and 60 Spe from the flavor boost (70/70/115/190/110/120) makes Magnezone able to clean up nicely with pseudo-boltbeam coverage and a huge SpA stat.
Kartana @ Rowap Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike
Kartana is a murderer. It works very well with the Rowap Berry, granting it 80(!) Spe and 20 Atk (59/201/131/59/31/189). This set works well with Swords Dance, and now allows it to get a speed boost after a KO making its sweeping potential even better. Either Kartana or Rowap Berry is probably banworthy!...
Alomomola @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Defensive Pokemon can work well too in this meta- for instance Alomomola really appreciates +30 Atk and +45 SpD (165/105/80/40/90/65) in order to not hit like a total wet noodle, as well as become a formidable mixed wall. Whats more, the Rindo Berry covers up a Grass weakness for the first hit, allowing it to cripple its "checks" with a Toxic or Knock Off.
Muk-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Recycle
Muk-Alola makes great use of a Aguav Berry with Gluttony, gaining a huge SpD boost of 45 (105/105/75/65/145/50). This lets it pursuit trap many psychic and ghost types with ease. Recycle lets it heal throughout the match and act like a wall, although it needs to be careful for the extra hate aimed at Berries in this meta (like knock offs, bug bites, incinerate or whatever else might pop up)
________________________________________________________________________________________
Questions for the community:
Im mainly just curious on what ppl think of the meta and if anyone has any ideas of mons or sets that would be either broken or fun! Or anything that might break the meta..
- I think HP restoring berries will be the best in Berry Brawl due to their reliable effect, even if the stats boost it provides isn't great when compared to other berries, one other notable holder of it I can this of is Tapu Fini, who appreciate the recovery and defense boost from Iapapa Berry more than Leftovers.
Also to show everyone that Berry Fini is superior to Leftovers Fini even outside of Berry Brawl - By contrast, I think weakness berries will have a decrease in viability even with the stats boosts as the Pokemon must show their berry's name, thus ruining the element of surprise and most players will not hit them with that type unless they're in range of being KO.
- Unnerve still won't be seeing any usage as there isn't anyone that make good use of it, and doesn't stop stats boosts. Same goes to other berry consuming method not named Bug Bite.
Last edited:
I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the flavor-stat combos. The colors Bulbapedia uses seems to suggest that:I havent been in OMs for a while, but a new idea came to me yesterday. Hopefully you like it.
BERRY BRAWL
Metagame premise:
Held Berries grant bonus base stats based on their gen 4 flavor points, with each flavor corresponding to a stat. they also retain their handy one-time effects! explore a range of boosted stats, and some rarely-seen berry effects!
Referencing these values:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Flavor#In_Generation_IV
Spicy = Atk
Dry = Def
Sweet = SpA
Bitter = SpD
Sour = Spe
If a Berry has below 50 total flavor points, its flavor points grant 3x their value as stats. If 50 or over, they grant 2x their value as stats. Here are some examples of what berries grant:
Shuca (10 Spicy, 15 Sweet, 25 total) = +30 Atk, +45 SpA
Ganlon (30 Dry, 10 Sweet, 30 Bitter, 70 total) = +60 Def, +20 SpA, +60 SpD
Just to clarify, the stat boost is additional, is applied at the beginning of the match and is not dynamic- that means using/losing your Berry wont affect your stats, and neither will picking up an opponent's berry. Furthermore, Berries announce themselves upon switchin- this makes the metagame much more playable since all stats can swing up to 90 and it allows ppl to make more educated decisions instead of fearing everything, lol.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Potential bans and threats:
Item bans: Lansat and Starf Berry (they both grant 60 mixed offenses and speed as well as 20 in all defenses, which is just a generic strong boost which outclasses most others + doesnt specialize in any way, pulling away from the heart of the metagame)
Mon bans: possibly Blissey + Chansey, since they can both gain 80+ defense and be somewhat unbreakable to anything not inheriting offenses
Azu Medicham and Diggersby, because of their Huge/Pure Power Scaling
Berry Clause: only one of each Berry per team. This stops the stacking of powerful Berries like Custap and forces some variation.
Magnezone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch / Psych Up
Magnezone fits this meta very well- instead of being a magnet pull trapper, it abuses Sturdy to ensure it gets to utilise the speed boost from Salac berry. This paired with the bonus 60 SpA, 20 SpD and 60 Spe from the flavor boost (70/70/115/190/110/120) makes Magnezone able to clean up nicely with pseudo-boltbeam coverage and a huge SpA stat.
Kartana @ Rowap Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
- Smart Strike
Kartana is a murderer. It works very well with the Rowap Berry, granting it 80(!) Spe and 20 Atk (59/201/131/59/31/189). This set works well with Swords Dance, and now allows it to get a speed boost after a KO making its sweeping potential even better. Either Kartana or Rowap Berry is probably banworthy!...
Alomomola @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Defensive Pokemon can work well too in this meta- for instance Alomomola really appreciates +30 Atk and +45 SpD (165/105/80/40/90/65) in order to not hit like a total wet noodle, as well as become a formidable mixed wall. Whats more, the Rindo Berry covers up a Grass weakness for the first hit, allowing it to cripple its "checks" with a Toxic or Knock Off.
Muk-Alola @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Pursuit
- Recycle
Muk-Alola makes great use of a Aguav Berry with Gluttony, gaining a huge SpD boost of 45 (105/105/75/65/145/50). This lets it pursuit trap many psychic and ghost types with ease. Recycle lets it heal throughout the match and act like a wall, although it needs to be careful for the extra hate aimed at Berries in this meta (like knock offs, bug bites, incinerate or whatever else might pop up)
________________________________________________________________________________________
Questions for the community:
Im mainly just curious on what ppl think of the meta and if anyone has any ideas of mons or sets that would be either broken or fun! Or anything that might break the meta..
