dumb question but did you mean SpD instead of Spe? i can see the merits of some speed, but forgoing serious def or SpD investment in favor of a stat that doesn’t matter that much on a wall, and gets reduced by curse anyway just seems weird to me
dumb question but did you mean SpD instead of Spe? i can see the merits of some speed, but forgoing serious def or SpD investment in favor of a stat that doesn’t matter that much on a wall, and gets reduced by curse anyway just seems weird to me
Well, considering the proximity of the keys e and d on the keyboard, and the fact that garganacl has a base speed of 35 I can say with great confidence that it is in fact meant to be Special defense.dumb question but did you mean SpD instead of Spe? i can see the merits of some speed, but forgoing serious def or SpD investment in favor of a stat that doesn’t matter that much on a wall, and gets reduced by curse anyway just seems weird to me
By performing advanced albaquerque, you can subtract where it is from where it isn't to where it isn't from where it is, then divide the result by 0 to conclude that the missile constructed from a baseplate of prefamulated amulite does indeed know where it is.Well, considering the proximity of the keys e and d on the keyboard,
Unfortunately this isn't the place to ask for team rates, you'd be better off asking in either the National Dex Discord #rmt channel, the #Natdex OU thread in the Smogon Discord, or SV Other Teams in the Forum RMT, link here.Hi everyone, is it okay if someone rates my main Showdown team, please? It's kind of cobbled together, here is the team: Dream Team (pokepast.es)
Thank you!
When Ogerpon-W is running around the tier spamming Encore, Tapu Lele shutting down Thunderclap entirely, Landorus-Therian threatening powerful Earthquakes, and Ferrothorn well, existing, I really don't think Raging Bolt is a suspectable threat. Is it powerful? Undeniably. But it's poor speed and reliance on Thunderclap opens it up to some easy checks/counters, and it's never really felt overwhelming to me in the same way that Wellspring and Zamazenta have felt at times.Idk why nobody is talking about this mon it’s by far the best in the meta and it beats every spdef wall in the meta, this big giraffe needs to be susd ASAP.
Raging bolt calcs
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 223-264 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 256-303 (88.5 - 104.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 178-211 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 228-268 (49.2 - 57.8%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads in Sun: 292-344 (76 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
not to mention it’s defensive prowess walking mons like Ogerpon, Zapdos(offensive) and Zard y
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt in Sun: 156-185 (34.3 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 162-191 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 96-114 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
The fact that you can easily force Raging Bolt out, burning its Booster Energy while also chipping it is pretty valuableFirst of all raging bolt literally beats Lando lol. Lando can’t switch in or even ohko it and it just gets 2hkod by dragon plus or Draco meteor 2hkod in its 1v1 not to mention raging bolt can also run Tera flying really easily even being the recommended Tera.
Even though encore is rarely used on Waterpon I’ll still entertain it, the only way Ogerpon will annoy raging bolt with encore is if raging bolt had clicked either calm mind or thunderclap the previous turn you can easily switch out and back in on Ogerpon because it walls it and when you come back in even if they swords dance you tank and thunderbolt twice killing it
Lele isn't switching in on Raging Bolt unless it's a revenge kill, so it actually does beat it with Moonblast, and I was referring to Lele shutting down its Thunderclap with Psychic Terrain, not Tapu Lele 1v1ing it.and if they want to Tera to get more damage it’s even better not to mention you can z move through encore. Addressing lele it doesn’t even beat it either after 1 calm mind LMFAOOO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. +1 80 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 342-404 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 289-342 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ogerpon 1v1s if it catches Bolt on the Thunderclap/Calm Mind, same with Lele. Kingambit was also much stronger due to having Swords Dance, Supreme Overlord giving it 1.5x to its attacks, abused Tera to a far greater extent, and didn't have a priority move that could be blanked by one of the best types in the tier.And even if I WERE to grant you both of those counters let’s make a little comparison, hmmm what other mon abused priority and was threatened out by encore and lele kingambit and it still got banned not to mention lele or Ogerpon can’t even 1v1 raging bolt
Now you're just misrepresenting stats completely. I'm going to assume that you understand how Draco Meteor works, so if you do the right calc, not the one that fits your narrative, you'd see that+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 295-348 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 246-290 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So ting Lu also gets fried
and look at the treatment Chansey gets lol I can just do +3 raging bolt because Chansey is setup fodder butttt I’ll just do 2
+2 252+ SpA Raging Bolt Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 462-544 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 307-363 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
so it just sets up once and mauls it easily
Even though encore is rarely used on Waterpon
Addressing lele it doesn’t even beat it either after 1 calm mind LMFAOOO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. +1 80 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 342-404 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 289-342 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And I already addressed Ogerpon you repeating yourself doesn’t defeat my point whatsoever and with gambit and the bolt comparison, bolt has a much better defensive typing than gambit and a much greater defensive prowess and gets a 1.3x boost from proto synthesis and not to mention electric priority is muchhhh better than dark priority especially when most the phys attackers in the tier are fighting type plus iron valiant.
