OU Metagross

-Clone- the previous first sentence was mostly just a pointless, introductory, generation-shift outlining filler sentence. Saying that a Mega Pokemon is viable because it has a Mega Evolution is pretty obvious--that's why I tried to make the current first sentence explain a bit more about why Metagross is good, which is Tough Claws coupled with its great contact movepool. It doesn't matter for people to know that metagross was previously super sucky, all that maters in the overview is to say what's the deal now.
 
**Steel-types**: Steel-types such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and bulky Mega Scizor can give Mega Metagross trouble, as the former has access to Counter while the latter two can whittle it down. Bisharp revenge kills Mega Metagross with Sucker Punch after a little bit of prior damage. However, if Mega Metagross is carrying Hammer Arm, only bulky Mega Scizor can actually wall it, as Ferrothorn, offensive Mega Scizor, and Skarmory are 2HKOed by the move.
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Hey, I just wanted to say that the order of the sentences here is kinda strange. I think this would be better:
**Steel-types**: Steel-types such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and bulky Mega Scizor can give Mega Metagross trouble, as the former has access to Counter while the latter two can whittle it down. However, if Mega Metagross is carrying Hammer Arm, only bulky Mega Scizor can actually wall it, as Ferrothorn, offensive Mega Scizor, and Skarmory are 2HKOed by the move. Bisharp revenge kills Mega Metagross with Sucker Punch after a little bit of prior damage.
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How does Mega Gross underspeed Skarmory after Hammer Arm? Mega Gross needs to be at -2 just to outrun Skarm, meaning . How does that allow Mega Gross to outspeed Skarmory if it needs more than one Hammer Arm to underspeed it?
 
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Alfalfa said:
How does Mega Gross outspeed Skarmory after Hammer Arm? Mega Gross needs to be at -2 just to outrun Skarm, meaning . How does that allow Mega Gross to outspeed Skarmory if it needs more than one Hammer Arm to underspeed it?
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What are you talking about?

No seriously it never said that anywhere I'm not even trying to be funny with a ninja edit.
 
-Clone- said:
What are you talking about?

No seriously it never said that anywhere I'm not even trying to be funny with a ninja edit.
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"Hammer Arm 2HKOes Ferrothorn and offensive Mega Scizor while also beating Skarmory that lack Counter one-on-one, thanks to the Speed drop allowing Mega Metagross to hit Skarmory after the Roost."
 
Alfalfa said:
"Hammer Arm 2HKOes Ferrothorn and offensive Mega Scizor while also beating Skarmory that lack Counter one-on-one, thanks to the Speed drop allowing Mega Metagross to hit Skarmory after the Roost."
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Nowhere does it say Metagross outspeeds Skarmory so idk wtf you're going on about...
 
-Clone- said:
Nowhere does it say that it only takes one.
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It kinda is implied by the singular 'drop' though, i can see the confusion. If you change 'speed drop' to 'speed drops, it should be fine. (although this is nitpicky in the extreme indeed)
 
There's nothing actually wrong with it, so it's just super nitpick

Actual important thing:if you dont mega on the first turn and hammer arm, you can underspeed the second time (mega second turn obvsly). Vs a stall team with no other switchins, this might be worth a shot (you decide if this is worth mentioning), credit to gamer boy on that 1
 
tehy said:
There's nothing actually wrong with it, so it's just super nitpick

Actual important thing:if you dont mega on the first turn and hammer arm, you can underspeed the second time (mega second turn obvsly). Vs a stall team with no other switchins, this might be worth a shot (you decide if this is worth mentioning), credit to gamer boy on that 1
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If you could word that so it doesn't sound awkward for each place hammer arm v Skarm is mentioned (all out attacker in moves; C&Cs), I could put it in. That's actually pretty cool so I'm for giving it a mention, since like you said it mainly applies to stall where the speed isn't as important, tho it should be void of any potential confusion (which is why I'm hesitant to word it myself :$)
 
Well shux

Hows this

Against stall teams that rely on Skarmory to take on Metagross, consider Mega evolving next turn and using Hammer Arm, as this will let you underspeed and thus defeat Skarmory.

Goes in usage tips, first set (it could work on the rp set too, some stall teams you don't need to rp)

Jukain

Is this correct/worth including? I like it, since it lets you beat skarm way faster, bu
 
I think Cofagrigus should also be mentioned under bulky pokemon since it takes max 48.9% from Meteor Mash and removes Tough Claws, as well as having WoW and Haze to remove stat gains
edit: I've always thought Cresselia was irrelevant too, but anyway this has been GP'd so ignore this
 
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CyberWolf said:
I think Cofagrigus should also be mentioned under bulky pokemon since it takes max 48.9% from Meteor Mash and removes Tough Claws, as well as having WoW and Haze to remove stat gains
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Cofagrigus is not relevant at all in OU. It is a very niche Pokemon that only fits on select few teams (mostly Trick Room teams). If it was more relevant in OU, then adding it would be a possibility,
 
Seeing as this hasn't gone anywhere in a while I might as well post this.