Spicy = Attack
Dry = Special Attack
Sweet = Speed
Bitter = Special Defense
Sour = Defense
Thx for the response. I think I disagree about resist berries though. The stats they give are quite large, and even when telegraphed it stops your opponent from koing you that turn, which is beneficial. For instance you can look at something like yache lando-t, with incredible stats of 89/145/120/105/80/136 and a newfound ability to actually potentially take HP Ices. That benefits an offensive playstyle because you can make a more aggressive switch when the berry hasnt been used yet, for instance switching in on a tapu koko without a speed boost.
I think youre right! But it might be a good idea to leave it as it is because then you can easily teambuild because the order of the sheet matches the order of the stats :) Although I wouldnt mind switching it if thats what people want, because I could build my own sheet that has them in an easier order. Pls let me know if thats something I should do
Edit: This would be the updated values, thoughts?
Last edited:
Looks good! Question: if a berry's values add up to exactly 50, are they doubled or tripled?Thx for the response. I think I disagree about resist berries though. The stats they give are quite large, and even when telegraphed it stops your opponent from koing you that turn, which is beneficial. For instance you can look at something like yache lando-t, with incredible stats of 89/145/120/105/80/136 and a newfound ability to actually potentially take HP Ices. That benefits an offensive playstyle because you can make a more aggressive switch when the berry hasnt been used yet, for instance switching in on a tapu koko without a speed boost.
I think youre right! But it might be a good idea to leave it as it is because then you can easily teambuild because the order of the sheet matches the order of the stats :) Although I wouldnt mind switching it if thats what people want, because I could build my own sheet that has them in an easier order. Pls let me know if thats something I should do
Edit: This would be the updated values, thoughts?
Also, I have something of my own. I'm preparing the Gen 8 submission for Movepool Rotation (now named Give and Take), and there's one thing that I can't decide on.
Should the moves be placed in the original Pokemon's moveslots, like this?
Volcarona
Ability: Flame Body
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
Lurantis
Ability: Leaf Guard
- Leaf Blade
- Superpower
- Defog
- Synthesis
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Crunch
Ability: Flame Body
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
Lurantis
Ability: Leaf Guard
- Leaf Blade
- Superpower
- Defog
- Synthesis
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Crunch
Or should the moves be placed in the moveslots of the Pokemon who's actually going to use them, like this?
Volcarona
Ability: Flame Body
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Crunch
Lurantis
Ability: Leaf Guard
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
- Leaf Blade
- Superpower
- Defog
- Synthesis
Ability: Flame Body
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Crunch
Lurantis
Ability: Leaf Guard
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
- Leaf Blade
- Superpower
- Defog
- Synthesis
Approach #1 has the advantage of probably making moveset legality easier to check, and you don't have to go through the hassle of clicking back and forth between the two Pokemon to check which moves can be used, but it makes the automatically generated EVs and IVs usually counterproductive.
Approach #2 can be somewhat of a hassle to work with while making the movesets at times, but I find it more intuitive, the auto EVs and IVs help at the end (especially on mobile, where the EV sliders don't work), and if move legality is too difficult to check, we could say "screw it" and let cool stuff like Eeveelutions passing Celebrate + Stored Power happen.
Another thing to take into account is Hidden Power type. I'll use Blacephalon as an example. In Approach #1, the Hidden Power type would probably be determined by the Pokemon before Blacephalon, allowing Blacephalon to run Hidden Power Fighting even though it's usually impossible for its Hidden Power type to be Fighting. In Approach #2, Hidden Power types would be determined by Blacephalon's own EVs, so it wouldn't be able to run Hidden Power Fighting. The Hidden Power thing is a tricky issue, as it's not a collection of 18 moves, but rather one move that changes type based on the user's IVs.
Despite what I said in the initial post, I'm now leaning towards Approach #1, but I wanted to hear what y'all think.
I have an IDEA!!! A new meta called The G.O.A.T! Basically the first Pokemon in the team (can be seen in team preview) has all it's stats multiplied by 1.5, similar to Eviolite, a choice item, or an assault vest, rounded down.
Example:
My G.O.A.T.
Charizard-Mega-X
His stats:
297 HP - 394 ATK - 258 DEF - 266 SPA but no one cares about that - 207 SPD - 299 SPE
Boosted:
445 HP - 591 ATK - 387 DEF - 399 SPA but still no one cares - 310 SPD - 448 SPE
Example:
My G.O.A.T.
Charizard-Mega-X
His stats:
297 HP - 394 ATK - 258 DEF - 266 SPA but no one cares about that - 207 SPD - 299 SPE
Boosted:
445 HP - 591 ATK - 387 DEF - 399 SPA but still no one cares - 310 SPD - 448 SPE
How does that work if one of the abilities (Comatose, Battle Bond) or items (mega stones, Z crystals) is on the respective lists that are immune to swapping?
I just signed up today and this is my first post!
I have three metagame ideas:
1. GEN 7 TRIPLES
It’s just Triples (My favorite format) but with access to Gen 7 Pokemon, Abilities, Moves, and Items.
2. NO ROCHAMBEAU (rock-paper-scissors)
Metagame Premise: An OU Meta without type weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. Immunities, Resistances, and Weaknesses granted by Abilities still work; like Flash Fire, Dry Skin, Levitate, Heatproof, Thick Fat, Fluffy, etc. All other bonuses granted by Type still work; like Grass-types being immune to Spore, Rock-types getting a SpDef increase in Sand, Electric-types being immune to Paralysis, etc.
Pokemon will be chosen based on Raw Stats, Abilities, and Movepools. Moves will be chosen based on Power, STAB, and utility.
Some interesting effects:
- Ghost-types can no longer spinblock
- Toxic, Toxic Spikes, and Poison-types will be everywhere
- Thick Fat is no longer redundant on Water-types
- Stealth Rocks will hit all Pokemon neutrally
- Setup is easier in general
- Weakness Policy, Weakness-Reducing Berries, Filter and Solid Rock, & Scrappy no longer work
- Defensive Pokemon with 4x Weaknesses will see increased usage
+ Offensive Types with no immunities/resistances: Bug, Dark, Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Fighting, Ghost, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Potential Threats
Defensive: Multiscale Dragonite, Blissey/Chansey, Poison Heal Gliscor, Toxapex, Avalugg, Palossand, Tyranitar, Regirock
Offensive: Contrary Serperior, STAB Outrage, Choice Scarfed/Banded/Specs Moxie/Beast Boost, Outrage Moxie Salamence, Water Bubble Araquanid
Other: Mono-Ice looks scary. Multiple Hail setters, Aurora Veil, Blizzard Spam, and lots of defensive Mons.
