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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
- Start date
So Volkner and Cyrus,
- Are from Sunnyshore city
- Are adept with machinery.
- Are (mostly) stoic
- And look sort of alike
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Since there's a NPC that actually talks about the missteps in raising Cyrus I do feel like they were related they'd probably do a bit more to poitn to it. Like "how we raised Volkner" or even just "if he could only have been more like Volkner"
If anything they're probably meant to be a parallel? Cyrus is nihilistic and works to redo the entire world by literally remaking it, Volkner is just tired but works to better his little corner of the world.
but more likely I think it might just be a coincidence. Even Agatha/Bertha, the two clearly connected characters that the games do NOTHING WITH EVER, had a shoutout in gen 5 drawing the connection between them. Volkner & Cyrus never do...anywhere.
If anything they're probably meant to be a parallel? Cyrus is nihilistic and works to redo the entire world by literally remaking it, Volkner is just tired but works to better his little corner of the world.
but more likely I think it might just be a coincidence. Even Agatha/Bertha, the two clearly connected characters that the games do NOTHING WITH EVER, had a shoutout in gen 5 drawing the connection between them. Volkner & Cyrus never do...anywhere.
I took a look at the move list, and I don't believe that there are any other usable moves in the game that function similar to Mat Block
(usable in game, but not available to learn in game). I do think it is similar to what R_N mentioned that these move remain in the game because the Pokémon who's signature move it is may be added back into the games in the future, and Mat Block was overlooked and not given the same treatment as Powder and Psycho Boost (moves unusable, but keep their descriptions).
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Considering the recent beta leaks this is probably just a relic of Greninja being planned to appear at some point, presumably before they decided to go all-in with Dexit and axe it.
Honestly why Greninja wasn't in the base game nor added in the DLC despite being such an insanely popular Pokemon and half-implemented at some point could be on its own convo on this very thread. In fact, why not? Why was Gren excluded with all that considered
Honestly why Greninja wasn't in the base game nor added in the DLC despite being such an insanely popular Pokemon and half-implemented at some point could be on its own convo on this very thread. In fact, why not? Why was Gren excluded with all that considered
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That has been bothering me ever since we got the initial Galar Dex. Look, regardless of whatever problems they could have had in the beta, it's puzzling that the Pokémon that won the worldwide popularity poll isn't in the game, even after the DLCs.
Unless, of course, that whatever problems they had with Greninja's model were never solved...
The general thoughts about what the next game of the generation might be. Sinnoh Remakes is the most popular theory by far even before some of the thoughts on what pokemon not in the game yet, but Lets Go Johto gets floated a bit.
So I'm just making a joke based on Greninja, the most popular pokemon, still not being in the game is clearly leading to a Z Version as the next game
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Honestly the answer is probably just that GF didnt wanna bother to simultaneously implement the relatively far far far less popular Delphox and Chesnaught. I mean the former line has a fanbase I think but oof @ Chesnaught being one of 2 starters alongside the Emboar line to have none of its members make their regions' top 30 in POTY
I still love ya drill sargeant hedgehog, but clearly I'm in a minority
I still love ya drill sargeant hedgehog, but clearly I'm in a minority
They made Charmander obtainable and Gigantamaxable in the base game while Bulbasaur and Squirtle were HOME and Raid Event-only and did not have a Gigantamax form until the Isle of Armor.
Something similar could have been done with Greninja... but hey, Game Freak logic.
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Maybe they couldn't decide whether to include Ash-Greninja or not. If they did include it, without Mega Pokemon to balance it out it would be super OP. But if they didn't include it, there would be complaints about the lack of it with people arguing its gimmick isn't attached to Mega Evolution so should be exempt. Not wanting to open that can of worms, they decided just to cut Greninja entirely, maybe let it sit out until a gen where they bring back Mega Evos or an equal mechanic which wouldn't make Battle Bond too powerful.
Ash-Greninja, the form outright banned from all but casual play, was probably not a factor in not bringing Greninja back
I think that GF probably did not want to overshadow the new starters (more than they already have) by including Greninja. The Charmander line is already featured heavily in the base game, and introducing more starters than the already available Kanto and Alola starters would would make the new starters seem less important. Greninja probably would have been overkill to include, making it more centered on the old fan favorites than the new pokemon.
I was more focusing on the starters available in the base game, the Hoenn starters are their own question really. These starters are a weird addition because they are considered foreign Pokémon, with the only other non legendary foreign pokemon being the Alola starters. They are only accessible by chance through the max lair which adds to the oddness, as opposed to in IoA where you can be gifted an Alola starter.
