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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Oriolous said:
We know the girl in BW2 was killed by Darkrai, but why?
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Source on this? It's never outright stated that Darkrai killed her, only that she had nightmares before she died. which could have been of something completely unrelated. We now the Lunar Wing soothes nightmares, but it's never stated that Darkrai is the only bringer of bad dreams, never mind that it's lethal. For all we know, she was mortally ill or injured, and Darkrai was trying to keep her alive. The fact that she even obtained the Lunar Wing seems to indicate that repelling Darkrai (and/or the nightmares) with it didn't help her, since she did die after all. Her dialogue about "Returning [the Lunar Wing] to [Cresselia] myself" suggests that she obtained the Lunar Wing from Cresselia, which did squat all to keep her alive. It might have removed the nightmares, but her illness/injuries killed her all the same. Had Darkrai been the cause of her woes, she would have been healed, as demonstrated by the boy in Canalave City. I take all that as evidence that whatever it was that killed her, Darkrai was not the cause of it. It might have been involved in some fashion, but blaming her death on Darkrai is jumping to conclusions in my opinion.

Also, the girl apparently died before Marvelous Bridge was built.
 
Codraroll said:
Source on this? It's never outright stated that Darkrai killed her, only that she had nightmares before she died. which could have been of something completely unrelated. We now the Lunar Wing soothes nightmares, but it's never stated that Darkrai is the only bringer of bad dreams, never mind that it's lethal. For all we know, she was mortally ill or injured, and Darkrai was trying to keep her alive. The fact that she even obtained the Lunar Wing seems to indicate that repelling Darkrai (and/or the nightmares) with it didn't help her, since she did die after all. Her dialogue about "Returning [the Lunar Wing] to [Cresselia] myself" suggests that she obtained the Lunar Wing from Cresselia, which did squat all to keep her alive. It might have removed the nightmares, but her illness/injuries killed her all the same. Had Darkrai been the cause of her woes, she would have been healed, as demonstrated by the boy in Canalave City. I take all that as evidence that whatever it was that killed her, Darkrai was not the cause of it. It might have been involved in some fashion, but blaming her death on Darkrai is jumping to conclusions in my opinion.

Also, the girl apparently died before Marvelous Bridge was built.
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The girl herself states that it was Darkrai. She says this before she gives you the Lunar Wing, and then passes on.
 
Oriolous said:
The girl herself states that it was Darkrai. She says this before she gives you the Lunar Wing, and then passes on.
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Nope. The girl's dialogue is as follows:
First encounter –
"An everlasting dark dream...
An endless dream of darkness...
Dad, Mom, Abra...
Where are you...?"
Second encounter –
"In the dark dream...
I heard my dad’s voice...
Forget about the Lunar Wing...
Please stay here with me..."
Third encounter –
"Oh... The Lunar Wing...
I can’t take it now...
But it’ll be OK...
Please return the wing to the Pokémon...
I was waiting on the bridge so I could return it myself..."

You could make a case that it is referencing Darkrai, but it is never explicitly stated.

Another culprit for the initial problem could be Drowzee or Hypno. In the haunted abandoned house, you find a bookcase with books on Cresselia, Darkrai, and three about Drowzee, Hypno, and the Forewarn ability (that the Drowzee line gets). The Hypno book specifically references a Hypno hypnotizing and kidnapping children. Now it could just be sleep research done by the father in an attempt to awaken his daughter, but it does seem strange that three of the books are on the Drowzee line.

There's also another book on the Dream Eater move, just FYI.
 
stage7_4 said:
You could make a case that it is referencing Darkrai, but it is never explicitly stated.

Another culprit for the initial problem could be Drowzee or Hypno. In the haunted abandoned house, you find a bookcase with books on Cresselia, Darkrai, and three about Drowzee, Hypno, and the Forewarn ability (that the Drowzee line gets). The Hypno book specifically references a Hypno hypnotizing and kidnapping children. Now it could just be sleep research done by the father in an attempt to awaken his daughter, but it does seem strange that three of the books are on the Drowzee line.

There's also another book on the Dream Eater move, just FYI.
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It could be that the girls parents didn't know what was causing the nightmares and were looking to see what could've caused it. They probably thought it could have been a Drowzee or Hypno based on the fact they eat dreams and are creepy as fuck, but if they tried to get a Lunar Wing they clearly thought it was something more than that.
 
stage7_4 said:
Another culprit for the initial problem could be Drowzee or Hypno. In the haunted abandoned house, you find a bookcase with books on Cresselia, Darkrai, and three about Drowzee, Hypno, and the Forewarn ability (that the Drowzee line gets). The Hypno book specifically references a Hypno hypnotizing and kidnapping children. Now it could just be sleep research done by the father in an attempt to awaken his daughter, but it does seem strange that three of the books are on the Drowzee line.
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While the Drowzee family gets Forewarn, that's not why it's there. Forewarn's Japanese name is "Prophetic Dream". I don't think I need to go on from there. Though it is odd that's there though. Like aside from that and Cresselia, all these research books are about nightmares and negative things concerning dreams. Like maybe instead of Forewarn they could have included the move "Nightmare".

