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Mienshao
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
You're trying to treat Mienshao like it's an end-all, be-all sweeper. Really, he's like a Physical Gengar and should be played as such. He has two good things going for him (speed and hjk), a few resists to switch in on, the exact movepool he needs to succeed, and a couple niche options to beat its primary counters. He is not there to dismantle a team with flawless coverage. He's there to kick a hole in your Skarmory.
Mienshao doesn't have coverage issues? Bullshit. Also, SD Infernape's coverage of Fighting + Fire + Rock (and getting STAB on both Fighting and Fire) is clearly better than whatever garbage Mienshao has.
Lucario does suffer from a weakness from Mach Punch, but remember that ExtremeSpeed has +2 priority this generation, so if the thing using Mach Punch is not named Conkeldurr, it's going down. And no sane person is going to keep a Lucario in against Conkeldurr.
And I clearly don't give a holy living fuck about Regenerator.
I didn't say 90% alone was unreliable. But 90% and getting crash damage for missing, along with that crash damage being triggered if the opponent uses Protect, is most certainly unreliable.
That's just my opinion. I'm personally never going to use a move that can have damage dealt to you just because your opponent used Protect.
You do have a point that Infernape's versatility and Speed and the horrid side effect of Mienshao's signature move makes Infernape appealing, but still there's no denying that being able to recover off LO recoils is a huge boon. Also, the HJK behind the Attack from Mienshao is really good - it has no problems scoring a 2HKO on Skarmory after SR damage.
Seriously, Mienshao has a sufficient movepool to get stuff done. HJK + Stone Edge is enough power as it is, and it has Grass Knot, HP Ice, and very usable Special Attack stat to OHKO / 2HKO the likes of Gliscor, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Tangrowth, Jellicent with moderate investment in Special Atk (I went with 96 Atk EVs). It can set up a Substitute to ease predictions, and it can easily recover its health back with Regenerator. It can even function as a Baton Passer, passing SDs / Substitute.
I guess it's natural to compare Infernape and Mienshao, since they are both common scouters. I believe they each have enough distinctions to set themselves apart from one another - neither one overshadows the other.
Seriously, Mienshao has a sufficient movepool to get stuff done. HJK + Stone Edge is enough power as it is, and it has Grass Knot, HP Ice, and very usable Special Attack stat to OHKO / 2HKO the likes of Gliscor, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Tangrowth, Jellicent with moderate investment in Special Atk (I went with 96 Atk EVs). It can set up a Substitute to ease predictions, and it can easily recover its health back with Regenerator. It can even function as a Baton Passer, passing SDs / Substitute.
I guess it's natural to compare Infernape and Mienshao, since they are both common scouters. I believe they each have enough distinctions to set themselves apart from one another - neither one overshadows the other.
So, should I use Naive or Jolly: Hidden Power Ice or Stone Edge?
After a fuck load of testing I can actually say SD Mienshao is really good. Sure, o.k I could use Infernape but I really like Mienshaos ability to grab a Swords Dance, lure out and get a KO on Skarm (you would be surprised at how many ppl switch Skarm in on Mienshao), and then Batom Pass out to something like Landorus or Dragonite, and sweep away. Works really well if you opponent sends in Jellicent as I can Swords Dance again after WoW hits (or just cripple Jellicent with a +2 SE) and bring in a final sweeper for free. Its tricky to make work but when it does its exceptionally hard to stop!
Just saying remember, regen helps with any HJK mishaps. Not only that, but she (I call her Priestess) often uses fake out to scout for swaps, protects, ghosts, etc. Like, when I send her out first, I almost always use fake out, uturn, or a coverage move to predict. Even better she can uturn to Sizzor. And the fact that she lures ghosts makes her an amazing zoroark partner (who is amazing in OU)
Going back to this but replacing Sub with Swords Dance, has anyone used this set viably (logs to show)? I really like the idea of SD pass Mienshao. The boost from Swords Dance and Acrobatics remedies the power loss of Life Orb and Regenerator makes up for the lack of reliable recovery with Leftovers. Having unresisted in OU coverage with 110+ base power moves is awesome. What I love about this set is that all we did was lose the coverage of U-turn for the utility to use a +2 boost to hit hard or pass it to a team mate to sweep like a made man :o
The only downside is having to decide when do you want to use Acrobatics and the variation of its damage. Let's take the most common ghost switch-in to Mienshao, Jellicent, who would otherwise resist all of Mieshao's moves.
Acrobatics=27%-32%
+2 Acrobatics=54%-64%
Flight Gem Acrobatics=41%-48%
The monster +2 Flight Gem Acrobatics: 82%-96% !!!
On paper this looks amazing and it looks like it could be the main utility poke for a team, since it would allow a sweeper to get an extra coverage move (i.e. Dragonite Extremespeed instead of DD) but I'm unable to battle with PO right now so if anyone has used it with either an SD or a sub send me a link of the log >_>
imo, Naive HP Ice. Mostly to hekp with land bro and gliscor. Not only this but you're still gonna hit hard if you split EV's and take slightly less recoil from HJK. Maybe maybe not but it's helpful imo
How weird would it be if I mentioned that I met a player days ago with a Mienshao similar to the one mentioned a few posts above me? The set itself is a bit funny, but straightforward since I can decipher what it's doing (and it used all its moves in one sitting). If memory serves:
Mienshao @ Life Orb
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly
Regenerator:
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Hi Jump Kick
-Baton Pass
Mienshao is essentially a Swords Dance sweeper-turned SubPasser, I guess. iirc, It could simply switch out of its counters with Baton Pass, escaping with +2 and a possible Substitute in its hands (Sub to block obvious status?).
Mienshao @ Life Orb
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly
Regenerator:
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Hi Jump Kick
-Baton Pass
Mienshao is essentially a Swords Dance sweeper-turned SubPasser, I guess. iirc, It could simply switch out of its counters with Baton Pass, escaping with +2 and a possible Substitute in its hands (Sub to block obvious status?).
Ah, I love using Sub-Pass Mienshao! People always think you're going to U-Turn or Hi-Jump Kick and thus they have to react, so you can just get a Substitute up and go from there. Regenerator even heals off the HP from your Substitutes! :D But what would the best receivers be for this? Dragon Dance Tyranitar to come in on both Ghost and Flying types?
Generally, Mienshao doesn't require a super effective hit to be taken out, so it really doesn't need to much defensive synergy to pass Substitutes to. It would be ideal, however, to pass Substitutes to a recipient that can take on Ghost-type Pokemon and common users of priority.
So, the best moveset for a LO version is:
1. Hi Jump Kick
2. HP ice
3. U-Turn
4. Fake Out
This is the best moveset for him?
1. Hi Jump Kick
2. HP ice
3. U-Turn
4. Fake Out
This is the best moveset for him?
Yeah, that's what i meant. Generally people would bring in Ghost, Psychic and Flying types to soak up Hi Jump Kicks, so something that could offensively deal with all of them would be nice. I've been testing it out and so far it's been going pretty well.
And I'd go for Grass Knot over Fake Out, it also hits Hippowdon!
Interesting set, it certainly has the surprise factor, I might try it out!