Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Nani Man]

Shaymin-Sky and Kyurem-W have been unbanned for types Grass and Ice respectively. The lack of power Grass has should be alleviated with this and should make things much more interesting. Ice now has access to Kyurem-W as well for the same purpose. The two least viable types have finally gotten some improvement and I am excited to see how this will change the metagame. Please note that upon release of all these changes, I encourage everyone to post replays and thoughts of how the new metagame is shifting and functioning. If some pokemon unbanned prove to be too powerful, they will simply be banned again. I think a trial of 2 weeks or so would be fine, and then we can let the meta settle once again.

 

[DoW]

Having thought on the matter for a day or so, I find I honestly have no idea how this meta is going to turn out. On the one hand, types like ice and grass will be more capable of keeping up with the top-tier types. On the other hand, the game will definitely become more matchup-based, with grass being even weaker to ice and almost as weak to flying and fire, even if better against fighting. Ice now chomps on flying, and... well TBH other than normal there's not much that can switch into this. I think it's very much looking like a case of "if you're weak to ice, ice beats you, if you resist kyu-w you can probably beat ice" which I'm not sure is the direction we want to move in. As fail_at_battling has been saying, it's less to do with your skill and more to do with the luck of who you're up against.

Overall I think it'll be good to see how it turns out for two weeks, but after that we may need a decision to be taken quickly to stabilise things again, rather than spending two months on a decision *cough*SwiftSwim*cough*

 

[Belgian Fírnen]

I guess the Fire user in me wants to see Talonflame and Blaziken get unbanned, but reason won here when I said that Blaziken just wouldn't be entirely MANAGEABLE. I mean yes, Water still has an edge over Blaziken if you run Aqua Jet, just like Flying would be able to handle Blaziken with utmost ease if Talonflame was still among us, and one could argue that it's not too hard to manage if you can nip the problem in the bud fast enough, but in the end I just don't think it'd be healthy for the game. Just as I feel Skymin, Genesect, and Kyurem-W won't be.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 216-254 (71.5 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you already had Belly Drum up

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 848-1002 (280.7 - 331.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 322-380 (106.6 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I can't think of many other good Aqua Jet users off the top of my head, sadly.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 260-308 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

I don't think I have to go into Talonflame here, Brave Bird is ALWAYS a 1HKO on Blaziken.

You give examples for only 2 types, Water and Bug.

Ice: The only counter is Avalugg without Stealth rock of course:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 342-404 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 222-262 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Just need one Ice Shard to kill him if Blaziken used a fighting move.

Steel: One counter is Skarm with all HPs:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 422-498 (126.7 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Or you can use Exadrill Scarf at the begining, it works but not after two Speed Boost.

Psychic: Slowbro, what else?
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 270-318 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-> Priority move or switch to send again Slowbro can kill Blaziken.

Flying: Skarm again or Landorus-T
252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 204-240 (63.9 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 522-614 (173.4 - 203.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Scarf Lando-T can outspeed him and OHKO.

Ghost: Only Focus Sash Golurk can kill Blaziken with EQ.

Water: Quagg-Unaware, Slowbro, Gyarados, Crocune,...

Ground: Hippodown, Gliscor, Lando-T, Quagg-unaware.

Electric need Thundrus Prankster with T-Wave to stop him.

Rock: Sash-Omastar for example or Terrakion Scarf, focus sash-leader.

Dragon: We don't care about dragon, Dragonite-Band if you want.

Fairy: Clefable Unaware, Azumarill.

Fighting: Focus Sash-Breloom Spore, Terra-Scarf, Infernape-Sash, Mega Medi priority move,...

Normal: Bulky-Staraptor, Ditto, Diggersby.


Poison, Dark, Fire, Grass are type who would have some issues to own Blaziken.


So, i think he could be tested in my opinion, they are others Pokemons more powerfull than him.

 

[TM93]

You give examples for only 2 types, Water and Bug.

Ice: The only counter is Avalugg without Stealth rock of course:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 342-404 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 222-262 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Just need one Ice Shard to kill him if Blaziken used a fighting move.

Steel: One counter is Skarm with all HPs:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 422-498 (126.7 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Or you can use Exadrill Scarf at the begining, it works but not after two Speed Boost.

Psychic: Slowbro, what else?
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 270-318 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-> Priority move or switch to send again Slowbro can kill Blaziken.

Flying: Skarm again or Landorus-T
252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 204-240 (63.9 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 522-614 (173.4 - 203.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Scarf Lando-T can outspeed him and OHKO.

Ghost: Only Focus Sash Golurk can kill Blaziken with EQ.

Water: Quagg-Unaware, Slowbro, Gyarados, Crocune,...

Ground: Hippodown, Gliscor, Lando-T, Quagg-unaware.

Electric need Thundrus Prankster with T-Wave to stop him.

Rock: Sash-Omastar for example or Terrakion Scarf, focus sash-leader.

Dragon: We don't care about dragon, Dragonite-Band if you want.

Fairy: Clefable Unaware, Azumarill.

Fighting: Focus Sash-Breloom Spore, Terra-Scarf, Infernape-Sash, Mega Medi priority move,...

