SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[bdt2002]

So I was going to say this before and went "nah thats weird" but here i go anyway: i think gamefreak likes to keep it in the family, generally
Dream Radar was made by gamefreak, so Burnett was free real estate to them. Likewise Bridgette (from Box) got to get referenced in Pokemon Ranch and brought back for Pokemon Bank.

Honestly I wonder if half the reason they periodically use Jesse & James is because they used them in Yellow all those years ago and see them as "theirs" enough in a way they don't with, like, the Rangers or whatever which were handled by different studios.

Again says a lot about their relationship with Go that they decided to debut Meltan & Melmetal, made Let's Go, allow transfers, and made a big deal about Willow getting a pokemon card....and they even get to use Jesse & James!

In the case of Pokémon Go, they likely use Let’s Go being developed by Game Freak as their excuse for this. If I wanted to, I could argue that both games are part of the main series canon, but this isn’t the thread for that. Game Freak never really tapped into the mobile market ever, but what I’ll be referring to as the “Go series” feels like a valid way for them to do so, even if they already had enough on their plate as a company.

Most of the other popular spin-off series (Mystery Dungeon, Ranger, Rumble, etc.) are produced by... crap what’s the word I’m looking for? It’s not colleagues, there’s definitely a word for this. Anyway, those branched companies have never been involved with Pokémon outside of their own games, but when they do get involved with stuff, they live to reference their own products between games.

 

[R_N]

In the case of Pokémon Go, they likely use Let’s Go being developed by Game Freak as their excuse for this. If I wanted to, I could argue that both games are part of the main series canon, but this isn’t the thread for that. Game Freak never really tapped into the mobile market ever, but what I’ll be referring to as the “Go series” feels like a valid way for them to do so, even if they already had enough on their plate as a company.

Most of the other popular spin-off series (Mystery Dungeon, Ranger, Rumble, etc.) are produced by... crap what’s the word I’m looking for? It’s not colleagues, there’s definitely a word for this. Anyway, those branched companies have never been involved with Pokémon outside of their own games, but when they do get involved with stuff, they live to reference their own products between games.

I also agree Let's Go is as main series as it gets despite being so different, but Go I think they'll always see as a spin off. Just one they really really like because it brings in $$$ and more exposure than any of their other mobile games could ever dream and god they want a bigger piece of that p--I'm digressing.

The word you're looking for is probably third parties or contractors? And yeah that's generally what I mean by "keeping it in the family". Ranger is about the only one that had any sort of cross over and that was mostly contained to the anime (iirc even DP didnt specifically refer to Ranger 1 at all), probably since they poised it as the big way to get Manaphy.

Ah you know writing that out I'm kind of surprised Willow hasn't shown up in the anime....


Also just incidentally.

Ah, there we go. As I was trying to say before I screwed up the first attempt at replying, there is no offense taken here. Selfish question in hindsight perhaps, but I had just figured it may take me too long to get caught up. Long enough, at least, to where you guys would have moved onto other topics by the time I'm ready.

there's nothing really long with coming to a conversation "late", the thread doesnt move that fast and sometimes we dredge up old topics anyway. I mean unless the thing is like years old or whatever.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

What's the deal with the Dawn Stone? Unlike what its English name would suggest, it's not actually the counterpart to the Dusk Stone. Indeed, their bag descriptions and Japanese names reveal that the Dusk Stone's counterpart is the Shiny Stone.

Light Stone	Darkness Stone	Awakening Stone
It shines with a dazzling light.	It is as dark as dark can be. It holds shadows as dark as can be.	It sparkles like eyes. It sparkles like a glittering eye.

Additionally, while the Pokemon who evolve with the Shiny and Dusk Stones have relatively straightforward themes (sinister Pokemon for Dusk, cute/pure Pokemon and also Roserade for Shiny) the Dawn Stone has... cross-generational gender-specific evolutions? There are only two Pokemon that use this stone. Shiny and Dusk also originally only had two Pokemon, but they went on to be used for other lines (which helped to establish the Shiny Stone's theme) but Gallade and Froslass are still the only two Pokemon to use the Dawn Stone. What do those Pokemon have to do with each other besides the non-diagetic-feeling meta mechanical stuff? And what does any of this have to do with eyes?

