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Project Metagame Workshop

grovylestand! said:
o...k? that seems a bit op maybe change that tho. do you have any top threats?
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Dynamax and Gigantamax are the biggest threats that come to mind; they will surely create the UBER and AG tiers for this format in the name of balance. On the other hand, I see many UBERs from older generations potentially becoming OUs in Anygen Goes.
 
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CROSSOVER GEN said:
1.Because both Clefable (RB and SV) will be available in the Pokémon selection when you choose the Anygen Goes format.
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No one is going to reprogram the teambuilder for a new OM. You need to work within the existing framework, which means you would probably need to use nicknames to indicate which gen you're using.
 
grovylestand! said:
how would the integration between nicknames and gens work (programer grovy speaking lol)
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I don't understand anything about programming, but I imagined a tab in TeamBuilder dividing the Pokémon by generation, so you could mix Pokémon from different generations if you wanted.

But again, I don't understand anything about programming, so someone else might be more helpful with that part.
 
alr lol i think having it be validation and nickname based should work. pretty much it will first validate that the nickname has format [Pokemon] [generation #] and then chek that gens legality and movepool and mechanics. It will have a teambuilder with every move possible. thats my best implementation
 
I do think the concept has potential, but there are a few currently to me: Megas, Dynamax, gen-to-gen mechanics, and un-nicked Pokemon. I also feel like this format would be better off as an OU-esque tier rather than AG-esque, since AG tiers would have significantly less variation than an OU-equivalent one, but it's technically up to you here. Nicknames would also be the only way this is coded ever; both Cassiopeia and Zarel would never let such a large teambuilder change happen just for a non-main OM, and main OMs already push their luck as is.

Back to my main questions.
  • How are Megas working? This would have to be an SV dex tier to even get considered, so adding Megas would feel a bit awkward. Would they need to be using Gen 6 AND have the base be SV-legal?
  • How is DMax balanced (its not but shush) in this tier? You can't modify how DMax works, since that turns the tier into a petmod.
  • How do gen-to-gen mechanics work? How would Drizzle work summoned from a Gen 5 Kyogre? Is a Gen 5 Kyogre's Surf 95 or 90BP? How about Gen 1 Mewtwo using Amnesia? How about FIWAM + Sitrus berries and the type-boosting items in general, including what happens with Bug Bite when attacking a Pokemon listed as a Gen 2/3 Pokemon holding a Sitrus/FIWAM berry? How about Abilities/Items on Pokemon that are "from" a gen before their introduction? How about Spikes from a Gen 2 Pokemon? Obviously some of those aren't OU legal but the questions remain still.
Anyway here's a couple teams I mocked up while pertaining to the original concept:
:calyrex-shadow::ho-oh::arceus-fairy::miraidon::groudon-primal::chansey: PDon Chansey Balance
:kyogre::miraidon::basculegion::lunala::ting-lu::arceus-fairy: BW Kyogre Rain Bulky BO (probably giga fraudulent)
:calyrex-shadow::rayquaza-mega::ting-lu::arceus-water::lunala::necrozma-dusk-mane: Scarf CSR + CB MRay Hazstack Double Defog (waterceus can be judg)
 
Clas said:
Back to my main questions.
  • How are Megas working? This would have to be an SV dex tier to even get considered, so adding Megas would feel a bit awkward. Would they need to be using Gen 6 AND have the base be SV-legal?
  • How is DMax balanced (its not but shush) in this tier? You can't modify how DMax works, since that turns the tier into a petmod.
  • How do gen-to-gen mechanics work? How would Drizzle work summoned from a Gen 5 Kyogre? Is a Gen 5 Kyogre's Surf 95 or 90BP? How about Gen 1 Mewtwo using Amnesia? How about FIWAM + Sitrus berries and the type-boosting items in general, including what happens with Bug Bite when attacking a Pokemon listed as a Gen 2/3 Pokemon holding a Sitrus/FIWAM berry? How about Abilities/Items on Pokemon that are "from" a gen before their introduction? How about Spikes from a Gen 2 Pokemon? Obviously some of those aren't OU legal but the questions remain still.
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From what I've gleaned from asking some questions,
1. A pokemon has to be set to gen 9 to tera, gen 8 to dynamax, gen 7 to use Z-moves and gen 6 or 7 to mega evolve.
Original Segment (from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/post-10887389 [post 2088]):
2. No, because if a Pokémon did not exist in a generation, it will not be able to use the special mechanics of that generation, so Shedinja Gen 9 would not exist in the metagame, whose idea is to be an Anything Goes between generations.
All special mechanics will be valid, but only Pokémon from generations that could use such mechanics will be able to use them.
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and 2. (I'm guessing here.) The base power, attacking stat, type, and crit chance are based on the attacker while the defending stat is based on the defender. Secondary effects seem to be based on both.
Original Segment (from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/post-10892784 [post 2094]):
3.The consequence of any effect takes precedence over who causes the effect in this format, so yes, RB Tauros will lose HP from burn just like in the 1st generation, regardless of whether the Pokémon that caused the burn is from the current generation.