These say hi.
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Crown Tundra in general has a surprising amount of Hoenn fanservice, really. Aside from the starters you got by far the most Hoenn mons introduced between the 2 DLCs as well as the new Regis
Y'know, let's expand the topic a bit: Why hasn't GF included all the starters too? They're just as if not more iconic to their respective generations as the legendaries and way less numerous
Y'know, let's expand the topic a bit: Why hasn't GF included all the starters too? They're just as if not more iconic to their respective generations as the legendaries and way less numerous
I assume they just want starters to market for the next set of games. Them and I guess the mythicals will help buoy the more....lackluster remaining Pokemon.
Why they didn't just save the Hoenn starters for the next games too? Who knows, maybe they just liked the 4/4 split.
My best guess on why certain pokemon are in the games and others are gone, based on the demo leaks, the DLC content, and various posts is that they simply ran out of time, resources, and honestly, willpower.
We saw that the models in the beta were very buggy (especially Greninja) and that they probably cut content (Dynamax Pokemon on the bridge) from the base game. So, initially, GF probably focused on making the main parts of the game work as much as they could as well as getting all the new Pokemon models done (not to mention all the Dynamax/Gmax models). Then they probably focused on the Pokemon that they wanted to make native to the Galar region. And that's the base game.
For the DLC, GF announced that a second team was in charge of development, with the main team moving on to the next set of games, as is typical of Pokemon development at this point. We have no idea how much time, experienced staff, and funding the second team was given to develop the DLC. The DLC looks better than the base game and plays better, but if that was their main focus than its obvious that something like Pokemon availability was going to take a backseat beyond what was deemed absolutely necessary. I think it's also fair to consider things such as the pandemic, the move to a new building, Town development, and the meltdown response to Dexit also had an effect on development and morale at GF.
So, in conclusion, I think that certain mons were so buggy in one aspect or another that, unless they were absolutely necessary, they got cut in development by a small team trying to juggle too many things at once in order to maximize another part of the game. Ditto for certain moves that seem to be gone outside of the balance reasoning. You can draw your own conclusions about whether GF needs to change its development cycle, the game value compared to the price tag, why certain garbage mons made it when X didn't, etc..
We saw that the models in the beta were very buggy (especially Greninja) and that they probably cut content (Dynamax Pokemon on the bridge) from the base game. So, initially, GF probably focused on making the main parts of the game work as much as they could as well as getting all the new Pokemon models done (not to mention all the Dynamax/Gmax models). Then they probably focused on the Pokemon that they wanted to make native to the Galar region. And that's the base game.
For the DLC, GF announced that a second team was in charge of development, with the main team moving on to the next set of games, as is typical of Pokemon development at this point. We have no idea how much time, experienced staff, and funding the second team was given to develop the DLC. The DLC looks better than the base game and plays better, but if that was their main focus than its obvious that something like Pokemon availability was going to take a backseat beyond what was deemed absolutely necessary. I think it's also fair to consider things such as the pandemic, the move to a new building, Town development, and the meltdown response to Dexit also had an effect on development and morale at GF.
So, in conclusion, I think that certain mons were so buggy in one aspect or another that, unless they were absolutely necessary, they got cut in development by a small team trying to juggle too many things at once in order to maximize another part of the game. Ditto for certain moves that seem to be gone outside of the balance reasoning. You can draw your own conclusions about whether GF needs to change its development cycle, the game value compared to the price tag, why certain garbage mons made it when X didn't, etc..
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Not sure if this is quite the right thread but I was thinking about Phione earlier and the endless debate over whether it's a mythical Pokemon.
Back when Diamond and Pearl were released, there was a lot of debate over whether Phione, Manaphy's odd little sort-of child, was supposed to be a mythical Pokemon or not. Up until that point the criteria for being a mythical was more or less straightforward (even though the distinction wasn't formally made until later) - there had only been four* mythicals before Gen IV, all of which kept to fairly rigid rules (a BST of 600, not catchable in-game).
The four new mythicals in Gen IV kept more or less to this standard, although Arceus did have base stats exceeding the previous definition. But no-one knew what to make of Phione. Stat-wise it wasn't super, players could hatch an infinite number of them from eggs, and it's literally never mentioned in any main series game. It also, um, doesn't have any real myth or lore associated with it beyond "it's sort of like Manaphy but not really".
But despite this all evidence points to it being mythical. It's never been available normally (except in My Pokemon Ranch in which players can trade for it), is never required to complete the Pokedex, and despite it being no stronger than Glalie, no battle facility allows the player to use it. Official sources were confused, with Pokemon.com once answering "yes" to the question before hastily deleting the answer, and various guidebooks stating alternately that it was and that it wasn't.