Grass types are also crazy. They’re still immune to Powder and Spore moves they have Leech Seed, Ingrain, Grassy Terrain, Giga Drain, Strength Sap, and Spore. Plus Sun based abilities without a Weakness to Fire.
Rock-types in Sand Speak for themselves.
Questions for the Commmunity:
How should Freeze Dry be handled. Should it still hit Water-types Super Effectively, have no effect, have it’s effect changed to something else(10% Freeze), or just be banned?
Bans: Psychic Terrain, Shedinja
Potential Bans: Freeze Dry, Shell Smash, Toxic Spikes, Grassy/Electric Terrain, Rainy/Sunny Weather, Water Bubble
3. PERFECT PARTNER
Edit: Moved to its own post.
I have three metagame ideas:
1. GEN 7 TRIPLES
It’s just Triples (My favorite format) but with access to Gen 7 Pokemon, Abilities, Moves, and Items.
Grassy Terrain Team
Tapu Bulu@ Terrain Extender
Grassy Surge
Brave Nature
252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Horn Leech
- Rototiller
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt
Tsareena@ Leftovers
Queenly Majesty
Brave Nature
252 HP, 128 Def, 128 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- U-Turn
- Play Rough
Politoed@ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Quiet Nature
252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Psychic
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass
Trevenant@ Sitrus Berry
Harvest
Brave Nature
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Trick Room
- Rock Slide
- Horn Leech
- Forest’s Curse
Florges@ Leftovers
Flower Veil
Bold Nature
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Camouflage
- Giga Drain
- Flower Shield
- Wish
Gogoat@Assault Vest
Grass Pelt
252 Atk, 252 Def, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Zen Headbutt
Other potential teammates: Parasect, Cacturne, Gourgeist, Bibarel, Comfey, Lurantis, Mudsdale, Exeggutor, Ferrothorn, Decidueye, Shiinotic, Dhelmise
Tapu Bulu@ Terrain Extender
Grassy Surge
Brave Nature
252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Horn Leech
- Rototiller
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt
Tsareena@ Leftovers
Queenly Majesty
Brave Nature
252 HP, 128 Def, 128 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- U-Turn
- Play Rough
Politoed@ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Quiet Nature
252 HP, 4 SpA, 252 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Psychic
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass
Trevenant@ Sitrus Berry
Harvest
Brave Nature
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Trick Room
- Rock Slide
- Horn Leech
- Forest’s Curse
Florges@ Leftovers
Flower Veil
Bold Nature
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Camouflage
- Giga Drain
- Flower Shield
- Wish
Gogoat@Assault Vest
Grass Pelt
252 Atk, 252 Def, 4 SpD, 0 Spe IVs
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Zen Headbutt
Other potential teammates: Parasect, Cacturne, Gourgeist, Bibarel, Comfey, Lurantis, Mudsdale, Exeggutor, Ferrothorn, Decidueye, Shiinotic, Dhelmise
2. NO ROCHAMBEAU (rock-paper-scissors)
Metagame Premise: An OU Meta without type weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. Immunities, Resistances, and Weaknesses granted by Abilities still work; like Flash Fire, Dry Skin, Levitate, Heatproof, Thick Fat, Fluffy, etc. All other bonuses granted by Type still work; like Grass-types being immune to Spore, Rock-types getting a SpDef increase in Sand, Electric-types being immune to Paralysis, etc.
Pokemon will be chosen based on Raw Stats, Abilities, and Movepools. Moves will be chosen based on Power, STAB, and utility.
Some interesting effects:
- Ghost-types can no longer spinblock
- Toxic, Toxic Spikes, and Poison-types will be everywhere
- Thick Fat is no longer redundant on Water-types
- Stealth Rocks will hit all Pokemon neutrally
- Setup is easier in general
- Weakness Policy, Weakness-Reducing Berries, Filter and Solid Rock, & Scrappy no longer work
- Defensive Pokemon with 4x Weaknesses will see increased usage
+ Offensive Types with no immunities/resistances: Bug, Dark, Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Fighting, Ghost, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Potential Threats
Defensive: Multiscale Dragonite, Blissey/Chansey, Poison Heal Gliscor, Toxapex, Avalugg, Palossand, Tyranitar, Regirock
Offensive: Contrary Serperior, STAB Outrage, Choice Scarfed/Banded/Specs Moxie/Beast Boost, Outrage Moxie Salamence, Water Bubble Araquanid
Other: Mono-Ice looks scary. Multiple Hail setters, Aurora Veil, Blizzard Spam, and lots of defensive Mons.
Grass types are also crazy. They’re still immune to Powder and Spore moves they have Leech Seed, Ingrain, Grassy Terrain, Giga Drain, Strength Sap, and Spore. Plus Sun based abilities without a Weakness to Fire.
Rock-types in Sand Speak for themselves.
Questions for the Commmunity:
How should Freeze Dry be handled. Should it still hit Water-types Super Effectively, have no effect, have it’s effect changed to something else(10% Freeze), or just be banned?
Bans: Psychic Terrain, Shedinja
Potential Bans: Freeze Dry, Shell Smash, Toxic Spikes, Grassy/Electric Terrain, Rainy/Sunny Weather, Water Bubble
3. PERFECT PARTNER
Edit: Moved to its own post.