To complement what I said (consequence >>>>>> cause) applies to everything; Imagine this scenario: your RB Tauros faces the opponent's SV Tauros:

Turn 1: The opponent's Tauros attacks first because it's holding a Choice Scarf (since your Tauros can't hold any items). They use Body Slam hoping to paralyze your Tauros, but they don't know that Generation 1 Normal-Types are immune to paralysis caused by secondary move effects. You then use Body Slam against the opponent's Tauros, and the paralysis works because current Normal-Types don't have the immunity your Tauros possesses.

Turn 2: The opponent's Tauros has lost speed due to paralysis, and now your Tauros attacks first. You expect to finish this battle with Hyper Beam because A) Hyper Beam in Generation 1 used ATK and B) You know there's a good chance of a critical hit because Tauros's SPE is high, and the chance of a critical hit increased the faster the Pokémon was in Generation 1; but the opponent's SV Tauros turns Steel-type and resists your powerful Hyper Beam. However, the damage the SV Tauros took (even after turning Steel-type) was high because A) The damage received was critical and B) Hyper Beam calculated the RB Tauros's ATK against the SV Tauros's SPD, since Hyper Beam is a physical move for RB Tauros, while the same move is special for SV Tauros, which had to defend with its SPD, not its DEF (remember: consequence >>>>>>> cause).
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If this tier is AG based, I don't think it'll try to balance dynamax.
 
Clas said:
I do think the concept has potential, but there are a few currently to me: Megas, Dynamax, gen-to-gen mechanics, and un-nicked Pokemon. I also feel like this format would be better off as an OU-esque tier rather than AG-esque, since AG tiers would have significantly less variation than an OU-equivalent one, but it's technically up to you here. Nicknames would also be the only way this is coded ever; both Cassiopeia and Zarel would never let such a large teambuilder change happen just for a non-main OM, and main OMs already push their luck as is.
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Thank you so much for your interest in my idea, I'm very grateful

I'll answer your questions in order. I also suggest reading TJTShowdown post where he clarifies some things, so let's go:


Clas said:
How are Megas working? This would have to be an SV dex tier to even get considered, so adding Megas would feel a bit awkward. Would they need to be using Gen 6 AND have the base be SV-legal?
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Mega evolutions work normally; I think they're easy to implement because, let's say you want to use a Mega Beedrill, so you choose an XY or SM Beedrill, since Beedrillite is only available in those generations.

Clas said:
How is DMax balanced (its not but shush) in this tier? You can't modify how DMax works, since that turns the tier into a petmod.
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I agree

Clas said:
How do gen-to-gen mechanics work? How would Drizzle work summoned from a Gen 5 Kyogre? Is a Gen 5 Kyogre's Surf 95 or 90BP? How about Gen 1 Mewtwo using Amnesia?
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A BW Kyogre's Drizzle functions as it did in Generation 5, just as its Surf's BP is 95. In short, the effect of abilities, move BP, Pokémon type, stats, EVERYTHING, is according to the chosen generation.

RB Mewtwo only has the Special that works with both SPA and SPD simultaneously, and its Amnesia will increase both, just like in the first generation.

Clas said:
How about FIWAM + Sitrus berries and the type-boosting items in general, including what happens with Bug Bite when attacking a Pokemon listed as a Gen 2/3 Pokemon holding a Sitrus/FIWAM berry? How about Abilities/Items on Pokemon that are "from" a gen before their introduction?
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Berries and Items:

First, let's talk about the item list: Just like with Beedrillite, which I mentioned above and only appears in the item list if you choose a BW Beedrill or SM Beedrill, the same applies to all other items and berries. For example, a 2nd generation Pokémon wouldn't have a Lum Berry available in its item list, but it would have a Miracle Berry or a Berserk Gene (items exclusive to the 2nd generation).

Regarding item mechanics, they function according to how they functioned with the Pokémon in their respective generation. In other words, the perfect functioning of the item/berry depends on whether both the item and the Pokémon itself correspond to the same generation (or generations where there were no changes). So, let's say your 4th generation Pokémon uses Bug Bite to eat the Miracle Berry of the opponent's 2nd generation Pokémon. Well, Bug Bite will cause damage and eat the Berry (since that's an effect of the move), but your Pokémon won't have the benefits because Miracle Berry doesn't exist in the 4th generation.

Clas said:
Obviously some of those aren't OU legal but the questions remain still.
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Regarding bans (things that were banned in one generation and not in another), I think the best solution is for Anygen Goes to be based on the AG level, and not on OU, as pointed out by TJTShowdown
 
TJTShowdown said:
From what I've gleaned from asking some questions,
1. A pokemon has to be set to gen 9 to tera, gen 8 to dynamax, gen 7 to use Z-moves and gen 6 or 7 to mega evolve.
Original Segment (from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/post-10887389 [post 2088]):

and 2. (I'm guessing here.) The base power, attacking stat, type, and crit chance are based on the attacker while the defending stat is based on the defender. Secondary effects seem to be based on both.
Original Segment (from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/post-10892784 [post 2094]):

If this tier is AG based, I don't think it'll try to balance dynamax.
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You understood the mechanics of Anygen Goes very well, and I agree with you about the level being AG, because putting it in OU would only complicate things!
 
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