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Mienshao

Something that's been bugging me: Scarf Mienshao easily outspeeds all Starmie barring ScarfMie, and hits for SE damage with U-turn. However, i can't for the life of me think of a scenario where Starmie would take the U-turn.

If Starmie kills, then i bring in ScarfShao, then it's pretty obvious to my opponent i outspeed with U-turn, or else i wouldn't switch Mienshao in to Starmie.

If i've just killed something, and Starmie comes in to replace it, then i've likely just used HJK, which means i can't U-turn.

So is there any situation where ScarfShao would be in a position to hit Starmie with U-Turn, while the opponent doesn't switch? I guess this bugs me because i'm fed up of getting raped by Starmies.
 
Treadshot A1 said:
Something that's been bugging me: Scarf Mienshao easily outspeeds all Starmie barring ScarfMie, and hits for SE damage with U-turn. However, i can't for the life of me think of a scenario where Starmie would take the U-turn.

If Starmie kills, then i bring in ScarfShao, then it's pretty obvious to my opponent i outspeed with U-turn, or else i wouldn't switch Mienshao in to Starmie.

If i've just killed something, and Starmie comes in to replace it, then i've likely just used HJK, which means i can't U-turn.

So is there any situation where ScarfShao would be in a position to hit Starmie with U-Turn, while the opponent doesn't switch? I guess this bugs me because i'm fed up of getting raped by Starmies.
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Well you can't force that. But remember U-turn isn't a move to kill things is a move that helps keeping offensive pressure on your side.
1-If you have a scarfshao against starmie and she switches out of the U-turn great for you, you have sucessfully scout and can deal accordly.
2-On the other hand, starmie stays in get killed and you need to replace a poke on the field first, upper hand to your opponent.
Also considering that we usually have SR and 2 layers of spikes; starmie would die to neutral hits by other members of your team, priority or will just have to eventually recover, getting hit by u-turn. Just chill out.
 
black_cotton said:
Well you can't force that. But remember U-turn isn't a move to kill things is a move that helps keeping offensive pressure on your side.
1-If you have a scarfshao against starmie and she switches out of the U-turn great for you, you have sucessfully scout and can deal accordly.
2-On the other hand, starmie stays in get killed and you need to replace a poke on the field first, upper hand to your opponent.
Also considering that we usually have SR and 2 layers of spikes; starmie would die to neutral hits by other members of your team, priority or will just have to eventually recover, getting hit by u-turn. Just chill out.
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It's an "upper hand" to your opponent to get their fast revenger/sweeper killed?
 
Virizion said:
It's an "upper hand" to your opponent to get their fast revenger/sweeper killed?
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Starmie doesn't need to be the fast revenger sweeper, it wasn't in the hipothetical example made by me neither by treadshot. Finally if the opponent let starmie die must be a reason for it, like having something even faster, a scarf poke, a poke that even though slower can set up easier and sweep etc.

Also i was talking about maintaning offensive pressure when i said "upper hand", if i need to send something out first after I kill something with u-turn my opponent can deal better with it.
 
Black cotton's right about killing Starmie being bad in the sense that I have to send out something to replace Mienshao, before Starmie is replaced, so my opponent can pick an appropriate counter to my poke, but at the same time that's a risk I'm willing to take if it means getting rid of Starmie (which is one my team's biggest threats), plus Mienshao heals 33% by U-turning out.

I guess either way I would get the upper hand, though, which I hadn't really thought of (or hadn't looked at it that way before). If I kill Starmie, I go one Pokemon up, and heal Mienshao. If Starmie switches, then I successfully scout, and Starmie knows it has to be much more careful now about when it switches in.

Thanks guys, might try Mienshao next time.
 
Mienshao Set

Posted this in the Analysis Mienshao thread, but it looks like this one is the more active thread.

I was thinking about this Mienshao set... Thoughts?

Mienshao
Jolly (252 speed, 252 atk, 4 HP)
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Focus Sash

Fake Out
U-Turn
Drain Punch
Reversal

You get the standard hit-and-run free damage from Fake Out w/ the solid U-Turn combo. Drain Punch is there to allow your Focus Sash to do its job. Come in, take SR damage, and hopefully that's all (ie no Spikes or Toxic Spikes), then Drain Punch (if you're faster and they don't carry priority) to recover the lost damage and get back to full health. After your Drain Punch, they theoretically hit you and bring you down to your Sash (make Mienshao especially frail to ensure this happens). Then hit 'em with a base power 200 + STAB Reversal, which will undoubtedly hurt.

Also, if your Sash is activated earlier than planned (unexpected Choice Scarf-er or whatever else), Mienshao can switch out , switch in to slower Pokemon later, take SR damage thanks to Regenerator, and still deliver a somewhat powerful Reversal.