Normal: Bulky-Staraptor, Ditto, Diggersby.


Poison, Dark, Fire, Grass are type who would have some issues to own Blaziken.


So, i think he could be tested in my opinion, they are others Pokemons more powerfull than him.

While I appreciate the thought, a fair few of these Pokemon rely on Sturdy/Focus Sash to play around Blaziken, which isn't always viable, as it means they HAVE to keep Hazards off the field to be able to take the flaming kung-fu chicken out, which means it's usually going to be sacrificing at least one teammate to take it out. Being left at 1 HP means you're now bait for whatever they send out next. Other than that, yes I agree, there's more for a lot of types to work with now.

 

[haunter]

Ice: The only counter is Avalugg without Stealth rock of course:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 342-404 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 222-262 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Just need one Ice Shard to kill him if Blaziken used a fighting move.

+2 252+ Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 408-480 (103.8 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO and this is assuming leftovers. Why would you use Flare Blitz when HJK does more damage and has no recoil?

Steel: One counter is Skarm with all HPs:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 422-498 (126.7 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Or you can use Exadrill Scarf at the begining, it works but not after two Speed Boost.

Skarm isn't really a counter. It can't switch in as it's 2hko'd by Flare Blitz or Flare Blitz+HJK and can only "counter" Blaziken if sturdy is still intact.

Psychic: Slowbro, what else?
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 270-318 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-> Priority move or switch to send again Slowbro can kill Blaziken.

Okay, Slowbro is one of the few counter to Blaziken. Unfortunately it's only available to Psychic and Water teams.

Flying: Skarm again or Landorus-T
252 Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 204-240 (63.9 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 522-614 (173.4 - 203.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Scarf Lando-T can outspeed him and OHKO.

Again, Skarmory is not a counter and even max HP/Def Lando-T takes up to 94% from a +1 (assuming intimidate) Flare Blitz.

Ghost: Only Focus Sash Golurk can kill Blaziken with EQ.

With focus sash and no SR on the field you can even revenge kill Extremekiller Arceus...

Water: Quagg-Unaware, Slowbro, Gyarados, Crocune,...

As stated before, Psychic and Water monoteams can counter Blaziken.

Ground: Hippodown, Gliscor, Lando-T, Quagg-unaware.

Max Def/HP Hippo is your best bet and it must be at full health to avoid being OHKO'd by a +2 HJK (+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 367-433 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO)

Electric need Thundrus Prankster with T-Wave to stop him.

Can't switch in and will likely have to die in the process unless you get super lucky with a 1st turn full paralysis.

Rock: Sash-Omastar for example or Terrakion Scarf, focus sash-leader.

See Ghost.

Dragon: We don't care about dragon, Dragonite-Band if you want.

Dragonite can only revenge kill and only if Blaziken is below 70% of its HP.

Fairy: Clefable Unaware, Azumarill.

Clefable is 2hko'd by Flare Blitz and max HP Azumarill can only switch in once, taking up to 50% from a resisted HJK.

Fighting: Focus Sash-Breloom Spore, Terra-Scarf, Infernape-Sash, Mega Medi priority move,...

Sash is irrelevant when trying to hypothesize a counter/check. Mega Medi's Fake Out does ~35% and Blziken resists Bullet Punch.

Normal: Bulky-Staraptor, Ditto, Diggersby.

None of these can switch in and only Ditto can revenge kill.

So, i think he could be tested in my opinion, they are others Pokemons more powerfull than him.

No. There's no need to make Fire and Fighting (especially the latter) stronger than they already are.

 

[DoW]

With focus sash and no SR on the field you can even revenge kill Extremekiller Arceus...

Don't give them ideas.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Man all this uber talk for OU Monotype ... Makes me worry about the future of my favorite tier. Honestly I think before deciding to unban UberMons we should've focused on banning some of the broken mons in mono that aren't broken in OU(Medicham ring a bell?). Now to those who are thinking of adding a big ass powerhouse to ice(which plays a very defensive/Bulky attacking style more effectively) is relatively balanced is kinda ludacris. I understand you guys wanna help a low tier monotype out but c'mon. I won't get into my full opinion of kyu-w now but will do so later.

Grass while being low tier is actually a decent type, if you build your team to counter the meta it can be a huge threat. Now with that being said, please tell me a poke who essentially has 0 walls, outspeeds most scarves monotype teams viably have, can flinch an entire team to death, SubSeed and shit on your whole life is being allowed here :I . I would go the banning route primarily with balancing rather than unbanning because these pokes are broken in the OU Metagame, a much more diverse meta than Mono. While I can understand you want to buff a type, but if the goal is to balance monotype what makes you think despite having even a more dramatic effect than it would have in OU Skaymin-S or any other uber should be allowed in mono? While I will post later on Kyu-W most things about shaymin-S can somewhat translate to its case too.

Oh and Shag's point about genesect doesn't much make sense.

