SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Speaking of Curse: When a non-Ghost-type Pokémon uses Curse, what does it mean when it lowers its Speed? Does the Pokémon use strong language at the opponent, but it's not directly expressed because these games are rated E for Everyone? (Yes, I know it's a pun that doesn't translate well into English. fite me irl)
I think they just went for the pun, Noroi changes from dulling to cursing if you change a kanji.
 
This is mostly an inconsistency than a mistery, but I noticed something weird with Wishiwashi's Pokedex entries. Namely, what Moon states about its School Form;

"At their appearance, even Gyarados will flee. When they team up to use Water Gun, its power exceeds that of Hydro Pump."

Except it's not (always) the case.

0+ SpA Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 48-57 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
0+ SpA Wishiwashi-School Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 64-76 (18.7 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 123-145 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi-School Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 114-135 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Whoever wrote that entry needs damage calculators.
 
This is mostly an inconsistency than a mistery, but I noticed something weird with Wishiwashi's Pokedex entries. Namely, what Moon states about its School Form;

"At their appearance, even Gyarados will flee. When they team up to use Water Gun, its power exceeds that of Hydro Pump."

Except it's not (always) the case.

0+ SpA Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 48-57 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
0+ SpA Wishiwashi-School Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 64-76 (18.7 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 123-145 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi-School Water Gun vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 114-135 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Whoever wrote that entry needs damage calculators.
Read the bold one more time. It is not saying that it is a one to one ratio an power here, but rather hundreds of Wishiwashi's Water Guns versus on other Pokemon's Hydro Pump. But I would still just chalk this inconsistency up to video game/ story segregation, in other words, it is just the Pokedex being the Pokedex.
 
Why is it that gift Pokemon (starters or just given to you like RBY Lapras) all carry your name as the OT while traded Pokemon doesn't? For that matter, the only Gift Pokemon that doesn't carry your OT I can remember is N's Zorua.

Also, why is Magikarp the only Pokemon on sale and only in Kanto and Unova?
I presume it's because these gift Pokemon are being given to you rather than traded for. The Zorua is special because it was N's, especially to the Team Plasma faction that gives it to you. Or it could be the Pokemon itself that decides if it wants to carry your OT and ID over its previous trainer's if it had one. (N's Pokemon can be captured in B2/W2, but retain his OT and ID, while Korrina's second Lucario bonds with the player and thus is willing to overwrite Korrina's OT and ID because it getting boosted EXP would be even more broken)

As for Magikarp, it's possible that it's the same Magikarp Salesman from Kanto in Unova. Magikarp aren't native to Unova, so he's probably taken his stock along. He's of course a scam artist, tricking gullible trainers into buying a Magikarp from him for 500 pokedollars. (which may explain why only Magikarp, as other Pokemon aren't as common or as pathetically easy to catch for quick turnaround) It's likely that by the time of the Johto and Sinnoh games he's been chased away or trainers are more wary of such a trick, (and Hoenn takes place at the same time as Kanto) but Unova is so distant and isolated that at least a few trainers may fall for the scam, yet don't really mind as they can't catch one in the wild themselves. He's unlikely to make a profit in Kalos or Alola, or maybe he's content to stay in Unova.

Here's a mystery: how does EXP and its various nuances work in terms of within the game? Like, Pokemon that weren't originally owned by the player earn extra, as well as if they hold a Lucky Egg. The boost from Affection could be explained as the Pokemon wanting to work harder for the player or their bond making raising them seem to go a bit faster, but then there's the gen 5/7 EXP mechanics... and the fact EXP Share can share the EXP with Pokemon on the team even if they didn't participate in the battle. (both when it had to be held by a Pokemon and as it is now)

What are your thoughts, people?
 