 

[The Mind Electric]

What's the deal with the Dawn Stone? Unlike what its English name would suggest, it's not actually the counterpart to the Dusk Stone. Indeed, their bag descriptions and Japanese names reveal that the Dusk Stone's counterpart is the Shiny Stone.

Light Stone	Darkness Stone	Awakening Stone
It shines with a dazzling light.	It is as dark as dark can be. It holds shadows as dark as can be.	It sparkles like eyes. It sparkles like a glittering eye.

Additionally, while the Pokemon who evolve with the Shiny and Dusk Stones have relatively straightforward themes (sinister Pokemon for Dusk, cute/pure Pokemon and also Roserade for Shiny) the Dawn Stone has... cross-generational gender-specific evolutions? There are only two Pokemon that use this stone. Shiny and Dusk also originally only had two Pokemon, but they went on to be used for other lines (which helped to establish the Shiny Stone's theme) but Gallade and Froslass are still the only two Pokemon to use the Dawn Stone. What do those Pokemon have to do with each other besides the non-diagetic-feeling meta mechanical stuff? And what does any of this have to do with eyes?

Well, if the original name is closer to "Awakening Stone," and it's been given exclusively to cross-generational gender-specific evolution lines, maybe it's meant to be like the "awakening" of new forms for certain Pokémon that previously didn't have them? It's a stretch, but it's the best I can manage.

 

[Pikachu315111]

What's the deal with the Dawn Stone? Unlike what its English name would suggest, it's not actually the counterpart to the Dusk Stone. Indeed, their bag descriptions and Japanese names reveal that the Dusk Stone's counterpart is the Shiny Stone.

Light Stone	Darkness Stone	Awakening Stone
It shines with a dazzling light.	It is as dark as dark can be. It holds shadows as dark as can be.	It sparkles like eyes. It sparkles like a glittering eye.

Additionally, while the Pokemon who evolve with the Shiny and Dusk Stones have relatively straightforward themes (sinister Pokemon for Dusk, cute/pure Pokemon and also Roserade for Shiny) the Dawn Stone has... cross-generational gender-specific evolutions? There are only two Pokemon that use this stone. Shiny and Dusk also originally only had two Pokemon, but they went on to be used for other lines (which helped to establish the Shiny Stone's theme) but Gallade and Froslass are still the only two Pokemon to use the Dawn Stone. What do those Pokemon have to do with each other besides the non-diagetic-feeling meta mechanical stuff? And what does any of this have to do with eyes?

Why "Dawn"?: First I agree if they're going to call the evo stone that evolves sinister Pokemon "Dusk" than its counterpart should have been "Dawn". I can only assume they went with "Dawn" for the gender-based evo stone to go with a similar theme of the Japanese name, Awakening Stone. Just as "awakening" has a few metaphorical meanings, so does "dawn" (such as "dawn of life", "dawn of time", "dawn of a new era", etc.). So the "dawn" in this case is referring to a new realization ("it dawned on me"), a discovery (or an "awakening" to refer back the Japanese name) of a new power within male Kirlia and female Snorunt that lets them take a different evolution path from their opposite gender members or members of their gender which chose to evolve naturally.
Now thinking about it, maybe we should be asking why they didn't named the Dusk Stone something like the "Shadow Stone" or "Shade Stone"

Why Eyes?: To quickly answer this, just has to do with the "awakening/dawn" theme. There's the metaphor "having a twinkle in your eye" which generally means you have something special (implying other's don't have it). Once again, since only male Kirlia and female Snorunt evolve with it, you can say they have a "twinkle in their eye" when it comes to having a choice of evolution compared to their opposite gender members. Other connections include your opening your eyes when you awaken, usually during the dawn. Also the stone is designed to look like an eye.