Genesect helps bug, and is far from broken in that mono, considering most fire types stop it in it's tracks, and like previously said, if psychic people worry, do what every other monotype team does and STEP OUTSIDE OF YOUR GENERIC COMFORT ZONE AND PUT SOMETHING ON YOUR TEAM THAT ISNT SLOWBRO, MEW, METAGROSS, MEDICHAM, MELOETTA and try something new. Bug could use the little push Genesect gives it

Well you see first and foremost Fire does not stop genesect in its tracks, if used on bug or steel and they prefer a better matchup vs fire they can very well give it douse drive. You could argue that's uncommon, but in Monotype that would be perfectly viable. Second of all Psychic has no answer to it. No matter how creative you are at team building, genesect will have a way to pick away at your whole team, and this applies for any monotype really not just psychic.

Bug has had plenty of buffs already to make it atleast mid tier it doesn't even need a boost. It has solid defensive options in: AV Escavalier, Shuckle, Armaldo, Crustle, Scizor; Access to Sticky Webs and Stealth Rocks without much effort; Rapid Spin and Defog; Some of the best pokes in OU(Mega Pinsir, Scizor, Galv). With bug both having a good defensive presence and an enormous offensive presence thanks to mega pinsir+sticky webs. I don't see why it would need the brokeness, Lack of Counters, and Constant Momentum genesect provides. IMHO to justify why a poke should be unbanned you shouldn't merit the buffs, but instead justify why it should be allowed in Mono despite being too overpowered for the OU Metagame (Including arguments to the reasons it was broken in OU) As with shaymin-s the reason it was banned from OU are emphasized even moreso in monotype because its not as diverse. I am going to just quote from some of the UberMon's Suspect Threads.

"pivots in general" don't have amazing ice/fire/electric coverage that threatens out well over 70% of the tier with a threat of those moves. A common pivot, like Lando-T, is much easier to wall not only because his coverage sucks, but because his ability in general doesn't help him offensively. And remember, Lando-T is an offensive pivot, not a defensive one, and a very common offensive pivot at that.
Genesect on the other hand forces out so many pokemon only to U-turn on them instead. No pokemon possesses the threat of such coverage and power while having u-turn as well, which is what separates genesect apart from other "pivots in general."

I'm just doing these quotes so you guys can get an idea why it is broken in the first place, because a lot of the reasoning for these unbans is that you guys somewhat forgotten a bit how cancerous these guys are.

I can't even grasp why Giratina is even being considered for monotype, but seeing how you guys don't really understand how big of a threat this thing is in Ubers I'll post about it in my next post along w/ Kyurem-W. Just so you guys can somewhat of an idea of how broken giratina is.

As you can see giratina was quick banned because it was decided to be broken beyond a reasonable doubt along the likes of Mewtwo, Arceus, and Rayquaza. Are you guys seriously trying to balance monotype by adding one of those pokes to this awesome tier?

Shaymin-S: 51 Bans, 0 Do Not Bans, and 0 Abstains (100%!!!)

That's right folks, we just made history. Smogon just had its first unanimous vote ever! I would like to take this time to thank Shaymin-S for being so annoying that literally every voter wanted to ban its ass.

This thing has no business being mentioned for unbanning. It was the first Unanimous ban, but you guys still seem to think its ok because grass needs help. Also just for your knowledge Shaymin-S was heavily discussed for being quick banned in the first place with Arceus and etc. . Still, seeing how a poke with a 100% ban vote is gonna be in mono for two weeks is kind of frightening.

After two rounds of unbanning, the community's opinion was clear: they wanted bans. It seemed as though almost no poster in the suspect threads really liked the metagame as it was. With that, the council decided to suspect a Pokemon everyone seemed to have an issue with: Genesect. Genesect was just a total monster. Armed with Download, U-turn, and a myriad of coverage moves, it was the best revenge killer in the game. It was also one of the best sweepers in the game, with a Rock Polish set gaining in popularity toward the end of its reign in OU. Pokemon were beginning to succeed based on how well they matched up against Genesect, and niche Pokemon and sets appeared to counter it. However, it was pretty much universally agreed that Genesect wasn't broken. However, many people had the opinion that it had a very negative impact on the metagame despite being manageable, thus leading to a clear banning supermajority (only a simple majority was required, by the way).

I really wanted to hammer down on Genesect and Shaymin-S because it seems those are the least of the ubers suggested here getting rebuffed.

In Summary though, The reasons they were banned in OU very well apply here so please stop considering Ubers except in very apparent/obvious cases otherwise we'll soon ruin monotype :[ Let's just focus on banning pokemon that are broken in monotype but not OU rather than trying to unban everything.

Most of my quotes are from Smogon's OU Ban History and Corresponding mon's suspect threads.

 

[Anttya]

Now that I'm not busy I can write this fully in length.

Why Kyurem-W shouldn't be banned

- Weakness to Stealth Rock
- It loses Kyurem-B's 125/100/90 defenses meaning that it's more weak to piority. (Kyurem-W's defenses are 125/90/100)
- Pretty slow compared to the rest of the Monotype metagame
- Doesn't have speed boosting moves so it can't be a fast killer outside of a scarf (and scarves make you limited to one type etc)

Why Kyurem-W should be banned

- It has 125/90/100 freaking defenses. Combined with Roost and it's good speed (95) it can be a pretty good Toxic staller etc.