And I meant z plus Draco fries it and look at this
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 450-531 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So in sun u get torched badly
I believe the variety of sets and teams you can run this Mon is what makes it crazy along with it being impossible to prep for and having no walls I think it should be banned similar to how gambit was
yes, i can discount ogerpon in this scenario due to the fact that we are talking on a basis of what will most commonly beat raging bolt and most of the time it wont annoy bolt because it barely runs encore and once again even if it does run encore it still doesnt beat it lol.
and for the lele calc i was referencing if it was switching in. (maybe to try to predict a draco or z ect) plus bolt can tera around lele and beat it.
maybe if you read carefully you would find that i refuted and defeated his argument about ogerpon stopping it with encore. Not always is raging bolts protosynthesis from booster energy its also standard on sun teams which weakens the ogerpon wellspring argument even further by making its ivy cudgel do less, and i would say you're blowing the z move out of proportion i dont think its that big of a resource especially when u have a boosted draco meteor, and play rough is ran sub 8 percent on ogerpon and even if it does run play rough it still gets fried
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 262-310 (87 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Play Rough vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 234-276 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
now to address gambit all of the mons u mentioned beat gambit with lele using focus blast, pult using terablast fighting and gholdengo especially running tera fighting focus blast and i like how you cherrypick random mons that raging bolt walls when you could have mentioned bigger threats like zard y and ogerpon wellspring and what fast frail sets are you talking about that gambit put in place, im going to need some examples. To address the 1.3 proto boost, raging bolt is ran on sun just as much as its ran with protosynthesis so no its not really that much that you're portraying it to be. I mean kingambits entire role is endgame matchups so sure ill give you that but during the game raging bolts priority imo is much better and i dont really care about the immunity because all the pokemon that are immune get terad on and fried not to mention iron valiant 4x resists kingambit sucker destroying it, raging bolt cant relate
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 256-303 (88.5 - 104.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
not to mention raging bolt is usually plus 1 by the time iron val comes in to revenge kill it and even if u run choice specs it cant kill with moonblast
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 324-384 (79.6 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
therefore encore also doesnt matter due to it already surviving fairly easily unless you had calm mind or thunderclapped last turn
to reference kingambit beating the fighting types.... kingambit rarely ever ran anything but tera dark in nd and idk what u mean cripple it with knock off nobody said its switching in lol and its also not doing shit with sucker punch unless it has enough fallen teammates which just dismissed ur arg ab the teammates being able to beat it via it being way too situational lategame and unreliable to predict from a hypothetical standpoint.
i think the chansey shit is getting too off track to where yes you could attempt to predict me in game but going by that logic i can also just predict the switch and thunderbolt lol and can you show me its not used on sun that much? please and thank you. You also dont need thunderbolt to kill pex lol
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Toxapex: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
now look at that, imagine what z move would do lol
theres also leftovers sets, assault vest sets and life orb sets on top of the already broken sets listed above.
