Project Metagame Workshop

[CaioXLive12]

Rock-Paper-Chan!
Premise: All teams will consist of only 2-3 hitmonchans. They'll have the 3 following moves: Upper Hand, Focus Punch and Mach Punch, which will lead to a Rock-Paper-Scissor Match:

- Upper Hand beats Mach Punch, but loses to Focus Punch
- Mach Punch beats Focus Punch, but loses to Upper Hand
- Focus Punch beats Upper Hand but loses to Mach Punch

Banlist:
- All other moves except Upper Hand, Mach Punch and Focus Punch
- All other mons except Hitmonchan
- Terastal is banned.

Alternatively, instead of building a team, showdown could give you for the battle 2 hitmonchans, just like in randoms.

Questions:
- Can we code so that both Pokémons cant attack if both use the same move?

 

[grovylestand!]

that already exists in a form as a 1v1 1 chan format where they all have upper hand mach punch and focus punch.

 

[Delibird Heart]

High Noon
​

Premise: The speed stat no longer exists. In fact, the turn order no longer exists ! All actions happen simultaneously, and the results are evaluated at the end of the turn.

So let's say you have Cinderace vs Metagross for example. Cinderace clicks Pyro Ball, killing Metagross. In a normal game, because Cinderace is faster, it stops here. But here, because everything is simultaneous, Metagross also gets to click EQ and kill Cinderace back.

Another thing to consider is the way healing works here: Since you can heal even on a turn where you would die, until a turn ends and everything is properly evaluated, you can overheal (but all overheal returns to 100% at the end of a turn), or get overkilled, because else things get messy (for example if you can only be damaged down to 0% then spamming recover effectively makes you immortal). To avoid ties, if the last 2 mons kill eachother, the one who got overkilled the most loses. So in the case of the Cinderace vs Metagross scenario from earlier, assuming they were both at 100% and each of them was the last mon on their trainer's team:

(They would run max HP/bulk cause speed is useless.)
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Ok well I didnt expect them to live actually but lets pretend they both got the absolute maxroll -> Cinderace wins, because he did the most damage.


Status moves that would affect the other pokemon's move (Taunt, boosting your defenses, setting up terrain or a weather condition, etc...) are considered to take effect starting from the next turn (although this could be changed).

An exception is priority moves, which will still behave normally; if you kill something with priority, everything will happen as it would in normal game. Same if you die before using a negative prio move.

This has all sorts of interesting implications, such as:
- Bulkier mons or mons that have huge offenses but no speed become better.
- Purely offensive set up moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot aren't as good anymore, as even if you can ohko everything, you'll still take damage from them before. Stuff like bulk up/curse is favored instead (defense boosts only apply starting from the next turn however, consistently with the way status works).
- Sturdy becomes much better, as a mon living on 1% guarantees it will get another move off, even if it's slow (Any Forretress fans in the audience?)
- All pivoting is slow pivoting. This makes defensive pivots much better, but it's also weird because it's not like your switch in can outspeed on the next turn.
- Drain moves become much stronger, as they allow you to stay alive on a turn you would have otherwise died (Primarina, hatterene, and probably some grass types with stab giga drain become much better)
- And probably a bunch of other stuff, too ! This premise seems decently unique, I don't think I've heard of something like that before. There are probably still some rule points that need clarification I guess, but thats why the workshop thread exists :)

(I called it High Noon because in cowboy movies everyone turns around and shoots at the same time in the duel scenes, kinda)

 

[Cuddly]

Epyt Wen
​

Metagame Premise: In this metagame, every Pokemon’s typing is replaced by the typing that matches its reverse alphabetical order type (not including Stellar).

Example:

Pikachu is an Electric type and Electric the 4th type when you list each type alphabetically. So in this Metagame, Pikachu’s type would become the 4th last type, which is Psychic.

Charizard is a Fire/Flying type. Fire is the 7th type in alphabetical order, and Flying is 8th. In this metagame, Charizard would become an Ice/Ground type as Ice and Ground are the 7th and 8th last types alphabetically.