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-W: 198-237 (43.6 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 468-552 (179.3 - 211.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO <- Overkill IMO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-W: 252-296 (55.5 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Fusion Flare vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 544-644 (158.6 - 187.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO <- What's with the overkills

- It has the highest unboosted special attack in the whole game. Not only that, it gets the right coverage moves in the form of Fusion Flare, Earth Power, and Focus Blast. (The combo of Draco Meteor, Ice Beam, Focus Blast / Fusion Flare, and Earth Power hits every Pokemon for neutral damage.)

- It has one of the best abilities in the name of Turboblaze. As all of you know, this means it can get past pesky abilities like Levitate, Thick Fat, and Flash Fire. But then again, you can just hit them with your super effective coverage moves or a overpowered Draco Meteor.

- Equipped with a scarf, it can outspeed every non boosted Pokemon and easily 2HKO a majority of the metagame.

252 SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 236-278 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 282-333 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Yes, it loses to some walls like Mew, and Chansey but with it's attacking stats 120/170/95 whynaut run a wallbreaker set with Outrage?

Kyurem-White @ Life Orb
EVs: 228 Atk / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Turboblaze
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roost / Whatever you want

(or you can switch speed with HP for more bulk. It's highly reccomended that you speed creep base 100s like Mew)

28 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 380-447 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
228 Atk Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Outrage vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 313-370 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
28 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 315-374 (82 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
28 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 181-214 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
28 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 260-307 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Personally I think this set would be the best, or the Specs set cause these calcs show that Kyurem-W has no place in Monotype. With this set, you are able to nab surprise kills then proceed to sweep.

What "counters" it?

Assault Vest Azumarill.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Earth Power vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 122-144 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 390-462 (85.9 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

But please keep in mind that this only limits to Fairy and Water monotypes. Also, you have a nice Avalugg in the back who'd happily take those Play Roughs for Kyurem. And since Azumarill has no form of recovery it can't switch in and out repeatedly.

Blissey / Chansey to some extent.

Yes, they can take those Dracos like a boss, but they can't live 2 Outrages from the wallbreaker set.

Anyone want a Knock Off from Weavile, or a Superpower from Mamoswine?

Mew

252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 307-363 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And it can't live 2 Outrages from the wallbreaker set.

Knock Spam leggo, or be that person who uses King's Rock and Beat Up.

This limits us to Normal, Psychic, Fairy and Water. Things aren't that good..

That's all I have for Kyurem-W, but it's kinda obvious that it's a little overpowered for Monotype

 

[Belgian Fírnen]

I didn't say he will be allowed, i just ask to test him in the metagame because, seriously, Kyurem-W is more powerfull than him and Shaymin-Sky can just haxx one opponent team and win.

It will be difficult to counter Blaziken, but not impossible, i wanted just see him for the period of test with Shaymin-S and Kyurem-S if he would be too broken that everybody think it.

To be honnest, i don't like using fire and fighting team, i just showed he wasn't stronger than Kyurem-S and Shaymin-S...

You can just ban him ability (Speed Boost) too, it's a solution...

I don't think have a bad knowledge about the monotype meta, ranking can talk for me (Just for guy would think i'm a random guy who say stupid thinks...).

 

[inscribe]

WELP. Time for Tank Zard and Zapdos to become the MVP's now. Kyurem-W.......goddamnit. Although, it'll be refreshing to see less of the 'u use flying, u sak' people, since we're finally getting a challenge.

BTW, how are the suspect tests going to be hosted? Is it the regular ladder, and you need to get a certain ELO or something? This is one suspect test I want to vote on.

Nani Man plans on hosting manual suspect tests, I don't have details on how he's going to host them, but they're going to happen.

 

[Vinnesia Bossman]

Genesect helps bug, and is far from broken in that mono, considering most fire types stop it in it's tracks, and like previously said, if psychic people worry, do what every other monotype team does and STEP OUTSIDE OF YOUR GENERIC COMFORT ZONE AND PUT SOMETHING ON YOUR TEAM THAT ISNT SLOWBRO, MEW, METAGROSS, MEDICHAM, MELOETTA and try something new.

The problem I have as a psychic user (who only has the bro and mew of those you mentioned btw) with genesect is not stepping out of my comfort zone to stop it, its the in game strategy, or should i say, lack thereof, thats needed to kill it. Even the best psychic walls cant switch into a u-turn and live to survive the next poke:

vs. Slowbro, arguable the most viable and popular physical psychic wall
248 Atk Genesect Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 173-204 (43.9 - 51.7%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-260 (55.3 - 65.9%)

vs. Cressalia, a more fortifying physical wall, but without regenerator to switch in and out and to take multiple u-turns
248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 138-164 (31 - 36.9%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 206-246 (46.3 - 55.4%)

vs. Metagross, perhaps could be viable as a physical wall? but doesnt have any recovery besides rest
248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 97-115 (26.6 - 31.5%)

vs. Mew, maybe can survive a hit after a non-boosted u-turn before roosting, but not if boosted
248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 156-186 (38.6 - 46%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%)

Or maybe you want to leave your poke who just got a kill in to take on genesect:

vs. Mega Medicham
248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 124-147 (47.5 - 56.3%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 186-219 (71.2 - 83.9%)

vs. Mega Gardevoir
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 229-271 (82.6 - 97.8%) (would always be att boost unless physically defensive)

vs. Victini (non-scarfed, or scarfed after using V-create which would let Genesect attack first)
248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 109-129 (31.9 - 37.8%)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%)

vs. Espeon (because why not calc a poke that's super-effective against it?)
+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 486-572 (145.5 - 171.2%) (would always be att boost unless physically defensive)

The amount of fast, very common, hard hitting bug pokes (mega-pinsir, scarf-heracross, volcarona) make it near impossible to take a u-turn hit and survive the next move.