raging bolt fries most of the mons u mentioned lol
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 234-276 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 120-142 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- 9.4% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 948-1116 (270 - 317.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (yikes)
not even gonna waste my time on a lando calc cuz it gets fried so hard lmfao
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 295-348 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery not to mention the z move
not even gonna put slowking g on there cuz of how bad it gets fried
raging bolt also just tera flys on gliscor and wrecks it with tbolt plus gliscor is coming in when its already plus 1 either as a switch in and can risk getting destroyed by draco or z or you have to let something die in order to bring it in safely and yes i obviously know u cant z and tera im just mentioning the variety of sets and how its so hard to prep for
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Tera Flying Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 252 SpD Tera Fairy Gliscor: 310-366 (88 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
not to mention theres a high ass chance it would be plus 2 lol
you havent justified as to why its nowhere near kingambit, and sure cm encore beats the z set but it doesnt beat it if it teras lolol
overall this mons lack of walls offensively and defensively pushes it over the edge to be uber material
Bolt never loses to ogerpon. Stop.You can't, because despite ladder usage weirdness, it's a set that exists and has to be respected. You also just ignored the part where it needs Z to even break the loop, which btw Wellspring can simply pivot out of to bait and waste your Z and then Bolt is REALLY stuck.
No one is switching lele directly into it unless they have no other options. Which is only happening if: the lele player somehow doesn't have other soft checks (which there are many of), or somehow let themself get put in that position. Your whole "well it can just tera" is weak considering Bolt isn't gonna auto tera in that instance, especially when the Bolt user has to account for the rest of Lele's team. It's much more nuanced than you're trying to reduce it to because you wanna make Bolt seem broken.
You didn't refute or defeat. Also drop the attitude it's not helping your argument at all.
Sun Raging is not that common because it's a very high maintanence playstyle (it's good, but you're running ZardY and at least two forms of anti hazard tech to ensure Zard can keep coming in). You're also taking ladder usage a little too honestly considering Wellspring is the type of pokemon that has such a free 4th moveslot, it can and will viably run anything (SD/Ivy/PowerWhip/4th move) and thus all are possibilities to be respected. You keep calcing like Proto boost is the most common example, but if the opposing Bolt is Booster then all it takes is it being chased out once (not hard to do) and Wellspring cleans it with boosted PR (and Bolt becomes easier to manage anyways).
Lele is almost always choiced and clicking any move besides FB meant it was losing most, if not all health to pursuit on the way out. Gholdengo only sometimes ran Z fighting because of Gambit, but it was still less common because lefties NP and covert cloak NP were much better back then.
It's not cherrypicking really. ZardY frequently runs Scorching Sands which heavily damages Bolt if it comes in on it, while Wellspring as mentioned can both beat it with +2 PR (or hell, after just one switch in to unboosted Ivy Cudgel and Bolt drops to +2 Superpower too). It checks them, but is not at all a hard answer to either. As for your claim that Bolt is ran on sun as much as booster energy off sun? Yeah no.
As for Kingambit, it was a fantastic buffer for a ton of teams against a huge amount of frail offense teams and cheesy HO. It compressed this as well as the other utility I mentioned in one single slot, easing building. Of course we still banned it because despite this, it itself was highly difficult to handle because of its power, but it was a more impactful defensive piece than Bolt ever could be. Kingambit's entire role was not endgame sweeper, it was excellent throughout games because of pursuit and knock off.
"i dont really care about the immunity because all the pokemon that are immune get terad" it's not nearly as straightforward as that. You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears when you make comments like this. Also your Valiant example is silly because Valiant commonly runs encore, can run Destiny Bond and will realistically be able to lock down Bolt in most scenarios so the team isn't overwhelmed by it one way or another.
Yeah you can just quit right there. I played during the Kingambit meta, and got reqs to ban it. Dark was a common type, but it was not the only type it could run. It's one of the most tera flexible pokemon in the game. Kingambit cripples fighting types switching in with knock off. That's quite literally what that means. Also "its also not doing shit with sucker punch unless it has enough fallen teammatesz" says you either didn't play the meta or didn't play enough. Even early game Gambit had immense strength to pressure frail offense without boosting (and that's if it wasn't running Blackglasses, which made it even more devilish.
