Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[oddsok]

Not sure about this. I know it's been looked at, but I did not take good notes on this one. I seem to remember repel stopped RNG advances, though.

Using a repel and running through an area with wild pokemon certainly does advance the RNG. I used one the whole time to advance my frame when capturing Heatran. I do not know for sure if it advances in the exact same way, but I know for sure that there is some advancement going on, and it is definitely more than + # of party pokemon per 128 steps.

Whenever there is opportunity I would advise that to reduce the number of journal flips, that you run through the grass/area where wild pokemon appear.
I always sweet scented instantly after entering the game and if my seed was correct I would do an approximated number of multiple of 128 steps (so that I could still walk 128 in heatran's cave to change my frame from odd>even or vice versa) because I wasn't sure if steps in areas where pokemon appeared effected steps in areas where wild pokemon do not appear. I would then sweet scent from there and do my reduced journal flips.

Sorry if this is a bit nonsensical.

in the OP, it says that Sweet Scent will advance the RNG by 7 in caves. I just caught my first RNG-abused pokemon, so bear with me if I'm understanding something wrong.. I caught an Unown, which was in a cave (frame 2) and I have a Mesprit running around (that's a +1 frame), so if I catch an Unown, it would be at Frame 3. However, when I hit the right seconds, but wrong delays, I captured it to see where I landed. Since I used Sweet Scent to capture that Unown, I expected it to be at Frame 10.. but strangely it was on Frame 3. When I hit the right delays, I went for my offset of 43, and only did 20 flips to get there (after 20 flips, I Sweet Scented). Shouldn't Sweet Scent advance it by 7?

By the way, thanks for making my first RNG-capture possible, :)

No, it would be +7 for your next capture. So your first was 3, the next would be 10 (I'm fairly sure, but you might have to take Mesprit into account again)

 

[LightningFusion]

in the OP, it says that Sweet Scent will advance the RNG by 7 in caves. I just caught my first RNG-abused pokemon, so bear with me if I'm understanding something wrong.. I caught an Unown, which was in a cave (frame 2) and I have a Mesprit running around (that's a +1 frame), so if I catch an Unown, it would be at Frame 3. However, when I hit the right seconds, but wrong delays, I captured it to see where I landed. Since I used Sweet Scent to capture that Unown, I expected it to be at Frame 10.. but strangely it was on Frame 3. When I hit the right delays, I went for my offset of 43, and only did 20 flips to get there (after 20 flips, I Sweet Scented). Shouldn't Sweet Scent advance it by 7?

By the way, thanks for making my first RNG-capture possible, :)

If you read my previous post about advancing by capturing a pokemon by SS, then SSing again, that will help explain this without having to re type it. It goes +7 of the method 1 frame of the caught pokemon. If it's the first pokemon to be caught, its only 2 like you said.

Oddsok: I'll test tomorrow since some other testers haven't been reliable in the past.

 

[klock]

Oh...! so is that why it's under Method J??

 

[Sephirona]

Ah, yesh. :> Alright, thanks.
In caves, it's different, I presume?
If I wanted to catch a Gastly, is that mansion considered a cave?
And does SSing in water advance more than 2? Was it three?

lmao at my questions DX

Nvm, answered that myself since I get that part now *_*

All Sweet Scented Pokémon
Frame (Grass): 2
Frame (Cave): 2
Frame (Water): 3

But to delve a bit further into my previous question:

If, say, I were to hypothetically target a frame of 600 in a cave, and my Target Pokemon's frame is 1, I'd have to walk 128 steps with an odd number of Pokemon in my party to advance the RNG by 5 so my frame then becomes even.

But I would have to subtract 128 from 600 as well, right, since one step advances the RNG by one? :0

Then I'd subtract 5 from that number and divide by two for my Journal Flips, for a total of 133 advances?

No sweet scent involved. I didn't need to change my frame from odd to even for Uxie because my target frame was odd, so I haven't tried changing the frame this way yet :x

 

[oddsok]

Nvm, answered that myself since I get that part now *_*



But to delve a bit further into my previous question:

If, say, I were to hypothetically target a frame of 600 in a cave, and my Target Pokemon's frame is 1, I'd have to walk 128 steps with an odd number of Pokemon in my party to advance the RNG by 5 so my frame then becomes even.