Why Separate Evo Stone?: Now this is the harder question to answer. Surely male Kirlia could have evolved with the Shiny Stone and Froslass with the Dusk Stone. If I had to guess, it's because of the gender-based mechanic. No other evolution stone requires the Pokemon to be a specific gender. If I had to guess, up till now whenever GF had a cross gen evolution they always gave it a new evolution method to explain why it couldn't have evolved in a previous gen. They were kind of pedantic(?) with wanting to make sure players understood how the evolution methods worked for each Pokemon. Since the other Evo Stones didn't have a gender requirement, GF maybe thought it would be irregular for them to only have it for just two Pokemon. Thus they made the Dawn Stone specifically for so that these Pokemon they wanted to be stone evos could also have the gender-based requirement without any confusion why they would have been an exception to the rule.

 

[DreamPrince]

So here's a new conspiracy, on Mega Evolution. The removal of Mega Evolution was truly a baffling move on GF's part. Megas were super popular for the general population, and they were wonderful marketing tools that spawned a ton of merchandise, and marketing can still be seen today, particularly spin-offs such as Pokemon Masters, Rescue Team DX, and Go. So why get rid of them? They are insanely popular even today, especially with the millions of people getting exposed to them through GO.

Some of the theories state that Megas were removed because they were overshadowed by regional variants, but I disagree. If Megas were indeed overshadowed by regional variants due to being favored by Regional Variants, then why introduce Gigantamax? From a marketing standpoint, Gigantamax is more or less a super form like Megas, so I don't buy that regional variants were the the premiere reason why Megas were abandoned.

Rather, I think the real reason is that they ran out of " popular " Pokémon to market. Specifically, the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Gengar; especially Kanto Starters. In the eyes of TPC and GF, these are the most marketable Pokemon among the fully evolved Kanto Pokemon, with Eevee and Pikachu being the most popular recently. See the problems? Pikachu and Eevee are not fully evolved, meaning that they couldn’t recieve Megas because it was only fully evolved Pokemon. That already limited that the choice of " popular " Pokemon to choose from. Sure they could do Mega Charizard Z, but that luster would eventually wear off, not to mention the limited combination of unique stats, abilities, and items. We would eventually get Mega Swanna and Mega Purugly, but who cares about these Pokemon from a merchandise standpoint?

Now going to Dexit territory, maybe the reason for the removal of Megas was for more super forms of the popular Gen 1 Pokemon. Trying to have three super mechanics would just be a big mess. I believe that Megas and Z-Moves were removed for creating new forms of popular Pokémon for the sake of merchandise.

 

[Siggu]

So here's a new conspiracy, on Mega Evolution. The removal of Mega Evolution was truly a baffling move on GF's part. Megas were super popular for the general population, and they were wonderful marketing tools that spawned a ton of merchandise, and marketing can still be seen today, particularly spin-offs such as Pokemon Masters, Rescue Team DX, and Go. So why get rid of them? They are insanely popular even today, especially with the millions of people getting exposed to them through GO.

Some of the theories state that Megas were removed because they were overshadowed by regional variants, but I disagree. If Megas were indeed overshadowed by regional variants due to being favored by Regional Variants, then why introduce Gigantamax? From a marketing standpoint, Gigantamax is more or less a super form like Megas, so I don't buy that regional variants were the the premiere reason why Megas were abandoned.

Rather, I think the real reason is that they ran out of " popular " Pokémon to market. Specifically, the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Gengar; especially Kanto Starters. In the eyes of TPC and GF, these are the most marketable Pokemon among the fully evolved Kanto Pokemon, with Eevee and Pikachu being the most popular recently. See the problems? Pikachu and Eevee are not fully evolved, meaning that they couldn’t recieve Megas because it was only fully evolved Pokemon. That already limited that the choice of " popular " Pokemon to choose from. Sure they could do Mega Charizard Z, but that luster would eventually wear off, not to mention the limited combination of unique stats, abilities, and items. We would eventually get Mega Swanna and Mega Purugly, but who cares about these Pokemon from a merchandise standpoint?

Now going to Dexit territory, maybe the reason for the removal of Megas was for more super forms of the popular Gen 1 Pokemon. Trying to have three super mechanics would just be a big mess. I believe that Megas and Z-Moves were removed for creating new forms of popular Pokémon for the sake of merchandise.

Or because of difficulties designing them. I mean, we know of Flygon being denied a Mega because they hit an artist's block...