AND THIS IS ONLY IF THE GUY USES SCARF U-TURN. God forbid its special and you switch in your physical wall slowbro to actually see a tbolt.

Its too powerful, its movepool is too diverse, and u-turn lets it run wild on psychic (but also dark and grass just as good). If you want to beat Genesect with any one of those three types, you either need your opponent to be an idiot and let it die when you switch in scarftini, or somehow kill the other 5 pokes and have atleast 2 pokes who can survive a u-turn and do enough damage to kill at the end. NO AMOUNT OF PREDICTING CAN ESCAPE GENESECT, THATS THE PROBLEM WITH IT IN MONOTYPE. IT IS THE ULTIMATE PSYCHIC/DARK/GRASS REVENGE KILLER, and I'm sure moves like flamethrower, ice beam, thunderbolt, iron head, and extremespeed make it a pain in the ass for every other type as well.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Wow. Unbanning things? That's not the purpose of a Banlist. It's called a Banlist for a reason. All this is is an attempt to make Types more appealing, when in reality it's doing nothing to make them useable. Kyurem-W isn't what Ice needed to beat Scizor. Shaymin-S doesn't provide Grass with a Switch In into Sun Boosted Fire Attacks.

Some Types will be less popular than others. The mission is to make them Viable, not bring in broken shit to counter broken shit.

Might as well have made a completely new Meta, Ubers Monotype, if that's what you wanted.

Really disappointed.

P.S. Oh and good job, you've officially gone and opened the gates to he'll with this decision. Now everyone and their grandmother will be demanding that other things be Unabnned as well. Genesect and Talonflame, anyone? Oh wait. That's already happened.

Good luck surviving the shitstorm.

 

[TM93]

Okay now I have to get this out of my system.

Ubers Monotype: Everyone runs Mono Water because Kyogre is Kyogre. Kyogre, Palkia, various SS users, and heck, possibly even Waterceus.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Okay now I have to get this out of my system.

Ubers Monotype: Everyone runs Mono Water because Kyogre is Kyogre. Kyogre, Palkia, various SS users, and heck, possibly even Waterceus.

If something is broken you Ban it. Which is my point exactly. It's a BANLIST.

Edit:

This should have waited until ORAS if it was going to be done. Do this now, well next month everything goes back to square one

Treecko waited to got damn long to try to fix this Tier. Now it's the last minute and a play has been made. Straight up disappointing.

 

[Anttya]

Why Genesect shouldn’t be banned

- 99 base speed. This means it’ll be outsped by the ever present base 100s and above.
- It’s walled by a majority of Fire types if it doesn’t run a Douse Drive + Techno Blast.
- 71/95/95 is pretty frail meaning it can’t switch in and out repeatedly.
-No form of recovery out of Rest (If I see Rest Talking Genesects out there..)

Why Genesect should be banned

- Amazing attack stats (120/120/99) paired with Download means it gets a free Specs or Band.
- Great Special coverage in the form of Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Dark Pulse, Psychic, and Techno Blast. If you want Physical then you have Blaze Kick, Extreme Speed, Gunk Shot, and Zen Headbutt.
- 2 Excellent Boosting moves. Hone Claws, and Shift Gear. Although Genesect mostly has 100% accurate moves (Bar Blaze Kick with 90%) you can still use it to scare opponents. But hopefully you’ll mostly use Shift Gear which boosts attack by 1 and speed by 2. (And if you get the + Atk download boost you get +2 Atk and +2 Speed) When boosted Genesect can easily sweep late game.
- Unpredictable like crazy. Genesect can pretty much run every type of set if you’re creative enough.

How Genesect fares

Scarf vs Monotype: You get so much momentum with U-turn. Feel like a Skarmory’s coming? Spam Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or Flamethrower your choice.

Band vs Monotype: But.. Genesect won’t outspeed a lot of stuff with it’s sad 99 base speed rite? SIKE, Bug is one of the only types that gets Sticky Web so even with a positive attacking nature you can outspeed a majority of the grounded metagame. Also, +1 Banded Extremespeed hurts :[

Life Orb / Mixed vs Monotype: Genesect has the opportunity to carry Explosion although it isn’t really needed since it has stuff to beat stuff like Mew and Chansey. So that’s not really recommended unless you feel suicidal. So the best set to run would be U-turn, 2 Sp Atks, and Extremespeed.