But I would have to subtract 128 from 600 as well, right, since one step advances the RNG by one? :0

Then I'd subtract 5 from that number and divide by two for my Journal Flips? No sweet scent involved. I didn't need to change my frame from odd to even for Uxie because my target frame was odd, so I haven't tried changing the frame this way yet :x

I'm not sure at all. This really needs to be tested, but I would think that it would only be +128 if you walked in a straight line for 128 steps, in an area with wild pokemon.

As LF said the best way to change your frame from even>odd or vice versa is to just turn once of take a step in an area where wild pokemon appear, which is +1, then do your flips, then SS.

 

[Sephirona]

I'm not sure at all. This really needs to be tested, but I would think that it would only be +128 if you walked in a straight line for 128 steps, in an area with wild pokemon.

As LF said the best way to change your frame from even>odd or vie versa is to just turn once of take a step in an area where wild pokemon appear, which is +1, then do your flips, then SS.

Even for caves like Victory Road, where wild Pokemon appear? Not a legendary chamber, which I assume functions like walking in a town or outside of grass. :(

I understand turning in the grass, just wasn't sure about caves. Ah well, I'll fiddle around with it a bit tonight. Thanks for your help :'D

 

[oddsok]

Even for caves like Victory Road, where wild Pokemon appear? Not a legendary chamber, which I assume functions like walking in a town or outside of grass. :(

I understand turning in the grass, just wasn't sure about caves. Ah well, I'll fiddle around with it a bit tonight. Thanks for your help :'D

Again, I am assuming, but I do believe those particular mechanics work in the same way in cave or in grass.

 

[Dizzybanana21x]

I am trying to hit a frame of 456 with a sweet scented pokemon. I keep hitting the correct seed, doing 227 flips and then I catch the pokemon but I keep hitting the same frame in the 500s??

 

[bearsfan092]

I am trying to hit a frame of 456 with a sweet scented pokemon. I keep hitting the correct seed, doing 227 flips and then I catch the pokemon but I keep hitting the same frame in the 500s??

Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result my friend. If you're hitting a high frame, lower your journal flips. There may be something you're doing that you don't realize that is advancing the frame, but you're consistently doing it.

Remember everyone, as much as we try to reduce RNG abuse to a simple guide, there's still some thinking to be done on the end user's side.

 

[mingot]

Using a repel and running through an area with wild pokemon certainly does advance the RNG. I used one the whole time to advance my frame when capturing Heatran. I do not know for sure if it advances in the exact same way, but I know for sure that there is some advancement going on, and it is definitely more than + # of party pokemon per 128 steps.

Whenever there is opportunity I would advise that to reduce the number of journal flips, that you run through the grass/area where wild pokemon appear.
I always sweet scented instantly after entering the game and if my seed was correct I would do an approximated number of multiple of 128 steps (so that I could still walk 128 in heatran's cave to change my frame from odd>even or vice versa) because I wasn't sure if steps in areas where pokemon appeared effected steps in areas where wild pokemon do not appear. I would then sweet scent from there and do my reduced journal flips.

Sorry if this is a bit nonsensical.

No, it would be +7 for your next capture. So your first was 3, the next would be 10 (I'm fairly sure, but you might have to take Mesprit into account again)

Just went and did a confirmation that walking in "grass" does advance the RNG, even if repel is being used. It makes sense, too, because when you think about it you can encounter monsters with repel in effect that are of a higher level than your lead. And to find out if the monster is a higher level requires ... an RNG call.

Updated the OP this time :/

And don't forget the + party members per 128 steps, as that should still be in effect as well.

I'd say to use journal flips, still, though, as it is easier to miscount turns/steps in my opinion.

I am trying to hit a frame of 456 with a sweet scented pokemon. I keep hitting the correct seed, doing 227 flips and then I catch the pokemon but I keep hitting the same frame in the 500s??

Are you generating as method J? Sounds like perhaps you didn't do that...

 

[Sephirona]

Again, I am assuming, but I do believe those particular mechanics work in the same way in cave or in grass.