Here's a mystery: how does EXP and its various nuances work in terms of within the game? Like, Pokemon that weren't originally owned by the player earn extra, as well as if they hold a Lucky Egg. The boost from Affection could be explained as the Pokemon wanting to work harder for the player or their bond making raising them seem to go a bit faster, but then there's the gen 5/7 EXP mechanics... and the fact EXP Share can share the EXP with Pokemon on the team even if they didn't participate in the battle. (both when it had to be held by a Pokemon and as it is now)

What are your thoughts, people?
No comment on the EXP Share but about the EXP curve mechanics - well, think about it this way. If you give a difficult math question for both a maths professor and a high school student to solve, who would benefit more from the experience? Sure, the professor can solve it much easier but that's through years of practice while the student can hone his problem-solving and math skills.
 
Regarding the sale of Magikarp, is the salesman aware that the species can evolve into Gyarados? 500 yen or 5 dollars would be pretty cheap in the short-term, but players can catch them in bulk pretty easily, which may explain why the deal is such a ripoff.
 
The Magikarp deal is mainly a rip off in universe given that they're abundant in Kanto regardless of Gyarados power. It just happens to be of note to us from a gameplay perspective because of either the catch 'em all mentality or the potential early access to Gyarados in Gen 1 original. If the average kid knows someone with a fishing Rod, the deal immediately becomes terrible. Maybe the knowledge of Gyarados plays on how the guy sells them to some people: "This Pokemon evolves into a power behemoth", just conveniently leave out how common they are and how absurd training them is without something like EXP Share or such.
 
The Magikarp deal is mainly a rip off in universe given that they're abundant in Kanto regardless of Gyarados power. It just happens to be of note to us from a gameplay perspective because of either the catch 'em all mentality or the potential early access to Gyarados in Gen 1 original. If the average kid knows someone with a fishing Rod, the deal immediately becomes terrible. Maybe the knowledge of Gyarados plays on how the guy sells them to some people: "This Pokemon evolves into a power behemoth", just conveniently leave out how common they are and how absurd training them is without something like EXP Share or such.
Or the fact is irrelevant given that being a trainer in-universe is apparently very hard, even for adults. Very few people will ever be able to get their Magikarp to evolve, and fewer still may be able to handle Gyarados' tendency to burn everything around it to ash. Not everyone is the prodigy that the player apparently is, after all.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
The Magikarp deal is mainly a rip off in universe given that they're abundant in Kanto regardless of Gyarados power. It just happens to be of note to us from a gameplay perspective because of either the catch 'em all mentality or the potential early access to Gyarados in Gen 1 original. If the average kid knows someone with a fishing Rod, the deal immediately becomes terrible. Maybe the knowledge of Gyarados plays on how the guy sells them to some people: "This Pokemon evolves into a power behemoth", just conveniently leave out how common they are and how absurd training them is without something like EXP Share or such.
He's also not a trainer, just a con artist trying to turn some quick money. Probably has a fishing rod so catches a Magikarp for 200 pokedollars (for the Poke Ball) so makes a 300 pokedollars profit.

As you said, rip off in universe, but for a player who wants an early Gyarados not a bad deal. 500 isn't that much (just sell those Ethers and x battle items you're never going to use :P) and if you didn't choose Blastoise a good Water-type isn't going to become available to you for a while. You get the Magikarp on Route 4 at Level 5 and won't be getting the Old Rod till Vermillion so there's a good possibility it'll either be close to or had evolved by the time you get there. Sure it won't be helpful against the following Gyms, but later Gyms and against the Pokemon League is where it'll become more useful. It all really depends if you want a powerful Water-type early or think you can hold out.

Here's a mystery: how does EXP and its various nuances work in terms of within the game? Like, Pokemon that weren't originally owned by the player earn extra, as well as if they hold a Lucky Egg. The boost from Affection could be explained as the Pokemon wanting to work harder for the player or their bond making raising them seem to go a bit faster, but then there's the gen 5/7 EXP mechanics... and the fact EXP Share can share the EXP with Pokemon on the team even if they didn't participate in the battle. (both when it had to be held by a Pokemon and as it is now)

What are your thoughts, people?
Experience is a meta thing, just a gameplay mechanic to represent your Pokemon is getting stronger from and better at battling.