 

[Chadlad50]

Or because of difficulties designing them. I mean, we know of Flygon being denied a Mega because they hit an artist's block...

I mean I don't necessarily blame him, looking up "Mega Flygon" on Google doesn't bring up anything I'm too interested in

Mega Evolution is cool but a lot of the designs are just "Pokemon but with more stripes, coloring, or spikes." I really do want to know if they ever did come up with any designs for Mega Flygon or other Pokemon that ended up rejected

 

[DreamPrince]

Or because of difficulties designing them. I mean, we know of Flygon being denied a Mega because they hit an artist's block...

I mean I don't necessarily blame him, looking up "Mega Flygon" on Google doesn't bring up anything I'm too interested in

Mega Evolution is cool but a lot of the designs are just "Pokemon but with more stripes, coloring, or spikes." I really do want to know if they ever did come up with any designs for Mega Flygon or other Pokemon that ended up rejected

The same could be said for Gigantamax. I could make the arguement saying that Gigantamax is just a Pokémon with more stripes and spikes, and is just as hard to design as Megas. Point is I don’t think saying that Megas were hard to design is the reason for their discontinuation, or we would have not have received Gigantamax which subjectively as hard to design.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So here's a new conspiracy, on Mega Evolution. The removal of Mega Evolution was truly a baffling move on GF's part. (...)

Some of the theories state that Megas were removed because they were overshadowed by regional variants, but I disagree. (...)

Rather, I think the real reason is that they ran out of " popular " Pokémon to market. (...)

Now going to Dexit territory, maybe the reason for the removal of Megas was for more super forms of the popular Gen 1 Pokemon. Trying to have three super mechanics would just be a big mess. I believe that Megas and Z-Moves were removed for creating new forms of popular Pokémon for the sake of merchandise.

No, there's plenty of popular Pokemon that didn't get a Mega.

The reason they stopped having Mega in the main game is cause they moved on to a new toy. Mega was a fun idea in Gen VI, but going to Gen VII they likely did all the ideas they wanted to do plus they said so themselves it was pretty limiting to only doing final stage Pokemon. Their solution to that was Z-Moves which every Pokemon could use, didn't have to make a new Pokemon design (saving that time for Regional Variants), they could have fun with animations, and while power creep in its own way wasn't as much power creep as Mega Evos. The only reason Mega Evos were kept around in Gen VII is likely cause GF weren't thinking long term so was just trying to keep the mechanic everyone liked in even though they moved on. Then when they thought of Dynamax & especially Gigantamax for Gen VIII they realized they were making mechanic bloat so cut Megas and Z-Moves cause they saw Dynamax and Gigantamax being a combination of the two most likely (and they learned their lesson by mentioning Dynamax was a Galar only thing so no reason to think it'll be in the next region). However, as you said, Mega Evos were still popular and games & especially merch that have them sell well so they'll throw them in here and there though who knows if they'll ever come back to the main series aside from a Kalos remakes 10 years from now. It's pretty notable that, despite them being in Let's Go, they still didn't make any new Megas which is a clear sign they're kind of done for them for now (just like how Sword & Shield didn't introduce any new Ultra Beasts; been there, done that, onto the next toy).

I mean I don't necessarily blame him, looking up "Mega Flygon" on Google doesn't bring up anything I'm too interested in

Mega Evolution is cool but a lot of the designs are just "Pokemon but with more stripes, coloring, or spikes." I really do want to know if they ever did come up with any designs for Mega Flygon or other Pokemon that ended up rejected

Yeah, Flygon I feel is a Pokemon that has reached its final form and its hard to really go an interesting direction with. Personally I feel they should do an idea where it becomes a sand swimmer (losing the ability to fly) more resembling Trapinch with its wings shortening and becoming fin-like if they want to go an interesting direction (it'll obviously replace its Levitate Ability with something else, maybe actually give it Sand Stream). But I have a feeling those fan made Flygon we see where they really focus on its wings are likely the same problem GF was having, just not that interesting.

They probably did come up with at least some Mega Flygon designs hence discovering there was artist block, but it's likely just sketches and nothing wholly complete.

he same could be said for Gigantamax. I could make the arguement saying that Gigantamax is just a Pokémon with more stripes and spikes, and is just as hard to design as Megas. Point is I don’t think saying that Megas were hard to design is the reason for their discontinuation, or we would have not have received Gigantamax which subjectively as hard to design.