Obviously, ghosts are a problem as they are for a lot of fighters. Another huge problem is Sandstorm/Hail. Status effects also do not bode well. Finally, as mentioned above, if they're faster and/or carry priority you're screwed.
 
Reversal just isn't a good move to rely on. Sandstorm and priority are waaaay too common, not to mention status, entry hazards, naturally faster opponents, and Ghost-types.
 
It would technically work, since drain punch will get you back up to 100% and let your sash activate, but unless you're running it on a rain or sun team, Sandstorm is too common to use reversal with anyone but Lucario. Also, Mienshao isn't fast enough, and has no reliable way to deal with ghosts/flyers, and gets destroyed by priority.
 
NijaSkills said:
It would technically work, since drain punch will get you back up to 100% and let your sash activate, but unless you're running it on a rain or sun team, Sandstorm is too common to use reversal with anyone but Lucario. Also, Mienshao isn't fast enough, and has no reliable way to deal with ghosts/flyers, and gets destroyed by priority.
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No it won't, Focus Sash fails once your HP falls below %100. What you are thinking is Sturdy.
 
Plopper said:
No it won't, Focus Sash fails once your HP falls below %100. What you are thinking is Sturdy.
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Actually, if your focus sash has not been used, the mon drops below 100%, then is raised back through any mean (Regenerator, wish, Drain Punch), then it will work. However, it will only work once, for the Focus sash item is used Once it saves you. Sturdy, however, does in fact keep working =)
 
Mr.L said:
Actually, if your focus sash has not been used, the mon drops below 100%, then is raised back through any mean (Regenerator, wish, Drain Punch), then it will work. However, it will only work once, for the Focus sash item is used Once it saves you. Sturdy, however, does in fact keep working =)
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Really? I remember it failed once you fell below %100 in Gen 4.
 
If the holder has max HP, Focus Sash guarantees they survive any attack with 1 HP. If the holder is not at full health, the item will not activate. If the holder takes damage, but does not activate Focus Sash, and then recovers off this damage to return to 100% HP, Focus Sash can still activate.

(take right from Smogon)
 
And now to shamelessly bump this...

Me First should at the very least be considered, as it can decimate many checks/counters.
 
Me first only works if the user is faster. Slower checks would be priority users or Psychics mostly, if I´m not forgetting something. Barring Fighting priority, those checks all resist the attacks they would launch at Mienshao.

I don´t think it would be that helpful. Maybe if it could kill Gliscor with its own Acrobat, but since Shao should always hold an item, that´s mute too.

More Reasons:
- Can´t hit on the switch
- Can´t hit when the opponent sets up
- Possibly can´t even copy priority moves(I'm not totally sure here, tough it's probably true)
- Unless scarfed you won´t hit ghosts(Gengar is faster, Chandelure is often scarfed). Even with scarf, if you´re somehow locked in Me first, no one will switch in their ghosts(or just use a non-Ghost-move. Gengar Focus Blasts and Chandy uses Fire Blast and even would get boosted by it)
 
Poppycock said:
snatch is legit on chansey, me first works with scarf, revenge dragons stuck in outrage and such
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Its situational and unless your prediction skills are through the roof this isn't exactly the best option...

Me First sucks though since now you are stuck in Outrage...
 
hardly, snatch prevents you from losing most cm wars and can completely shut down some forms of bulky boosting.

me first is a little gimmicky, and yeah i wouldn't use it on mienshao.

mienshao's best set imo is just the simple faketurn set with LO, regenerator is too good. i do like the use of taunt over hp ice occasionally.
 
Poppycock said:
hardly, snatch prevents you from losing most cm wars and can completely shut down some forms of bulky boosting.

me first is a little gimmicky, and yeah i wouldn't use it on mienshao.

mienshao's best set imo is just the simple faketurn set with LO, regenerator is too good. i do like the use of taunt over hp ice occasionally.
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I prefer to use Fake Out/HJK/U-Turn/HP Ice. EV is max atack, speed and 4 hp using a naive nature so I dont lower special attack. I have tried using a different set, but I just can't. This has saved me so many times. Even in OU, this thing rapes almost everything. But the only fear it really has is ghost, protect, priority, and something faster because of how frail she is. And actually, I have found Zoroak to be an amazing partner. They almost always swap in a ghost, and get hit by a Night Daze. Not only this, but they make a pretty decent uturn core. However, sadly both are fairly frail and combined, fragility, is their main weakness because aside from flying and fighting, they cover eachothers weaknesses extraordinarily.
(PS, I like confusing people with uturning into mienshao with zora lol.
I just flat out love this girl. Breaks UU into so many little pieces.
 
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