Why do traded Pokemon get more experience? Because they're bringing along what they learned from their previous trainer so are combining that with your training methods gives them an advantage over a Pokemon you just caught from the wild. Going with Random Passerby's example, let's say you're a math tutor and are teaching two students. One is a new student who never had a tutor before while the other previously has tutors. The one who had tutors before would probably learn faster/better while the new student needs some adjusting time.

The Lucky Egg is like a good luck charm or comforting device, it makes the Pokemon holding it calmer/happier so is able to enjoy itself more thus take in more of what its learning. Going back to my above example, the new student needs adjusting time as they may feel nervous. Though if they have something that brings them comfort they'd be able to calm their nerves and concentrate better.

Gen V/VII's mechanic of basing experience on level difference could be something like Pokemon getting a certain amount of confidence. If they beat a weak opponent they don't get much because they're stronger so they should beat them, opponents on the same level as them they get a normal amount as it would be a test of who is more learned/experienced, and finally if they beat a stronger opponent its a big experience and confidence boost since they beat someone they probably should have lost to (type advantage not withstanding).

EXP Share I can only assume is mad science, you're using technology to share that Pokemon's battling experience with your other Pokemon. The don't get as much because, unlike the Pokemon who battled, they weren't doing anything physical but they were still given the visual aspect of it. It could maybe best be compared to them watching a video of the battle afterwards and learning what was done in the battle and how they could use that knowledge to benefit them when they're battling.
 
Anyone interested in helping me get the bottom of the moves Lovely Kiss and Sweet Kiss?

Pretty unremarkable at first glance, but the thing that tipped me off to something weird going on was the animation for these moves way back in GSC. For Lovely Kiss, a little demon sprite appears, and for Sweet Kiss, it's a little angel. Then of course you look at the original Japanese names and they actually 'Demon's Kiss' and 'Angel's Kiss' respectively.

Lovely Kiss gains the demon animation in Gen II, retains it in Gen III, and then loses it after that - from Gen IV the animation changes to represent the cutesy smooch more familiar to Western players. Sweet Kiss, meanwhile, retains the angel animation from Gen II onwards (I think).



Some thoughts/questions:

1. Why was Jynx given a move called 'Demon's Kiss' exclusively? Is Jynx supposed to be some kind of demon itself, or a witch doctor or something? (And, if so, is this another unfortunate manifestation of the racial controversy that has plagued Jynx since Gen I?)

2. The 'mistranslation' of the name for the English games was almost definitely intentional and fairly self-explanatory I think. But is it fair to assume that even in Japan, GF ended up getting a little uncomfortable with the move itself and so dropped the demon animation (while keeping the more benign angel one)?

3. When Pokemon use these moves (which despite everything are still called the same thing in Japanese), are they actually summoning a demon/angel? The earlier animations seem to suggest this, because the little creeper actually appears on screen? And finally -

4. Does this mean that demons and angels exist in the Pokemon universe (but distinctly from Ghost-type Pokemon)? There are plenty of Pokemon based on Japanese demons/spirits, and most Ghost-types have some kind of 'spiritness' in their concept, but (a little like the question of whether real animals exist alongside Pokemon) is there an acknowledged separate spiritual realm inhabited by demons and angels? And are these two moves the only times that the Pokemon universe brushes with it?

...

I must know this is all I care about now :/
 

Max. Optimizer

no one remembers the names of the trampled flowers
is a Community Contributor
Anyone interested in helping me get the bottom of the moves Lovely Kiss and Sweet Kiss?
I just browsed through Jynx's entry on Bulbapedia (Source) and I found two potentially relevant pieces information:

What Jynx is based on is a controversial topic within the fandom, although common interpretations are a Nordic or a Viking woman (possibly Hel, goddess of the underworld)
Jynx is a corruption of jinx, a curse or hex of bad luck.
The key terms "underworld", "curse", "hex" and "bad luck" all share the same negative and "demonic" connotation.
 
