arcanine and entei do get flame charge
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
Yeah but, come on. I mean, how relevant is that, really? when you have to use two turns to boost two stats by 1 stage each, that's not exactly saying much.
Last edited:
primal groudon, winning the game for me alone
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248153266
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248153266
This is clearly a low ladder battle (mid 1150s) and your opponent has a pretty bad team (seriously, Cresselia?). Primal Groudon probably would've lost to Ferrothorn as you have no reliable recover (unless Rest counts), and Precipice Blades doesn't do that much. All it shows is that you can beat low-ladder scrubs with Primal Groudon. So what? Even if I support Primal Groudon, that replay justifies nothing.
I would support Pdon to A+, but its irrelevant anyways. This weekend we will joint-effort fix the viability rankings.
Believe me, I've seen how amazing support don and boosting don are in this metagame, but there are enough things it can't get past that it makes me worry. Double-boosting sets need two turns, and they won't get it against any smart player. If they don't use two turns, they are either too slow or not powerful enough to get key KOs. Don't even get me started on blades' accuracy. Support sets are wonderful for bulky offense, but tend to be worn down easily without wish support, and without roar can get set up on easily. It's lack of speed makes it a big momentum killer at times as well. It's not a bad mon, in fact its a great mon, but I don't see it with Mew.
Arceus-N to A. Its really good, but lets not get started on how prepared for it is. Pdon is on a lot of offensive teams and checks it, while Gengar can put it to sleep. With Mew running around everywhere burning things, that provides another obstacle. And while it can set up, it will cost it a lot of HP in many cases - If its not a massive wall running toxic, its something that hits like a truck. Archeops hard checks it, as does many bulky/good typing mons in general. Sweeping with life orb is also a huge guessing game - There are a lot of aerilate lucarios, which cause a 50/50 with it mega evolving, Pinsirite Terrakion, anything that could randomly change type. It taking damage every time it attacks is actually a huge drawback in this metagame, whereas in ubers, few mons have the ability to recover off the damage. Manectite mons in general check it almost every time - How in the world can you put something that is checked by basically anything that uses a certain megastone in the same rank as Gengar, Blissey, and Thundurus? Honestly, Lucario is just better - Better coverage, secondary stabs, type change makes setting up moderately easy, doesn't get worn down with life orb, doesn't fear toxic, doesn't need to worry about as many immunities - Really, while on paper it pales, in practice, Lucario has played much better than Arceus in my experience. If you want one bulky, just run zygarde, which can boost its defense with coil and hits a great speed tier of 115 with pinsirite, and can also run dragon dance.
Arceus-N has perks just like each of the others do, but it is no better than the other -atespeeders, and it is possibly worse with how easily it is worn down, the immunities it has to deal with, and the fact it doesn't have any immunities / type changes of its own to help it set up. How you claim it is the best speeder in the tier is beyond me - Life Orb has substantial drawbacks and is STILL weaker than Lucario:
252 Atk Aerilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
And that slightly weaker espeed can really mean something, considering one isn't guaranteed to OHKO 100/100 uninvested at +2. They sit right in the middle of a largely packed bulk zone in this tier, and the extra strength can mean the difference. Lucario sets up on chansey all day, while Arceus can't afford to take a toxic.
Honestly, I would support lucario and zygarde to A+ and Arceus-N to A.
Manaphy to S is an interesting proposition, but I don't agree with it. Teams are VERY prepared for it by default, many carrying pdon or another red orb user. Manaphy also has a very hard time setting up against the metagame's preferred mons, and is also outsped if it doesn't get in early. 140 is nothing to laugh at, but most teams either run a scarfer or something faster, meaning it would have to set up early. The extreme bulk in this tier with any team lacking 2 speeders means that after only one tail glow, it can fail to net key OHKOs on bulky threats, and 100/100 bulk only takes it so far when its being hit with attacks other than priority. That being said, I do think it is S-rank material, although as of now we will have to wait and see what the consensus is when we do the viability rankings.