Oh...then I'm asking a pointless question. lol;
If I can just turn once in Victory Road since it functions like grass and still use Journal flips, that's fine too. Like mingot just said above, I don't want to walk 128 steps when I can do flips. I don't trust my counting abilities anyway. xP

I suppose the 128 steps + Party # is just for Legendaries in no-wild-encounter caves, which I haven't yet needed to do. What I just needed to understand was the distinction between an encounter-cave and a no-encounter cave. Thanks!

Alright, shiny zubat, here I come! D:<

 

[Misdreavus]

A few questions for you all... I'm just about ready to get started.

1. Are most of you getting Pokémon with weird years or are you able to manipulate your delay (I suppose by using the information in this post, which looks like it requires timing very similar to what is needed when abusing Emerald's RNG) in order to get a reasonable year?

2. Does anyone think that Nintendo would have a problem with a Pokémon that is "from the past/future" if they ran across it while hack-checking your game/team?

3. Is there no way to verify that you've gotten the correct target time / delay via coin flip (or any other way, for that matter, before catching your Pokémon) if you're dealing with wild Pokémon instead of eggs?

4. I have not released any roaming Pokémon (traded for Mesprit's dex entry :D). Does this mean that when I begin the game, my frame is set at 0, 1, or what? I plan on using Sweet Scent, and I see that using it in the grass advances the seed by 1... how do I account for this? I'm a bit confused about the differences between advancing the seed and advancing the frame.

5. How exactly do Synchronize and Everstones affect the D/P/Pt RNG?

Thanks!

 

[oddsok]

A few questions for you all... I'm just about ready to get started.

1. Are most of you getting Pokémon with weird years or are you able to manipulate your delay (I suppose by using the information in this post, which looks like it requires timing very similar to what is needed when abusing Emerald's RNG) in order to get a reasonable year?
I personally am settling with pokemon with ridiculous years, but I know that many people are going for wild delays. I would suggest that you attempt the crazy year one first and once you've got the hang of that, attempt to go for higher delays. I personally haven't tried yet, because I haven't had the time, but will do so when I have the opportunity because I know heaps of people have been turned off by the bad dates on my legends.

I figured I'd stick with what I was doing for the time being, and change to high delays with my remaining legends.
2. Does anyone think that Nintendo would have a problem with a Pokémon that is "from the past/future" if they ran across it while hack-checking your game/team?
I would assume that they can't really do anything about it. Being realistic, could they disqualify you for having a crazy year? You could just claim that your brother was messing with your DS and changed the year. It's much too easy to change the date, so what can they do?
3. Is there no way to verify that you've gotten the correct target time / delay via coin flip (or any other way, for that matter, before catching your Pokémon) if you're dealing with wild Pokémon instead of eggs?
Do you mean is there any other way to check if you hit your seed? The only other way is to catch a pokemon and use RNG reporter to check. Obviously as long as you take this into account you can still use journal flips or moving around to advance the RNG to hit your desired frame.
4. I have not released any roaming Pokémon (traded for Mesprit's dex entry :D). Does this mean that when I begin the game, my frame is set at 0, 1, or what? I plan on using Sweet Scent, and I see that using it in the grass advances the seed by 1... how do I account for this? I'm a bit confused about the differences between advancing the seed and advancing the frame.
Starts at zero. I'm still very confused about sweet scenting etc. at the moment and have my own queries, so I can't answer your other questions. Oh and where did you see that it advances it by one? Do you mean for the pokemon you just scented or the next one you scent/encounter, because if it's for the next it is +7.
5. How exactly do Synchronize and Everstones affect the D/P/Pt RNG?
Synchronize means that same spreads appear on more frames for Method J. Not sure how exactly an everstone actually effects the RNG, but I'm fairly sure it's been proven to stuff up the IRNG abuse that we try. I don't know of the exact mechanics though.
Thanks!

I tried my best to answer all of your questions.

Now mine: I just sweet scented a pokemon outside Heatran's cave. I used it to figure out my initial seed, and the pokemon appeared on frame of 113. But that is "actual", and really it is frame two for Method J.