I've seen quite a bit of hype for the SubPuP set on Metagross since it sets up on Ferrothorn, Skarmory w/o whirlwind, and other things, so I wanted to know if it was worth adding esp since this hasn't been uploaded yet

aim Jukain alexwolf
 
I don't like SubPuP. Metagross's STABs have terrible coverage, to the point where three attacking moves is a must, and PuP just doesn't cut it as a fighting move. Being able to take advantage of checks such as Alomomola, SD-less Mega Scizor, and Zapdos is sweet, but not worth it when it means losing immediate offensive presence against so many Pokemon. Plus, fuck Ferrothorn, you can already take advantage of it with just Sub and Hammer Arm, no need for PuP, if Ferro is the opponent's best check against Mega Metagross chances are that 3 attacks + Sub Mega Metagross can terrorize this team just fine. The only two Pokemon that have viable set with this move, Mega Lopunny and Victini, either have the moveslot for it or they actually beat common answers to them with said move (Heatran and Tyranitar for Victini), instead of more passive and niche stuff such as Alomomola and idk what else, Gourgeist?

SubPuP is OO at best.
 
I agree on Sub PuP; I would much rather just run 4 attacks or 3 attacks.

Also, I know this is last minute and we talked about this before, but I'd like to endorse a Grass Knot slash. It allows Mega Metagross to beat the likes of Mega/normal Slowbro, Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Mega Swampert (rain is really annoying and Mega Swampert likes to attempt a MEvo against Mega Metagross). This is useful because it limits the amount of Pokemon that can serve as counters to Mega Metagross even further, meaning it is much more effective at breaking down more defensively oriented builds. I don't really like the way the third slot is currently set up; I don't think that Ice Punch is very good because Meteor Mash already does so much to Landorus-T so you can just wear into range fairly easily, while Bullet Punch only has situational utility (though these situations come up often enough that it can be a lifesaver). Other people like Ice Punch though so I'm not entirely opposed to it being on the main set, but I think that Grass Knot should be slashed as well. You don't actually need -Def/SpD nature for it to do the damage that it needs to so don't worry about that.

Would also like to see an Adamant slash for that set as well. If you've ever used it or ran some calcs you'll notice that the power difference is enormous. Thunder Punch 2HKOes SpD normal Slowbro and fully defensive normal Slowbro after SR, for example. You gain an assured 2HKO on Mega Sableye, a significant bit more damage on Landorus-T, a 2HKO on standard fast Gliscor after SR, a 2HKO on offensive SD Mega Scizor after SR, a chance to OHKO fast Azumarill (standard) after SR, a decent chance to 2HKO Rotom-W without SR, and a general damage increase against just about everything. It's obviously only for teams that don't particularly struggle with the likes of Keldeo, but in cases where you can afford the drop in Speed, it is well worth running Adamant. This also lets you run spreads with a little bit of bulk. If you need to outspeed the 100s range then you can run 303 (188 EVs), which outspeeds Jolly Excadrill and with that Modest Lando/neutral-natured 100s. You can drop to 296 (160 EVs) if you just need to outspeed through Jolly normal Heracross/Kyurem-B. Beyond that you can run 279 (92 EVs), which is enough to outrun Timid Heatran along with Adamant Excadrill/Jolly MHera. More bulk is really nice for Mega Metagross because it is actually a really bulky Pokemon, so with investment it can take some serious pounding from resisted hits and tank some pretty strong hits. The bulkiest spread of the ones I listed (192 HP EVs) takes ~half from Mega Lopunny HJK and ~half from CB Azumarill Waterfall, for instance. Just some stuff to consider/mention.
 
^will do the above. Any preference for the order of ice punch, BP, GK? Personally I'd go with BP / GK / Ice Punch, because I've been using BP lately and it is really clutch in situations where you can't afford to miss or need to revenge kill a boosted / faster mon. I do admit that losing out on bulky waters / grounds | dragons can be annoying tho, so I don't mind if GK Goes before BP.
 
Not sure if my opinion counts for anything but I really like Bullet Punch, it helps in a bunch of situations, lets you finish Lando-T at 20%, lets you avoid having to risk speed ties with weakened Latis, Gengar, and Diancie, lets you deal with MGarde if you haven't Mega'd yet+it predicts the Metagross switchin and Focus Blasts (BP cleanly OHKOs MGarde after SR), hits Beedrill before it U-Turns, all that kind of stuff. You don't actually miss GK/Ice Punch too much since you usually teambuild around MMeta to handle Water/Ground/Dragon types with something else, and BP helps MMeta beat what it's actually supposed to be able to handle. Most of the time, all you really need is STABs+Hammer Arm/EQ anyway, you don't really need to dedicate the 4th slot to coverage too much. BP/GK/Ice Punch is definitely how I'd slash these.

edit : proof that bullet punch wins games http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198565010
 
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"Zen Headbutt is necessary to take on the Fighting- and Poison-types that Mega Metagross checks, while also scoring a crucial 2HKO against Rotom-W, which would otherwise wall Mega Metagross." ZH cannot 2HKO Rotom-w without stealth rock damage, so in this sentence it should say "...scoring a crucial 2HKO on Rotom-w after stealth rock damage."
 
I think you should refer to the Pokemon as Metagross throughout the analysis, not Mega Metagross (other than when mentioning things specific to the Mega, like having 110 Speed).

If you agree but feel too lazy to change it, I will personally do it via SCMS lol.
 
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