Douse Drive vs Monotype: lol antifire much. But even though it sounds like a good idea on paper, it’s only helpful in Fire mono matchups, other times you’ll miss the scarf or band. Also, the best switch in would either be Heatran or Charizard-Y

252 SpA Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 170-202 (44 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Genesect Techno Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 110-130 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(These are custom made so correct me if I’m wrong)

You might think, well, I can keep on spamming Techno Blast for Heatran and Thunderbolt for Charizard right? You’re half right, you’ll damage Heatran beyond repair but you’ll have a dead Genesect. And unfortunately, Charizard-Y outspeeds you with that 1 extra speed point. Talk about trolls

Specs vs Monotype: Actually, this is totally possible. You just have more power in your special attacks and more investment there. U-turn, instead of being your main move is just to gain momentum against stuff like Chansey. With Sticky Web on the other side, you can easily sweep with the correct move late game.

Shift Gear vs Monotype: Shift Gear doesn’t force you to run physica sets. It can be used to bluff stuff like Skarmory out and kill it. Why? Genesect obviously has a better special movepool. Also, at +2 it reaches a speed of 594 meaning that even scarf Jolteon can’t outspeed it (Scarfed Jolteon reaches 591). Combined with a +1 or +2 attacking stat it pretty much can’t be stopped outside of priority.

What “walls” it?

Actually a good amount of Pokemon can

Chansey / Blissey

+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 214-253 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO

Once again, Chansey can tank moves like no tomorrow. But Genesect can easily U-turn into something like Scizor and start setting up.

Assault Vest Azumarill

8 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 94-112 (27.2 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

It can take a Thunderbolt before hitting it with a Waterfall

Bulky Kuryem-W and Black (Sets w/o Iron Head)

+1 8 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 124-147 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 62.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Almost Every Fire type and their mothers (No Douse Drive)

Fire happens to resist Flamethrower, Iron Head, U-turn and Ice Beam which are Genesect’s most common moves. Not to mention that a lot of Fire’s most common Pokes can come in and Fire Blast it.

I’m blank atm, so this is it atm.

If you’re a hardcore Genesect fan then you’ll more than be saying this: “But, so many types wall it! It should be unbanned!” the thing is that U-turn gives you momentum, even though it does a small amount of damage don’t forget that Bug still has a Mega Pinsir / Heracross to screw with you. These two Pokemon happen to screw over everything listed on this page.

Aftermatch!

Chansey / Blissey

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 746-878 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pinsir: 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 396-466 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lets set up all over it!)

Assault Vest Azumarill

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pinsir: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 298-352 (86.3 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Bulky Kyurems

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 408-480 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Don’t forget U-turn / Flamethrower damage!)
Pinsir: 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 214-254 (47.1 - 55.9%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Fire Types

Lets say Charizard Y because it escapes Sticky Web, and outspeeds our metallic friend.

Heracross: Better switch out, but if your opponent’s special / misses Fire Blast / Air Slash then: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 980-1160 (329.9 - 390.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (OVER KILLLLL)
Pinsir: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 303-357 (102 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Once again, lets say it’s a little overpowered for us ;[

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Why Genesect shouldn’t be banned

- 99 base speed. This means it’ll be outsped by the ever present base 100s and above.
- It’s walled by a majority of Fire types if it doesn’t run a Douse Drive + Techno Blast.
- 71/95/95 is pretty frail meaning it can’t switch in and out repeatedly.
-No form of recovery out of Rest (If I see Rest Talking Genesects out there..)

Why Genesect should be banned

- Amazing attack stats (120/120/99) paired with Download means it gets a free Specs or Band.
- Great Special coverage in the form of Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Dark Pulse, Psychic, and Techno Blast. If you want Physical then you have Blaze Kick, Extreme Speed, Gunk Shot, and Zen Headbutt.
- 2 Excellent Boosting moves. Hone Claws, and Shift Gear. Although Genesect mostly has 100% accurate moves (Bar Blaze Kick with 90%) you can still use it to scare opponents. But hopefully you’ll mostly use Shift Gear which boosts attack by 1 and speed by 2. (And if you get the + Atk download boost you get +2 Atk and +2 Speed) When boosted Genesect can easily sweep late game.
- Unpredictable like crazy. Genesect can pretty much run every type of set if you’re creative enough.

How Genesect fares

Scarf vs Monotype: You get so much momentum with U-turn. Feel like a Skarmory’s coming? Spam Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or Flamethrower your choice.

Band vs Monotype: But.. Genesect won’t outspeed a lot of stuff with it’s sad 99 base speed rite? SIKE, Bug is one of the only types that gets Sticky Web so even with a positive attacking nature you can outspeed a majority of the grounded metagame. Also, +1 Banded Extremespeed hurts :[

Life Orb / Mixed vs Monotype: Genesect has the opportunity to carry Explosion although it isn’t really needed since it has stuff to beat stuff like Mew and Chansey. So that’s not really recommended unless you feel suicidal. So the best set to run would be U-turn, 2 Sp Atks, and Extremespeed.