Gigantamax did have some "themes" though to help it out: the idea of Pokemon becoming kaiju and "big" things. Mega was a bit more open with design ideas, focusing on the idea "what would be the ideal form of this Pokemon?".

 

[Lightchao42]

I headcanon that Elgyem and Beheeyem are from Mars (the planet, not the Team Galactic admin). Perhaps Mars had its own small population of Pokémon at some point, but eventually the Martian biosphere started to collapse. The Elgyem and Beheeyem used their big brain energy to build a UFO and fled to Earth, where they landed in Unova and spread throughout the planet.

"But Beheeyem looks like a poorly disguised human," you may be thinking. "Why would it look like that if there are no humans on Mars?" Perhaps the Beheeyem we know is a regional variant, and the Martian Beheeyem looked different.

As for the rest of the extraterrestrial Pokémon:
Clefairy and its relatives are from the Moon, probably, though it's unclear if similar Pokémon like Jigglypuff are also lunarians.

Solrock and Lunatone are called meteorites and were discovered in Meteor Falls, so they probably originated from the asteroid belt.

Deoxys also comes from a meteor, though it evolved from a virus rather than being a meteor itself. It shares characteristics with Staryu and Starmie though, but we don't know if they're aliens too. Staryu might be a relative that ended up on Earth long before Deoxys did, if it is extraterrestrial. Deoxys could have evolved on Titan, but it would be difficult for it to end up on an Earthbound meteor that case. Verdict: perhaps a Jupiter trojan or centaur.

Kyurem supposedly came from a meteor according to one of its backstories, but we don't know how that fits with its identity as the original dragon. It seems, at least, that something landed in the Giant Chasm. Kyurem is icy enough to have plausibly originated from the Kuiper belt, but we don't know if it was always Ice-type. Preliminary verdict: came from a comet that passed Earth, if it is extraterrestrial.

Eternatus came from yet another meteor but unlike Kyurem, is much more similar to the Ultra Beasts than any of Earth's Pokémon. It could have evolved in the Kuiper belt, but it probably would be Ice-type in that case, and the Wishing Stars aren't icy either. Maybe it was mutated by a gamma ray burst or something. Verdict (assuming it didn't come from another dimension): scattered disc, because who knows what goes on there?

Of course, I doubt Game Freak put that much effort into the origins of their space Pokémon, but I thought it was a fun thought exercise.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I don't think megas being limited to fully evolved Pokemon played much of a factor, because outside of Gmax Pikachu, Eevee, and Meowth (all of which were distributed through event) every Gigantamax is still of fully evolved Pokemon. If they wanted to, they could have made Mega Pikachu, Mega Eevee, and Mega Meowth. I also don't think that running out of Gen 1 Pokemon is the main factor, though the diminishing returns of megas that aren't Charizard, Mewtwo, Gengar, and Lucario likely did play a part. I think it really is as simple as "we want to introduce a cool new thing in Dynamax and Gigantamax, but having them on top of megas and z-moves feels like too much".

As for why megas have continued to appear in spinoffs, I think it's both because they're popular and also way easier to implement than Dynamax and Gigantamax. "Charizard but it's black now" is pretty simple, just swap out the model and you're done. "Charizard but it's the size of a building" requires special consideration of camera and setting.

And as being unable to come up with a satisfactory design for Mega Flygon, Smogon's own ausma the GOAT designed one that kicks ass.

Hide

 

[Pikachu315111]

Kyurem supposedly came from a meteor according to one of its backstories, but we don't know how that fits with its identity as the original dragon. It seems, at least, that something landed in the Giant Chasm. Kyurem is icy enough to have plausibly originated from the Kuiper belt, but we don't know if it was always Ice-type. Preliminary verdict: came from a comet that passed Earth, if it is extraterrestrial.