Last edited:
If you're restricting the "offensive side" and the "defensive side" each to a maximum of 350, wherever the other points go has to be somewhere in the other half, so you've really forced the minimum to be 250, not 210 or 220. (Due to the differing ranges available to the stats, minimum offense actually ends up being 240 on Pokemon that have higher speed than either attacking stat, without taking the lopsided distribution rule into account but only the "must keep stats in order" rule; likewise minimum defense is 240 anyway on species where one of the attack stats stands alone as the lowest stat.) Considering a 350 split is what you get anyway from a perfect "Alakazam-like" distribution where you max one of the attack stats and the speed, then tank the other attack to the minimum of this range, expect to see a highly generic range of partners, specifically limited to the ones that are indeed capable of pulling out the full 350. (Weavile, for example, is limited to no wider than a 340-260 split, due to the need for speed to be the highest stat, so attack is not capable of exploring all the way out to the end of its individual range.)
EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I warm up to this idea.
In this meta, coverage moves mean practically nothing. Because of this, I see pretty much everything running a single strong STAB move and three utility moves.
Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
Volcarona really appreciates this meta. Not only does it get rid of its crippling Rock weakness, but it also frees it up to run Will-O-Wisp to better protect its low Defense.
Kartana @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Defog
- Synthesis
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Glare
Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis
- Whirlwind
I see offensive Grass types in general going ham on this meta. The main things holding offensive Grasses back in standard are the fact that Grass is resisted by a lot of types, and the fact that most Grass types have very poor offensive movepools (Bulu being a rare exception). Neither of those things apply in this meta, and Grass types typically have decent utility movepools. I can definitely see Sap Sipper being a popular choice to counteract Grass Spam.
Also, if someone could offer feedback on my Give and Take problem, that would be appreciated.
Last edited:
The 210 and 220 minimums are just the individual Stat minimums summed up. I wasn’t thinking about the “practical” minimums when I typed that up. Your right that the actual minimums would be 250. The 350 maximum is based on Salamence’s Stats: It has 135 Atk, 110 SpAtk, & 100 Speed for a total of 345. All of the stats are based on the Pseudo-Legends stat ranges, except maximum HP and Speed which should both be 110, but we both know that’s to low.
“(Weavile, for example, is limited to no wider than a 340-260 split, due to the need for speed to be the highest stat, so attack is not capable of exploring all the way out to the end of its individual range.)”
I chose 130 as the cutoff for speed because 120-130 seems to be the “average” for fast Pokémon like Crobat, Aerodactyl, Greninja, etc. But, that might be to low. I’ll raise to 140 to match Atk & SpAtk. Also, since Stats that start at even values can be changed to be different values, I’ll make it so that Stats that start different can be the same, so long as their original positions are not inverted. So the higher Stat can be above or equal to the lower Stat, but never below it. This would allow us to give any Pokémon a 100/100/100/100/100/100 Stat spread. (Though, I don’t think that would be very popular)
Using your Weavile example, we can have 140 Speed, 130 Atk, & 80 SpAtk or 135 Speed, 135 Atk, & 80 SpAtk. If I lowered the minimum offense stat to 70, than we could have 140 Speed, 140 Atk, & 70 SpAtk. But, the whole point of the minimums and maximums is to prevent rampant min-maxing. If every Pokémon could reach the Maximum in any Stat their would be no point picking a base Pokémon. You could let everyone create their Partner from scratch. So, I’ll leave the minimum at 80.
Also, as you pointed out, the lowest natural Stat affects the minimum of all the Stats: If Speed is the lowest, than all minimums stay the same. If HP or one of the defenses is lowest, than Speed can’t drop below 70. And if one of the offenses is the lowest, than no Stat can drop below 80.
“Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites.” - Karen
The whole point of this was so that a player could pick that favorite Pokémon and use it viably and legally in OU. Some people might pick purely based on power but I think a lot of people will just pick their favorite.
Here are some example sets_for fun!
Blissey(Normal-Psychic)
OG Stats: 255/10/10/75/135/55
New Stats: 130/100/70/100/100/100
Natural Cure
@Assault Vest
Adamant Nature +Atk -SpAtk
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Zen Headbutt
Drain Punch
Fire Punch
Double-Edge
Caterpie(Bug-Electric)
OG Stats: 45/30/35/20/20/45
New Stats: 100/100/100/100/70/130
Shield Dust
@Normalium Z
Modest Nature +SpAtk -Atk
252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Electroweb
Hidden Power Bug
Hyper Beam
Protect
Last edited:
Role Change (2V2 metagame)
Metagame premise: Pokemon cant learn stab attacks, but they will gain 50% boost on attacks that match their partner type.
Aclaration: The restriction applies on the typing of any of the pokemon form/preevolution, but it doesnt count mega evolution added typing. For example, Altaria cant learn normal type attacks but it can learn fairy type ones. Note also that the restriction only applies for attacks and not moves in general, so even though the rotom forms cant learn shadow ball, they can still learn will o wisp.
Many pokemon can 'cheat' in order to obtain genuine stab moves, either by mega evolving and getting a new type, by using normal type moves like Hidden Power, Nature Power or Revelation Dance, or by having abilities Protean or Ate abilities like aerialite. Note that this pokemon will also receive a 50% boost if that move is considered as stab for their partner.
Bans: Doubles Banlist and Clauses
Possible Bans: Protean, Mega Salamence, Kyurem Black.
Reason: Protean gives you a pretty simple way to get a 50% boost by using a move that match greninja partner's type. Mega Salamence can cheat through its flying stabs with aerialite and, combined with the 50% partner boost, it gives mence a devastating flying type stab. In adition, it can only be revenge killed with ice shard by using Donphan. Kyurem Black gets huge benefits from getting alternative 'stabs', such as Tapu Koko's Electric or Lando's Ground.
Unbans: Arceus, since it cant use any attack.
Possible unbans: Marshadow. Possibly power Construct, since Zygarde cant cheat through stabs.
Threats:
Tapu lele and Mega Gardevoir form an excellent ofensive combo providing themselves with dual stab coverage. Gardevoir can cheat through Fairy with Pixilate and Lele can cheat through Psychic with Nature Power, getting to the level of specs psychic without an item. Both pokemon can also get the other stab with hidden power.
Tapu Koko can get electric stab with Nature Power, which is boosted by Galvanize Alola Golem or by Xurxitree, which also gets Nature Power.
