OU Metagross

Muk said:
I think you should refer to the Pokemon as Metagross throughout the analysis, not Mega Metagross (other than when mentioning things specific to the Mega, like having 110 Speed).

If you agree but feel too lazy to change it, I will personally do it via SCMS lol.
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thats something to bring up with GP cuz i had it that way but they changed it to mega metagross, so if thats something u wanna do be my guest. i dont feel like taking the time to do that since i have a lot of other things to worry about

anyways working on the update on the sets n stuff
 
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-Clone- said:
thats something to bring up with GP cuz i had it that way but they changed it to mega metagross, so if thats something u wanna do be my guest. i dont feel like taking the time to do that since i have a lot of other things to worry about

anyways working on the update on the sets n stuff
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Do Mega Metagross if you're specifically referring to the Mega version please. Thanks.

Edit for clarification:

Follow these rules from the SGS

  • Always refer to the Mega Evolution of a Pokemon as "Mega [Pokemon]"
  • In any section where both the Mega Evolution and normal state are talked about, use the name of the Pokemon with no prefix (Tyranitar has exceptional Attack). If only the Mega Evolution or normal state is being discussed, ensure that this is clarified (Mega Tyranitar has good Speed, while non-Mega Tyranitar's Speed is a bit lacking).
 
-Clone-

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Moves
========
Meteor Mash is Mega Metagross's main STAB move, sporting great power and hitting the Fairy-types Mega Metagross checks super effectively. Zen Headbutt is necessary to take on the Fighting- and Poison-types that Mega Metagross checks, while also scoring a crucial 2HKO against Rotom-W, which would otherwise wall Mega Metagross. The third slot is Metagross's most versatile, as it has many viable options to choose from. Bullet Punch is the most optimal move, as it has the most overall utility. It can be used to revenge kill faster threats, avoid Speed ties with opposing base 110 Speed Pokemon when they are weakened, and be used as a reliable STAB move when missing can cost you the game. Grass Knot is also a viable option, as it hits Slowbro, physically defensive Mega Slowbro, Quagsire, and Hippowdon super effectively, and scores a 2HKO at worst against them. Ice Punch is the last move that can be used in this slot, as it is able to hit Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T 4x super effectively, which Meteor Mash fails to do. Additionally, it hits bulky Grass-types such as Celebi and Tangrowth harder than any other Move Metagross carries. In the last slot, Hammer Arm is given preference as it Arm 2HKOes Ferrothorn and offensive Mega Scizor while also beating Skarmory that lack Counter one-on-one, thanks to the Speed drop allowing Mega Metagross to hit Skarmory after the Roost. However, Earthquake is a viable alternative if the Speed drop is unappealing and hitting Jirachi, Magnezone, Heatran, and opposing Metagross is necessary. Thunder Punch is also an option as it hits bulky Water-types and Flying-types for respectable damage, which Metagross's STAB moves fail to do against targets such as Skarmory, Slowbro, and Alomomola. Finally, Pursuit can be used to trap Latios and Latias while also getting chip damage against other targets such as Mega Gardevoir.

Set Details
========
Maximum Attack and Speed investment is needed to hit as hard and fast as possible, while a Jolly nature is used to ensure a Speed tie against opposing base 110 Speed Pokemon. Clear Body prevents stat drops from Intimidate and Sticky Web. Alternatively, an Adamant nature can be used with HP investment to better act as an offensive tank, as it such a set is both more powerful and more durable than the Jolly set. The best EV spread to use is 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe, as it which outspeeds everything up to Jolly Excadrill. Additionally, the increase in power from using an Adamant nature is incredible. For example, you Mega Metagross achieves a guaranteed OHKO against physically defensive Mega Sableye, which is an otherwise very solid check to Mega Metagross, as well as a general increase in power.