Every type conversion:
Bug -> Water
Dark -> Steel
Dragon -> Rock
Electric -> Psychic
Fairy -> Poison
Fighting -> Normal
Fire -> Ice
Flying -> Ground
Ghost -> Grass
Grass -> Ghost
Ground -> Flying
Ice -> Fire
Normal -> Fighting
Poison -> Fairy
Psychic -> Electric
Rock -> Dragon
Steel -> Dark
Water -> Bug

Potential Threats and “un-Threats”:

With Pokemon getting a bunch of new typings, some of them are buffed having a better type. Others get nerfed by losing their STABs and getting worse typings.
Annihilape goes from a Fighting/Ghost type tona Normal/Grass type. Being worse both defensively and losing that amazing STAB combo especially STAB Rage Fist, might cause Annihilape to be ok in the Meta.
Espathra isn’t so bad, but still loses out on STAB from Stored Power or any STAB at all.
Regieleki swaps types with Espathra, losing out in STAB entirely. Making its Thunderbolts and Volt Switches far weaker.
And Iron Bundle becomes terrible. Having Volcarona’s old typing and its only Bug move being U-turn, it is no longer such a massive threat.


Some Pokemon end up being completely unchanged. This gives them an edge as they don’t have to worry about changing up anything. Keeping their STABs and all.


Some Pokemon do get buffed thanks to 1 change or another.
Kommo-o becomes a Rock/Normal type. This typing is worse defensively, but as you might have guessed, gives Kommo-o valuable STAB on Boomburst.
Ting-Lu is already hard to take down, but now becomes a Steel/Flying type. Having only 1 weaknesses, 2 immunities, and an immunity to Poison/Toxic.
We also have Garganacl which is now a Pure Dragon type. Garg never really cared about its own STAB, so replacing its weakness filled Rock typing with one that has many resistances is a huge buff.
Some more arguably buffed Pokemon:
Normal/Dark with STAB Extreme Speed
Quark Drive Electric types with Electric being way better defensively than Psychic.
Dragon/Steel keeping its Sand immunity for a much stronger defensive typing.
Fairing much better with Electric and having Levitate too.

Questions:
-Should moves also be including in the changing of typings? This would change the viability of some Pokemon such as Kommo-o and Lucario missing out on STAB. However changing each move too would let most Pokemon keep their STABs.
-Would a different order be appropriate? Such as each type justing 9 places? Which would mean Bug becomes Ghost, Dark becomes Grass, etc.

 

[grovylestand!]

High Noon
​

Premise: The speed stat no longer exists. In fact, the turn order no longer exists ! All actions happen simultaneously, and the results are evaluated at the end of the turn.

So let's say you have Cinderace vs Metagross for example. Cinderace clicks Pyro Ball, killing Metagross. In a normal game, because Cinderace is faster, it stops here. But here, because everything is simultaneous, Metagross also gets to click EQ and kill Cinderace back.

Another thing to consider is the way healing works here: Since you can heal even on a turn where you would die, until a turn ends and everything is properly evaluated, you can overheal (but all overheal returns to 100% at the end of a turn), or get overkilled, because else things get messy (for example if you can only be damaged down to 0% then spamming recover effectively makes you immortal). To avoid ties, if the last 2 mons kill eachother, the one who got overkilled the most loses. So in the case of the Cinderace vs Metagross scenario from earlier, assuming they were both at 100% and each of them was the last mon on their trainer's team:

(They would run max HP/bulk cause speed is useless.)
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Ok well I didnt expect them to live actually but lets pretend they both got the absolute maxroll -> Cinderace wins, because he did the most damage.


Status moves that would affect the other pokemon's move (Taunt, boosting your defenses, setting up terrain or a weather condition, etc...) are considered to take effect starting from the next turn (although this could be changed).

An exception is priority moves, which will still behave normally; if you kill something with priority, everything will happen as it would in normal game. Same if you die before using a negative prio move.