Pinsir can use its boosted Aerialite attacks in conjunction with common flying type pokemon such as Landorus who doesnt get reliable flying type moves.
Zard Y can help boosting a heat wave from pokemon like Zapdos. With this combo you can also get dual stab in boosted hidden power fliying and boosted thunderpunch for Zard Y.
Vanilluxe and Frosslass both get Weather ball forming a solid ice combo.
Porygon 2/Z can use moves like thunderbolt, Ice Beam or Shadow ball boosted by allies while giving a boost on normal type stab that cames Handy.
Questions:
1) What else could be banworthy?
2) Should the 50% boost be reduced or let it not stack with normal stabs?
Metagame premise: Pokemon cant learn stab attacks, but they will gain 50% boost on attacks that match their partner type.
Aclaration: The restriction applies on the typing of any of the pokemon form/preevolution, but it doesnt count mega evolution added typing. For example, Altaria cant learn normal type attacks but it can learn fairy type ones. Note also that the restriction only applies for attacks and not moves in general, so even though the rotom forms cant learn shadow ball, they can still learn will o wisp.
Many pokemon can 'cheat' in order to obtain genuine stab moves, either by mega evolving and getting a new type, by using normal type moves like Hidden Power, Nature Power or Revelation Dance, or by having abilities Protean or Ate abilities like aerialite. Note that this pokemon will also receive a 50% boost if that move is considered as stab for their partner.
Bans: Doubles Banlist and Clauses
Possible Bans: Protean, Mega Salamence, Kyurem Black.
Reason: Protean gives you a pretty simple way to get a 50% boost by using a move that match greninja partner's type. Mega Salamence can cheat through its flying stabs with aerialite and, combined with the 50% partner boost, it gives mence a devastating flying type stab. In adition, it can only be revenge killed with ice shard by using Donphan. Kyurem Black gets huge benefits from getting alternative 'stabs', such as Tapu Koko's Electric or Lando's Ground.
Unbans: Arceus, since it cant use any attack.
Possible unbans: Marshadow. Possibly power Construct, since Zygarde cant cheat through stabs.
Threats:
Tapu lele and Mega Gardevoir form an excellent ofensive combo providing themselves with dual stab coverage. Gardevoir can cheat through Fairy with Pixilate and Lele can cheat through Psychic with Nature Power, getting to the level of specs psychic without an item. Both pokemon can also get the other stab with hidden power.
Tapu Koko can get electric stab with Nature Power, which is boosted by Galvanize Alola Golem or by Xurxitree, which also gets Nature Power.
Pinsir can use its boosted Aerialite attacks in conjunction with common flying type pokemon such as Landorus who doesnt get reliable flying type moves.
Zard Y can help boosting a heat wave from pokemon like Zapdos. With this combo you can also get dual stab in boosted hidden power fliying and boosted thunderpunch for Zard Y.
Vanilluxe and Frosslass both get Weather ball forming a solid ice combo.
Porygon 2/Z can use moves like thunderbolt, Ice Beam or Shadow ball boosted by allies while giving a boost on normal type stab that cames Handy.
Questions:
1) What else could be banworthy?
2) Should the 50% boost be reduced or let it not stack with normal stabs?
I also vote on approach #1 as well. Hidden power is indeed a tricky issue. It could be solved by passing Ivs as well as movepool, this will help teambuilding with pokemon with no Physical moves and 0 ivs on attack. Other things that could be passed are Nature and Evs (only for the sole purpose of making teambuilding easier.)
DrPumpkinz I vote for Approach 1. For Hidden Power, I think the optimal answer is to make Hidden Power's type determined by the recipient's IVs since the purpose of the meta is to receive only moves and not anything that affects stats. This would apply to stuff like Gyro Ball too: the recipient's speed would count in the calc.
The problem with having Hidden Power be determined by the recipient's IVs is that it would require you to manually set the IVs, which is an absolute pain in the rear.
I think I'm going to go with this. I hadn't considered passing more than just moves, but passing EVs, IVs, and Natures actually works pretty well. There are a few hiccups (mostly when a slow, bulky attacker is passing to a fast, frail attacker and vice versa) but overall it's much easier.
In principle, passing along Hidden Power to someone else's movepool shouldn't be any different than calling Hidden Power with a move like Me First, Mirror Move, or Assist. In such cases, you can have the move come out as a Dark move even though it's some other type on the mon it was sourced from. This would force Blacephalon to use its own stats in determining the move, and those stats would still be incapable of getting a Fighting move out of it as ever, and seeing as Hidden Power is a universal TM anyway, this pretty much simplifies to "there's no reason to even bother putting this move in one of the passed moveslots, so don't do it."
The thing is, every moveslot is a passed moveslot.
Why the heck is this thread not stickied?
Also, I have a proposal that is not remotely serious, and I'm bringing it up for the express purpose of having it be added to the Rejected Metagames list so as to avoid it being tried for real — Five More Minutes, Mom: every Pokémon has Slow Start on top of their usual Ability. (Yes, I checked the Rejected Metagames list to make sure that nobody had already suggested this hare-brained idea in earnest, and I don't know whether to be relieved or scared that it isn't there, but it ought to be put there in order to ward off noobs. Before anyone asks, reading through the Rejected Metagames list reveals that somebody has already proposed a metagame where every Pokémon has Defeatist, which would probably be almost as unfun as a metagame where every Pokémon has Slow Start.)
Also, I have a proposal that is not remotely serious, and I'm bringing it up for the express purpose of having it be added to the Rejected Metagames list so as to avoid it being tried for real — Five More Minutes, Mom: every Pokémon has Slow Start on top of their usual Ability. (Yes, I checked the Rejected Metagames list to make sure that nobody had already suggested this hare-brained idea in earnest, and I don't know whether to be relieved or scared that it isn't there, but it ought to be put there in order to ward off noobs. Before anyone asks, reading through the Rejected Metagames list reveals that somebody has already proposed a metagame where every Pokémon has Defeatist, which would probably be almost as unfun as a metagame where every Pokémon has Slow Start.)