Douse Drive vs Monotype: lol antifire much. But even though it sounds like a good idea on paper, it’s only helpful in Fire mono matchups, other times you’ll miss the scarf or band. Also, the best switch in would either be Heatran or Charizard-Y

252 SpA Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 170-202 (44 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Genesect Techno Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 110-130 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(These are custom made so correct me if I’m wrong)

You might think, well, I can keep on spamming Techno Blast for Heatran and Thunderbolt for Charizard right? You’re half right, you’ll damage Heatran beyond repair but you’ll have a dead Genesect. And unfortunately, Charizard-Y outspeeds you with that 1 extra speed point. Talk about trolls

Specs vs Monotype: Actually, this is totally possible. You just have more power in your special attacks and more investment there. U-turn, instead of being your main move is just to gain momentum against stuff like Chansey. With Sticky Web on the other side, you can easily sweep with the correct move late game.

Shift Gear vs Monotype: Shift Gear doesn’t force you to run physica sets. It can be used to bluff stuff like Skarmory out and kill it. Why? Genesect obviously has a better special movepool. Also, at +2 it reaches a speed of 594 meaning that even scarf Jolteon can’t outspeed it (Scarfed Jolteon reaches 591). Combined with a +1 or +2 attacking stat it pretty much can’t be stopped outside of priority.

What “walls” it?

Actually a good amount of Pokemon can

Chansey / Blissey

+1 248 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 214-253 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO

Once again, Chansey can tank moves like no tomorrow. But Genesect can easily U-turn into something like Scizor and start setting up.

Assault Vest Azumarill

8 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 94-112 (27.2 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

It can take a Thunderbolt before hitting it with a Waterfall

Bulky Kuryem-W and Black (Sets w/o Iron Head)

+1 8 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 124-147 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 62.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Almost Every Fire type and their mothers (No Douse Drive)

Fire happens to resist Flamethrower, Iron Head, U-turn and Ice Beam which are Genesect’s most common moves. Not to mention that a lot of Fire’s most common Pokes can come in and Fire Blast it.

I’m blank atm, so this is it atm.

If you’re a hardcore Genesect fan then you’ll more than be saying this: “But, so many types wall it! It should be unbanned!” the thing is that U-turn gives you momentum, even though it does a small amount of damage don’t forget that Bug still has a Mega Pinsir / Heracross to screw with you. These two Pokemon happen to screw over everything listed on this page.

Aftermatch!

Chansey / Blissey

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 746-878 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pinsir: 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 396-466 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Lets set up all over it!)

Assault Vest Azumarill

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pinsir: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 298-352 (86.3 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Bulky Kyurems

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 408-480 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Don’t forget U-turn / Flamethrower damage!)
Pinsir: 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 214-254 (47.1 - 55.9%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Fire Types

Lets say Charizard Y because it escapes Sticky Web, and outspeeds our metallic friend.

Heracross: Better switch out, but if your opponent’s special / misses Fire Blast / Air Slash then: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 980-1160 (329.9 - 390.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (OVER KILLLLL)
Pinsir: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 303-357 (102 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Once again, lets say it’s a little overpowered for us ;[

Yo its not about "Walling" Genesect when it can literally escape and punish all those situations or Switch ins with U-turn

Their is a reason shit is Banned man

 

[inscribe]

Assault Vest Azumarill

Heracross: 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-285 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pinsir: 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 298-352 (86.3 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO[

>8 spa on a tbolt genesect

Seeing it in your perspective, you expect the Genesect user to stay into the checks, as AV Azumarill easily gets worn down after 252 SpA Thunderbolts after Stealth Rock: 252 SpA Expert Belt Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 137-163 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Expert Belt Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 137-163 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Genesect can punch holes through anything, and Hyper Offensive teams like Ice stand an even worse chance VS Genesect. Mixed Genesect can break through ANYTHING. The things it can't break through are easily handled by its powerful teammates, like 4 Attacks Scizor-Mega checks Chansey and other Bulky Normal-Types that threaten Genesect. With the unbanning of Genesect, we have opened a huge gate for Hyper Offensive Bug to destroy the ladders. Pinsir-Mega, Choice Band Scizor, Galvantula, and Genesect honestly might be too much for this Metagame to handle, and only extremely bulky types stand any chance against Hyper Offensive Bug.

CALCS:

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 130-153 (34.8 - 41%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 194-229 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

There it is, literally the only check to Scizor in Mono Normal. Everything else is literally bopped by a Choice Banded Superpower, and if you really want, you don't even need to use Pinsir-Mega. Also, a new playstyle I foresee is Volt-Turn Bug. Volt Switch Galvantula + Choice Band/Scizorite can easily play by any check thrown at it. But, the only downside is being so weak to Stealth Rock. You'd need a reliable Defogger in Mega Scizor or a Rapid Spinner of choice, preferably Armaldo to give your team even more offensive presence even while you're setting Stealth Rock, so you don't lose that much offensive presence when pivoting into your Rapid Spinner.