Believe me, I've seen how amazing support don and boosting don are in this metagame, but there are enough things it can't get past that it makes me worry. Double-boosting sets need two turns, and they won't get it against any smart player. If they don't use two turns, they are either too slow or not powerful enough to get key KOs. Don't even get me started on blades' accuracy. Support sets are wonderful for bulky offense, but tend to be worn down easily without wish support, and without roar can get set up on easily. It's lack of speed makes it a big momentum killer at times as well. It's not a bad mon, in fact its a great mon, but I don't see it with Mew.
Arceus-N to A. Its really good, but lets not get started on how prepared for it is. Pdon is on a lot of offensive teams and checks it, while Gengar can put it to sleep. With Mew running around everywhere burning things, that provides another obstacle. And while it can set up, it will cost it a lot of HP in many cases - If its not a massive wall running toxic, its something that hits like a truck. Archeops hard checks it, as does many bulky/good typing mons in general. Sweeping with life orb is also a huge guessing game - There are a lot of aerilate lucarios, which cause a 50/50 with it mega evolving, Pinsirite Terrakion, anything that could randomly change type. It taking damage every time it attacks is actually a huge drawback in this metagame, whereas in ubers, few mons have the ability to recover off the damage. Manectite mons in general check it almost every time - How in the world can you put something that is checked by basically anything that uses a certain megastone in the same rank as Gengar, Blissey, and Thundurus? Honestly, Lucario is just better - Better coverage, secondary stabs, type change makes setting up moderately easy, doesn't get worn down with life orb, doesn't fear toxic, doesn't need to worry about as many immunities - Really, while on paper it pales, in practice, Lucario has played much better than Arceus in my experience. If you want one bulky, just run zygarde, which can boost its defense with coil and hits a great speed tier of 115 with pinsirite, and can also run dragon dance.
Arceus-N has perks just like each of the others do, but it is no better than the other -atespeeders, and it is possibly worse with how easily it is worn down, the immunities it has to deal with, and the fact it doesn't have any immunities / type changes of its own to help it set up. How you claim it is the best speeder in the tier is beyond me - Life Orb has substantial drawbacks and is STILL weaker than Lucario:
252 Atk Aerilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
And that slightly weaker espeed can really mean something, considering one isn't guaranteed to OHKO 100/100 uninvested at +2. They sit right in the middle of a largely packed bulk zone in this tier, and the extra strength can mean the difference. Lucario sets up on chansey all day, while Arceus can't afford to take a toxic.
Honestly, I would support lucario and zygarde to A+ and Arceus-N to A.
Manaphy to S is an interesting proposition, but I don't agree with it. Teams are VERY prepared for it by default, many carrying pdon or another red orb user. Manaphy also has a very hard time setting up against the metagame's preferred mons, and is also outsped if it doesn't get in early. 140 is nothing to laugh at, but most teams either run a scarfer or something faster, meaning it would have to set up early. The extreme bulk in this tier with any team lacking 2 speeders means that after only one tail glow, it can fail to net key OHKOs on bulky threats, and 100/100 bulk only takes it so far when its being hit with attacks other than priority. That being said, I do think it is S-rank material, although as of now we will have to wait and see what the consensus is when we do the viability rankings.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-247949072 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-246642043 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-247157163
The Upsides of Primal-Groudon: Due to its great typing, ability, and stat distribution, it is no wonder that Primal-Groudon is being frequently used on more and more teams. Bulkier sets can wall things like Entei, Zygarde, Weavile, Victini and lots of other pokes i didn't name. There are few mons in the game that can kill the bulky set while unboosted, and they don't like switching in (Excadrill, Landorus-T mainly). Thanks to Desolute land, its fire stab(s) deal tons of damage, like Lava Plume, even uninvested. For offensive and dual dance (Rock Polish + Swords Dance) sets, its stabs cover a ton of mons and ohko lots of things, thanks to its massive 180 attack stat. With 1 Rock Polish up, this set can destroy lots of offensive teams that aren't prepared, and with Swords Dance, it turns it into a wallbreaker capable of sweeping almost any team.
