That's not really creative, and it's also not very optimal. What do those EVs do other than ensure that you're unable to threaten Skarmory as effectively?
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3
- Thread starter Tangerine
- Start date
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It's not supposed to be creative, just different, I suppose.
Those evs basically show how Machamp needs to be able to switch in and out efficiently between attacks. My love for the original Anti-Lead bulky champ got me thinking of a bulky spread and a Choice Band, while he is Stealth Rock and Pursuit resistant. Dynamic Punch/Thunder Punch do the same exact thing to Vaporeon/Skarmory/Suicune, as a STAB factor does the same as 2x Thunder punch, but it has more base power and can cause confusion (and a 50% chance of not being able to attack). Thunder Punch is mainly for Gyarados.
If I'm not mistaken, you can 2HKO Skarmory and other bulky waters (except Swampert) with Dynamic Punch or even just spam it and hope for some confusion hax.
Name: Led to your Doom.
Move 1: Counter
Move 2: Sucker Punch
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Overheat / Flamethrower
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Hasty
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Def
I thought of this while looking through Counter users for my new PBR team (ZeroBPWin), I was suprised to see Houndoom had no Lead set so I made one up.
This set is meant to deal with a majority of Leads stoping or stunting their success.
Froslass was one of original threats I considered when making this up; though you can't outspeed you can Taunt killing 2 birds with 1 stone, Preventing Froslass from laying down another layer of spikes or Destiny Bonding allowing you to OHKO with Sucker Punch or Overheat easily.
Crobat, with a Hasty nature and 0 Defense IVs, Brave bat Crobat will OHKO 100% of the time taking 120% bare minimun, and Counter back KOing the little bat, same applies to Staraptor leads.
Ambipom though Trickier is also beat, Jolly Fake Out (Life Orb+Technician) won't KO Houndoom which allows him to Sucker Punch twice 2HKOing the little monkey, you can't Counter since Fake Out flinches. It can Taunt + Overheat or Taunt + Counter Steelix; Taunt + Sucker Punch(2HKO) Rotom or Overheat if you're weary of Trick, Taunt + Sucker Punch a U-Turing Uxie.
More info, You want to run 0 in def IVs it will allow you to Counter a majority of leads I just listed some of the most prominent, while Taunt can prevent you opponent's Stealth Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes from being laid early in the game. Priority is always great, which is where Sucker Punch comes in. EVs put Houndoom at 279 Atk 2HKO a wide array of threats or OHKO some, while pumping the other half into Speed, and the remainder in SpA to boost Overheat's power.
Forgot to mention abilities, Early Bird is the preffered ability, though if you think you can get Houndoom in later, on a predicted Flamethrower/ Fire Blast / Overheat / Will-o-Wisp, go for Flash Fire.
You get the point. If you want calculations I can provide them. This was partly inspired by lead Arcanine, from Legacy Rider.
I'll re-edit the Speed EVs later if I recall he only needs 216.
First off, speed seems pointless since almost all the leads are faster than him anyway. Following that train of thought, Honchkrow pretty much does this set better, coming in with Insomnia and better offensive stats (though yeah, without STAB its Heatwave will be weaker but I am not seeing how that matters).
Honchkrow doesn't learn counter.
Decent set, just don't even think about it in OU. EQ and Heatran are really common, and a possible Dugtrio switchin hurts it a lot - OHKO with EQ.
In UU, this has a lot of potential (takes out all ice-types known to Pokemon Trainer among others.)
CB Typhlosion gets its assed walled by Milotic, who takes 51% maximum from Adamant Focus Punch. And you do even worse against Slowbro. I can't really think of much this actually does better against.
It can OHKO lantern with EQ, and destroys steels and ice types. It does have surprise factor in late-game, when things like slowbro and milotic are dead.
I've got this Jirachi that I've been using as a lead in Ubers, and it works quite well I've got to say.
Jirachi
Moveset Name: Uber Lead
Move 1: Stealth Rock
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Iron Head / Body Slam
Move 4: Toxic / Wish / Screen
Item: Chesto Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
The purpose of this Jirachi is to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, as well as inflicting status on problem pokemon. Obviously, Stealth Rock is in the first slot to set it up as quickly as possible. Thunder Wave is in the second slot for its ability to cripple the sweepers of the fast-paced Uber metagame. A good example would be Kyogre, who fails to OHKO with a Choice Scarf Water Spout even with a Modest nature. The set was originally designed to handle Darkrai leads, which it effectively does by absorbing sleep and then proceeding to Thunder Wave. Chesto Berry is used over Lum so that Jirachi can still paralyze Darkrai after Trick.
