Move Discussion: Magic Coat

[xc_hawk]

I'm thinking of trying out that absol in UU, as I've had mixed results with it as a starter in OU. While it does a great job against sleep starters and baton pass teams (it stops them cold), he has trouble against starters simply aimed at getting a hit off. Bottom line is that absol just can't take a hit well. (I'll try out pory 2 later) He also has to choose between being walled by either ttar or skarmory/forry.

 

[ODDish]

Pinsir, Hitmonchan, Hitmontop, Primeape and Hitmonlee are all fairly common leads in UU at the moment (at least on Shoddy Battle) so be careful *edit* ... Swellow too.

 

[CZ]

Magic Coat is very fun to use, but it is sorta situational. It is a nice surprise to bounce back a Toxic against a bulky water, or a Thunder Wave from Togekiss, but it is too situational IMO to be used very often

 

[xc_hawk]

Pinsir, Hitmonchan, Hitmontop, Primeape and Hitmonlee are all fairly common leads in UU at the moment (at least on Shoddy Battle) so be careful *edit* ... Swellow too.

I'll take that into consideration oddish, seems you're one of the most experienced UU players here. (wait, swellow's UU? What the hell?)

 

[ODDish]

(wait, swellow's UU? What the hell?)

Fraid so ... it was decided that because most Swellow's use Toxic Orb/Flame Orb - and so are slowly killing themselves - and there are a number of phyiscal walls that stop it dead, it wasn't too overpowering for the UU metagame.

It's the reason I always carry Probopass or Aggron on my UU team.

 

[oPlaiD]

It sounds like it would have the most potential as a move for a lead Pokemon, since there is a higher percentage of status moves in that spot, but it doesn't look like too many Pokes suited for leading get the move.

 

[Ulevo]

I had a player catch me off guard with Magic Coat on Z a little while ago as a starter. Nearly cost me the game. The only problem with using Z as a Coat starter is that most will assume it's Scarfed, and switch out there Breloom/Gengar/Crobat, etc.

 

[ThaPhantom07]

What set did you use? Sounds interesting.

I was running Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Recover, and Magic Coat w/ Lum Berry. I had a lot of success with Magic Coat mostly because nobody knew what it did. They would Hypnosis and miss and then try to Hypnosis me again. Magic Coat is butter against Breloom and Yanmega though. Seriously, at least try it with P2 since he is the bulkiest one who can learn it. You may like it.

 

[obi]

Heh, I forgot about that part of it. Magic Coating Hypnosis only has a 36% chance to status the user of Hypnosis, because it has to "hit" the Magic Coater so it can be reflected, then it has to hit again. You shouldn't base your strategy around idiots ("If they don't know what this move does, they'll stay in and keep using Hypnosis!").

 

[Havak]

Too situational IMO. Leech Seed isn't that common, and only a select few learn Magic Coat.

Have to agree with this statement.. You're hardly going to see much use from Magic Coat if you use it, when you can just pick a better move to deal with the problem.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Heh, I forgot about that part of it. Magic Coating Hypnosis only has a 36% chance to status the user of Hypnosis, because it has to "hit" the Magic Coater so it can be reflected, then it has to hit again. You shouldn't base your strategy around idiots ("If they don't know what this move does, they'll stay in and keep using Hypnosis!").

I think that you're working off Hypnosis's old accuracy of 60% to obtain 36%. Now that Hypnosis is 70% accurate, the chance of Hypnosis hitting twice in a row would be 49%. However, this is irrelevant because moves reflected by Magic Coat only make one accuracy check, not two.

I have no idea whose accuracy and evasion modifiers are used to conduct the single accuracy check, but if I had to guess, my money's on the user of Magic Coat using the reflected move against the user of Hypnosis (or other status move) because the message displayed during a missed Hypnosis is, "PORYGON2's attack missed!" not, "GENGAR's attack missed!"

My tests were done in-game, of course. I make no guarantees about how it works on Shoddy.

EDIT: On a personal note, as a user of Magic Coat, I find that my opponent will often attempt to status me again after a miss (even if they know what the move does), thinking that I'll use a different move. Then it all comes down to good old-fashioned prediction. And really, isn't that what Pokémon's all about?

Masked Nitpicker...away!

 

[Steinhauser]

I had some success with a Magic Coat-Counter Grumpig lead.

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Thick Fat
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
-Magic Coat
-Counter
-Protect/Calm Mind
-Mirror Coat/Calm Mind

Protect is useful when you don't feel like predicting whether a Gengar or Yanma is going to hypnosis you or SE attack you. It works well with Mirror Coat, leaving you ready for anything except SR or Sub.

The EVs are designed to let her survive at least one non-CB, STAB, SE hit from the strongest openers on either side (Tar's Crunch, Weavile's N-Slash, Gengar's S-Ball). Alternatively, put some EVs into SpDef and CM up if you get faced with a special attacker, or Magic Coat/Counter for everything else. Does especially well vs Nape leads, whose STABs are both resisted, and lets you do something threatening if you manage to sleep something.

Of course, you can always put the standard support moves (Light Screen, Trick Room, Twave, Taunt, etc) in the last two spaces.

Besides on a lead, though, Magic Coat isn't nearly as useful.

 

[obi]

I think that you're working off Hypnosis's old accuracy of 60% to obtain 36%. Now that Hypnosis is 70% accurate, the chance of Hypnosis hitting twice in a row would be 49%. However, this is irrelevant because moves reflected by Magic Coat only make one accuracy check, not two.

I have no idea whose accuracy and evasion modifiers are used to conduct the single accuracy check, but if I had to guess, my money's on the user of Magic Coat using the reflected move against the user of Hypnosis (or other status move) because the message displayed during a missed Hypnosis is, "PORYGON2's attack missed!" not, "GENGAR's attack missed!"

My tests were done in-game, of course. I make no guarantees about how it works on Shoddy.

EDIT: On a personal note, as a user of Magic Coat, I find that my opponent will often attempt to status me again after a miss (even if they know what the move does), thinking that I'll use a different move. Then it all comes down to good old-fashioned prediction. And really, isn't that what Pokémon's all about?

Masked Nitpicker...away!

Well, that dramatically improves the move. I wonder if this is a change in DP (similar to how Mirror Move now works on all moves that target the user, rather than all moves that hit the user like in ADV) or if my understanding of ADV mechanics is off.

 

[xc_hawk]

Well this thread turned out a whole lot better than i thought it would. Considering that it seems magic coat would be best used as a sleep start ercounter, is there any sort of list for common OU/BL/UU sleepers?
I know of Gengar, Yanmega, Persian, Crobat, Breloom, and Scarf Roserade (although natural cure negates the sleep)

 

[ODDish]

There's also the other, much fatter, UU kitty Purugly and lets not forget the pretty fire unicorn (Rapidash), the fire fox (Ninetales), and the annoying tumbleweed (Jumpluff).


There are also a huge number of slower sleeper ... are you interested in those too?

 

[Ferdie]

Yeah, Magic Coat Absol is nice starter. My set is:

Absol @ Focus Sash
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / ??
- Sword Dance
- Magic Coat
- Sucker Punch
- Filler (I would use Rock Smash)

Kill many starters in UU. Reflect Persian's hypnosis back. You also get guarantee SD and after one SD you ohko Hitmonlee, Swellow and many others with Sucker Punch.