The Downsides of Primal Groudon: The main thing from keeping Primal Groudon from being on every team is that it lacks recovery. Teams that run bulky offense, which is a lot of teams, love mons with recovery that don't get widdled easily. Primal-Groudon doesn't fit this role well, unless you run resttalk or wish pass. Its speed hinders it from being a sweeper with Swords Dance 3 attacks. One mon I've been seeing a lot on the ladder is Blue Orb skarm. It switches into both of pdons stabs being immune, and is hard to widdle, and at the same time, can defog away any rocks Primal-Don sets
up. The last issue is that you can't have another Red Orb user. Some of mons like Hippowdon and Victini love to run Red Orbor Pidgeotite, but they can't with Primal-Don.
I think that Primal-Groudon should be S rank. It has the highest Physical and Special attack of any ground type, while being one of the tankiest mons in the tier.
The Upsides of Primal-Groudon: Due to its great typing, ability, and stat distribution, it is no wonder that Primal-Groudon is being frequently used on more and more teams. Bulkier sets can wall things like Entei, Zygarde, Weavile, Victini and lots of other pokes i didn't name. There are few mons in the game that can kill the bulky set while unboosted, and they don't like switching in (Excadrill, Landorus-T mainly). Thanks to Desolute land, its fire stab(s) deal tons of damage, like Lava Plume, even uninvested. For offensive and dual dance (Rock Polish + Swords Dance) sets, its stabs cover a ton of mons and ohko lots of things, thanks to its massive 180 attack stat. With 1 Rock Polish up, this set can destroy lots of offensive teams that aren't prepared, and with Swords Dance, it turns it into a wallbreaker capable of sweeping almost any team.
The Downsides of Primal Groudon: The main thing from keeping Primal Groudon from being on every team is that it lacks recovery. Teams that run bulky offense, which is a lot of teams, love mons with recovery that don't get widdled easily. Primal-Groudon doesn't fit this role well, unless you run resttalk or wish pass. Its speed hinders it from being a sweeper with Swords Dance 3 attacks. One mon I've been seeing a lot on the ladder is Blue Orb skarm. It switches into both of pdons stabs being immune, and is hard to widdle, and at the same time, can defog away any rocks Primal-Don sets
up. The last issue is that you can't have another Red Orb user. Some of mons like Hippowdon and Victini love to run Red Orb
I think that Primal-Groudon should be S rank. It has the highest Physical and Special attack of any ground type, while being one of the tankiest mons in the tier.
While not necessary, custom number/conditional formatting* is much simpler to apply than manually colouring in each cell!
* Custom number formatting lets you add signs and units but only supports colours for <0 and >0 but that's all you needed there.
Yeah, I got that part. I already had it custom-formatted; I just manually shaded the cells and added the plus and plus-minus signs.
Something else that holds manaphy back, imo, is its weakness to electric types. Manectite raikou outspeeds and ohkos it after SR damage, and has a 25% chance to do so w/ no prior damage. Frankly, various raikou sets are all over the place, and they really make manaphy's life difficult. However, manaphy is basically guaranteed to land a kill, even if that means it dies itself. I would like to point out though, that blissey walls it to the moon and back. I faced one the other day, and as I tail glowed, it used CM, then I tail glowed again, and it did the same. I didn't try running calcs, because I guess I assumed it should be enough, however, scald only did about 25%. Honestly, while it is incredibly effective against offensive teams, once anything faster is gone, it's balance-breaking power is not as insane as in OU. That's not to say it doesn't put in work though; I'd say A+ fits it best.