Not really, just give them 3 rainbow beans and they'll DIE FOR YOU. Pokemon have notoriously low standards.


Considering that Youngster Tristan can make it past the Elite Four, it's not out of the question that preschoolers can be much better at pokemon than some adults. Heck, considering the eevee sidequest, it could be argued the pokemon training is easier the younger you are (until you have to get a job and pay taxes). Then throw in the anime age vs. usefulness parabola (where "usefulness" is relegated to the youngest and oldest ends of the spectrum and nothing in between) and the question inverts on itself: why are so many grown adults in the Battle Tree and why aren't there MORE preschoolers?

Beyond this we're just hitting our heads against "gameplay and story segregation." Unless you've got a theory to explain it, we'll just be here all week asking these types of questions. As others have said, it's a little easier to consider these areas non-canon.
the third bean is a complete waste, you just need to give 2 rainbow beans, and then pet them twice.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Anyone interested in helping me get the bottom of the moves Lovely Kiss and Sweet Kiss?

Pretty unremarkable at first glance, but the thing that tipped me off to something weird going on was the animation for these moves way back in GSC. For Lovely Kiss, a little demon sprite appears, and for Sweet Kiss, it's a little angel. Then of course you look at the original Japanese names and they actually 'Demon's Kiss' and 'Angel's Kiss' respectively.

Lovely Kiss gains the demon animation in Gen II, retains it in Gen III, and then loses it after that - from Gen IV the animation changes to represent the cutesy smooch more familiar to Western players. Sweet Kiss, meanwhile, retains the angel animation from Gen II onwards (I think).



Some thoughts/questions:

1. Why was Jynx given a move called 'Demon's Kiss' exclusively? Is Jynx supposed to be some kind of demon itself, or a witch doctor or something? (And, if so, is this another unfortunate manifestation of the racial controversy that has plagued Jynx since Gen I?)

2. The 'mistranslation' of the name for the English games was almost definitely intentional and fairly self-explanatory I think. But is it fair to assume that even in Japan, GF ended up getting a little uncomfortable with the move itself and so dropped the demon animation (while keeping the more benign angel one)?

3. When Pokemon use these moves (which despite everything are still called the same thing in Japanese), are they actually summoning a demon/angel? The earlier animations seem to suggest this, because the little creeper actually appears on screen? And finally -

4. Does this mean that demons and angels exist in the Pokemon universe (but distinctly from Ghost-type Pokemon)? There are plenty of Pokemon based on Japanese demons/spirits, and most Ghost-types have some kind of 'spiritness' in their concept, but (a little like the question of whether real animals exist alongside Pokemon) is there an acknowledged separate spiritual realm inhabited by demons and angels? And are these two moves the only times that the Pokemon universe brushes with it?

...

I must know this is all I care about now :/
1. I personally believe that Jynx's origin is based on both the Yamanba yokai and the Yamanba fashion (which is a sub division of Ganguro fashion)
This explains why Jynx is an ice type, and explains why Jynx is sort of demonic.

Another viable origin is the Zwarte Piete, which is the Dutch version of Christmas Elves.
Zwarte Piete is a demon tamed by St. Nicholas (the Dutch version of Santa Claus)
So, it also has kinda demonic ties.

2. I don't think so. People in Japan aren't afraid to talk about angels and demons because they don't believe in them-- less than 2% of Japan's population is Christian, and they treat angels/ demons like any other mythology-- they think it's a cool thing, like magic. Many Japanese people like Christianity themes as a mythology.
But in Japan, demons are often linked with occult and ESP, so it kinda makes sense for Jynx as a psychic Pokemon to summon something like that.

3. That's a really interesting question. I'd like to know too.

4. Maybe they do exist in the Pokemon universe, alike any other mythology. But I'm not sure. Maybe they originally wanted something to do with it, but then thought it wasn't a good idea since Christianity is very sensitive topic in the West.
 
