Project Metagame Workshop

[Electra102]

ANYGEN GOES

I do have some questions to add to this-

1. How would moves on Pokemon in older generations interact with effects that weren’t introduced yet? For example, would RBY Zapdos have a chance to miss its Thunder in Rain? Would RBY Mewtwo’s Psychic be boosted by Psychic Terrain?

2. Would we let Smeargle Sketch the special starter moves from Let’s Go, such as Sparkly Swirl or Baddy Bad?

3. What about changes to the type chart? Would RBY Mewtwo be immune to Ghost? Would a GSC Steelix resist Dark?

4. Damage formulas have changed throughout Pokemon’s history. Would this be implemented in some way, with older-gen Pokemon using older damage formulas?

5. Would this format support Pokemon from LGPE, BDSP, Legends: Arceus, and Legends: Z-A? Z-A in particular is rather interesting, since it gives us Zygarde-Mega in addition to the OHKO moves becoming base 250 power.

6. If supported, how would Let’s Go and Z-A mega evolution mechanics work? Would you simply let, say, a Charizard from LGPE to mega evolve into either of its mega evolutions without a stone? Would a Charizard-Mega-Y from LGPE or Z-A have Drought, or no ability?

This format is really interesting as a premise, but would probably be a nightmare to code.

Anyways, on a final note, here’s a team I threw together (assuming Z-A is allowed)-



EDIT: Most of my questions were asked based on the assumption that the list of allowed Pokemon is based on the Pokedex of the selected generation they are to be from, and not National Dex or SV Dex. For example, I am assuming that USUM Kartana would be allowed, but not SV Kartana.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

1. How would moves on Pokemon in older generations interact with effects that weren’t introduced yet? For example, would RBY Zapdos have a chance to miss its Thunder in Rain? Would RBY Mewtwo’s Psychic be boosted by Psychic Terrain?

The effects of moves that didn't exist in previous generations are retroactive because that's an effect of the move itself. So, Thunder from RB Zapdos wouldn't miss during rain, just as the Psychic from RB Mewtwo would be boosted during Psychic Terrain. Similarly, the same applies to Baton Pass, passing the buffs to 1st-generation Pokémon. As I said, the effect is from the move, not the Pokémon (and Baton Pass is the perfect example to explain this, because just as it has its effect that must be respected, the division of Special Attack and Special Defense that didn't exist in RB Zapdos and RB Mewtwo will result in a buff to both Special stats, because now we're talking about the characteristics of this generation's Pokémon, not the moves themselves).

2. Would we let Smeargle Sketch the special starter moves from Let’s Go, such as Sparkly Swirl or Baddy Bad?

No, because this format assumes that the Pokémon can do everything it can do within the game (like AG), and Smeargle wasn't available in Let's Go.

3. What about changes to the type chart? Would RBY Mewtwo be immune to Ghost? Would a GSC Steelix resist Dark?

The Type Chart should follow the most up-to-date version, otherwise it will only complicate things further, but the Pokemon's type will be according to the chosen generation; a RB Magneton will be pure Electric and a DP Togekiss will be Normal/Flying.

4. Damage formulas have changed throughout Pokemon’s history. Would this be implemented in some way, with older-gen Pokemon using older damage formulas?

I must admit that I didn't think about the damage formula overall; I ended up focusing on other things like how the Pokémon's speed influences the chance of critical damage (in the case of RB) and the base power of the moves, respecting the generation of the chosen Pokémon. So we need to talk about the damage formula.

5. Would this format support Pokemon from LGPE, BDSP, Legends: Arceus, and Legends: Z-A? Z-A in particular is rather interesting, since it gives us Zygarde-Mega in addition to the OHKO moves becoming base 250 power.

My wish is that the format accepts absolutely everything lol, it's up to the most dedicated players to give this kind of feedback like yours so we can have a fun format to play : )

6. If supported, how would Let’s Go and Z-A mega evolution mechanics work? Would you simply let, say, a Charizard from LGPE to mega evolve into either of its mega evolutions without a stone? Would a Charizard-Mega-Y from LGPE or Z-A have Drought, or no ability?

Well, if Let's Go and Z-A fits into Anygen Goes, then the answer to all these questions is yes (regarding the mechanics of each generation, including the lack of ability in the example of Mega Charizard Y from LGPE and Z-A), because the intention of the format is to allow for the maximum potential that each generation can/can have.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

Question for friends (this format isn't mine; it's OURS):

Should CAPs be included in Anygen Goes? After all, this format is emerging here, not at Nintendo, and CAPs have a history with us since the 4th generation.