Last edited:
Build-A-Mon (Previously Perfect Partner){This might be a Petmod}
Every Trainer gets to Build-A-Mon! Pick your absolute favorite Pokémon and raise them into a Powerhouse!
OU-Based Metagame. The Pokémon in the first teamslot gets it’s Total Base Stats raised/lowered to 600 with individual stats being set to anything within a certain range as long as their relations to each other are maintained.
In other words, the lowest Stat is still the lowest, and the highest Stat is still the highest. If two or more Stats are equal, they don’t have to stay equal to each other and can be raised or lowered either way. Any Stat can be set equal to another Stat as long as the original positions are not inverted. So all Pokémon can potentially have 100 in every Stat.
Examples: Shuckle's lowest Stat has to be its Speed, but either Defense, Sp. Defense, or both can be it’s highest Stat(s). You can also make Shuckle's HP equal to its Def or SpD but not higher than either one. Chansey & Blissey's Highest Stat has to be HP, but either Attack, Defense, or both can be the lowest. If their BST is already 600 their stats can still be rearranged.
- Atk or SpAtk = 80-140; Atk + SpAtk = 160-250
- HP or Def or SpDef = 70-150; Def + SpDef = 140-250; HP + Def + SpDef = 250-350
- Speed = 60-140; Atk + SpAtk + Speed = 250-350
- All Pseudo-Legendaries fall into these ranges
Blissey
Original Stats 255/10/10/75/135/55
New Stats
150/90/90/90/90/90
OR 150/80/70/90/130/80
OR 140/80/70/90/140/80
OR 140/80/80/80/140/80
OR 130/80/80/100/130/80
OR 130/80/70/120/120/80
OR 130/80/70/100/130/90
OR 130/80/70/110/110/100
OR 120/80/70/120/120/90
OR 120/80/70/110/110/110
OR 110/80/80/110/110/110
OR 100/100/100/100/100/100
Cherrim(Grass-Fire)@Heat Rock
OG Stats: 70/60/70/87/78/85
New Stats: 80/80/80/140/90/130
Flower Gift
Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam/Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- HP Ground
Sunflora(Grass-Fire)@Heat Rock
OG Stats: 75/75/55/105/85/30
New Stats: 95/90/90/140/95/90
Chlorophyll
Modest Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam/Giga Drain
- HP Fire
- Earth Power
Arceus(Normal-Psychic)@Toxic Orb
OG Stats: 120/120/120/120/120/120
New Stats: 90/140/90/90/90/100
Ability: Quick Feet
Adamant Nature
252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Zen Headbutt
- Facade
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
Tsareena(Grass-Fighting)@Normalium Z/Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 72/120/98/50/98/72
New Stats: 80/129/104/80/104/104
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Adamant or Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Hi Jump Kick
- Trop Kick
- Knock Off
- Splash/U-Turn
Heatran(Fire-Steel)@Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 91/90/106/130/106/77
New Stats: 92/92/92/140/92/92
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest or Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Flash Cannon
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
Vikavolt(Bug-Electric)@Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 77/70/90/145/75/43
New Stats: 92/92/92/92/140/92
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
Mothim(Bug)@Leftovers
OG Stats: 70/94/50/94/50/66
New Stats: 103/104/70/140/70/103
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Roost/HP Rock
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
Blissey(Normal-Psychic)@Assault Vest
OG Stats: 255/10/10/75/135/55
New Stats: 100/100/100/100/100/100
Natural Cure
Adamant Nature
252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Double-Edge
Caterpie(Bug-Electric)@Normalium Z
OG Stats: 45/30/35/20/20/45
New Stats: 100/100/100/100/70/130
Technician
Modest Nature
4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe
- Electroweb
- Hidden Power Bug
- Nature Power
- Work Up
Unown(Psychic-Normal)@Choice Scarf
48/72/48/72/48/48
100/100/80/140/80/100
Technician
Timid Nature
252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Round
- Hidden Power Psychic
- Snore
- Nature Power
Uber’s can be Build-A-Mon but are otherwise banned. Megas can be Build-A-Mon without their Mega stones, including Mega-Rayquaza & Mega-Necrozma. In-Battle Forms that change Type and/or Base Stats are considered separate Pokémon and cannot change during battle.
For Example: Aegislash-Shield form and Aegislash-Sword form are separate Pokémon with different Stats. Same for Meloetta, Minior, Castform, etc.
However, Cherrim can form-change because it doesn’t affect its Typing or Stats. It gets an invisible Stat Boost from its Ability, but it’s Base Stats don’t change.
Build-A-Mon retain their Primary Type but their Secondary type matches the Move, including Status Moves, in their first Moveslot. If the first Move is the same as their Primary type, than they’re Monotype. Moves that change type(Hidden Power, Natural Gift, Weather Ball, Judgement, Multi-Attack, etc.), moves that call other moves(Metronome, Nature Power, Mimic, Copycat, Assist, etc.), and Transform can’t be placed in the first Moveslot.
Eviolite and all Signature Items are banned for Build-A-Mon only. That includes Signature Z-Crystals.
They can pick a new ability from a range of abilities based on their Primary type. They can also use any of their own abilities that aren’t Banned.
Edit: Build-A-Mon get access to all of the moves they ever learned, without restrictions on Abilities or Natures or Shininess. So, Build-A-Mon Heatran can use Eruption with any Nature. But, normal Heatran has to have a Quiet Nature to use Eruption.
New Typings will be displayed under Nicknames. Base Stats and Abilities are displayed when you hover your cursor over a Sprite. EVs and IVs aren’t displayed.
I think we could change Stats by putting numbers in (parentheses) within the EV boxes. Example:
HP [ (130) 4 ]
Attack [ (100) 252+ ]
Defense [ (70) ]
Special Attack [ (100) - ]
Special Defense [ (100) ]
Speed [ (100) 252 ]
Is that to complicated or can it be coded?
Potential threats: Smeargle, Mew, Disguise Mimikyu, Pokémon with all equal Stats can have any Stat spread they want.
I decided to put this in its own post with all of the updated information. I hope this doesn't count as a double-post.
Edit: Changed name and added Type-specific moves.