The rest of this is just "Bolt being in the perfect conditions every scenario therefore it can't lose" which is both unrealistic and not common. Bolt on Sun is the LEAST common way it's used, so using every calc as if it's on sun and CM is very disingenuous. Though one I want to specifically touch on because it tanks your post more than anything,
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 295-348 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery not to mention the z move
FayaWizard already corrected you on this calc being wrong but for some reason you repeated it.
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 397-468 (77.2 - 91%) -- not a KO
In short, you need to consider what is most commonly used with Raging Bolt which is either Booster Energy or Z. Sun is viable but not common due to the high maintenance it requires, plus the ban of Walking Wake hit them pretty hard as that was the team's main anti offense tool. So, Booster sets are manageable because it's not hard to force a Bolt out and lose the boost, while Z sets lack as much instant power and thus are very manageable with good building and play. Even sun is very possible to manage by simply putting pressure on the sun team with offense, while slower teams have it tougher, can still limit it with hazards, status and chip.
so idk why ur just tryna argue to argue lol its a waste of time when people dont accept when they're wrong and just keep arguing a losing battle, respect tera flying terablast raging bolt if u should respect all sets and respect my set of z body press pls for ting lu like what i dont have to respect every set lmfao. If its not commonly used it shouldnt be brought up in the argument.
zard y isnt the only sun setter bruh im actually dead torkoal is extremely popular with raging bolt sun and it doesnt care about rocks as much as zard because of heat rock making the sun last longer than zards and im not gonna address the drop the attitude stuff but thank u cuz that made me laugh so hard lol and i also dont rlly care what u think should be respected because thats subjective also its kinda odd how u care so much about moves of pokemon like mb if i hurt encores feelings lil bro
and wym z fighting gholdengo lmfao idk which gen u were playing but i havent ever seen that in my life u should prolly justify that tho because whatevers asserted without proof may be dismissed without proof via hitchens razor and lele can run terrain extender, life orb and fighting z it isnt just choice limited whatsoever.
ONCE AGAIN WHICH FRAIL OFFENSIVE MONS LOSE TO KINGAMBIT i asked u to specify last time but u didnt maybe if i put it in all caps and bold it you will see it this time no worries ill even make it bigger.
atp ur literally arguing for the sake of arguing which is a huge waste of time so pls stop being disingenuous so we can actually progress this dialectic and have a productive conversation.
On mobile at the moment so I can’t make an argument right now (will tomorrow), but holy hell is this one of the most arrogant parts of a post I have read (and I have read CTC’s posts in the Gouging suspect test). FayaWizard and Moyashi are giving you points to counter your arguments, and you still think that they’re “arguing for the sake of arguing”. Remind me, who started this argument and who has the burden of proof? That would be you.atp ur literally arguing for the sake of arguing which is a huge waste of time so pls stop being disingenuous so we can actually progress this dialectic and have a productive conversation.
I am part of my local debate circuit and know some stuff about law, so I’d say I know what a burden of proof is. The “positive assertions” you think they’re making are rebuttals to your unsubstantiated points; I’d be happy to be proven wrong. In my eyes, honestly, you’ve stopped engaging Moyashi not because the argument was going circular, but that some of your main points were disproven.I’m not sure if you know what a burden of proof is but when they counter my claim making positive assertions the burden of proof would then fall onto them lol but Ive stopped engaging Moyashi because the argument was going circular and not progressing
I mean you can think that the main points were disproven but that’s just not the case and I wouldn’t say they’re unsubstantiated points if I provide empirical evidence for every one of them bro
Hurricane doesn't help with your mu with clod at all: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 114-135 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO.Dead by Daylight, thanks for writing the analysis for Kingdra in Nat Dex OU. As a resident Kingdra believer this analysis made me very happy, but I would have liked to have seen Hurricane as an option on it since you occasionally want to click hurricane for neutral coverage against things like Clodsire and to destroy Rillaboom on the switch in.
But otherwise, very happy.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recoveryFine then Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur. It’s not that important.
This just makes me feel sad.Torkoal is not a good pokemon. It's not even ranked on the VR and hasn't been for some time.