The other two moves on the set are left up to preference. Iron Head gives Jirachi an answer to Deoxys-E's Taunt, and allows it to potentially prevent Darkrai from firing another Dark Void once it has been paralyzed. Furthermore, Jirachi can use Iron Head's flinch effect later in the match should it be Tricked a Choice Scarf at any one time. Body Slam is still an option, though, to hit things like Taunt Mewtwo, etc, with paralysis. The final slot consists of a choice between 4 moves. Toxic lets Jirachi cripple support Groudon (whose Earthquake it survives), and also things like Lugia should the need arise. Wish can be used, albeit only for a 1 time pass most of the time. Finally, a screen is always viable, with emphasis on Light Screen for the special-based Uber metagame.
The EVs generate 404 HP / 246 Def / 319 Sp.Def. Those stats allow Jirachi to never be OHKOd by Modest Kyogre's max health Water Spout, and thus taking other special attacks with relative ease.
Jirachi
Moveset Name: Uber Lead
Move 1: Stealth Rock
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Iron Head / Body Slam
Move 4: Toxic / Wish / Screen
Item: Chesto Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
The purpose of this Jirachi is to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, as well as inflicting status on problem pokemon. Obviously, Stealth Rock is in the first slot to set it up as quickly as possible. Thunder Wave is in the second slot for its ability to cripple the sweepers of the fast-paced Uber metagame. A good example would be Kyogre, who fails to OHKO with a Choice Scarf Water Spout even with a Modest nature. The set was originally designed to handle Darkrai leads, which it effectively does by absorbing sleep and then proceeding to Thunder Wave. Chesto Berry is used over Lum so that Jirachi can still paralyze Darkrai after Trick.
The other two moves on the set are left up to preference. Iron Head gives Jirachi an answer to Deoxys-E's Taunt, and allows it to potentially prevent Darkrai from firing another Dark Void once it has been paralyzed. Furthermore, Jirachi can use Iron Head's flinch effect later in the match should it be Tricked a Choice Scarf at any one time. Body Slam is still an option, though, to hit things like Taunt Mewtwo, etc, with paralysis. The final slot consists of a choice between 4 moves. Toxic lets Jirachi cripple support Groudon (whose Earthquake it survives), and also things like Lugia should the need arise. Wish can be used, albeit only for a 1 time pass most of the time. Finally, a screen is always viable, with emphasis on Light Screen for the special-based Uber metagame.
The EVs generate 404 HP / 246 Def / 319 Sp.Def. Those stats allow Jirachi to never be OHKOd by Modest Kyogre's max health Water Spout, and thus taking other special attacks with relative ease.
I've got this Jirachi that I've been using as a lead in Ubers, and it works quite well I've got to say.
Jirachi
Moveset Name: Uber Lead
Move 1: Stealth Rock
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Iron Head
Move 4: Toxic / Wish / Screen
Item: Chesto Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
The purpose of this Jirachi is to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, as well as inflicting status on problem pokemon. Obviously, Stealth Rock is in the first slot to set it up as quickly as possible. Thunder Wave is in the second slot for its ability to cripple the sweepers of the fast-paced Uber metagame. A good example would be Kyogre, who fails to OHKO with a Choice Scarf Water Spout even with a Modest nature. The set was originally designed to handle Darkrai leads, which it effectively does by absorbing sleep and then proceeding to Thunder Wave. Chesto Berry is used over Lum so that Jirachi can still paralyze Darkrai after Trick.
The other two moves on the set are left up to preference. Iron Head gives Jirachi an answer to Deoxys-E's Taunt, and allows it to potentially prevent Darkrai from firing another Dark Void once it has been paralyzed. Furthermore, Jirachi can use Iron Head's flinch effect later in the match should it be Tricked a Choice Scarf at any one time. The final slot consists of a choice between 4 moves. Toxic lets Jirachi cripple support Groudon (whose Earthquake it survives), and also things like Lugia should the need arise. Wish can be used, albeit only for a 1 time pass most of the time. Finally, a screen is always viable, with emphasis on Light Screen for the special-based Uber metagame.
The EVs generate 404 HP / 256 Def / 309 Sp.Def. Those stats allow Jirachi to never be OHKOd by Modest Kyogre's max health Water Spout while simultaneously surviving Jolly Groudon's unboosted Earthquake.