What about MissingNo and M' from the 1st generation? They could be legally obtained within the games relatively easily (unlike the other more obscure glitchmon), and the premise of Anygen Goes is to allow us to use everything we could in any generation.

These are two points that came to mind!

 

[Electra102]

Should CAPs be included in Anygen Goes? After all, this format is emerging here, not at Nintendo, and CAPs have a history with us since the 4th generation.

CAP is not a part of the Pokemon games, which this is based on, so I don’t think including them makes much sense.

What about MissingNo and M' from the 1st generation? They could be legally obtained within the games relatively easily (unlike the other more obscure glitchmon), and the premise of Anygen Goes is to allow us to use everything we could in any generation.

I would say no to this, if for no other reason than them requiring glitches to obtain. Also, all of the glitchmons can be obtained through glitches (I assume that is what you mean by “legally obtained”), and many of them are version-specific, so we would need to add in (I think) around ninety or so each for the American versions of Red / Blue and Yellow, and then add in a handful more to account for Gold / Silver / Crystal. Things get really messy with ADV, since there would need to be roughly 65,000 glitch Pokemon added, just for Ruby / Sapphire. However, take this with a grain of salt, since I don’t know how many glitchmons are shared between Ruby and Sapphire, and this is assuming we don’t exclude the ones that crash your game.

All of this is to say that including glitchmons is really cool as an idea, but is not a practical choice in the slightest.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

The effects of moves that didn't exist in previous generations are retroactive because that's an effect of the move itself. So, Thunder from RB Zapdos wouldn't miss during rain, just as the Psychic from RB Mewtwo would be boosted during Psychic Terrain. Similarly, the same applies to Baton Pass, passing the buffs to 1st-generation Pokémon. As I said, the effect is from the move, not the Pokémon (and Baton Pass is the perfect example to explain this, because just as it has its effect that must be respected, the division of Special Attack and Special Defense that didn't exist in RB Zapdos and RB Mewtwo will result in a buff to both Special stats, because now we're talking about the characteristics of this generation's Pokémon, not the moves themselves).


No, because this format assumes that the Pokémon can do everything it can do within the game (like AG), and Smeargle wasn't available in Let's Go.


The Type Chart should follow the most up-to-date version, otherwise it will only complicate things further, but the Pokemon's type will be according to the chosen generation; a RB Magneton will be pure Electric and a DP Togekiss will be Normal/Flying.


I must admit that I didn't think about the damage formula overall; I ended up focusing on other things like how the Pokémon's speed influences the chance of critical damage (in the case of RB) and the base power of the moves, respecting the generation of the chosen Pokémon. So we need to talk about the damage formula.


My wish is that the format accepts absolutely everything lol, it's up to the most dedicated players to give this kind of feedback like yours so we can have a fun format to play : )


Well, if Let's Go and Z-A fits into Anygen Goes, then the answer to all these questions is yes, because the intention of the format is to allow for the maximum potential that each generation can/can have.

Electra102

Did I manage to clarify your doubts?

 

[grovylestand!]

use gen 9 calculator i think

 

[grovylestand!]

also what about things like gen 1 explosion. i think those should exist

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

also what about things like gen 1 explosion. i think those should exist

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, Explosion used to ignore the opponent's DEF, right? So yes, Pokémon from the generations where Explosion worked that way would continue to do so; we can use a Generation 9 damage calculator to simplify things, but the effects and BP of the moves will be in accordance with their respective generations.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

My friends, I just thought about Imposter and Transform; to avoid any doubt, both work perfectly even if Ditto, Mew, and Smeargle transform into the opponent, even if it's from a completely different generation.
For example, in a scenario where a RB Mew uses Transform to transform into the opponent's BW Kyogre, the transformed Mew will gain the base Special Attack and Special Defense split and everything related to the 5th generation, such as the changes to physical and special moves.
This will make things much easier, and the same applies to the reverse (a Pokémon from a newer generation transforming into a Pokémon from a generation where the differences in physical and special moves were by type, for example).

Natures are easier because they don't change when the Pokémon transforms, and every RB Pokémon can have a neutral nature that cannot be changed (Hardy, Quirk, Serious...). I think it's the same in the RBY format, right?

 

[Electra102]

Electra102

Did I manage to clarify your doubts?

You did for the most part, thank you. The only question not properly answered was if a Charizard-Mega-Y from LGPE or Z-A have Drought or not (I formatted the question as an either-or and it was answered with a yes).

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, Explosion used to ignore the opponent's DEF, right?

Not quite. Pre-BW Explosion would actually halve the opponent's defense while calculating damage, not ignore it entirely.

---

To make this a bit longer of a post, here are some Pokemon that I think might be good in this format, and why.