But Codraroll and stage7_4 are right, Darkrai is not specifically blamed. Though with that said, it was never said Darkrai was to blame for Eldritch's son. The son only says "Dar... Dark.. Is watching me..." and never says anything about the incident again. Who's to say "Dark" is specifically referring to Darkrai? Maybe he meant if was a "dark presence" was watching him, or maybe he was just saying it was dark and the "is watching me" part is unrelated (unless the Japanese version was more specific).

This is a semantic argument; it's Darkrai. Darkrai put the girl (and Eldritch's son) into an endless nightmare (a thing only it can do, Hypno would have kidnapped her also). Yes, the Lunar Wing is a general nightmare curer, but as its from the counterpart of Darkrai its specifically able to awake someone from Darkrai's eternal nightmares.

Maybe the reason there were books on Drowzee and Hypno is because originally the girl's parents tried waking her up by having them use Dream Eater to eat her dreams (heck, maybe THAT'S why she was slowly wasting away, her parents made a rash decision). When that didn't work they did more research and learned of the Forewarn Ability which the Drowzee family luckily had. Using that they figured out what was going on, researched Darkrai, that led to Cresselia, and that led to the Lunar Wing (note no where its mentioned about the Lunar Wing yet they seemed to know that's what they needed to get). As for why she didn't wake up even though the Lunar Wing at least got to the house, as I said it could have been too late. The parents got the Lunar Wing, rushed to her bedside, but by the time they got there she was gone. Finally I think she did play on the Marvelous Bridge because the old woman you speak to mentions her Abra. Her ghost does not have Abra with her, so how would they known that unless, when was alive, she did play with her Abra on the bridge.

Look, I can already tell we're not going to reach a conclusions as it's logistical proof vs. rational deduction. So how about we move to another but related Mystery:

This is the Lunar Wing:
Key_Lunar_Wing_Sprite.png

This is Cresselia (and its Shiny):
250px-488Cresselia.png
Spr_5b_488_s.png

So... where is their lime green coloring on Cresselia?
 
It doesn't have it, because you took it. You thief!

But in all honestly, that is pretty weird. Maybe Cresselia feathers have copper elements that once removed from the body oxidize and turn greenish?

...nah that can't be it.
 
My reasoning in the Marvelous Ghost Girl story:

What happened first was that the girl got sick, was injured or some combination of those. The riversides are steep cliffs, and river water in densely populated areas tend not to be good to swim in (especially if you've got a wound somewhere, or the currents could drag you under), so it could have happened while she was playing near the river. Heck, she could have fallen off the bridge herself (if the Marvelous Bridge replaced a previous one). Through illness, infections or exhaustion, she falls into a troubled sleep full of nightmares.
Her father believes that the nightmares are the cause of her problems rather than a symptom, thinking that she is "haunted" in her sleep by Pokémon. For all we know, she could be beyond the help of medicine at this point, and he is grasping at straws. He combs through literature on nightmare-inducing Pokémon, eventually learning of the Lunar Wing. He manages to find Cresselia and obtain/borrow a Lunar Wing, and takes it to the girl, hoping it will cure her.

However, it doesn't help. The Lunar Wing doesn't improve her situation, and she passes away. Presumably she's cured of the nightmares, but her condition is beyond any help. She recognizes Cresselia's act of kindness, though, and stays behind as a ghost until she can give the Lunar Wing back.
 
Question: why can't it just be Darkrai is evil? I personally like this explanation the best (I am a huge horror fan, after all). Of course, I always go for "horrifying supernatural" since it is WAY more fun.
 
Vader_the_White said:
Question: why can't it just be Darkrai is evil? I personally like this explanation the best (I am a huge horror fan, after all). Of course, I always go for "horrifying supernatural" since it is WAY more fun.
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Because it goes against how Darkrai has been portrayed thus far in the main game canon.

But then again, there are multiple Darkrai and it could just be this one was evil.
 