Just a reminder that Refresh + SD is a very viable set, so Arceus can afford to take a Toxic from Chansey and set-up all over it. Recover + SD is another one that is also very good, although I haven't used it myself. Hell you could probably get away with Substitute, although that's a bit less viable imho. I also don't see how Arceus is the easiest to "wear down" - if anything that title goes to Entei due to SR weakness, followed by Zygarde who has no reliable recovery (not even Lefties). Arceus is probably the hardest to wear down lmao. The other ESPeeders are too frail to be worn down - they just die. Lucario is frail and weak to other Espeeders, not to mention anything faster than it that resists its Espeed of choice beats it (an example is Absolite and Diancite Heatran post-mega - they can take an ESpeed and kill it) which isn't that hard to outpace due to the fact that it's not very fast to begin with and can only get at most a +20 speed boost (thus locking it at 110 max, which is pretty slow in MnM). Or it just get revenged killed by another Espeeder - after all, it is the slowest viable ESpeeder, so anything running Pinsirite, Salamencite, or even Glalite can just Espeed it. It probably won't live, especially if it's taken residual damage, due to its fraility.
Obviously it has its flaws - common things do check it, such as the aforementioned Gengar and Archeops - and its basically the weakest viable espeeder. However, Arceus-N is a very solid cleaner / potential revenge killer due to its amazing speed and fantastic bulk, plus despite being the weakest viable espeeder it still hits pretty hard, especially at +2. Another unmentioned perk, while very minimal, is the fact that you can't instantly tell its E-Killer. This is less useful here, since Arceus isn't as common (it should be though - some of the other Arceus forms are damn good), but it is still something mentionable. I definitely don't think it's the "worst espeeder". That being said, A rank is completely fine with me, although I still think it's A+.
Also LO isn't even the best item on Arceus-N - Silk Scarf, Lum, and even Lefties are much better imho.
Obviously it has its flaws - common things do check it, such as the aforementioned Gengar and Archeops - and its basically the weakest viable espeeder. However, Arceus-N is a very solid cleaner / potential revenge killer due to its amazing speed and fantastic bulk, plus despite being the weakest viable espeeder it still hits pretty hard, especially at +2. Another unmentioned perk, while very minimal, is the fact that you can't instantly tell its E-Killer. This is less useful here, since Arceus isn't as common (it should be though - some of the other Arceus forms are damn good), but it is still something mentionable. I definitely don't think it's the "worst espeeder". That being said, A rank is completely fine with me, although I still think it's A+.
Also LO isn't even the best item on Arceus-N - Silk Scarf, Lum, and even Lefties are much better imho.
Has anyone considered aggronite salamence? I think its currently the best ddance sweeper in mix and mega. I have been using this set to some success.
Salamence@Aggronite
ability: intimidate
252 attk, 4 sdef, 252 Spe jolly
roost
outrage
Earthquake
dragon dance
I have been wondering if it should be a more bulky spread? Please inform me what you think
Salamence@Aggronite
ability: intimidate
252 attk, 4 sdef, 252 Spe jolly
roost
outrage
Earthquake
dragon dance
I have been wondering if it should be a more bulky spread? Please inform me what you think
Hate to break it to you, but metagrossite is for really hard hitters, as it only gives a +10 boost to base attack. 328 attack when adamant is horrible, and it only ohko luc with its stab. I suggest to replace it with aerodactylite or charizard
Pinsirite Crobat is pretty good from my experience, despite its relatively low base 120 attack, double edge + aerilate makes it hit pretty damn hard. With this it outspeeds the majority of the meta with base 150 speed and has a good typing to check a few common threats and decent enough bulk to support it. There's not much point in cross poison though, because a resisted double edge hits harder lol- something like haze or super fang is good instead of it.
EDIT: Actually Aerodactylite should be a straight upgrade to this because tough claws is an equal boost and boosts u-turn too, so go for that.
EDIT: Actually Aerodactylite should be a straight upgrade to this because tough claws is an equal boost and boosts u-turn too, so go for that.
Last edited:
Fair enough, i tried using aerodactylite too. Char x-ite would work as well, but going from poison to dragon makes him too vulnerable to pixelaters.