So what's the difference? Does actual hold any significance? It appears in the seed finder and is still included so I assume it does...

I'm just trying to get my head around this for wild pokemon.

Just to be helpful I scented another pokemon straight after and it was frame 120 for Method J. This really confuses me. Since this is on a Japanese game I cannot say for sure if my first page has a pokemon caught/defeated, but that only appeared when I started up the game. I would assume that would affect the first sweet scent not any subsequent ones.

I'll note the IVs, nature, seed and frames so that I can refer back if needed.

=====

Edit: I did some tests outside Heatrans cave with sweet scenting and got some very bewildering results.

Seed: 8bb0f2d5 (30th May 2067, delay=606)

I sweet scented 3 pokes in a row. These were the results.

Written like this: Method J frame, Actual, PID

1st- 69, 156, 9c3fdff2
2nd- 8, 47, 3703d04a
3rd- 54. 65, b6ec44c9

I'm extremely confused Dx

and now the seed won't come up in the seed->time tool. says it is invalid.

 

[LightningFusion]

I tried my best to answer all of your questions.

Now mine: I just sweet scented a pokemon outside Heatran's cave. I used it to figure out my initial seed, and the pokemon appeared on frame of 113. But that is "actual", and really it is frame two for Method J.

So what's the difference? Does actual hold any significance? It appears in the seed finder and is still included so I assume it does...

I'm just trying to get my head around this for wild pokemon.

Just to be helpful I scented another pokemon straight after and it was frame 120 for Method J. This really confuses me. Since this is on a Japanese game I cannot say for sure if my first page has a pokemon caught/defeated, but that only appeared when I started up the game. I would assume that would affect the first sweet scent not any subsequent ones.

I'll note the IVs, nature, seed and frames so that I can refer back if needed.

=====

Edit: I did some tests outside Heatrans cave with sweet scenting and got some very bewildering results.

Seed: 8bb0f2d5 (30th May 2067, delay=606)

I sweet scented 3 pokes in a row. These were the results.

Written like this: Method J frame, Actual, PID

1st- 69, 156, 9c3fdff2
2nd- 8, 47, 3703d04a
3rd- 54. 65, b6ec44c9

I'm extremely confused Dx

and now the seed won't come up in the seed->time tool. says it is invalid.

I think you did something in your 3 tests wrong because the first thing you did could be explained. The 3 tests is impossible to happen, especially in that order. Perhaps your 2nd one was first and 3rd second. That would make more sense. 47+7=54

SS once you start the game gets you frame 2, which you got. The next pokemon you SS is +7 of the original frame of the previous pokemon.

 

[oddsok]

I think you did something in your 3 tests wrong because the first thing you did could be explained. The 3 tests is impossible to happen, especially in that order. Perhaps your 2nd one was first and 3rd second. That would make more sense. 47+7=54

SS once you start the game gets you frame 2, which you got. The next pokemon you SS is +7 of the original frame of the previous pokemon.

Yeah, there's obviously something wrong here, but I am positive that I have them in the correct order. I will test again another time.

Just because I'm not sure, is it +7 because of +5 from a previous SS and then another +2 for the current SS?

 

[COKTAL]

Okay, I've started to work on getting a bold Cresselia and was hoping someone could help make sure my math is right. The frame is 474, and since it starts out at 5, I should walk 128 steps w/ 5 pokemon on my party to move the frame up to 10. So 474-10=464/2= 232 Flips, correct? Also, I've already attempted a few times, but when I try to use my step counter for the 128 steps, I'll reset it, and then once i take a step, it goes back to where I had reset it from (1,000 something). Is that normal? The year is set to 2028, btw.
EDIT: Also, there aren't any runners out yet (if that means actually running. Mesprit is still in the cave if it means still un-caught).

 

[TDS]

When you save on the coin flip app, does it always start the game with tails?

 

[Pidge]

When you save on the coin flip app, does it always start the game with tails?

Nope, mine is saved on heads right now.

 

[LightningFusion]

When you save on the coin flip app, does it always start the game with tails?

It always starts with heads, which is magikarp.

 

[Syberia]

What it's saved on doesn't matter, you only start counting when you flip the first coin. For egg purposes, it doesn't even use up an RNG call if you switch to the coin flip app without actually flipping it.