Wanna weigh in since Darkrai has always been a favorite mon of mine for both design and its characterizations (MD Darkrai is one of my favorite fictional villains)

A lot of material raises the idea that Darkrai's Nightmare powers are a defense mechanism, whether biological or completely uncontrollable. Every Pokedex entry states something to the effect of "it makes people see nightmares", even when they make the point that it's not malicious. A lot of entries also make the point that it doesn't just do this to stop attacks, but to outright "chase people and Pokemon from its territory", meaning these obviously shouldn't immobilize the target to the point they're drained dry. So while I doubt there was malicious intent, it seems Darkrai would have had to been aware it caused this, even if it was a spurr of the moment flight-or-flight type of reaction. The girl's dialogue makes it clear from our deduction that the cause was Darkrai, but I don't think it's explicitly clear that she or the others know. Does any in-game lore make it explicit that a Lunar Wing is to prevent Darkrai nightmares, or that it's just a nightmare prevention charm sort of like a dream catcher? A few Pokemon can inflict Nightmare based on learning the move besides Darkrai, so given the mon's rarity and seclusion I think it reasonable to assume it was one of them first for the average Joe.

Here's my theory: The girl was going about her day playing with her Abra and startled a Darkrai, which put her into a nightmare sleep in a reaction. Abra brings her back to her parents with Teleport before Darkrai could undo it (which would let the "scare" set in so she'd leave), and they start trying to find methods to help her. The books include mentions of things like Hypno and Munna not just because they could have potential solutions, but they are also more common sources of the same problem. The Lunar Wing was resorted to when nothing else worked, but by then it was too late. As for the nightmare, I wonder if that's a form of the scares in and of themselves. Imagine being stuck in a dark void and being told by your father, someone who will go to any lengths to protect you, that you should give up on ever getting out of it. It's more a means to scare than a legitimate omen or message by Darkrai. Alternatively, it might just be speaking the hard but objective truth, that she can't just wake and to give up on the Lunar Wing because the odds of finding it in time is slim to none (a point well founded based on her fate), sort of the way a doctor tries to ease a terminally ill patient's last moments rather than get them excited or riled by a 1-in-a-million solution.

It doesn't outright give Darkrai a malicious nature for his actions, but explains how he'd have some kind of interaction or intent in the sequence of events.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
While the Drowzee family gets Forewarn, that's not why it's there. Forewarn's Japanese name is "Prophetic Dream". I don't think I need to go on from there. Though it is odd that's there though. Like aside from that and Cresselia, all these research books are about nightmares and negative things concerning dreams. Like maybe instead of Forewarn they could have included the move "Nightmare".

But Codraroll and stage7_4 are right, Darkrai is not specifically blamed. Though with that said, it was never said Darkrai was to blame for Eldritch's son. The son only says "Dar... Dark.. Is watching me..." and never says anything about the incident again. Who's to say "Dark" is specifically referring to Darkrai? Maybe he meant if was a "dark presence" was watching him, or maybe he was just saying it was dark and the "is watching me" part is unrelated (unless the Japanese version was more specific).

This is a semantic argument; it's Darkrai. Darkrai put the girl (and Eldritch's son) into an endless nightmare (a thing only it can do, Hypno would have kidnapped her also). Yes, the Lunar Wing is a general nightmare curer, but as its from the counterpart of Darkrai its specifically able to awake someone from Darkrai's eternal nightmares.

Maybe the reason there were books on Drowzee and Hypno is because originally the girl's parents tried waking her up by having them use Dream Eater to eat her dreams (heck, maybe THAT'S why she was slowly wasting away, her parents made a rash decision). When that didn't work they did more research and learned of the Forewarn Ability which the Drowzee family luckily had. Using that they figured out what was going on, researched Darkrai, that led to Cresselia, and that led to the Lunar Wing (note no where its mentioned about the Lunar Wing yet they seemed to know that's what they needed to get). As for why she didn't wake up even though the Lunar Wing at least got to the house, as I said it could have been too late. The parents got the Lunar Wing, rushed to her bedside, but by the time they got there she was gone. Finally I think she did play on the Marvelous Bridge because the old woman you speak to mentions her Abra. Her ghost does not have Abra with her, so how would they known that unless, when was alive, she did play with her Abra on the bridge.

Look, I can already tell we're not going to reach a conclusions as it's logistical proof vs. rational deduction. So how about we move to another but related Mystery:

This is the Lunar Wing:
Key_Lunar_Wing_Sprite.png

This is Cresselia (and its Shiny):
250px-488Cresselia.png
Spr_5b_488_s.png

So... where is their lime green coloring on Cresselia?
Click to expand...
I see a new pokemon coming up...

Lunark, the Moon Pheasant pokemon....

Another mystery I never got was how do Milktank and Tauros link in terms of are they related?
 
The_Emperor said:
Another mystery I never got was how do Milktank and Tauros link in terms of are they related?
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I think it's just for convenience. Miltank is an all female species, Tauros is an all male species, and they're both based on the same animal (cattle, males are bulls and females are cows). That said, Miltank and Tauros aren't breeding pairs like Volbeat & Illumise or the Nidorans are. Miltanks will always produce a Miltank while Tauros will only create another Tauros if bred with a Ditto.
 