Look, here's the metagrossite version getting 3 sweet revenge kills:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248383498
I wouldnt say it's the hardest to wear down, that would be Lucario, imo. It takes the least from SR and can't be toxic poisoned pre-mega, though post mega it lacks both these traits, w/ Pinsirite. But arceus does have refresh, so it's definitely not just super easy to wear down. I honestly think Lucario is the best candidate for an Ekiller set, however, arceus does have its perks
I really appreciate how fast it's going, but can I ask for that we atleast consider banning ate + espeed as a whole. I enjoy playing the game right now but it I find offence to be a game of "who can set up the fastest and win with extreme speed" and I have yet to see a legit lacking atleast one, often two espeeders
Then you haven't seen stall in this meta(yes, M&M stall is viable.)
I'd willing to throw my hat innthe ring that me, Adrian, Goomy and Spartan made the best stall team as of now :p But feel free to prove me otherwise. It's viable, but Manaphy, Victini and -Ate demand three different teamspots just to check, which is exhausting
You completely skipped over my stallz ;;
I got to #1 with stall, its definitely viable, its just kind of unreliable because offense can bring random stuff that screws it over with the sheer variety of sets mons can run.
I'd like to nominate Pinsirite Heliolisk for B- or C+ ranking. Pinsirite gives it a nice speed boost, and small defensive and SpA boosts. Electric/Flying type is great, and STAB hyper voice gives it a strong flying STAB that Zapdos and Thundurus lack. It's also great for taking down Mewtwonite-X and Lopunnite users. Dry skin also lets it switch in safely on predicted Water attacks.
Sup, guiz! Probably don't recognize me. But im nmone.....had to created another acc because i forgot my PW :_:
But anyways, that didn't stop me from battling and thriving for something new. Trying different megastones on different mons. Looking for something that can be used both as partner and pivot for my dear pidgeotiliteTornT And complete my VoltTurn, Id like raikou really. nd want something different from zapy and Thundy. and ofc i think i found a poke that can hopefully gain some usage. After all, this lil fella is craving for attetion. And synergy well with TornT imo.
Rotom-Wash @ Manectite
Ability: Levitate-----》Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Pain Split
Stats: 50/65/127/135/127/116
Rotom has two purposes (for me at least), Pivot & spread burns (i use WoW). Ive had lots of fun and close battles, this guy saved me tons. First let me expand on its purpose. imo, when using RW, you have to pay close attention to your opponent's team. And choose a mon rotom can both safely come in on and mega evolve on or can force out and Mevo and start grabbing momentum w/ VSwitch. Because rotom's regular stats are...well...let's just say VERY underwhelming and will be worn down ALOT faster than it will when in Mevo form.But ofc it still retain its title as the best(imo)electric type to switch into Ground types/moves zapy and Thundy retain that title, but rotom is at least third.....right?? But anyways, once evolved i recommend abusing the hell out of Intimidate. Especially against mons that can't boost. I've been really testing this set, and I'll show clacs, it can even be used as a soft/Hard check to opposing -ates Speeders for offensive teams or check other physical attackers(sometimes even some that might catch you offguard.......like Diancie Archeops who hits hard as hell btw). I'm talking about prominent threats, such as dam near all variants of Entei(tho SF isn't appreciated) and Arcanine, Laughs at Lucario pinsirite/glalilite(even if they SD the turn you switch) Altarinite is a different story, it can go either way just know that :p, zygarde gets burn all the time(especially coil sets lacking Resttalk) and outspeeds subCoil set. It actually hardcounter WeavG(but that's not saying nothing, as literally all bulky water types laugh at GlaliliteWeav, just wanted to bold :)), if running toxic, it can lure in Phon and poison it(since it's hardwalled) etc etc. It also saved me from kyuremGlalilite once, thou I'm not going to list it as a check because kyurem usually run EP, my opponent didn't for some reason. Used Draco instead to nuke my rotom Lol. Was able to bring in my Phon safely and sweep.