 

[Dizzybanana21x]

Are you generating as method J? Sounds like perhaps you didn't do that...

No, i think I the problem was the NPCs. I am not sure. I moved to a different route where there were no NPCs and it worked fine.

 

[Sephirona]

A few questions for you all... I'm just about ready to get started.

1. Are most of you getting Pokémon with weird years or are you able to manipulate your delay (I suppose by using the information in this post, which looks like it requires timing very similar to what is needed when abusing Emerald's RNG) in order to get a reasonable year?

2. Does anyone think that Nintendo would have a problem with a Pokémon that is "from the past/future" if they ran across it while hack-checking your game/team?

3. Is there no way to verify that you've gotten the correct target time / delay via coin flip (or any other way, for that matter, before catching your Pokémon) if you're dealing with wild Pokémon instead of eggs?

4. I have not released any roaming Pokémon (traded for Mesprit's dex entry :D). Does this mean that when I begin the game, my frame is set at 0, 1, or what? I plan on using Sweet Scent, and I see that using it in the grass advances the seed by 1... how do I account for this? I'm a bit confused about the differences between advancing the seed and advancing the frame.

5. How exactly do Synchronize and Everstones affect the D/P/Pt RNG?

Thanks!

Hey :> Oddsok already did a fine job answering your questions, so I'm just adding a few extra bits. The guide for delays is, like Oddsok mentioned, meant for people who are already familiar with resetting normally for delays - it's for personal aesthetics, as I wrote. I'd also agree that I don't think they could do anything about a Pokemon being caught a few decades from now, so if you're really not a stickler for that then it shouldn't matter. It's just an option :> It's really new anyway, I don't know how many other people have gone exactly by that method. *_*;

If you have your target initial seed, you can plug that into the RNG Reporter to generate coin flips down the column, and if 10+ flips down that column match, you'd know you hit your delay.

Not one D:
I'll be trying some of that Sweet Scenting today, too :x I want my shiny zubat.

 

[LightningFusion]

A few questions for you all... I'm just about ready to get started.

1. Are most of you getting Pokémon with weird years or are you able to manipulate your delay (I suppose by using the information in this post, which looks like it requires timing very similar to what is needed when abusing Emerald's RNG) in order to get a reasonable year?

2. Does anyone think that Nintendo would have a problem with a Pokémon that is "from the past/future" if they ran across it while hack-checking your game/team?

3. Is there no way to verify that you've gotten the correct target time / delay via coin flip (or any other way, for that matter, before catching your Pokémon) if you're dealing with wild Pokémon instead of eggs?

4. I have not released any roaming Pokémon (traded for Mesprit's dex entry :D). Does this mean that when I begin the game, my frame is set at 0, 1, or what? I plan on using Sweet Scent, and I see that using it in the grass advances the seed by 1... how do I account for this? I'm a bit confused about the differences between advancing the seed and advancing the frame.

5. How exactly do Synchronize and Everstones affect the D/P/Pt RNG?

Thanks!

2. At the VGC, Tyler who made top 16 used my Cresselia with a futuristic date and he was fine.

5. Everstones are unkown sorta. There is no point in finding out, if we know how to do eggs, we can choose what egg we what and what nature.

Synchronizers affect method J, not method 1. When generating method J lists, there is a syncher option.

 

[COKTAL]

Okay, I've got a quick question about when using the coin flip to make sure you hit the right delay/time/etc. Do you start w/ frame one, even if your right infront of one of the pokemon such as Mesprit or Cresselia, or whatever frame they start on (like Cresselia is 5)?

 

[LightningFusion]

Okay, I've got a quick question about when using the coin flip to make sure you hit the right delay/time/etc. Do you start w/ frame one, even if your right infront of one of the pokemon such as Mesprit or Cresselia, or whatever frame they start on (like Cresselia is 5)?

Yes still from frame 1. The coin flips is based on the the egg RNG and always starts at frame 1. Standing in front of a pokemon wouldn't affect it anyways, because it doesn't advance until you talk to it, which wouldn't affect the coin flips anyways.