 

[Nani Man]

so as all you know, the changes are live on the server and the three main additions are Genesect, Kyurem-White and Shaymin-Sky. Some people had been asking me today "why test all three together, it wont be able to determine if another broken thing is keeping another broken thing in check" and the answer is this:

[12:58:05] Nani Man: what i had imagined was an influx of the same types (bug/steel) assuming we just released genesect and not the other two (kyurem-white/shaymin-sky)
[12:58:25] Nani Man: but if we released the other two with genesect, it would promote diversity
[12:58:27] Nani Man: and a good measure
[12:58:31] Nani Man: in the small duration we have

One at a time is typically how it goes, but Monotype is very different and that is not plausible. If we had just released Genesect, all you would see is bug/steel spam and not really measure the metagame as a whole. Releasing those three among the former pokemon previously banned (aegi/mawilite/deo) gives incentive to use other types and allow us to observe the metagame on a larger scale. Also, just to mention this again, post away your replays and thoughts as it will be easier for us as a community to observe.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

so as all you know, the changes are live on the server and the three main additions are Genesect, Kyurem-White and Shaymin-Sky. Some people had been asking me today "why test all three together, it wont be able to determine if another broken thing is keeping another broken thing in check" and the answer is this:

[12:58:05] Nani Man: what i had imagined was an influx of the same types (bug/steel) assuming we just released genesect and not the other two (kyurem-white/shaymin-sky)
[12:58:25] Nani Man: but if we released the other two with genesect, it would promote diversity
[12:58:27] Nani Man: and a good measure
[12:58:31] Nani Man: in the small duration we have

One at a time is typically how it goes, but Monotype is very different and that is not plausible. If we had just released Genesect, all you would see is bug/steel spam and not really measure the metagame as a whole. Releasing those three among the former pokemon previously banned (aegi/mawilite/deo) gives incentive to use other types and allow us to observe the metagame on a larger scale. Also, just to mention this again, post away your replays and thoughts as it will be easier for us as a community to observe.

Makes sense.

 

[Dirpz]

Sadly since skymin, kyurem-white, and genesect happen to be weak to fire huge influx of fire on the ladder. Nani Man if we are gonna do this again might i suggest we try to have each have different weakness. I have heard scarf volcaronia, I would not be suprised if there is other wierd scarfs are poping up . This should be an interesting two weeks

 

[Belgian Fírnen]

Ok, so, the update is came and, with my luck, the first game i make this day (with my ground) is against Grass with Shaymin-Sky.
So, i continue to say that Grass with Shaymin-Sky isn't broken.
Do you want the replay? Ok, this is the replay:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158135940

Enjoy.

 

[fail_at_battling]

Ok, so, the update is came and, with my luck, the first game i make this day (with my ground) is against Grass with Shaymin-Sky.
So, i continue to say that Grass with Shaymin-Sky isn't broken.
Do you want the replay? Ok, this is the replay:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158135940

Enjoy.

Shaymin-s isn't even used much in that battle; this replay only proves that it is possible to check shaymin-s, but does not have anything to do with countering. A good player would have strived to bring shaymin-s into situations where you are forced to sacrifice something to bring in a check.

 

[Belgian Fírnen]

When you face someone, you don't use only one Pokemon, you use all Pokemons of your team, so "Shaymin-S isn't even used much in that battle", that's not an argument for me.
I posted this replay to show he can be countered.
Don't forget Shaymin-S lose 25% on Stealth Rock, so, if Rocks are presents (and as Grass type doesn't have Rapid Spinner and good Defoger (Tropius is so useless)), you can only switch 4 times and if you use Life Orb, only 3 times.
Shaymin-S isn't very broken (as Kyurem-White) and make Grass better, that's the truth.

 

[fail_at_battling]

When you face someone, you don't use only one Pokemon, you use all Pokemons of your team, so "Shaymin-S isn't even used much in that battle", that's not an argument for me.
I posted this replay to show he can be countered.
Don't forget Shaymin-S lose 25% on Stealth Rock, so, if Rocks are presents (and as Grass type doesn't have Rapid Spinner and good Defoger (Tropius is so useless)), you can only switch 4 times and if you use Life Orb, only 3 times.
Shaymin-S isn't very broken (as Kyurem-White) and make Grass better, that's the truth.

A counter is a pokemon that can safely switch in and force the opponent out. A check is a pokemon that is not necessarily able to safely switch in, but can force the opponent out when given the chance. The replay doesn't show whether or not shaymin-s is broken, but only that you are able to check it after the opponent has worn out the rest of his team. Your argument that all pokemon are used doesn't mean anything, other than the other pokemon not being broken. You have never actually switched a pokemon safely into shaymin-s. When played properly, shaymin-s should not have to switch in four times against a ground team, as most checks would be eliminated by then. I do agree that it makes grass better, though.
I will not be convinced that shaymin-s isn't broken until I see several replays showing a skilled shaymin-s player still being beaten by ground and fighting.

 

[Belgian Fírnen]

I think to M-Scizor bulky, Chansey with T-Wave, to any scarf with Rock, Fire, ice, flying move to revenge-kill, Mega-Pinsir is too a great Revenge-killer,...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158148192
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-158159352
Is Shaymin-Sky was invicible? I used and i've been easily beaten by a Steel Team.
I've a good level i think, so, you can see that stop Shaymin-S is possible.
You have just know play, that's all.

Steel doesn't need Genesect to be a great type.