Norne said:
Never forget the sterile nidoqueen.
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Oh, that's a simple mystery: it's a small mistake which for some stupid reason GF chooses to continue to do. It was funny when it happened, a bit funny yet odd when you kept it in Gen III, though by now the joke is no longer funny. Nidoran (f), the basic stage of the family, can breed, and its technically a child if we take a Pokemon evolution family as a pseudo form a maturity. So the CHILD can breed, but not the teenager or adult? And this mistake stands out even more due to it having a male counterpart (which are official breeding pairs as Nidoran (f) can create Nidoran (m)) who are capable of breeding just fine. And I doubt it's a complicated change to do nor would it affect anything because, once again, Nidoran (f) can breed.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Oh, that's a simple mystery: it's a small mistake which for some stupid reason GF chooses to continue to do. It was funny when it happened, a bit funny yet odd when you kept it in Gen III, though by now the joke is no longer funny. Nidoran (f), the basic stage of the family, can breed, and its technically a child if we take a Pokemon evolution family as a pseudo form a maturity. So the CHILD can breed, but not the teenager or adult? And this mistake stands out even more due to it having a male counterpart (which are official breeding pairs as Nidoran (f) can create Nidoran (m)) who are capable of breeding just fine. And I doubt it's a complicated change to do nor would it affect anything because, once again, Nidoran (f) can breed.
Click to expand...

I agree that it was probably just some dumb mistake at first, but I think the reason they didn't fix it is because it was kinda grandfathered in. And, with a few notable exceptions, Nintendo usually dosent go back and change stuff minor like this.
 
Might have been mentioned already, but both Typhlosion and Entei are the Volcano Pokemon and neither learn Earth Power. Entei can't learn Earthquake but Bunnelby, Chansey, Spheal, Pineco, Mantyke, and Shuckle can.
 
Celever said:
I've just found the answer to one of the biggest mysteries in Pokémon: Why and how is Pikachu now far skinnier than it was back in Generation I?

Looks like Machamp put it on a training regime. Yes, that site is somehow official!
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Wow, they really expanded the site! They even got a sponsorship with a real life gym, have exercise tutorial, and made a short manga (plus a bunch of other amusing images and walls of text I can't read). Too bad they're not going to translate any of this. I mean we have plenty of fitness gyms in the US, you can sign a sponsorship with them.

EDIT: Okay, so some of the Japanese text is typed out so I put the url into Google and, sure enough, it can translate the typed text. Mind you its a poor translation but I think I get the jist of it. Maybe tomorrow I'll go through the site and pick out the info we didn't already know.

Though here's one I found right now: Machamp isn't good at delicate jobs and crafts that involve using its fingers.
zukan1-4.png

(While it's a handy Pokemon, it's not a handyman Pokemon)

Gabe said:
Might have been mentioned already, but both Typhlosion and Entei are the Volcano Pokemon and neither learn Earth Power. Entei can't learn Earthquake but Bunnelby, Chansey, Spheal, Pineco, Mantyke, and Shuckle can.
Click to expand...

That more fits in the movepool oddity thread.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Wow, they really expanded the site! They even got a sponsorship with a real life gym, have exercise tutorial, and made a short manga (plus a bunch of other amusing images and walls of text I can't read). Too bad they're not going to translate any of this. I mean we have plenty of fitness gyms in the US, you can sign a sponsorship with them.

EDIT: Okay, so some of the Japanese text is typed out so I put the url into Google and, sure enough, it can translate the typed text. Mind you its a poor translation but I think I get the jist of it. Maybe tomorrow I'll go through the site and pick out the info we didn't already know.

Though here's one I found right now: Machamp isn't good at delicate jobs and crafts that involve using its fingers.
zukan1-4.png

(While it's a handy Pokemon, it's not a handyman Pokemon)



That more fits in the movepool oddity thread.
Click to expand...
I love that Machamp series. It's really funny and builds more in depth characterization of the Machamp family.

I'm trying to read the manga about Machamp wanting to be a police officer.
Parts I like:
Machamp "Oh! The phone is ringing! Must be some desperate citizen" *grabs the phone and breaks it because he's too strong.*
Slowpoke walks into the police station because no one answered the phone.
Slowpoke: Someone stole my stuff.
Machamp: What stuff?
Slowpoke: I ordered ice cream and was holding my spoon for 3 hours, then the ice cream is gone.
Machamp: Well if you didn't eat your ice cream in 3 hours it melts...
They found that Trubbish was stealing from Fennekin's house.
Machoke tried to apply those arm cuffs onto Trubbish, but did it on himself instead.
They found that what Trubbish stole was only just rubbish.
But apparently when they tried capturing Trubbish, Machamp lifted Fennekin's entire house.
So although no one stole any valuable stuff from Fennekin's house, Machamp kinda destroyed her house.

http://www.pokemon.jp/special/kairiky_gym/manga/viewer.html
 
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