Stats & Ability: Explanation on how Both benefit Rotom. It's speed actually isn't that bad for a pivot position once evolved. As it sits at a very respectable base 116 speed outspeeding all bulky-slow mons. dual 127 defenses which is actually been helping Tom to tank hits+Atk drop :). And it's not a sitting duck(most of the time) w/Base 135SpAtk, Water/Electric is still good typing regardless of the loss of levi(immunity to ground will be missed tho). Also, you're
Probably thinking, Rotom's HP is still well,Shet crap. AND now it not only has bad HP but also lost an immunity. Which now gives it two weakness rather than one. Tbh, grass types are as rare as xerneas(or blaziken who's now not so "overpowered" in this meta). It's bad HP can actually be used to its advantage, As mons like, Bliss,Clef, Cress, Florges have their HP sapped while also bringing their health down a bit. Pain-Split ofc! Can even be used agaisnt offensive threats with great hp. Intimidate actually, helps a BUNCH since there's not really any good defensive Manectitic user(error....not trying to diss zapdos....I luv zapy plz don't kill me). It enables rom to take hits, it otherwise couldn't. Like,
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Frustration vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 111-132 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 87-103 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 43-51 (14.1 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO pinsirite variants are doomed and force out ALL THE TIME.
Once again, burn isn't appreciated thou.
Arcanine isn't hitting ANY harder than Entei tbh.
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 109-129 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 243-286 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Can burn. Crippling it for the rest of the match. Edit: Assuming Luke used SD when you switch in tom.
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 84-100 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO.
-1 0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 78-94 (25.7 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO. Since Garde lose ground-typing upon Mega evolving ;) return isn't do anything more and will usually have to switch out. Subcoil set btw burn will cripple it and as i said, WILL outspeed.
-1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 102-122 (33.6 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 156-184 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Switchin in when DD is used.
I can post more calc. But usually afterwards, the mon just switch out or just try their luck and get burnt in the process or Tom VSwitch out.
Any, and I mean any Red orb user counter Tom. Bring immune to its water STAB and WoW. And usually even VSwitch. Toxic-PS Is all it can do. So you might end up double switchin. And Magic bounce user(sablenite variant) also don't too much care for what Tom does. Except PS. Also, I am aware PS is by no means reliable recovery.(obviously)
Enjoy! I'll post replays once my Tab charge up. Replays are saved on it :p
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248481217
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248483659
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248487872
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248496187
at the time ig, no one was really laddering :/
EDIT: I should seriously start proof reading man ;-;
But anyways, that didn't stop me from battling and thriving for something new. Trying different megastones on different mons. Looking for something that can be used both as partner and pivot for my dear pidgeotiliteTornT And complete my VoltTurn, Id like raikou really. nd want something different from zapy and Thundy. and ofc i think i found a poke that can hopefully gain some usage. After all, this lil fella is craving for attetion. And synergy well with TornT imo.
Rotom-Wash @ Manectite
Ability: Levitate-----》Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Pain Split
Stats: 50/65/127/135/127/116
Rotom has two purposes (for me at least), Pivot & spread burns (i use WoW). Ive had lots of fun and close battles, this guy saved me tons. First let me expand on its purpose. imo, when using RW, you have to pay close attention to your opponent's team. And choose a mon rotom can both safely come in on and mega evolve on or can force out and Mevo and start grabbing momentum w/ VSwitch. Because rotom's regular stats are...well...let's just say VERY underwhelming and will be worn down ALOT faster than it will when in Mevo form.
Stats & Ability: Explanation on how Both benefit Rotom. It's speed actually isn't that bad for a pivot position once evolved. As it sits at a very respectable base 116 speed outspeeding all bulky-slow mons. dual 127 defenses which is actually been helping Tom to tank hits+Atk drop :). And it's not a sitting duck(most of the time) w/Base 135SpAtk, Water/Electric is still good typing regardless of the loss of levi(immunity to ground will be missed tho). Also, you're
Probably thinking, Rotom's HP is still well,
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Frustration vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 111-132 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 87-103 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 43-51 (14.1 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO pinsirite variants are doomed and force out ALL THE TIME.
Once again, burn isn't appreciated thou.
Arcanine isn't hitting ANY harder than Entei tbh.