While not confirmed so I'll be referring this theory as fanon (at least my own), the whole meteor thing with Kyurem isn't that its from space but rather has to do with it being split. Unable to choose one brother over the other, I could see the Original Dragon having a sort of "panic attack" and rapidly flew up high into the air. Once a safe distance away, in order to resolve the conflict within itself which brother to serve, it split itself apart. Reshiram and Zekrom flew back down to the kingdom and joined the side of the brother who's belief they aligned with. Meanwhile what was left of the Original Dragon, Kyurem which was now a icy husk and unable to fly, fell back down to Unova looking like a meteor and landed in Giant Chasm. A broken shell of its former self, Kyurem lived in isolation only coming out to apparently eat someone from Lacunosa Town.

 

[DreamPrince]

The reason they stopped having Mega in the main game is cause they moved on to a new toy. Mega was a fun idea in Gen VI, but going to Gen VII they likely did all the ideas they wanted to do plus they said so themselves it was pretty limiting to only doing final stage Pokemon.

That too; thoughI feel like that is part of the charm of Megas: A super popular Pokémon gets a new super powered form, and that creates hype. And who gets the most hype? Gen 1, at least according to TPC. The most popular Pokémon are those ones I previously mentioned, and chances are that they'll make more money simply due to being popular, and getting a super second form is only a big deal for a small minority of players, that means us.

 

[bdt2002]

Here are my takes on some of these new conspiracies I’m actually pretty interested in:

Removal of Megas: During development of Sword & Shield, Game Freak said something along the lines of wanting to promote Dynamax (and by extension Gigantamax and Eternamax) as a mechanic to go along with the idea that Pokémon could be bigger than usual on a TV screen. I can’t remember what their exact quotes were, but with what confirmed information we do have, I can’t see this having anything to do with the removal of Mega Evolution. Personally, I believe this change was actually, at least partially, due to game balance changes. Mega Evolution had been overcentralizing the main series metagames for two Generations now, and I’d actually argue the removal of a held item slot was a buff for them in Let’s Go Pikachu & Eevee, on top of the Speed and priority mechanics change we got in Sun & Moon which buffed most Megas but did indirectly nerf a few, most notably Mega Sableye and pre-Mega Prankster.

Mega Flygon: I’d like to say something that might be a bit controversial. I’ve been entirely convinced for a while now that Flygon’s Mega Evolution being scrapped was NOT a case of artist’s block like they said. I instead look at this as a case of Game Freak wanting to maintain an even number of a new mechanic (there are a grand total of 48 Mega forms), and Game Freak likes Flygon a lot less than some Pokémon who did get Mega Evolutions. This is especially likely given that supposedly Flygon’s Mega was planned for the XY wave of Megas, and if artist’s block was an issue, they could have easily given Flygon a Mega Evolution in ORAS instead, which just so happens to take place in its home region of Hoenn. Coincidence? I think not. They would have just came up with this artist’s block story to cover up the truth...

The Origins of Space Pokémon: Here’s some food for thought. What if Kyurem and Eternatus had some sort of similar ancestry? Neither of them in their base forms look exactly earthly, and while it’s very tough to confirm anything, they could have both came from an alien-like race of Pokémon similar to the Ultra Beasts that lived in that asteroid belt one of you guys mentioned. It’s not much, but in a similar way to how the Ultra Beasts share an Ability, Kyurem and Eternatus both share a Dragon-Type, the Pressure ability (admittedly this means nothing since other Legendaries have it too), and a high HP stat...? Yeah, I’m kinda reaching for stuff here.

 

[Siggu]

Mega Flygon: I’d like to say something that might be a bit controversial. I’ve been entirely convinced for a while now that Flygon’s Mega Evolution being scrapped was NOT a case of artist’s block like they said. I instead look at this as a case of Game Freak wanting to maintain an even number of a new mechanic (there are a grand total of 48 Mega forms), and Game Freak likes Flygon a lot less than some Pokémon who did get Mega Evolutions. This is especially likely given that supposedly Flygon’s Mega was planned for the XY wave of Megas, and if artist’s block was an issue, they could have easily given Flygon a Mega Evolution in ORAS instead, which just so happens to take place in its home region of Hoenn. Coincidence? I think not. They would have just came up with this artist’s block story to cover up the truth...

The thing is...