Other Options
########
Mega Metagross has access to Stealth Rock, so a bulky Stealth Rock set with HP and Attack investment can be used as an entry hazard setter that helps keep Stealth Rock up through its great offensive presence. Toxic can be used on to lure in bulky walls Mega Metagross has lured in such as Cresselia, Alomomola, and Slowbro. Finally, Substitute is an option to avoid mind games with Bisharp and avoid a Sucker Punch, as well as avoid status from defensive Pokemon that could otherwise give it trouble. Power-Up Punch in combination with Substitute allows Metagross to set up on would-be counters such as Alomomola and Ferrothorn, which have no way of breaking its Substitutes and become complete setup bait.
gato
 
GatoDelFuego said:
-Clone-

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Moves
========
Meteor Mash is Mega Metagross's main STAB move, sporting great power and hitting the Fairy-types Mega Metagross checks super effectively. Zen Headbutt is necessary to take on the Fighting- and Poison-types that Mega Metagross checks, while also scoring a crucial 2HKO against Rotom-W, which would otherwise wall Mega Metagross. The third slot is Metagross's most versatile, as it has many viable options to choose from. Bullet Punch is the most optimal move, as it has the most overall utility. It can be used to revenge kill faster threats, avoid Speed ties with opposing base 110 Speed Pokemon when they are weakened, and be used as a reliable STAB move when missing can cost you the game. Grass Knot is also a viable option, as it hits Slowbro, physically defensive Mega Slowbro, Quagsire, and Hippowdon super effectively, and scores a 2HKO at worst against them. Ice Punch is the last move that can be used in this slot, as it is able to hit Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T 4x super effectively, which Meteor Mash fails to do. Additionally, it hits bulky Grass-types such as Celebi and Tangrowth harder than any other Move Metagross carries. In the last slot, Hammer Arm is given preference as it Arm 2HKOes Ferrothorn and offensive Mega Scizor while also beating Skarmory that lack Counter one-on-one, thanks to the Speed drop allowing Mega Metagross to hit Skarmory after the Roost. However, Earthquake is a viable alternative if the Speed drop is unappealing and hitting Jirachi, Magnezone, Heatran, and opposing Metagross is necessary. Thunder Punch is also an option as it hits bulky Water-types and Flying-types for respectable damage, which Metagross's STAB moves fail to do against targets such as Skarmory, Slowbro, and Alomomola. Finally, Pursuit can be used to trap Latios and Latias while also getting chip damage against other targets such as Mega Gardevoir.

Set Details
========
Maximum Attack and Speed investment is needed to hit as hard and fast as possible, while a Jolly nature is used to ensure a Speed tie against opposing base 110 Speed Pokemon. Clear Body prevents stat drops from Intimidate and Sticky Web. Alternatively, an Adamant nature can be used with HP investment to better act as an offensive tank, as it such a set is both more powerful and more durable than the Jolly set. The best EV spread to use is 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe, as it which outspeeds everything up to Jolly Excadrill. Additionally, the increase in power from using an Adamant nature is incredible. For example, you Mega Metagross achieves a guaranteed OHKO against physically defensive Mega Sableye, which is an otherwise very solid check to Mega Metagross, as well as a general increase in power.


Other Options
########
Mega Metagross has access to Stealth Rock, so a bulky Stealth Rock set with HP and Attack investment can be used as an entry hazard setter that helps keep Stealth Rock up through its great offensive presence. Toxic can be used on to lure in bulky walls Mega Metagross has lured in such as Cresselia, Alomomola, and Slowbro. Finally, Substitute is an option to avoid mind games with Bisharp and avoid a Sucker Punch, as well as avoid status from defensive Pokemon that could otherwise give it trouble. Power-Up Punch in combination with Substitute allows Metagross to set up on would-be counters such as Alomomola and Ferrothorn, which have no way of breaking its Substitutes and become complete setup bait.
gato
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appreciate it, thanks =]

Jukain is there anything else that needs to be fixed or is this ready for upload?
 
If grass knot has a slash, shouldn't a naive nature be slashed to reflect that?
Idk if there is a significant difference in grass knots power between a negative and neutral natured special attack.
 