This has all sorts of interesting implications, such as:
- Bulkier mons or mons that have huge offenses but no speed become better.
- Purely offensive set up moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot aren't as good anymore, as even if you can ohko everything, you'll still take damage from them before. Stuff like bulk up/curse is favored instead (defense boosts only apply starting from the next turn however, consistently with the way status works).
- Sturdy becomes much better, as a mon living on 1% guarantees it will get another move off, even if it's slow (Any Forretress fans in the audience?)
- All pivoting is slow pivoting. This makes defensive pivots much better, but it's also weird because it's not like your switch in can outspeed on the next turn.
- Drain moves become much stronger, as they allow you to stay alive on a turn you would have otherwise died (Primarina, hatterene, and probably some grass types with stab giga drain become much better)
- And probably a bunch of other stuff, too ! This premise seems decently unique, I don't think I've heard of something like that before. There are probably still some rule points that need clarification I guess, but thats why the workshop thread exists :)

(I called it High Noon because in cowboy movies everyone turns around and shoots at the same time in the duel scenes, kinda)

i like this concept ill look into strategies. presumably weird abilities like stakeout would be banned but has potential

 

[grovylestand!]

now the concept is great but im not sure how it would be implemented. like how does prio work and most importantly how do same turn boosts realistically apply?

 

[Ihateclodsire]

Hi, I don’t know if this counts as an OM, but it can’t be an unnoficial meta since it’s not possible on cartridge, but I thonk
An ADV metagame where Pokemon can use moves that they lost from the gens 2-3 shift would be fun, like giving dragonite a niche over salamence or thanks to it having Espeed, or being able to use lovely kiss Snorlax and Nidoking

 

[Cuddly]

High Noon
​

Premise: The speed stat no longer exists. In fact, the turn order no longer exists ! All actions happen simultaneously, and the results are evaluated at the end of the turn.

So let's say you have Cinderace vs Metagross for example. Cinderace clicks Pyro Ball, killing Metagross. In a normal game, because Cinderace is faster, it stops here. But here, because everything is simultaneous, Metagross also gets to click EQ and kill Cinderace back.

Another thing to consider is the way healing works here: Since you can heal even on a turn where you would die, until a turn ends and everything is properly evaluated, you can overheal (but all overheal returns to 100% at the end of a turn), or get overkilled, because else things get messy (for example if you can only be damaged down to 0% then spamming recover effectively makes you immortal). To avoid ties, if the last 2 mons kill eachother, the one who got overkilled the most loses. So in the case of the Cinderace vs Metagross scenario from earlier, assuming they were both at 100% and each of them was the last mon on their trainer's team:

(They would run max HP/bulk cause speed is useless.)
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Ok well I didnt expect them to live actually but lets pretend they both got the absolute maxroll -> Cinderace wins, because he did the most damage.


Status moves that would affect the other pokemon's move (Taunt, boosting your defenses, setting up terrain or a weather condition, etc...) are considered to take effect starting from the next turn (although this could be changed).

An exception is priority moves, which will still behave normally; if you kill something with priority, everything will happen as it would in normal game. Same if you die before using a negative prio move.

This has all sorts of interesting implications, such as:
- Bulkier mons or mons that have huge offenses but no speed become better.
- Purely offensive set up moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot aren't as good anymore, as even if you can ohko everything, you'll still take damage from them before. Stuff like bulk up/curse is favored instead (defense boosts only apply starting from the next turn however, consistently with the way status works).
- Sturdy becomes much better, as a mon living on 1% guarantees it will get another move off, even if it's slow (Any Forretress fans in the audience?)
- All pivoting is slow pivoting. This makes defensive pivots much better, but it's also weird because it's not like your switch in can outspeed on the next turn.
- Drain moves become much stronger, as they allow you to stay alive on a turn you would have otherwise died (Primarina, hatterene, and probably some grass types with stab giga drain become much better)
- And probably a bunch of other stuff, too ! This premise seems decently unique, I don't think I've heard of something like that before. There are probably still some rule points that need clarification I guess, but thats why the workshop thread exists :)

(I called it High Noon because in cowboy movies everyone turns around and shoots at the same time in the duel scenes, kinda)