However, if it were added to the series today, I don't think anyone would be in any doubt as to what Phione is meant to be. Until Gen VII, the rules for being a legendary Pokemon were mostly quite easily defined. They're strong, not obtainable through ordinary means, almost always unique, and are always single-stage even if capable of changing form (Professor Rowan even states in DPP that "legendary Pokemon don't evolve"). Now the rules have been thoroughly upended; we have legendaries and mythicals which can evolve, are demonstrably not unique, and are far weaker than their legendary status should imply. Phione was simply ahead of its time, and the only reason there was doubt was that it was the first to break the established rules.
I'm personally completely convinced that Phione is a mythical, but does anyone think differently?
*Yes, Ho-oh and Lugia were treated in the same way as mythicals in Gen III, even though they're regular legends, but that was only for those specific games since they were locked behind events and it would have been unfair otherwise (side note: it's kind of funny how Gen III did that given how it would be unthinkable nowadays to not be able to catch old legendaries in new games).
Back when Diamond and Pearl were released, there was a lot of debate over whether Phione, Manaphy's odd little sort-of child, was supposed to be a mythical Pokemon or not. Up until that point the criteria for being a mythical was more or less straightforward (even though the distinction wasn't formally made until later) - there had only been four* mythicals before Gen IV, all of which kept to fairly rigid rules (a BST of 600, not catchable in-game).
The four new mythicals in Gen IV kept more or less to this standard, although Arceus did have base stats exceeding the previous definition. But no-one knew what to make of Phione. Stat-wise it wasn't super, players could hatch an infinite number of them from eggs, and it's literally never mentioned in any main series game. It also, um, doesn't have any real myth or lore associated with it beyond "it's sort of like Manaphy but not really".
But despite this all evidence points to it being mythical. It's never been available normally (except in My Pokemon Ranch in which players can trade for it), is never required to complete the Pokedex, and despite it being no stronger than Glalie, no battle facility allows the player to use it. Official sources were confused, with Pokemon.com once answering "yes" to the question before hastily deleting the answer, and various guidebooks stating alternately that it was and that it wasn't.
However, if it were added to the series today, I don't think anyone would be in any doubt as to what Phione is meant to be. Until Gen VII, the rules for being a legendary Pokemon were mostly quite easily defined. They're strong, not obtainable through ordinary means, almost always unique, and are always single-stage even if capable of changing form (Professor Rowan even states in DPP that "legendary Pokemon don't evolve"). Now the rules have been thoroughly upended; we have legendaries and mythicals which can evolve, are demonstrably not unique, and are far weaker than their legendary status should imply. Phione was simply ahead of its time, and the only reason there was doubt was that it was the first to break the established rules.
I'm personally completely convinced that Phione is a mythical, but does anyone think differently?
*Yes, Ho-oh and Lugia were treated in the same way as mythicals in Gen III, even though they're regular legends, but that was only for those specific games since they were locked behind events and it would have been unfair otherwise (side note: it's kind of funny how Gen III did that given how it would be unthinkable nowadays to not be able to catch old legendaries in new games).
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Ive always seen Phione as mythical. The debate always seemed silly, even at the time. All the weird back and forth from official English sources also seemed silly. Kind of wonder if some of that stemmed from English lumping mythics and legends together while they were always separated in Japan.
Carbink and Diancie are in a similar boat, with Carbink turning into Diancie under certain conditions according to the dex, but never in gameplay.
The weirdest thing about Phione is the fact that Manaphy can breed for it but this connection is never mentioned or acknowledged at all
Phione has 3 dex entries and all of them just deal with it lives in warm seas (to contrast Manaphy which lives in cold seas) and has a floatation sack. There's no NPC that talks about the connection. I a mpretty sure even the anime has it go unmentioned. I think Mystery Dungeon plays up the relation a little but still doesnt like...talk about it at all and might have been just because hey they're related in the games so....
Related to this: I remain resolute in my conspiracy that Phione was made as an easter egg and nothing more. Manaphy's shtick was hatching from an egg, so they figured people would try breeding it and obviously they didn't want infinite manaphy, so rather than just not letting it breed they made Phione aka Manaphy-lite as a joke.
Phione itself isn't event exclusive, it just requires an event Pokemon to access it.
And of course this line of thought takes away Deoxys' and Keldeo's mythical status and would mean that from BW1 until the release of BW2 Zoroark (and Zorua) were mythical since they also required an event exclusive Pokemon to be obtained.