Not half bad, I could see this working reasonably well. Although, Steel is a poor offensive type and basically gives Kyogre / Dialga free switch-ins but at least you can paralyze them (assuming they don't have Rest). Nice job though =)
I wouldn't bother running more than 40 Defense EVs (enough to survive an Adamant Rayquaza's Life Orb Earthquake assuming it hasn't Dragon Danced / Swords Danced). The remaining EVs in SpD can't hurt. You can't exactly do much back to Groudon so surviving an Earthquake from it seems rather pointless to me, you'd be better off to switch. You could also consider Body Slam > Thunder Wave since it still has a very respectable 60% paralysis rate (because of Serene Grace) and then you can paralyze Groudon on the switch-in. Also a nice way to spread paralysis around against things like Taunt Mewtwo, Mew, Deoxys-S etc. Just another thought, sucks the inability to paralyze Giratina / Giratina-O then but it's stilll an option.
You know I actually had Body Slam originally over Iron Head, just so that I could hit those threats. I just recently got back into Ubers so I'm still figuring some stuff out. I only went to Iron Head so I could potentially flinch Darkrai to death, but its still an option. I'll slash it.
Something for UU, specifically to counter Registeel.
Sableye
Moveset: FALCON PAUNCH WTF
Move 1: Focus Punch
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Shadow Claw?/[Insert attack here]
Held Item: Life Orb
Ability: Stall
EVs: 252 Attack, rest to flavor as desired
Max Attack LO Sableye vs. Max Def/Max HP Registeel (438 Def & 364 HP): 176 - 208 (48.35% - 57.14%) Chance for 2HKO: 90.53%
Yeah, that's right. Fucking SABLEYE 2HKO'ing Registeel. Stall allows you to get a Sub up, though a Wishpass would definitely help if switching into a sweeper. In any case, it's mainly for both lulz and because Sableye is one of my favorite pokemon. And of course, it rolls over and DIES to Staraptor, but so doesn't most of UU. But yeah, it's pretty damn funny to have someone switch into a Sableye only to get Falcon Punched to hell.
And of course, it could be a fantastic counterpart to a SubWishPassing Vaporeon.
Sableye
Moveset: FALCON PAUNCH WTF
Move 1: Focus Punch
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Shadow Claw?/[Insert attack here]
Held Item: Life Orb
Ability: Stall
EVs: 252 Attack, rest to flavor as desired
Max Attack LO Sableye vs. Max Def/Max HP Registeel (438 Def & 364 HP): 176 - 208 (48.35% - 57.14%) Chance for 2HKO: 90.53%
Yeah, that's right. Fucking SABLEYE 2HKO'ing Registeel. Stall allows you to get a Sub up, though a Wishpass would definitely help if switching into a sweeper. In any case, it's mainly for both lulz and because Sableye is one of my favorite pokemon. And of course, it rolls over and DIES to Staraptor, but so doesn't most of UU. But yeah, it's pretty damn funny to have someone switch into a Sableye only to get Falcon Punched to hell.
And of course, it could be a fantastic counterpart to a SubWishPassing Vaporeon.
Something for UU, specifically to counter Registeel.
Sableye
Moveset: FALCON PAUNCH WTF
Move 1: Focus Punch
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Shadow Claw?/[Insert attack here]
Held Item: Life Orb
Ability: Stall
EVs: 252 Attack, rest to flavor as desired
Max Attack LO Sableye vs. Max Def/Max HP Registeel (438 Def & 364 HP): 176 - 208 (48.35% - 57.14%) Chance for 2HKO: 90.53%
Yeah, that's right. Fucking SABLEYE 2HKO'ing Registeel. Stall allows you to get a Sub up, though a Wishpass would definitely help if switching into a sweeper. In any case, it's mainly for both lulz and because Sableye is one of my favorite pokemon. And of course, it rolls over and DIES to Staraptor, but so doesn't most of UU. But yeah, it's pretty damn funny to have someone switch into a Sableye only to get Falcon Punched to hell.
And of course, it could be a fantastic counterpart to a SubWishPassing Vaporeon.
This is actually pretty funny/cool. It's nice that you found a use for Stall. My only concern is that it's going to be very difficult to get that second Focus Punch off on Registeel. You throw up a sub on their switch to Regi, use Focus Punch as they break your sub, then try to use Sub again. So you eat another attack from Regi before sub goes in to affect. Since you've already lost 25% from your own sub, 10% from your life orb, and whatever residual damage you may have taken switching in (let's call it just Stealth Rock's 12.5%), you're already down to 52.5%. Assuming Registeel can do more than 27.5% with a single attack (which is a pretty good assumption, since he just broke your sub), you'll be hit down too low to put another Sub up. My calc's show base attack Registeel versus 252 HP Sableye, his Earthquake does 24%-28.29% (so Stone Edge would do the same, Ice Punch/Thunderpunch do a max of 21%). However, if he is packing a special move such as Thunder or Thunderbolt, it will always break the sub and has a very high chance of knocking Sableye too low to sub again. Additionally, if he is running any attack/special attack EVs, his attacks get deadlier.