This entire post feels like that explaination of what blind people see by imagining looking out your elbow. It legitimately doesn’t make any sense.
Turn order is a massive part of the game and how the game even functions to begin with. Aside from the fact that the entire game is balanced around that idea, where faster Pokemon are typically frailer and weaker to compensate for how fast they are, tons of mechanics rely on turn order.
What are you gonna do about weather and terrain being set the same turn? How would Libero in that example work if say Cinderace used U-turn? How would you handle Metagross using Meteor Mash and getting an Atk boost? What about Protect? What about flinching moves? What happens when your item changes like when Knock Off removes a Choice Band? If this were doubles, what would happen if your Pokemon use Scald into the same target, both burn, but the target is holding a Lum Berry? What happens when both players knock out each other’s Pokemon by a direct attack?
Again, that’s only mentioning the technical problems. This entire metagame idea would invalidate a majority of Pokemon, as well as a good chunk of moves and abilities becoming useless or near useless. Agility? Dragon Dance? Trick Room? Swift Swim? Speed Boost? All of these things are now useless or complete dogshit.
Might as well only run the bulkiest and hardest hitting Pokemon, only being concerned how much harder your toy can hit vs your opponents.

 

[Lectrys]

High Noon
​

Premise: The speed stat no longer exists. In fact, the turn order no longer exists ! All actions happen simultaneously, and the results are evaluated at the end of the turn.

So let's say you have Cinderace vs Metagross for example. Cinderace clicks Pyro Ball, killing Metagross. In a normal game, because Cinderace is faster, it stops here. But here, because everything is simultaneous, Metagross also gets to click EQ and kill Cinderace back.

Another thing to consider is the way healing works here: Since you can heal even on a turn where you would die, until a turn ends and everything is properly evaluated, you can overheal (but all overheal returns to 100% at the end of a turn), or get overkilled, because else things get messy (for example if you can only be damaged down to 0% then spamming recover effectively makes you immortal). To avoid ties, if the last 2 mons kill eachother, the one who got overkilled the most loses. So in the case of the Cinderace vs Metagross scenario from earlier, assuming they were both at 100% and each of them was the last mon on their trainer's team:

(They would run max HP/bulk cause speed is useless.)
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Ok well I didnt expect them to live actually but lets pretend they both got the absolute maxroll -> Cinderace wins, because he did the most damage.


Status moves that would affect the other pokemon's move (Taunt, boosting your defenses, setting up terrain or a weather condition, etc...) are considered to take effect starting from the next turn (although this could be changed).

An exception is priority moves, which will still behave normally; if you kill something with priority, everything will happen as it would in normal game. Same if you die before using a negative prio move.

This has all sorts of interesting implications, such as:
- Bulkier mons or mons that have huge offenses but no speed become better.
- Purely offensive set up moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot aren't as good anymore, as even if you can ohko everything, you'll still take damage from them before. Stuff like bulk up/curse is favored instead (defense boosts only apply starting from the next turn however, consistently with the way status works).
- Sturdy becomes much better, as a mon living on 1% guarantees it will get another move off, even if it's slow (Any Forretress fans in the audience?)
- All pivoting is slow pivoting. This makes defensive pivots much better, but it's also weird because it's not like your switch in can outspeed on the next turn.
- Drain moves become much stronger, as they allow you to stay alive on a turn you would have otherwise died (Primarina, hatterene, and probably some grass types with stab giga drain become much better)
- And probably a bunch of other stuff, too ! This premise seems decently unique, I don't think I've heard of something like that before. There are probably still some rule points that need clarification I guess, but thats why the workshop thread exists :)

(I called it High Noon because in cowboy movies everyone turns around and shoots at the same time in the duel scenes, kinda)

I'm seeing just as many nightmares programming this and nasty implications regarding moves as with this proposed OM from 2024, "My Turn", where each player takes their turns at completely different times and players do not input their moves/switches simultaneously like they usually do: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metagame-workshop.3709907/post-10315178

For nasty implications, priority is wiped out in both your OM and "My Turn", and abilities that raise priority such as Prankster go through similar wipeout hell.

Admittedly, your OM has the additional problems of Flinch either not working at all or only working the next turn, and moves like Focus Punch and Beak Blast having strange timing logistics (say they use Focus Punch and you use Ice Punch simultaneously - do they punch you or not? Do they flinch next turn or not?).