Every Trainer gets to Build-A-Mon! Pick your absolute favorite Pokémon and raise them into a Powerhouse!
OU-Based Metagame. The Pokémon in the first teamslot gets it’s Total Base Stats raised/lowered to 600 with individual stats being set to anything within a certain range as long as their relations to each other are maintained.
In other words, the lowest Stat is still the lowest, and the highest Stat is still the highest. If two or more Stats are equal, they don’t have to stay equal to each other and can be raised or lowered either way. Any Stat can be set equal to another Stat as long as the original positions are not inverted. So all Pokémon can potentially have 100 in every Stat.
Examples: Shuckle's lowest Stat has to be its Speed, but either Defense, Sp. Defense, or both can be it’s highest Stat(s). You can also make Shuckle's HP equal to its Def or SpD but not higher than either one. Chansey & Blissey's Highest Stat has to be HP, but either Attack, Defense, or both can be the lowest. If their BST is already 600 their stats can still be rearranged.
- Atk or SpAtk = 80-140; Atk + SpAtk = 160-250
- HP or Def or SpDef = 70-150; Def + SpDef = 140-250; HP + Def + SpDef = 250-350
- Speed = 60-140; Atk + SpAtk + Speed = 250-350
- All Pseudo-Legendaries fall into these ranges
Blissey
Original Stats 255/10/10/75/135/55
New Stats
150/90/90/90/90/90
OR 150/80/70/90/130/80
OR 140/80/70/90/140/80
OR 140/80/80/80/140/80
OR 130/80/80/100/130/80
OR 130/80/70/120/120/80
OR 130/80/70/100/130/90
OR 130/80/70/110/110/100
OR 120/80/70/120/120/90
OR 120/80/70/110/110/110
OR 110/80/80/110/110/110
OR 100/100/100/100/100/100
Cherrim(Grass-Fire)@Heat Rock
OG Stats: 70/60/70/87/78/85
New Stats: 80/80/80/140/90/130
Flower Gift
Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam/Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- HP Ground
Sunflora(Grass-Fire)@Heat Rock
OG Stats: 75/75/55/105/85/30
New Stats: 95/90/90/140/95/90
Chlorophyll
Modest Nature
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam/Giga Drain
- HP Fire
- Earth Power
Arceus(Normal-Psychic)@Toxic Orb
OG Stats: 120/120/120/120/120/120
New Stats: 90/140/90/90/90/100
Ability: Quick Feet
Adamant Nature
252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Zen Headbutt
- Facade
- Extreme Speed
- Swords Dance
Tsareena(Grass-Fighting)@Normalium Z/Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 72/120/98/50/98/72
New Stats: 80/129/104/80/104/104
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Adamant or Jolly Nature
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Hi Jump Kick
- Trop Kick
- Knock Off
- Splash/U-Turn
Heatran(Fire-Steel)@Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 91/90/106/130/106/77
New Stats: 92/92/92/140/92/92
Ability: Flash Fire
Modest or Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Flash Cannon
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
Vikavolt(Bug-Electric)@Choice Scarf
OG Stats: 77/70/90/145/75/43
New Stats: 92/92/92/92/140/92
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
Mothim(Bug)@Leftovers
OG Stats: 70/94/50/94/50/66
New Stats: 103/104/70/140/70/103
EVs: 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Roost/HP Rock
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
Blissey(Normal-Psychic)@Assault Vest
OG Stats: 255/10/10/75/135/55
New Stats: 100/100/100/100/100/100
Natural Cure
Adamant Nature
252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Double-Edge
Caterpie(Bug-Electric)@Normalium Z
OG Stats: 45/30/35/20/20/45
New Stats: 100/100/100/100/70/130
Technician
Modest Nature
4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe
- Electroweb
- Hidden Power Bug
- Nature Power
- Work Up
Unown(Psychic-Normal)@Choice Scarf
48/72/48/72/48/48
100/100/80/140/80/100
Technician
Timid Nature
252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Round
- Hidden Power Psychic
- Snore
- Nature Power
Uber’s can be Build-A-Mon but are otherwise banned. Megas can be Build-A-Mon without their Mega stones, including Mega-Rayquaza & Mega-Necrozma. In-Battle Forms that change Type and/or Base Stats are considered separate Pokémon and cannot change during battle.
For Example: Aegislash-Shield form and Aegislash-Sword form are separate Pokémon with different Stats. Same for Meloetta, Minior, Castform, etc.
However, Cherrim can form-change because it doesn’t affect its Typing or Stats. It gets an invisible Stat Boost from its Ability, but it’s Base Stats don’t change.
Build-A-Mon retain their Primary Type but their Secondary type matches the Move, including Status Moves, in their first Moveslot. If the first Move is the same as their Primary type, than they’re Monotype. Moves that change type(Hidden Power, Natural Gift, Weather Ball, Judgement, Multi-Attack, etc.), moves that call other moves(Metronome, Nature Power, Mimic, Copycat, Assist, etc.), and Transform can’t be placed in the first Moveslot.
Eviolite and all Signature Items are banned for Build-A-Mon only. That includes Signature Z-Crystals.
They can pick a new ability from a range of abilities based on their Primary type. They can also use any of their own abilities that aren’t Banned.
Edit: Build-A-Mon get access to all of the moves they ever learned, without restrictions on Abilities or Natures or Shininess. So, Build-A-Mon Heatran can use Eruption with any Nature. But, normal Heatran has to have a Quiet Nature to use Eruption.