Last edited:
1. I personally believe that Jynx's origin is based on both the Yamanba yokai and the Yamanba fashion (which is a sub division of Ganguro fashion)
This explains why Jynx is an ice type, and explains why Jynx is sort of demonic.

Another viable origin is the Zwarte Piete, which is the Dutch version of Christmas Elves.
Zwarte Piete is a demon tamed by St. Nicholas (the Dutch version of Santa Claus)
So, it also has kinda demonic ties.

2. I don't think so. People in Japan aren't afraid to talk about angels and demons because they don't believe in them-- less than 2% of Japan's population is Christian, and they treat angels/ demons like any other mythology-- they think it's a cool thing, like magic. Many Japanese people like Christianity themes as a mythology.

3. That's a really interesting question. I'd like to know too.

4. Maybe they do exist in the Pokemon universe, alike any other mythology. But I'm not sure. Maybe they originally wanted something to do with it, but then thought it wasn't a good idea since Christianity is very sensitive topic in the West.
This is the first time I have seen Zwarte Piet being referred to as a 'demon', so I would really like to know where you got that information. Most people here just see Zwarte Piet as St. Nicholas' helpers and friends, so I got rather confused when you brought that up.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
This is the first time I have seen Zwarte Piet being referred to as a 'demon', so I would really like to know where you got that information. Most people here just see Zwarte Piet as St. Nicholas' helpers and friends, so I got rather confused when you brought that up.
Wikipedia

In medieval iconography, Saint Nicholas is sometimes presented as taming a chained devil, who may or may not be black. Although no hint of a devil, servant, or any other human or human-like fixed companion to the Saint is found in visual and textual sources from the Netherlands from the 16th until the 19th century,[12] Zwarte Piet and his equivalents in Germanic Europe, according to a long-standing theory,[13] originally represented such an enslaved devil, forced to assist his captor. This chained and fire-scorched devil may have re-emerged as a black human in the early 19th-century Netherlands, in the likeness of a Moor and as a servant of Saint Nicholas.[14][not in citation given] A devil as a helper of the saint can still be found in the Austrian Saint Nicholas tradition, in the character of Krampus.
 
I have a theory. Its pre-evolution smoochum kisses everything to learn about its environment. What if the when the Jinx was exposed to, and kissed, ugliness, hatred, and fear as a smoochum, Its lips grew evil and kisses demonic “demon kisses”, but if the smoochum kissed kind faces and happy auras, jinx would give out “angelic” sweet kisses.
 

Why so angry? No, I'm not joking. Why did they draw it so angry? It's not like its dex description explains why.
Well everyone knows that the best way to make a design badass is to give it "angry eyes". All the final evolutions of the regional birds do it. Though maybe it needs that intensity to heat up its beak for its signature move? or maybe it knew its pre-evolution Trumbeak would be everywhere in the wild even long after Yungoos and Ratatta are replaced with Gumshoos and Raticate and this is it expressing its disapproval
 

Why so angry? No, I'm not joking. Why did they draw it so angry? It's not like its dex description explains why.
Maybe it's just mad at the world because he has blue feet XD

And then you see it use the flying Z-move and it's floating in midair, still in the standing position, incredibly pissed at everything. And then it comes crashing into the foe still angry like that.
Yeah, I really hate the supersonicskystrike animation. I run a z-fly landorus-T set and it's just standing in the air with trembling feet waiting to crush its foes. Excuse me I'm gonna scoot over to the "things we hate about Pokémon" forum...

MOD EDIT: Please do not double post.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Why is it that the Z Crystals can interact with Arceus's Multitype when the lore only mentions the Plates?
The Z-Crystals seems to amplify or fill the user with the power of the type they are. So could be Arceus's Multitype reacting to this overflow of type energy. It's not mention because its an unintended side effect.

The Z-Crystals look to have a relation to Ultra Space Energy which by now we've seen have very odd effect on people and Pokemon. I guess this is just another.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top