Why have a major NPC with Flygon as their main (only) Pokémon, have them give a Mega Stone... and it turning out to be a Garchompite (a Mega Stone for a Pokémon with the exact same typing as Flygon)?

 

[bdt2002]

The thing is...

View attachment 384183

Why have a major NPC with Flygon as their main (only) Pokémon, have them give a Mega Stone... and it turning out to be a Garchompite (a Mega Stone for a Pokémon with the exact same typing as Flygon)?

Exactly. If they actually cared about Flygon, they would have done this with Aarune and Mega Flygon instead, but no, Garchomp's apparently too marketable or something... I won't lie to you guys, this is actually part of why I dislike Mega Evolution overall and was glad to see it go. It's unbalanced and too many fan-service Pokémon got them when other Pokémon could have used extra help. I guess it's fine in casual gameplay, but even then Megas are a bit on the strong side for my liking nowadays.

 

[Bakugames]

I don't think megas being limited to fully evolved Pokemon played much of a factor, because outside of Gmax Pikachu, Eevee, and Meowth (all of which were distributed through event) every Gigantamax is still of fully evolved Pokemon. If they wanted to, they could have made Mega Pikachu, Mega Eevee, and Mega Meowth. I also don't think that running out of Gen 1 Pokemon is the main factor, though the diminishing returns of megas that aren't Charizard, Mewtwo, Gengar, and Lucario likely did play a part. I think it really is as simple as "we want to introduce a cool new thing in Dynamax and Gigantamax, but having them on top of megas and z-moves feels like too much".

As for why megas have continued to appear in spinoffs, I think it's both because they're popular and also way easier to implement than Dynamax and Gigantamax. "Charizard but it's black now" is pretty simple, just swap out the model and you're done. "Charizard but it's the size of a building" requires special consideration of camera and setting.

And as being unable to come up with a satisfactory design for Mega Flygon, Smogon's own ausma the GOAT designed one that kicks ass.

Hide

View attachment 384090

I find that design too bloated (sand coming from antennae, wings, AND tail is too much, would look very cluttered in any other position, and only works as a 2d drawing imo), and somewhat uninspired ("its flygon but it spews sand now").

I don't think this is a lack of skill of ausma, most mega designs suffer from the same issues, and flygon is already a concept that is jam-packed, so adding anything in makes it overload into too much to take in.
That's the problem of designing something meant to expand something that is already a final stage: While some pokémon can get a couple of touch-ups, Megas were always "add MORE we need to add MORE", which just doesn't work for most pokémon.

I find gmax is on the other extreme point, a lot of it feels rather bland, but considering is a very short-term form limited to some places, the simplicity of it isn't that bad, matches with the mechanic.

At the end of the day, I don't like these ultra-form mechanics. I'd rather the pokemon itself be redesigned (either mechanically or in design) if the devs feel like something is lacking.

 

[bdt2002]

(This post has now been updated. My apologies to R_N for the confusion.)

"Have you ever thought that two of your favorite Pokémon games were secretly the same game hidden behind a fresh coat of paint?"

There are a few games that I'd like to mention that, for whatever reason, have so, SO much in common. Let's just cut to the chase. What if I told you that this

Was actually this in disguise?

Hooray, I found a way to talk about my favorite Pokémon game again. But in all seriousness, this is actually a pretty popular theory with quite the following behind it. After similarities between the previous game (ORAS)'s Soaring mechanic and the flying mechanics of Guardian Signs emerged, a number of fans turned their attention towards several of the things that set Sun & Moon apart from previous main series games. The most obvious example is that both of the games' regional settings are composed of individual islands as opposed to one giant landmass like most other regions. As one of three people alive that preferred the base form of Sun & Moon over the Ultra versions (don't worry, I'm only being sarcastic) and was one of even fewer people who grew up with Guardian Signs in particular, I was all over this for quite some time. Most people were willing to let this go with the simple answers, but I wanted more. I wanted extra, so I kept digging over the past few years.

Let's just say these games have more in common than I initially thought. I'm not just talking about stuff like Suin & Moon's Poké Ride functionality replacing HMs either. There's even a few story parallels between each game, as well as parallels between Pokémon distribution, type distributions, similar locations, and even the freaking regional PokéDex has the exact same number of Pokémon in it as the Browser in Guardian Signs, clocking in at exactly 301 Pokémon each.