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 109-129 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 243-286 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Can burn. Crippling it for the rest of the match. Edit: Assuming Luke used SD when you switch in tom.
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 84-100 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO.
-1 0 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 78-94 (25.7 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO. Since Garde lose ground-typing upon Mega evolving ;) return isn't do anything more and will usually have to switch out. Subcoil set btw burn will cripple it and as i said, WILL outspeed.
-1 252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 102-122 (33.6 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 81-96 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 102-121 (33.6 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 156-184 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Switchin in when DD is used.
I can post more calc. But usually afterwards, the mon just switch out or just try their luck and get burnt in the process or Tom VSwitch out.
Any, and I mean any Red orb user counter Tom. Bring immune to its water STAB and WoW. And usually even VSwitch. Toxic-PS Is all it can do. So you might end up double switchin. And Magic bounce user(sablenite variant) also don't too much care for what Tom does. Except PS. Also, I am aware PS is by no means reliable recovery.(obviously)
Enjoy! I'll post replays once my Tab charge up. Replays are saved on it :p
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248481217
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248483659
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248487872
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-248496187
at the time ig, no one was really laddering :/
EDIT: I should seriously start proof reading man ;-;
Last edited:
There's a few rotom-w hardcounters in this format, at least for the standard moveset. (red orb Groudon, Hippowdon, or any red orb'ed ground type come to mind.) As such I like how you've slashed willo with toxic, which gets rid of this problem. (mind the ground weakness.)
You have to be aware of magic bounce users in mix and mega though, whenever you're using a status move you're not yourself immune to.
PS: I like how you gave us the new stats and the new vs. old ability. More people should do that when posting m&m sets. :)
Espeed is really the only way, imo, that offense can beat both stall and offense. There are really only two ways to beat stall, imo; try to just muscle past the opponent, or run moldbreaker stones. the power required to force your way past stall is insane, and that usually comes at the cost of speed. There are exceptions to the rule, but the exceptions are usually pretty much glass cannons that even weak priority beats. For example, lucarionite terrak is almost ohko'd by altarianite Weavile fake out. After that feint is way more than enough to finish it off. Basically, it's difficult for offense to excel when it has other offensive teams to watch for, as well as attempting to break stall. Stall is absolutely insane. Yes blissey is crushed by terrak, but terrak can only do up to just less than 75% to alomomola at +2. That means mola can guaranteed survive one hit, wish, bring its self up to just over 75%, then ohko terrak w/ scald. Alomomola is basically dead, but now terrak is out of the way, and blissey can get to work. Not to mention, at just -1, mola does 73-86% tonterrak, so... My point is, stall is really, really hard to beat, and trying to beat stall AND offense is even harder. Saying that offense v. offense is just who can set up their Ekiller sweeper faster and sweep the opp is honestly not that different than any other meta, the means of doing so are just different. For example, what is offense going to do against double dance Altaria w/o heatran or magnezone? I mean, other steels can do a significant amount too, but at +3 Def, it's basically a tank, so setting up is a breeze at that point. And it has the type change too, so that threatens stuff like steels too, as it doesn't necessarily need to Mega Evolve turn one. Espeeders are offense's means of beating other offensive teams, while still making room for wallbreakers and such. And not to mention, speed tiers in this are super weird. On the one hand, offense is packing stuff w/ like 150-160 Spe sometimes, the you've got blissey running around, lovin life at 20 Spe. You can't always tell what your opponent is running, so you can't always determine if you can sweep yet. That Weavile set I mentioned earlier in this post is a perfect example. What if all other checks to your terrak are gone, then out of nowhere someone pulls altarianite Weavile and stops your sweep cold, killing momentum, and you lose the entire battle. Tough luck dude. You get the idea. Atespeeds are a relatively secure answer to offense (or the checks that it runs for offense) that can fit in w/o taking up too much space on your team. It's honestly what keeps offense viable in my oppinion, and it forces offense to play very aggressively against other offensive teams, which is super fun to play.