Lando-T and Victini should be mentioned as checks. Lando can still Intimidate the MEvo of it has VoltTurn support and the bulker variants can eat up -1 attacks more than once. Victini resists everything bar Earthquake and threatens back with V-Create, and mixed life variants will still neuter you in Glaciate mispredicts.

Also mention priority T-Wave users, since Metagross likes its Speed against offensive teams (especially if it's Agility).
 
Can their please be a mention of Refresh somewhere on M-Gross in OO? It's a really nice option to catch stuff off guard and gives you the luxury of fixing a screw up such as burns and paralysis allowing it to be more self sufficient for certain teams and not totally dependent on a Sub that leaves it in KO range after these are set up.
 
Karxrida landorus-t is mentioned twice in checks and counters, victini is a meh answer because eq is still common on mega metagross. if you're going to comment that eq is not a good option, it's certainly not the best option available (hammer arm is), but an ohko on heatran, doing ~60% to other metagross, a chance to ohko zard x after rocks, a clean 2hko on jirachi, and no speed drops certainly don't make it a bad option and as i said it's very common. victini can check hammer arm versions though.

you do need to add physically defensive gliscor (not the xy fast versions, but actually defensive versions) as a decent answer to non-ice punch versions bar meteor mash attack boosts. also, physically defensive mew is a counter, mega manectric is an ok check, resttalk gyarados with enough evs to avoid the 2hko from zen headbutt after rocks (248/104) is a solid check and very solid counter if it runs an even more physically defensive spread, suicune does ok against non-grass knot variants (with no rocks on the field, zen headbutt is a 4hko), and gastrodon beats non-grass knot variants. i suppose dugtrio is also worth mentioning because it can trap and 2hko with eq, though it completely loses to bullet punch variants but those aren't /that/ common.

mega sableye is not really a counter, it has a chance to be 2hkoed (albeit very small at 4.7%) after stealth rock damage and this means it loses with basically any amount of prior damage. mandibuzz has to run 252 defense to beat metagross with rocks on the field, which is typically not what it runs (it likes to run some sdef to handle landorus-i) so make sure you specify that. also mention that skarmory should run a 29 spe iv to underspeed mega metagross after 2 hammer arms, this lets it beat it _much_ more effectively.
 
Jukain said:
Karxrida landorus-t is mentioned twice in checks and counters, victini is a meh answer because eq is still common on mega metagross. if you're going to comment that eq is not a good option, it's certainly not the best option available (hammer arm is), but an ohko on heatran, doing ~60% to other metagross, a chance to ohko zard x after rocks, a clean 2hko on jirachi, and no speed drops certainly don't make it a bad option and as i said it's very common. victini can check hammer arm versions though.

you do need to add physically defensive gliscor (not the xy fast versions, but actually defensive versions) as a decent answer to non-ice punch versions bar meteor mash attack boosts. also, physically defensive mew is a counter, mega manectric is an ok check, resttalk gyarados with enough evs to avoid the 2hko from zen headbutt after rocks (248/104) is a solid check and very solid counter if it runs an even more physically defensive spread, suicune does ok against non-grass knot variants (with no rocks on the field, zen headbutt is a 4hko), and gastrodon beats non-grass knot variants. i suppose dugtrio is also worth mentioning because it can trap and 2hko with eq, though it completely loses to bullet punch variants but those aren't /that/ common.

mega sableye is not really a counter, it has a chance to be 2hkoed (albeit very small at 4.7%) after stealth rock damage and this means it loses with basically any amount of prior damage. mandibuzz has to run 252 defense to beat metagross with rocks on the field, which is typically not what it runs (it likes to run some sdef to handle landorus-i) so make sure you specify that. also mention that skarmory should run a 29 spe iv to underspeed mega metagross after 2 hammer arms, this lets it beat it _much_ more effectively.
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Goddammit I'm blind. I still think Victini deserves a mention since you never (or at least shouldn't) have Earthquake and Hammer Arm in the same set and Scarf Victini is still a consistent check/revenge killer since V-Create will still hurt.
 
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