Arena Trap
Bad Dreams
Beast Boost
Dancer
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Fur Coat
Gale Wings
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Innards Out
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Protean
Pure Power
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Simple
Speed Boost
Stance Change
Triage
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode
Bad Dreams
Beast Boost
Dancer
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Fur Coat
Gale Wings
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Innards Out
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Protean
Pure Power
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Simple
Speed Boost
Stance Change
Triage
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode
All Build-A-Mon can have one of these Abilities
Anticipation
Forewarn
Hyper Cutter
Keen Eye
Oblivious
Pickup
Pressure
Quick Feet
Rivalry
Skill Link
Sniper
Technician
Anticipation
Forewarn
Hyper Cutter
Keen Eye
Oblivious
Pickup
Pressure
Quick Feet
Rivalry
Skill Link
Sniper
Technician
Compoundeyes
Shed Skin
Shield Dust
Swarm
Shed Skin
Shield Dust
Swarm
Frisk
Infiltrator
Pickpocket
Infiltrator
Pickpocket
Marvel Scale
Mold Breaker
Mold Breaker
Minus
Motor Drive
Plus
Static
Motor Drive
Plus
Static
Cute Charm
Magician
Misty Surge
Magician
Misty Surge
Inner Focus
Iron Fist
Mold Breaker
Iron Fist
Mold Breaker
Blaze
Flame Body
Flash Fire
Magma Armor
Flame Body
Flash Fire
Magma Armor
Air Lock
Big Pecks
Early Bird
Big Pecks
Early Bird
Cursed Body
Levitate
Levitate
Grass Pelt
Leaf Guard
Overgrow
Sap Sipper
Leaf Guard
Overgrow
Sap Sipper
Sand Force
Ice Body
Cloud Nine
Poison Point
Shed Skin
Shed Skin
Analytic
Inner Focus
Levitate
Magician
Synchronize
Inner Focus
Levitate
Magician
Synchronize
Sturdy
Weak Armor
Weak Armor
Analytic
Heatproof
Heavy Metal
Light Metal
Weak Armor
Heatproof
Heavy Metal
Light Metal
Weak Armor
Damp
Marvel Scale
Torrent
Water Veil
Marvel Scale
Torrent
Water Veil
Belly Drum
Dark Void
Fissure
Geomancy
Guillotine
Heart Swap
Horn Drill
Ion Deluge
Magma Storm
Photon Geyser
Plasma Fists
Psyshock
Psystrike
Secret Sword
Seed Flare
Sheer Cold
Shell Smash
Spectral Thief
Dark Void
Fissure
Geomancy
Guillotine
Heart Swap
Horn Drill
Ion Deluge
Magma Storm
Photon Geyser
Plasma Fists
Psyshock
Psystrike
Secret Sword
Seed Flare
Sheer Cold
Shell Smash
Spectral Thief
All Build-A-Mon learn these moves:
Attract
Bide
Captivate
Celebrate
Confide
Counter
Curse
Double Team
Echoed Voice
Embargo
Facade
Feint
Flail
Fling
Focus Energy
Frustration
Giga Impact
Happy Hour
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Hyper Voice
Laser Focus
Natural Gift
Nature Power
Protect
Psych Up
Rage
Recycle
Rest
Retaliate
Return
Round
Secret Power
Sleep Talk
Snore
Substitute
Toxic
Work Up
Attract
Bide
Captivate
Celebrate
Confide
Counter
Curse
Double Team
Echoed Voice
Embargo
Facade
Feint
Flail
Fling
Focus Energy
Frustration
Giga Impact
Happy Hour
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Hyper Voice
Laser Focus
Natural Gift
Nature Power
Protect
Psych Up
Rage
Recycle
Rest
Retaliate
Return
Round
Secret Power
Sleep Talk
Snore
Substitute
Toxic
Work Up
Bug Buzz
Lunge
Lunge
Crunch
Dark Pulse
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Dragon Claw
Dragon Claw
Thunderbolt
Zing Zap
Zing Zap
Moon Blast
Play Rough
Play Rough
Aura Sphere
Sky Uppercut
Sky Uppercut
Flamethrower
Fire Lash
Fire Lash
Air Slash
Drill Peck
Drill Peck
Shadow Ball
Spirit Shackle
Spirit Shackle
Energy Ball
Leaf Blade
Leaf Blade
Earthquake
Earth Power
Earth Power
Ice Beam
Icicle Crash
Icicle Crash
Body Slam
Tri-Attack
Tri-Attack
Poison Jab
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Bomb
Psychic
Zen Headbutt
Zen Headbutt
Rock Slide
Power Gem
Power Gem
Iron Head
Flash Cannon
Flash Cannon
Surf
Liquidation
Liquidation
New Typings will be displayed under Nicknames. Base Stats and Abilities are displayed when you hover your cursor over a Sprite. EVs and IVs aren’t displayed.
I think we could change Stats by putting numbers in (parentheses) within the EV boxes. Example:
HP [ (130) 4 ]
Attack [ (100) 252+ ]
Defense [ (70) ]
Special Attack [ (100) - ]
Special Defense [ (100) ]
Speed [ (100) 252 ]
Is that to complicated or can it be coded?
Potential threats: Smeargle, Mew, Disguise Mimikyu, Pokémon with all equal Stats can have any Stat spread they want.
Is this to complicated to be an OM? Is it actually a Petmod?
How should species clause work? Can I have a Partner Shedinja and a regular Shedinja on the same team, or just one?
What potential threats can you see? What Abilities and/or Moves should be Banned?
What Abilities should go to multiple types?
Should Pokémon get access to Abilities based on their Secondary Type, as well?
Should Megas be allowed in addition to Partner Pokémon? Their similar concepts; raising one Pokémon to its full potential. I’d like to ban regular Megas, but I want to know what others think.
Should Disguise be Banned?
How should species clause work? Can I have a Partner Shedinja and a regular Shedinja on the same team, or just one?
What potential threats can you see? What Abilities and/or Moves should be Banned?
What Abilities should go to multiple types?
Should Pokémon get access to Abilities based on their Secondary Type, as well?
Should Megas be allowed in addition to Partner Pokémon? Their similar concepts; raising one Pokémon to its full potential. I’d like to ban regular Megas, but I want to know what others think.
Should Disguise be Banned?
I decided to put this in its own post with all of the updated information. I hope this doesn't count as a double-post.
Edit: Changed name and added Type-specific moves.
Last edited:
Hey, um, you completely forgot to establish what any of this has to do with "partners".
It's based on the concept of Pikachu-Partner and Eevee-Partner from LGPE, where they have different stats than usual members of their species.
- Status