Golisopod-Mega (Z-A)- Maybe I'm just crazy, but I think this Pokemon could maybe do something. You lose Emergency Exit, gain 25 Attack, 35 Defense, and 30 Special Defense, in addition to the Steel-type over the Water-type. You also keep First Impression and Spikes, and gain U-Turn. Again, maybe I'm just crazy, but I would personally give this thing a try (assuming I'm not running a Zygarde-Mega on my team).

Groudon + Kyogre (BW / SM)- They regain permanent weather from BW, in addition to their Primal forms. I can definitely see weather wars between these two and their Primal forms.

Latias- Regains the pre-nerf bulk and power of Soul Dew, in addition to a 32 PP recovery move in pre-DPP Recover.

Mewtwo (RBY)- Mewtwo could obviously be given an offensive role- it has great coverage options (STAB Psychic, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard / Ice Beam), a pre-nerf Amnesia, and a pre-nerf (although -70 Power) Self-Destruct. However, I honestly think Mewtwo could really shine defensively- it rivals Lugia and Ho-Oh with its base 106 HP and base 154 Special (Defense). Amnesia not only makes it even bulkier on the special side, but it also allows Mewtwo to not be a passive wall and actually threaten the opponent. It also gains a 32 PP recovery option in pre-DPP Recover, and also has Barrier to help out with its physical defense.

Zacian-Crowned (SWSH)- Regains pre-nerf Intrepid Sword, in addition to its old stats, but does lose Terastalization as a result. Not much else to say here.

Zygarde-Complete / Zygarde-Mega (Z-A)- None of the forms care much about losing Aura Break, and all of them have a base 250 Power Fissure, Scale Shot, Dragon Dance, and Thousand Arrows. Zygarde-Mega can run a very interesting mixed set, since it gains a ton of Special Attack after Mega Evolving, and can run moves such as Nihil Light and Earth Power.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

You did for the most part, thank you. The only question not properly answered was if a Charizard-Mega-Y from LGPE or Z-A have Drought or not (I formatted the question as an either-or and it was answered with a yes).

I actually formulated the answer poorly, my "yes" was in relation to respecting the mechanics of the chosen generation, so more precisely, Mega Charizard Y from LGPE and Z-A has no ability.

I'll edit there!

Not quite. Pre-BW Explosion would actually halve the opponent's defense while calculating damage, not ignore it entirely.

Yes, I had this doubt because it's been years since I played the older generations, so confirming that the Explosion of any Pokémon chosen from the RB/GS/RS/DP generations will be better than the BW versions onwards!

Mewtwo (RBY)- Mewtwo could obviously be given an offensive role- it has great coverage options (STAB Psychic, Thunderbolt, and Blizzard / Ice Beam), a pre-nerf Amnesia, and a pre-nerf (although -70 Power) Self-Destruct. However, I honestly think Mewtwo could really shine defensively- it rivals Lugia and Ho-Oh with its base 106 HP and base 154 Special (Defense). Amnesia not only makes it even bulkier on the special side, but it also allows Mewtwo to not be a passive wall and actually threaten the opponent. It also gains a 32 PP recovery option in pre-DPP Recover, and also has Barrier to help out with its physical defense.

RB Mewtwo will be a meta in this format without a doubt, I would test a mixed attacker with Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Submission, the latter to be able to have coverage against Dark Types and bulky Normal Types.

 

[Cuddly]

ANYGEN GOES

Concept: The evolution of Anything Goes, where anything that has ever existed in Pokémon can be used from any generation; you could assemble a team with a Gen I Clefable that will have its stats from that era, be Normal type, its Hyper Beam won't need to recharge if it knocks out the opponent, and it will be immune to Body Slam paralysis, and on the same team a Clefable from the current generation with updated stats, Fairy type, its Hyper Beam will no longer be a viable option and it can be paralyzed by Body Slam, unless it's holding a Lum Berry.

I gave the example of two Clefable on the same team because it's an easy example to explain; just imagine the infinite possibilities of teams and strategies!

I also thought about a hacked version of Anygen Goes, allowing everything that has been possible to obtain with hacks in any generation, from MissingNo. from Gen I, through the Pokéstar Studios opponents from Gen V, and reaching the infamous Eternamax Eternatus from Gen VIII

Well, that's my suggestion; I suggested something similar when I registered on the forum years ago with an idea that is my nickname, but I'd like to know if TODAY this is viable and if the forum members think it's worth testing : )

This would definitely be more akin to a Petmod. Way too many moving parts for an OM. Try submitting this over by the Petmod or Solomod section.

 

[grovylestand!]

i recommend still doing it oms. just plza and lgpe need to be a big no. too much pet mod