Also, for your second attack, I might recommend Night Shade over Shadow Claw. The ability to get guaranteed damage against things is likely better than Shadow Claw, despite STAB, given Sableye's weak offensive power. Also I would suggest Leftovers for some additional survivability. You should still be able to 2HKO most Registeel, since most aren't 252/252+ defensive, and it stops your own Life Orb from making more than 2 subs impossible.
I'm assuming Brave, since he always attacks last anyways, so speed isn't needed. But, I really like that set, I might try it.
Something for UU, specifically to counter Registeel.
Sableye
Moveset: FALCON PAUNCH WTF
Move 1: Focus Punch
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Shadow Claw?/[Insert attack here]
Held Item: Life Orb
Ability: Stall
EVs: 252 Attack, rest to flavor as desired
Max Attack LO Sableye vs. Max Def/Max HP Registeel (438 Def & 364 HP): 176 - 208 (48.35% - 57.14%) Chance for 2HKO: 90.53%
Yeah, that's right. Fucking SABLEYE 2HKO'ing Registeel. Stall allows you to get a Sub up, though a Wishpass would definitely help if switching into a sweeper. In any case, it's mainly for both lulz and because Sableye is one of my favorite pokemon. And of course, it rolls over and DIES to Staraptor, but so doesn't most of UU. But yeah, it's pretty damn funny to have someone switch into a Sableye only to get Falcon Punched to hell.
And of course, it could be a fantastic counterpart to a SubWishPassing Vaporeon.
I'd go Suckerpunch>Shadow Claw. 1. It helps with the horrible speed issue. 2. If they want to break the Sub, they'll have to Attack you, else they get clobbered by Focus Punch for another round.
I'd go Keen Eye > Stall just so you can potenially outspeed Registeel and get the sub up to block incoming T-Waves.
Pokemon Name: Metagross
Moveset Name: Physical Defender
Move 1: Thunder Wave
Move 2: Ice Punch
Move 3: Thunder Punch
Move 4: Reflect/Light Screen.
Item: Leftovers
Ability:Clear Body
Nature(s): Relaxed
EVs: 252 Def/252 Att.
About that metagross set, thunderpunch isn't really needed since you aren't going to use it very much anyways (you still lose against Skarmory and other bulky waters). This set also needs either Meteor Mash or Bullet punch, since it utilizes one of Meta's STAB.
Also adding that some of those EVs in defense could go into HP, since Reflect/Light screen lets Metagross survive things anyways.
Also adding that some of those EVs in defense could go into HP, since Reflect/Light screen lets Metagross survive things anyways.
I remember making something like this a while ago. Counter, Taunt, Fire Blast, and Protect. This was before Sucker Punch, so I had no priority move.
Name: Led to your Doom.
Move 1: Counter
Move 2: Sucker Punch
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Overheat / Flamethrower
Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Hasty
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Def
I thought of this while looking through Counter users for my new PBR team (ZeroBPWin), I was suprised to see Houndoom had no Lead set so I made one up.
This set is meant to deal with a majority of Leads stoping or stunting their success.
Froslass was one of original threats I considered when making this up; though you can't outspeed you can Taunt killing 2 birds with 1 stone, Preventing Froslass from laying down another layer of spikes or Destiny Bonding allowing you to OHKO with Sucker Punch or Overheat easily.
Crobat, with a Hasty nature and 0 Defense IVs, Brave bat Crobat will OHKO 100% of the time taking 120% bare minimun, and Counter back KOing the little bat, same applies to Staraptor leads.
Ambipom though Trickier is also beat, Jolly Fake Out (Life Orb+Technician) won't KO Houndoom which allows him to Sucker Punch twice 2HKOing the little monkey, you can't Counter since Fake Out flinches. It can Taunt + Overheat or Taunt + Counter Steelix; Taunt + Sucker Punch(2HKO) Rotom or Overheat if you're weary of Trick, Taunt + Sucker Punch a U-Turing Uxie.
More info, You want to run 0 in def IVs it will allow you to Counter a majority of leads I just listed some of the most prominent, while Taunt can prevent you opponent's Stealth Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes from being laid early in the game. Priority is always great, which is where Sucker Punch comes in. EVs put Houndoom at 279 Atk 2HKO a wide array of threats or OHKO some, while pumping the other half into Speed, and the remainder in SpA to boost Overheat's power.