It's still in development, but I'm in the process of designing a sort of presentation going over this whole conspiracy in its entirety. My only question I have left is... why? The similarities seem almost intentional, and it's not like the Ranger games were entirely irrelevant at the time either. Sure, there hasn't been a new game since 2010, but let me remind you guys that the entire trilogy along with a surprising amount of other spinoffs was added to the Wii U's Virtual Console lineup in 2016 for the franchise's 20th anniversary, which- you guessed it- was the exact year Sun & Moon came out. So why did they include all these indirect nods to the game, not even that long after ORAS referenced the game too?

 

[R_N]

Hey guys, it's me again. Man, I really need to work on my introductions to posts... what were we talking about again?

Unfortunately I'll have to cut off this post early and actually edit/post this later since I have a class to go to in a few minutes, but until then I'll leave you with some foreshadowing as to what this post actually entails.

"Have you ever thought that two of your favorite Pokémon games were secretly the same game hidden behind a fresh coat of paint?"

You don't have to do posts like this, you know. The forum saves posts, so you can just come back and finish it.

 

[Sonikku A]

It gets me that GF pretty much ditched HAL after Gen 4
Despite them doing...
-Stadium
-Snap
-Gen 2 dev for faster/less laggy compression
-Lugia Movie
-Stadium 2
-Colosseum
-Loaning models for others GC era
-Some TCG renders
-Rangers
-XD
-Rangers 2
-Rangers 3

Then PBR happened and despite heavily reusing or referencing their model and anims, they just...didn't hire them for Gen 4 mons and walking anims
Nor credit them for older models...
Or merge the staff for Creatures Inc...

What happened?

 

[R_N]

It gets me that GF pretty much ditched HAL after Gen 4
Despite them doing...
-Stadium
-Snap
-Gen 2 dev for faster/less laggy compression
-Lugia Movie
-Stadium 2
-Colosseum
-Loaning models for others GC era
-Some TCG renders
-Rangers
-XD
-Rangers 2
-Rangers 3

Then PBR happened and despite heavily reusing or referencing their model and anims, they just...didn't hire them for Gen 4 mons and walking anims
Nor credit them for older models...
Or merge the staff for Creatures Inc...

What happened?

I don't think think HAL were involved with Colossem or XD were they? I mean I guess beyond providing the gen 1 & 2 models.
And it seems like Ranger 2 & 3 were full Creatures Inc?

 

[Sonikku A]

I don't think think HAL were involved with Colossem or XD were they? I mean I guess beyond providing the gen 1 & 2 models.
And it seems like Ranger 2 & 3 were full Creatures Inc?

Gen 3 pokemon models were 70% by Hal going by credits. The rest was freelancers from Capcom and Intelligent Systems (in other words, GS didn't do mons)
You're right about Rangers 3, though they did dev 2
....which makes GF/Creatures dumping them after Gen 4 seem more blatant

 

[R_N]

Gen 3 pokemon models were 70% by Hal going by credits. The rest was freelancers from Capcom and Intelligent Systems (in other words, GS didn't do mons)
You're right about Rangers 3, though they did dev 2
....which makes GF/Creatures dumping them after Gen 4 seem more blatant

Interesting on the model front, more interesting that they only partially worked on it.




And sorry to keep harping on this but are you sure they did 2? I glanced through the credits and dont see them listed (might've just glanced by them though?). Bulbapedia (bastion of accuracy, I know) only lists Creatures Inc, just like with Ranger 3

 

[Sonikku A]

Interesting on the model front, more interesting that they only partially worked on it.




And sorry to keep harping on this but are you sure they did 2? I glanced through the credits and dont see them listed (might've just glanced by them though?). Bulbapedia (bastion of accuracy, I know) only lists Creatures Inc, just like with Ranger 3

Rangers 2 used less of Hal's staff, so that's probably why
Hajime Kuroyanagi for instance is from the Stadium developers, and still did game design/planning for Almia
But regardless...what prompted GF to move away from Hal?