Forgot to mention abilities, Early Bird is the preffered ability, though if you think you can get Houndoom in later, on a predicted Flamethrower/ Fire Blast / Overheat / Will-o-Wisp, go for Flash Fire.
You get the point. If you want calculations I can provide them. This was partly inspired by lead Arcanine, from Legacy Rider.
I'll re-edit the Speed EVs later if I recall he only needs 216.
It worked decent in OU, getting some surprises, but I'm not sure how it would do in the OU metagame today. Really, the only reason I used it was for Azelf leads, who could only explode, while I protect. Also, I had Early Bird for all those damn sleep leads.
Speaking of OU Anti-Leads....
Typhlosion (Pic get later) @ Focus Sash
Blaze
Nature: Naive
EVs: 186 At / 72 SpAt / 252 Spe
Eruption
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Quick Attack
Acting under the guise of a scarf lead, Typhlosion erupts until its sash is broken. After which, he can start firing off Blaze Fire Blasts. If Heatran comes in to eat a fire attack, Earthquake it. The attack EVs ensure an OHKO on 4Hp/mindef Heatran. Quick Attack takes out any broken sash leads. Speed EVs will tie you with other base 100s, and the rest goes into special attack.
This thing is still walled to holy hell by Tyranitar, Blissey, Gyarados, and the dragons..... But uh, it's pretty good against Metagross leads. x.x You could put counter there if you wanted to over something.
actually i always find lower speed on machamp more optimal, as skarmory is hit much harder as it roosts. pre roost it takes 45.8-54.2%, meaning as it roosts it has a ~40% chance to be ohko'd. just my two cents
I've got this Jirachi that I've been using as a lead in Ubers, and it works quite well I've got to say.
Jirachi
Moveset Name: Uber Lead
Move 1: Stealth Rock
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Iron Head / Body Slam
Move 4: Toxic / Wish / Screen
Item: Chesto Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
The purpose of this Jirachi is to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, as well as inflicting status on problem pokemon. Obviously, Stealth Rock is in the first slot to set it up as quickly as possible. Thunder Wave is in the second slot for its ability to cripple the sweepers of the fast-paced Uber metagame. A good example would be Kyogre, who fails to OHKO with a Choice Scarf Water Spout even with a Modest nature. The set was originally designed to handle Darkrai leads, which it effectively does by absorbing sleep and then proceeding to Thunder Wave. Chesto Berry is used over Lum so that Jirachi can still paralyze Darkrai after Trick.
The other two moves on the set are left up to preference. Iron Head gives Jirachi an answer to Deoxys-E's Taunt, and allows it to potentially prevent Darkrai from firing another Dark Void once it has been paralyzed. Furthermore, Jirachi can use Iron Head's flinch effect later in the match should it be Tricked a Choice Scarf at any one time. Body Slam is still an option, though, to hit things like Taunt Mewtwo, etc, with paralysis. The final slot consists of a choice between 4 moves. Toxic lets Jirachi cripple support Groudon (whose Earthquake it survives), and also things like Lugia should the need arise. Wish can be used, albeit only for a 1 time pass most of the time. Finally, a screen is always viable, with emphasis on Light Screen for the special-based Uber metagame.
The EVs generate 404 HP / 246 Def / 319 Sp.Def. Those stats allow Jirachi to never be OHKOd by Modest Kyogre's max health Water Spout, and thus taking other special attacks with relative ease.
Specs Kyogre leads will kick your ass; Deoxys-e leads still get their job done (ie get some spikes and shizzle up), Dialga leads often have a fire attack, and Jirachi does not want to take Groudon's EQ, regardless whether it survives. And paralyzing ScarfDarkrai, has always been, imo, rather useless because it still sleeps something, which is never fun.
Basically, this does "something" as a lead, but it doesn't do enough to make up for the fact it will become dead weight/dragon attack switch in later in the game.
"Gimmick" or these "surprises" are one of the main things that make the game fun. A few that have been using to great success are:
Porygon-Z @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Return
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fighting
Mixed attacking Porygon, only I can't wait a turn to set up. This is more of a wall breaker than a sweeper. 0 HP / 252 Def Calm Blissey is dealt at least 58% from Return so even if it keeps using Protect I come out on top.
Porygon-Z @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Return
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fighting
Mixed attacking Porygon, only I can't wait a turn to set up. This is more of a wall breaker than a sweeper. 0 HP / 252 Def Calm Blissey is dealt at least 58% from Return so even if it keeps using Protect I come out on top.
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